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Navigon to Add Live Traffic Data as In-App Purchase for MobileNavigator

TMC vs. Bluetooth?

Not sure about this? I did a Google search on TMC and GPS, and an article on TMC I read mentioned that TomTom used bluetooth to download traffic data from an Inrix database, which is the same database they broadcast out over the FM radio Traffic Message Channel.


Ntombi said:
And, according to the press release, NAVIGON Traffic Live is "faster and more exact than TMC (Traffic Message Channel)," which is the system they use in their stand-alone units. So I'm even more firm in my statement that $25 is a bargain.
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Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)

Just got it and first short trip was very accurate. I have a 3gs.
 
I have both Navigon and TomTom and have been using Navigon more lately because of the TTS and other features it has over TomTom even though there are a couple of things I like on TomTom better.

Traffic is awesome and a $25 one time fee should be making TomTom quake in their boots since they were probably planning a yearly fee.

I have had a couple of problems with Navigon though. Their POI database is terribly lacking. For instance, here in Florida there is a chain of Grocery Stores called Sweet Bay that used to be called Kash 'N Karry. They haven't been called that for years but the POI database still calls them that. This combined with the fact that I haven't been able to find several newer restaurants makes me think that they haven't updated their database in my area for several years. I am aware of the search problems in Navigon's POI but even when I put the correct City I still can't find some newer places... I wish they would just implement Google search and scrap the POI database...

Also, I have in several instances tried to import an address from my address book and been sent to the center of the zip code. The addresses were correct and included the zip but they just didn't import correctly.

Overall, despite these hitches I would say that they have soundly beat TomTom even though I like the choice of voices, map colors, navigation options, better Maps/POIs in my area, clearer maps IMO, IQRoutes etc. on TomTom. Navigon's TTS, Traffic, iPod integration, etc. are very important features and Reality View, and Turn Assistance are just icing on the cake.
 
I think Navigon understood the iPhone game way before they pulled their stand alone units from the US market....and redirected the R & D team to the iPhone software.

Now, we're (just as much as they are) seeing the benefits of that decision with the quick and awesome updates...Tom Tom's complete fumble on every front for the iPhone has just added to Navigon's userbase....TT will likely never see the majority of those customers come back again even if they catch up or drop their prices.....

JMHO.
 
Just a quick note about the recent CoPilot Live GPS app update. They added live, real-time gas station pricing (free feature in the latest CoPilot update) and they made a fair number of changes to the GUI (most of which seem to be improvements over an already quite usable system) and they now support lots of new voices in many different languages.

They've also promised live traffic updates by the end of the month (September) -- although those will apparently be a payed, premium service. As for their map "updates," the two deficiencies that I had previously discovered are still there (one in an east coast neighborhood, the other on the west coast), so it looks like there are still some problems in their map database.

Still, for $35 (U.S.) it's a pretty good deal and something to consider if you're put off by the approximately $100 pricing for both TomTom and Navigon. Frankly, I think those prices will come down as the competition heats up and people begin to realize that a stand-alone GPS is a better deal over the prices that TomTom and Navigon are asking. One reason for that is I'm not sure that the iPhone's GPS is good enough to be used as a turn-by-turn navigator.
 
kingtj said:
Not sure about this? I did a Google search on TMC and GPS, and an article on TMC I read mentioned that TomTom used bluetooth to download traffic data from an Inrix database, which is the same database they broadcast out over the FM radio Traffic Message Channel.
Click to expand...
Yes, but, again, according to the press release:

the driver can also respond to queues en route much faster than with conventional, radio-transmitted traffic information and select a different route in good time." The Traffic Live service is available in 14 European countries1 as well as North America.


NAVIGON Traffic Live: faster and more exact than TMC (Traffic Message Channel)
The service is based on a data pool which, in addition to real-time information from traffic loops, for example, also incorporates data from NAVIGON Live users and from fleet car partners (Floating Car Data). "If figures indicate that the average speed of a given number of vehicles on a motorway, say, has fallen to the level of urban traffic, it can be assumed that there is an increased volume of traffic, and when the speed falls below a defined limit you can expect congestion. This intelligence is in the background of our Traffic Live technology, invisible to the user," explains Gerhard Mayr.


I'm guessing that the FM transmission is on a loop of some sort, and that it takes longer to get up to date. What I'm understanding is that the way it will work on the iPhone is by using the radio transmitters, but also connecting to internet databases that are updated more often. I may be reading it wrong, but that's what I get from the whole explanation.

Either way, I'm happy to get some sort of up to the minute traffic information.
 
Ntombi said:
Yes, but, again, according to the press release:

the driver can also respond to queues en route much faster than with conventional, radio-transmitted traffic information and select a different route in good time." The Traffic Live service is available in 14 European countries1 as well as North America.


NAVIGON Traffic Live: faster and more exact than TMC (Traffic Message Channel)
The service is based on a data pool which, in addition to real-time information from traffic loops, for example, also incorporates data from NAVIGON Live users and from fleet car partners (Floating Car Data). "If figures indicate that the average speed of a given number of vehicles on a motorway, say, has fallen to the level of urban traffic, it can be assumed that there is an increased volume of traffic, and when the speed falls below a defined limit you can expect congestion. This intelligence is in the background of our Traffic Live technology, invisible to the user," explains Gerhard Mayr.


I'm guessing that the FM transmission is on a loop of some sort, and that it takes longer to get up to date. What I'm understanding is that the way it will work on the iPhone is by using the radio transmitters, but also connecting to internet databases that are updated more often. I may be reading it wrong, but that's what I get from the whole explanation.

Either way, I'm happy to get some sort of up to the minute traffic information.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that servers managed by Navigon will aggregate data coming from traffic loops, Navigon live users and floating car, process it in order to obtain the more accurate view of the traffic conditions possible and then send the result to the Iphones via internet. But how ? Via push or will Navigon query the servers every minute ? Push is probably technically better, but then how will Navigon know which information is relevant for each user (it is obviously not necessary to send information about a traffic jam in Florida if the user is in New-York...) ?
 
Ntombi said:
From the press release:

The device continually takes traffic reports into account for navigation, both when planning a route and during the journey. "In this way, not only does the driver receive an up-to-the-minute route recommendation, but, because traffic reports are updated at intervals of just a few minutes, the driver can also respond to queues en route much faster than with conventional, radio-transmitted traffic information and select a different route in good time."
[snip]
NAVIGON Traffic Live users are informed immediately in such cases and are able to navigate according to the traffic situation. In the event of a traffic jam the MobileNavigator software displays a warning; in addition, Traffic Live supplies detailed information about the nature of the congestion and indicates whether or not the traffic has come to a standstill. On the basis of this information the driver can calculate a congestion-free route or else, if the obstacle is temporary or the queue is short, opt to stay on the selected route. If required, all this will also function fully automatically. "Traffic Live provides a clear overview in real time, but lets the driver decide. If the driver chooses an alternative route, the device displays the updated time of arrival and distance," says Gerhard Mayr.

Sounds like it's going to work just the way I was hoping. :D


And, according to the press release, NAVIGON Traffic Live is "faster and more exact than TMC (Traffic Message Channel)," which is the system they use in their stand-alone units. So I'm even more firm in my statement that $25 is a bargain.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that news. I loved my tomtom stand alon gps and was trying to wait for their gps. I got tired of waiting and the lack of communication from the company so i went with Navigon. I gotta say given the app itself and the updates and this coming traffic service not only did i make the right decision but I my iphone navigon app has surpassed my old Tomtom.
 
kingtj said:
Not sure about this? I did a Google search on TMC and GPS, and an article on TMC I read mentioned that TomTom used bluetooth to download traffic data from an Inrix database, which is the same database they broadcast out over the FM radio Traffic Message Channel.
Click to expand...

TMC is quite limited due to the medium. TMC information is transmitted over certain FM radio channels in an area using the same RDC technology that allows some car stereos to see the station names. The problem is, the data packet is very limited. There is a limit of "incidents" and how much detail can be reported about each one.

If you look at some of the mapping providers or even inrix's website itself, you'll see that much more data is available... its just that not all of that can be transmitted over TMC.
 
This is definitely huge. The only remaining thing for Navigon to implement (other than periodic map/data updates) would be itenerary planning, including turn by turn directions listed out for a given route and the ability to regenerate the route while avoiding certain bad streets/roads, etc.

I have been extremely pleased with Navigon but it let me down in a major way today. My wife and I were in Estes Park, Colorado and needed to get to a medical appointment in Highlands Ranch. I punched it into Navigon a couple of times to estimate my trip time and each time it insisted that I take Highway 34 East to I-25 and then take that all the way south to my destination.

Anyone familiar with the area would know that it is far, FAR shorter to simply take Highway 36 down to E-470 and over, it is literally about 10 miles shorter that way.

Like an idiot I listened to Navigon to see if it knew something I didn't and what should have been a 1:45 hour trip turned into a 2:30 hour trip as I got caught in traffic, etc, not to mention the much longer route.

Hopefully the inclusion of traffic will alleviate some of these bad routing choices but we also need the ability to generate an alternate route choice as well as exclude certain problem roads/highways from the routing choice.
 
jmpage2 said:
Anyone familiar with the area would know that it is far, FAR shorter to simply take Highway 36 down to E-470 and over, it is literally about 10 miles shorter that way.

Like an idiot I listened to Navigon to see if it knew something I didn't and what should have been a 1:45 hour trip turned into a 2:30 hour trip as I got caught in traffic, etc, not to mention the much longer route.

Hopefully the inclusion of traffic will alleviate some of these bad routing choices but we also need the ability to generate an alternate route choice as well as exclude certain problem roads/highways from the routing choice.
Click to expand...

E-470 is a toll road in parts - are you sure it wasn't set to "avoid toll roads"?
 
jmpage2 said:
This is definitely huge. The only remaining thing for Navigon to implement (other than periodic map/data updates) would be itenerary planning, including turn by turn directions listed out for a given route and the ability to regenerate the route while avoiding certain bad streets/roads, etc.

I have been extremely pleased with Navigon but it let me down in a major way today. My wife and I were in Estes Park, Colorado and needed to get to a medical appointment in Highlands Ranch. I punched it into Navigon a couple of times to estimate my trip time and each time it insisted that I take Highway 34 East to I-25 and then take that all the way south to my destination.

Anyone familiar with the area would know that it is far, FAR shorter to simply take Highway 36 down to E-470 and over, it is literally about 10 miles shorter that way.

Like an idiot I listened to Navigon to see if it knew something I didn't and what should have been a 1:45 hour trip turned into a 2:30 hour trip as I got caught in traffic, etc, not to mention the much longer route.

Hopefully the inclusion of traffic will alleviate some of these bad routing choices but we also need the ability to generate an alternate route choice as well as exclude certain problem roads/highways from the routing choice.
Click to expand...

That is actually one of the things that TomTom has an advantage in right now. Being able to say you want to avoid any road on the given route is extremely helpful. Too bad TomTom doesn't have TTS, the nice smooth predictive tracking of Navigon, and won't have traffic any time soon or I would use it.
 
I didn't read through all three pages of posts, but I contacted Itunes and asked them about in App purchases. THe purchase will be transferred to itunes through the account and you can install that on any other device that has your account, so yes in app purchases made once can transfer over to up to 5 phones with the application. Sounds good to me!
 
Tiffy said:
Yes, it sometimes happen to me (I have an Iphone 3G). It seems that, when you loose GPS signal, the software has lots of problems to recalculate your position when you are driving at high speeds (seems that 70 kph is a kind of limit...). If your speed is below 70 kph, or better if you just stop your car:D, Navigon has no problem recalculating the position.

I think the processor of the Iphone 3G is sometimes not powerful enough to handle all the calculations required by Navigon (or maybe it's a problem of slow memory allocation). Probably this problem is less frequent for 3GS users.
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FearlessFreep said:
The price point makes sense. How do you increase the reliability of your data in this model? Get more people to use it! That's exactly what this will do.

I am assuming you'll have to accept some sort of 'Terms of Service' to use the Travel Live Service, and that likely includes the app collecting and reporting data on your routes, speed, etc. Interesting to know if it's anonymous or not but some would claim there are privacy issues (of course you don't have to use it).
Click to expand...

Do a hard reboot before launching navigon. You'll find it solves this issue. It's not the app it's the crappy memory allocation on the phone.
 
DotComCTO said:
Does anyone know where Google Maps sources its traffic data from? I always thought it came from the highway road sensor data, but I don't think that information extends to all the roads that Google Maps reports on. So, there has to be a different source. I wonder whether Navigon and Google are using the same source. I'm curious because I find the Google traffic info reasonably accurate.
Click to expand...

I read that Google is now going to aggregate data from opted-in sources (i.e. cellphones) that have its Google Maps service to add traffic to other roads (such as major non-highway roads). Not sure if this has been implemented yet.
 
ddrueckhammer said:
That is actually one of the things that TomTom has an advantage in right now. Being able to say you want to avoid any road on the given route is extremely helpful. Too bad TomTom doesn't have TTS, the nice smooth predictive tracking of Navigon, and won't have traffic any time soon or I would use it.
Click to expand...

Its only a matter of time before its added to Navigon. At the current rate we will have that before christmas.
 
Interesting.

I've still not taken the plunge in the turn-by-turn GPS App stakes yet, as although Navigon seems to have more features than TomTom I'm not currently convinced that it can outperform TomTom in the UK.
 
jmpage2 said:
I have been extremely pleased with Navigon but it let me down in a major way today. My wife and I were in Estes Park, Colorado and needed to get to a medical appointment in Highlands Ranch. I punched it into Navigon a couple of times to estimate my trip time and each time it insisted that I take Highway 34 East to I-25 and then take that all the way south to my destination.

Anyone familiar with the area would know that it is far, FAR shorter to simply take Highway 36 down to E-470 and over, it is literally about 10 miles shorter that way.
Click to expand...

Under Route Profile, make sure it's set for Short and not Fastest or Optimum (whatever that means).
 
last update with street names problem

Ever since the last update for the street names, every time I enter a destination or even when I choose the "take me home" option, it keeps prompting me to turn off on every single exit. When I pass the upcoming exit it tells me to take the next one and so on. Anyone else seeing this?
 
mrjayd said:
Ever since the last update for the street names, every time I enter a destination or even when I choose the "take me home" option, it keeps prompting me to turn off on every single exit. When I pass the upcoming exit it tells me to take the next one and so on. Anyone else seeing this?
Click to expand...
Did you make sure highways are enabled
 
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