My theory on why Apple released the Macbook

[HoiPiet]

a lot of chest-pumping about nothing.

BJ

This sounds like the people claiming that the weight difference with the MB and talk about "unnecessary ports."

Personally i'd put all the fashion talk in there and the psychological need to be modern.

 

[xPad]

I think that Apple released this Macbook because they can and loyal customers will buy it, outdated or not.

No, it's because it's extremely modern, and will create loyal customers who will buy it.

This whole, "Apple users are sheep who will buy anything" stuff is mindless drivel. All it really says is the person who makes that claim can't comprehend that there are people with different preferences than they have.

 

[thelawnetwork]

I'm not going to hate on you for sharing your opinion, but would it be fair to boil that all down to - you think most Apple customers are mindless sheep who buy inferior products at inflated prices? 😉

What I said is that given that the Apple ecosystem is a technological monopoly, Apple customers only have limited choices - and sometimes only one choice - pay or hit the highway. Thus Apple has lots of leverage to make dumping lesser products into the marketplace a very profitable venture. The iPhone 5 was very mediocre. But if you were like many iPhone 3 owners looking for a current upgrade right after the iPhone 4 was gone, the 5 was the only solution you had for a new replacement iPhone - to the tune of $800+ - even a very mediocre and aging entry.

The gaping hole in your argument is that there is literally nothing else available comparable to the retina Macbook from PC manufacturers at any price.

The gaping holes in your argument is your assumption this is true (using whatever criteria it is you're using) and the fact that the marketplace needs this product and can't find another perfectly suitable for their needs. If you're using a Mac and feel you must stay on that operating system, this may be true. As a result, Apple can set the price at the high end and squeeze out more from their customers. But if you're able to use PCs and use another OS such as Windows or Linux, you've got a myriad of choices which serve as suitable alternatives.

 

[thelawnetwork]

No, it's because it's extremely modern, and will create loyal customers who will buy it.

This whole, "Apple users are sheep who will buy anything" stuff is mindless drivel. All it really says is the person who makes that claim can't comprehend that there are people with different preferences than they have.

Mindless drivel is not listening to what is written and then writing replies like this one. I never said Apple users were mindless (even you - just this drivel. 😉 ) I said that since Apple has a monopoly on supply, it can set the prices and charge the highest end of the Apple consumer's breaking point. It has no competition. It's just smart business.

Who are you kidding about "extremely modern" - especially regarding the iPhone 5 and the iPad 16 GB editions? But if you want/need to be on the Apple system, you may have limited choices in certain circumstances. Thus putting out a lackluster iPhone 5 was your choice and it still sold at $800+. That there might be loyalists who will continue to convince themselves that what they are offered must be the best available technology and that nothing else can explain the high prices... well... that's a benefit they enjoy too. 🙂

 

[toddzrx]

I think that Apple released this Macbook because they can and loyal customers will buy it, outdated or not. It was like seeing the iPhone 5 come out as an incremental upgrade but still with a ludicrous price tag.

It's kind of a obvious to say they built it because they could, and because loyal customers will buy it. That's why a lot of products get built. Look at Ferrari or Porsche as examples. And while Apple fans tend to be loyal, I don't think they're "sheep" as they are often characterized, especially the portion of Apple fans that buy their computers.

I think the pattern and plan with the new Macbook is the same as when the Air came out a few years ago, except that the new Macbook is building on the foundation of the Air. The Air was a ballsy experiment at the time and after a few generations became a very successful product. The new Macbook is following that pattern. Granted, it's bleeding edge, and maybe a little premature in terms of power, but it's certainly usable and functional for the use cases it was designed for. Those use cases are a bit narrow now, but increasing processor power over the next year or two will allow the Macbook to expand it's appeal and take over where the Air leaves off.

 

[thelawnetwork]

It's kind of a obvious to say they built it because they could, and because loyal customers will buy it. That's why a lot of products get built. Look at Ferrari or Porsche as examples. And while Apple fans tend to be loyal, I don't think they're "sheep" as they are often characterized, especially the portion of Apple fans that buy their computers.

I hear ya about loyalty. But at no time have I ever used the word "sheep." 😉 I'm simply talking economics. Ferrari and Porsche don't seem to be a great analogy since cars can be substituted even if you have preferences. With the Apple ecosystem, you cannot simply move to a PC. To do so you must leave a sizable investment behind in proprietary hardware and software. Since a customer's cost to leave is so large, Apple recognizes that they can charge much higher prices for even the same goods. This also gives them the ability to experiment or put out marginally better releases from time to time that are just moneymakers.

I think the pattern and plan with the new Macbook is the same as when the Air came out a few years ago, except that the new Macbook is building on the foundation of the Air. The Air was a ballsy experiment at the time and after a few generations became a very successful product. The new Macbook is following that pattern. Granted, it's bleeding edge, and maybe a little premature in terms of power, but it's certainly usable and functional for the use cases it was designed for. Those use cases are a bit narrow now, but increasing processor power over the next year or two will allow the Macbook to expand it's appeal and take over where the Air leaves off.

Could be. Will be interesting to see.

 

[zhenya]

The gaping holes in your argument is your assumption this is true (using whatever criteria it is you're using) and the fact that the marketplace needs this product and can't find another perfectly suitable for their needs. If you're using a Mac and feel you must stay on that operating system, this may be true. As a result, Apple can set the price at the high end and squeeze out more from their customers. But if you're able to use PCs and use another OS such as Windows or Linux, you've got a myriad of choices which serve as suitable alternatives.

No, I meant simply what I said. There is no alternative PC laptop that is 2lbs, with 10 hours of battery life, a fantastic screen, trackpad and keyboard. I know, I own what is one of the closer alternatives in the PC land and it's really not even close. Apple built the Macbook because they could, and nobody else seems to be able to put together a cohesive product like this.

 

[tbirdparis]

I'm not really closely following this thread anymore, but I'm not sure about this thinking that somehow the rMB sneaks dated tech on people boxed in to an ecosystem they don't want to leave. There technically isn't any outdated tech inside this machine at all, apart from the built in camera being lower res than what people would have wanted. But this was almost certainly a tradeoff choice because of what they were trying to accomplish in other areas.

At the end of the day, it's obvious they decided to step aside from the "faster/moar stuff" paradigm for this machine and take a punt on a different approach. There was this interesting possibility coming around the corner with a brand new chip series that was intriguingly capable of running a full OS pretty well, while using so little power and producing so little heat that you could conceive of a laptop without a fan. There was this new type of USB format coming online that allowed for a heck of a lot to happen through one very compact port.. not just devices and gadgets but a serving of AC power that not even thunderbolt has been able to carry. Resolution-independence and "retina" displays have come of age and it was time they trickled down to the most compact tier of Apple notebooks. 802.11 AC wifi, iCloud and Air Sharing have all contributed to wireless connectivity being more mature, more reliable and ready to take on a more serious and regular role in people's day to day. The tablet, phablet and smartphone market has shown that people are becoming ever more accustomed to be able to do a lot with something very small and very portable. It's really not hard to see the pieces of the puzzle, and that Apple took a step back, looked at it all and thought hmm, what if we tried to make something that hits hard in a sweet spot that no one has really targeted yet?

Obviously they knew they weren't going to be delivering a sequel to the Air, in terms of raw CPU power at least. But surely it's clear that this wasn't the point.. for years people have been going on and on about how amazing it is that we all carry around in our phones the CPU power of what was a serious workstation of only a few generations ago. The writing has been on the wall for a long time that certain types of things people use computers for are no longer sensitive to having the very fastest bleeding-edge processor you can get. So sure, they made a machine that simply acknowledges this fact, and not just flippantly. They chose it for the very reason that going this way allowed them to offer a form factor (ultra thin), a user experience (fanless operation, a generous workspace with retina that doesn't feel cramped), competitive modern battery life - lots of "features" that you can't necessarily list in a spec sheet, and yet they are real and tangible. Meanwhile they also included top shelf components (like the flash memory storage which is drastically faster than off the shelf SSDs), which people tend to overlook when they make price comparisons.

In any case yes, there's a lot about this machine that's an experiment - Phil Schiller even came out and said so much in an interview. But - they didn't cancel a single machine from the existing lineup with this launch. So yes while you can argue that people in the Apple ecosystem have to work with what products Apple make available, their choices didn't change overnight when this machine was launched. It's just that a new kind of choice came to the market - arguably the kind of choice that might never have appeared if it were only up to PC manufacturers sticking to what we know and using off the shelf components with somewhat less risk-taking and attempts at innovation. That being said, I think it's totally true Apple do sometimes make choices that either corral their users into a certain way of working or losing them altogether. The current Mac Pro is probably a good example of this. I have no idea if it has been a success or not, but I'm sure many power users who are fiercely tied to the "expansion card and internal drive" way of doing things were pretty much shown the door with the end of the last series of Mac Pro. I don't think Apple takes this kind of "end-of-line" attitude very lightly though, and I don't think the rMB is a product that really puts people invested in using Apple products at too much risk of ruining their party. If they nuked their entire portable computer range and replaced it with only rMB-like computers, it'd be a different story... but that seems pretty far fetched I'd say.

 

[HoiPiet]

Is there some huge investment in peripherals? USB and Thunderbolt don't count do they? I guess there is that trove of things with lightning connectors. I think a lot of people get most of their software for free. If you're a professional and buy more expensive software, you lose it, but the same thing happens if you buy Microsoft products and switch to Google or Apple.

The argument about being so much more expensive is a horse that's been dead a long time. What has it been, 10 or 15 years that business groups have been evaluating the costs and determined that Apple products cost less?

 

[tbirdparis]

Is there some huge investment in peripherals? USB and Thunderbolt don't count do they? I guess there is that trove of things with lightning connectors. I think a lot of people get most of their software for free. If you're a professional and buy more expensive software, you lose it, but the same thing happens if you buy Microsoft products and switch to Google or Apple.

The argument about being so much more expensive is a horse that's been dead a long time. What has it been, 10 or 15 years that business groups have been evaluating the costs and determined that Apple products cost less?

Totally, good point re the switch being just as much of a potential PITA for anyone whether they're going to a PC or to a Mac or to anything else these days. And it's not like investment in peripherals and hardware is anything like the divided lines it was a long time ago. If you have a bunch of hard drives now and you own PCs or Macs it's not like you can't use them with any machine you want.

 

[thelawnetwork]

Is there some huge investment in peripherals? USB and Thunderbolt don't count do they? I guess there is that trove of things with lightning connectors. I think a lot of people get most of their software for free. If you're a professional and buy more expensive software, you lose it, but the same thing happens if you buy Microsoft products and switch to Google or Apple. The argument about being so much more expensive is a horse that's been dead a long time. What has it been, 10 or 15 years that business groups have been evaluating the costs and determined that Apple products cost less?

This is a fallacious argument that Mac owners love to tell themselves.

• Neither Android nor Chrome OS is a replacement for Windows, nor is it meant to be.
  • Android and Chrome software consists primarily of apps with few exceptions. Windows features ambitious applications designed to run on much more powerful processors. Microsoft makes Office for Mac and Windows. There is a reason why only a much lighter app version is available for Android at a fraction of the cost - if you need it. And if it wasn't evident, Chrome OS is designed to always be connected to the Internet. I don't know if you've ever used these devices but they couldn't be more different.
    
  • If you have an Android phone, which most already have, the apps are available for your tablets/netbooks. There is no "you lose your investment in desktop software." And if you're moving from a Mac, it means using your iPhone with a PC, which is not nearly as seamless - or replacing your iPhone with Android or Windows phone - which means replacing all your iOS software.
• Both use the same hardware, standard USB cables, USB 3 cables, etc. and typically this means power cables too. And then there is the hardware compliance as many items are designed specifically to work with Macs. And let's not forget the headphone jacks, proprietary only to Apple as well as firewire, Thunderbolt devices, etc. Windows and Android devices generally use the same connectors and USB 3 is relatively standard.
  
• Digital media and music is drag and drop. There isn't iTunes DRM involved which makes media a major pita to use on non-Apple systems. I know. I've got a couple of Apple devices and once had an iPhone while trying to use a PC desktop. Really not optimal.

You're seriously fooling yourselves even trying to think that leaving the Apple ecosystem is as easy as leaving... well... nobody I've ever met even uses a Chrome PC for their desktop. It's usually Mac or Windows (or rarely Linux) with Android for lightweight mobile functions.

Anyway... the point I've made regarding the Air and other devices Apple introduces is that they can afford to experiment and give something a try - either the Apple faithful or those looking for some upgrade will buy (as there are not many if any alternatives.) The point was illustrated that they can also put out lackluster devices during a time when they need a release but don't really have a top flight product to offer - just one that is better than the last solution. It's a good position to be in for Apple.

 

[boltjames]

Not sure I can agree with all of this, given the performance and battery life of the MBA

If they had brought out a Retina 11" MBA with the new trackpad I would of probably opted for the I7 fully loaded version over the rMB but Apple never gave us the option and forced us down the route I originally was not prepared for, but not regretting

Even now if they came out with a revamped MBA 11" I may still be tempted to change and gift my rMB to my eldest.

The Air is about to become the iPhone 5C of the Apple notebook world. The throwback that's cheap for the China market and junior high school students everywhere.

The Pro and the Retina are the two form factors Apple will move forward with.

BJ

 

[boltjames]

People don't buy older cars just to collect them. There are millions of 8 year old cars that people who buy new ones would prefer but can't afford or even obtain. I think the shiny comment is revealing. You seem obsessed with fashion and being viewed by others as a user of something special.

Not sure I get the analogy.

No matter how powerful the Air processor gets and no matter how clear the Air display gets, it's still trapped in a thick/heavy body circa 2008. That's not what consumers want in 2015. We're spoiled by the thin/sleek iPhone 6 and we're spoiled by the thin/sleek iPad Air 2 and we expect that same level of miniaturization in our notebooks now too.

If Apple wanted to keep alive the "Air" brand, they'd have just called the new Retina Macbook the "Air" and discontinued the current line. Instead, they launched a new notebook that's better than the Air at what the Air is intended to do and that's why it's going away and that's why it's going to be the iPhone 5C of the notebook world; the inexpensive go-to to compete with the freebie Chromebooks our kids are getting in junior high school.

BJ

 

[boltjames]

This sounds like the people claiming that the weight difference with the MB and talk about "unnecessary ports."

Personally i'd put all the fashion talk in there and the psychological need to be modern.

I own 2 Macbook Air's and 1 Macbook Retina and you're crazy if you can't feel the weight difference between the two. Real-world, in a backpack, moving through an airport, it's a huge difference in portability.

As for the ports, better to have 1 tiny one that you can expand only when necessary than 5 large ones you're stuck with all the time. It's like those people who put those puffy door protectors on their luxury cars. Better to live with a dent every 5 years and look bad for a few days before its repaired than to make the car look ugly with those door guards all the time.

The RMB is a travelers notebook. I don't need 3 USB ports, an Ethernet port, an SD card port, or an HDMI port when I'm on a plane or in a hotel room so why should I drag that size and that weight and that battery drain with me? Especially in a world where more of us live wirelessly anyway. External hard drives? Monitors? Keyboards? Mice? That's so 2008. That's so Macbook Air.

BJ

 

[Dayv]

Yeah? So who did that?

The poster before you, who collected several quotes from boltjames, which you seemed to be responding to. But since then the guy has doubled down on self-aggrandizing "I'm rich"-isms, so I'm done giving him the benefit of a doubt.

 

[SteveJUAE]

With the Apple ecosystem, you cannot simply move to a PC. To do so you must leave a sizable investment behind in proprietary hardware and software. Since a customer's cost to leave is so large, Apple recognizes that they can charge much higher prices for even the same goods. This also gives them the ability to experiment or put out marginally better releases from time to time that are just moneymakers.
.

Given Apple MAC's are in a unique position as a hardware platform of being able to run both OSX and/or Windows it's not strictly true to say they do not compete in the windows market. They do, but poorly for various reasons and the excellence of their hardware and styling is usually not enough for many to buy in to Apple MBA/rMB/MBP

There is minimal compromise in running Windows on a Mac and everything to gain in terms of flexibility with no loss of legacy software, peripherals and mobiles for both users of the operating systems

You have to wonder why there is not more native windows users buying into the Apple hardware other than the extra cost overhead, which could be diminished if they would offer OEM Windows with a MAC for example

If it was simply sales Apple were after I'm sure it would be promoted more.

Where Apple may take more advantage of it's loyalty base

"Given the simple premise of more sales = more revenue = lower price and greater investment/development = better for Mac owners"

may be as the choose not to compete directly means there is a premium Apple owners have to pay for and exaggeration of the belief that some Apple products are niche and over priced.

Many companies spin out so called upgrades to entice the must have the latest owners, it's not unusual, I always though Nokia was one of the worst for this with it's early success it churned out many models per year with just cosmetic changes.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The Air is about to become the iPhone 5C of the Apple notebook world. The throwback that's cheap for the China market and junior high school students everywhere.

The Pro and the Retina are the two form factors Apple will move forward with.

BJ

You maybe right but without upsizing our rMB I'm not sure how they are going to scale it up without compromising the battery, I don't want a 14" to gain more processing power it defeats the objective of a compact lightweight design for me

 

[maxsix]

After many months spending time reading over people's complaints about the new Macbook and it's underwhelming specifications, I've been trying to figure out why Apple released this product. Many people argue that there's no market for it: because of the existence of iPads, iPad minis as well as a thin, but moderately strong notebook like the Macbook Air, there'd be no need for this product.

For my current computing requirements I'm using a new 15" MBP, with my new MacBook being a perfect companion machine for those times I'm out and doing light work.

Frankly I don't care about why Apple created or built this model, I'm simply very happy they did.

But then again I _use_ my Macs. I have no time or inclination to bash Apple or complain. These are fine laptops. They're not for everyone... No model is. I put a lot of the responsibility on the buyer. If he or she is to complacent to carefully select the right model for the task at hand, they're going to have more problems than just the computer.

 

[HoiPiet]

This is a fallacious argument that Mac owners love to tell themselves.

• Neither Android nor Chrome OS is a replacement for Windows, nor is it meant to be.
  • Android and Chrome software consists primarily of apps with few exceptions. Windows features ambitious applications designed to run on much more powerful processors. Microsoft makes Office for Mac and Windows. There is a reason why only a much lighter app version is available for Android at a fraction of the cost - if you need it. And if it wasn't evident, Chrome OS is designed to always be connected to the Internet. I don't know if you've ever used these devices but they couldn't be more different.
    
  • If you have an Android phone, which most already have, the apps are available for your tablets/netbooks. There is no "you lose your investment in desktop software." And if you're moving from a Mac, it means using your iPhone with a PC, which is not nearly as seamless - or replacing your iPhone with Android or Windows phone - which means replacing all your iOS software.
• Both use the same hardware, standard USB cables, USB 3 cables, etc. and typically this means power cables too. And then there is the hardware compliance as many items are designed specifically to work with Macs. And let's not forget the headphone jacks, proprietary only to Apple as well as firewire, Thunderbolt devices, etc. Windows and Android devices generally use the same connectors and USB 3 is relatively standard.
  
• Digital media and music is drag and drop. There isn't iTunes DRM involved which makes media a major pita to use on non-Apple systems. I know. I've got a couple of Apple devices and once had an iPhone while trying to use a PC desktop. Really not optimal.

You're seriously fooling yourselves even trying to think that leaving the Apple ecosystem is as easy as leaving... well... nobody I've ever met even uses a Chrome PC for their desktop. It's usually Mac or Windows (or rarely Linux) with Android for lightweight mobile functions.

Anyway... the point I've made regarding the Air and other devices Apple introduces is that they can afford to experiment and give something a try - either the Apple faithful or those looking for some upgrade will buy (as there are not many if any alternatives.) The point was illustrated that they can also put out lackluster devices during a time when they need a release but don't really have a top flight product to offer - just one that is better than the last solution. It's a good position to be in for Apple.

It'd be entertaining to collect all the condemnations of Apple users you've made.

This is chock full of straw man arguments and odd meanders. Its too tedious to go through all of them and fruitless as well. The whole lecture about Android not being a replacement for Windows is good. There are many people, professionals, using Chromebooks. They don't have to be connected to the internet. I'm using ios and I have a chromebook. Its not hard.

Office seems like a dying franchise kept alive by people whose livelihoods depend on servicing it.

I'm not sure how to read the odd agreement with what i said about USB and Thunderbolt. Did you think that there is a different power system with Apple? I'd guess more, likely many more, people use Thunderbolt on non Apple systems than on it. Is there a printer or hard drive or keyboard that is made to a hardware compliance standard that is USB or Thunderbolt that doesn't work across platforms?

Interesting that you don't think the iPhone or the new iPad are top flight and are lackluster.

Oddly your description of Apple users reminds me of Android fanatics. The whole Windows thing has gone from irritating to comedy. I remember when the DOS crowd mocked Apple for their silly GUI. You know there's nothing you can do with it that you can't do with a command line!

 

[HoiPiet]

I own 2 Macbook Air's and 1 Macbook Retina and you're crazy if you can't feel the weight difference between the two. Real-world, in a backpack, moving through an airport, it's a huge difference in portability.


BJ

Yeah, not very convincing. And huge wouldn't even qualify as hyperbole. I also have a hard time believing that you use a backpack. I and others could come up with use scenarios for the ports. Your life is yours.

 

[boltjames]

You maybe right but without upsizing our rMB I'm not sure how they are going to scale it up without compromising the battery, I don't want a 14" to gain more processing power it defeats the objective of a compact lightweight design for me

If they choose to upsize it (they may not) then the keyboard will get a bit bigger, the chassis will get a bit bigger, and they'll put a bigger battery in there.

BJ

 

[toddzrx]

Not sure I can agree with all of this, given the performance and battery life of the MBA 🙂

If they had brought out a Retina 11" MBA with the new trackpad I would of probably opted for the I7 fully loaded version over the rMB but Apple never gave us the option and forced us down the route I originally was not prepared for, but not regretting

Even now if they came out with a revamped MBA 11" I may still be tempted to change and gift my rMB to my eldest.

The most you can probably hope for at this point is a Skylake upgrade; I doubt Apple will do much more for the Air line. And what would you expect a retina 11" MBA to be like? Had they put a retina screen in the current 11" Air with no other changes, battery life would plummet. Apple hasn't given you the option of a retina Air because the one you want can't exist at today's level of technological capability. That's why they created the rMB.

 

[boltjames]

Yeah, not very convincing. And huge wouldn't even qualify as hyperbole. I also have a hard time believing that you use a backpack. I and others could come up with use scenarios for the ports. Your life is yours.

If you don't want to take the word of someone who owns 2 Air's and 1 Retina that's fine, you can live in your imaginary world and follow the hater blogger lemmings like the rest of them. I could care less.

I am a businessman who uses a lightweight Incase Slingpack when I travel. In Manhattan, on trains, in airports, I need two hands free and as little weight as possible on my back. With the demise of Sony VAIO division, the RMB is the best slim/light notebook on the planet and that's the reason I own it.

BJ

 

[HoiPiet]

If you don't want to take the word of someone who owns 2 Air's and 1 Retina that's fine, you can live in your imaginary world and follow the hater blogger lemmings like the rest of them. I could care less.

I am a businessman who uses a lightweight Incase Slingpack when I travel. In Manhattan, on trains, in airports, I need two hands free and as little weight as possible on my back. With the demise of Sony VAIO division, the RMB is the best slim/light notebook on the planet and that's the reason I own it.

BJ

The more you post, the more I'm thinking the imaginary world is the tale you're telling.

The word "huge" has an actual meaning.

If anyone qualifies as a hater, you're there. Other than religious proclamations about the MB, you use a stream of insults.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The most you can probably hope for at this point is a Skylake upgrade; I doubt Apple will do much more for the Air line. And what would you expect a retina 11" MBA to be like? Had they put a retina screen in the current 11" Air with no other changes, battery life would plummet. Apple hasn't given you the option of a retina Air because the one you want can't exist at today's level of technological capability. That's why they created the rMB.

Would not a rMBA have the same or similar battery life of a rMB given that it has the space for a larger battery ?