Navio Gaining Industry Momentum As Fairplay Alternative

[macFanDave]

Clearly illegal

Navio is no different than DVD Jon. What they are doing is clearly illegal (even before the DCMA) and Apple will wait until the opportune moment to bring down the hammer of righteousness!

I sense that Steve is letting Disney walk into the trap, and once Disney has made significant coin on Navio-laced products, he will pull the trigger and be able to take over Disney without spending a cent.

 

[Stridder44]

so, i'm buying this navio protected videos and songs, put them in my itunes and play them on my ipod.

then, when i buy a new ipod or itunes is updated the navio protected videos won't play anymore because apple changed the drm codes.
at least until navio releases a patch to circumvent the changes apple made.
so i will have hundreds of songs and videos that don't play mixed up with hundreds of songs that will play in my itunes library.

sounds like i'm gonna pass on that one.

Agreed! And what the hell isn't getting past Apple's DRM kind of illegal?? Did I miss something!??

 

[min_t]

Navio circumvents drm.
Movie and recording studios license the technology for their own download service.
Apples sues everyone under DMCA
Apple wins
Aaah, the sweet taste of irony.

 

[Linito]

Perfect time for apple to ditch the ipod and create a Newton with media capacities (origami killer). Lets see creative against that!

Love the ipod but don't believe it will live much longer

 

[LethalWolfe]

never said it was illigal. Unethical maybe.

A M$ type of move yes.

Well you did say that it could get them into "...more and more legal trouble..."

An MS type of move would be to threaten retailers w/increased iPod wholesale prices of the retailers refused to anything other than iPods. What Apple is doing now is no different than what video game console makers have been doing for 20 years.


Lethal

 

[dizastor]

Perfect time for apple to ditch the ipod and create a Newton with media capacities (origami killer).

ROFLMAO.

Origami Killer? That's funny.
Has Origami proven successful enough for someone to launch a competitor?

 

[Morpheus_]

/agree, this does sound illegal under the DMCA. (Yes, DMCA, not DCMA. It's the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, not the Digital Copyright Millennium Act). It is not illegal before the DMCA - reverse engineering is legal as long as it is done properly (wikipedia: clean room design). However, the DMCA would seem to make reverse-engineering DRM illegal.

However, if you read the the relevant US law code for this, you'll note that it primarily deals with circumvention. It is likely possible to reverse engineer Fairplay while not breaking the DMCA, although clearly it is a fine line. However, Apple could only "blow the whistle" on Navio, not sue them, because Navio would have to be investigated and charged by the US Department of Justice. However, Navio could be sued for patent infringement if Apple has any patents on any part of the Fairplay DRM.

Either way, Navio is certainly balancing on a fine line between Apple and the US Govt. More than likely there will be litigation on one side or the other in the not-too-distant future.

Disclaimer: IANAL, but I play one on the Internet.

 

[Mr Skills]

Well in terms of the iTunes business this might not be great for Apple, but in terms of the iPod business it's great - if this becomes the accepted alternative to FairPlay it will all but kill competition from WMA. And since iTunes is almost a loss leader for iPod anyway, I'd rate this a big positive.

It's interesting that Disney are involved with them... could there be some tacit aproval from Mr Jobs in here somewhere?

 

[dongmin]

ROFLMAO.

Origami Killer? That's funny.
Has Origami proven successful enough for someone to launch a competitor?

Haven't you heard? Origami is the Next Big Thing. Just like tablet PCs. And subscription-based music services.

 

[portent]

My biggest worry is that Apple is missing an opportunity here. Not every company wants to sell their content as a download on the iTunes Music Store.

What if a company wants to distribute an iPod-compatible movie on CD or DVD? Or give it away free, but restrict copying?

This other company feels that there's an untapped market there.

I thought reverse engineering a company's intellectual property was illegal

Nope. It does, sometimes, violate the "user agreement" of certain products, but there is no law preventing reverse engineering, except in the specific case of patented products. [EDIT: And for the purposes of duplicating copy-protected work]

Navio is no different than DVD Jon. What they are doing is clearly illegal (even before the DCMA) and Apple will wait until the opportune moment to bring down the hammer of righteousness!

DVD Jon was trying to "break into" copyrighted material. These people are trying to "protect" copyrighted material.

 

[zzal]

Navio is an Apple creature, in response to France's attack

But, sorry, you can't hear that. You already know too much. . .
Pif!

 

[dr_lha]

All this bullsh1t about reverse engineering Fairplay and the like, there's a really easy way for companies to sell stuff for the iPod and many other digital devices that wouldn't involve a potential to both (a) be prosecuted under the DRM and (b) enter into lengthy legal battle with Apple. What is this "other way" you might ask?

Simple: Sell stuff without DRM. It will work on everything.

It won't increase copying of stuff, everything you'd possibly want to download unprotected is already out there and easy to get. DRM doesn't stop anything other than normal people being able to access the music/movies/tv shows they've legally bought.

Note: I've bought much stuff from the iTunes Music Store, so I'm not a big anti-DRM zealot. I just think if companies ditched the DRM, they'd realise that it was the easiest way to break the back of the iTMS and Apple's stranglehold on digital music sales.

 

[cgc]

Agreed! And what the hell isn't getting past Apple's DRM kind of illegal?? Did I miss something!??

Give Apple a couple days to form the lawyers into a mob and storm Navio's HQ.

 

[scotto07]

Because everyone hates Real.

True, True

 

[reyesmac]

As long as Apple tries to go it alone and keep all the profits they will always be copied and overpowered. People get rich (or try to) using Microsoft technologies because Microsoft licenses them out. Microsoft wins if they win or lose. Apple does not license anything. What incentive is there for other companies to help promote Apples products if they cant make some money while doing it.
Being the dominant player in the digital media market is something they can lose if they are too closed minded. They should have made a way of selling companies the ability to have iTunes-like stores for themselves, based on Apple technology. A program like the kinds of enterprise programs MS has. Once something is as popular as the ITMS it is only a matter of time before someone else finds a way to make money off of it and now Apple cant benefit from it as much as it could if it would have licensed the technology themselves.

 

[AidenShaw]

Hyperbole again...

Because everyone hates Real.

What a bunch of crap.

Only the people who've used Real products hate Real!

 

[ncook06]

I gave this a positive because it seems like it will push Apple to be better about updates. Also, price wars are never bad for the consumer

 

[1984]

I gave this a positive because it seems like it will push Apple to be better about updates. Also, price wars are never bad for the consumer

It's bad for consumers when the studios control the whole process from creation to distribution. Apple has already been fighting the studios tooth and nail in order to keep prices at 99 cents. If studios get complete control it won't simply be Apple that is cut out of the loop. Everyone will be cut out. Then there will be no competition at all.

 

[Stridder44]

What a bunch of crap.

Only the people who've used Real products hate Real!

/Obligatory

 

[octoberdeath]

It's bad for consumers when the studios control the whole process from creation to distribution. Apple has already been fighting the studios tooth and nail in order to keep prices at 99 cents. If studios get complete control it won't simply be Apple that is cut out of the loop. Everyone will be cut out. Then there will be no competition at all.

price isn't the only thing studios would control. they would also sell a lesser quality product for cheap, while selling a higher quality product for a premium. so people will see the price and get the lesser version and not even realize it. apple has done a great job, just like everything else, keeping a standard of quality at a great price.

 

[Lollypop]

I agree that apple should open the itms up a little bit, who knows, the movie studios might bite then, they might not be against selling digital versions of their movies, they might just be against selling it from a certain point owned and controlled by only one company.

Apple could allow itms "partner companies" to negotiate deals with movie studios and international recording companies and bring the whole bunch to a central apple controlled storefront, that way everyone wins, if the pricing structure fails that "partner company" wont sell anything, the movie studio wont sell and apple will stil have had a library that looks impressive and interates well with itunes and the ipod and have it all legal. If the partner company does a good job at negitiating quality and price of content they win, the studios win and apple wins. Take a clue from MS someday apple!

 

[solvs]

It may be bad for Apple in the long run

Why would it? Apple doesn't sell a whole lot of movies (1 last I checked), but this could help them sell even more iPods if it works. Even if they did start selling more movies, they can point to this as competition if anyone starts screaming monopoly (which it isn't any more than video games for consoles, and duh, you don't have to buy iTunes to use your iPod, and vice-versa). They could even license it to them officially for a small fee and claim they don't support it if it doesn't work.

I hated the Real thing because of the way they went about it and because, as V said, Real sux.

 

[Evangelion]

Am I the only one thinking that the competition of the movie studios/record companies opening their own ipod compatible stores could end up being bad.

Why negotiate down to a fair price on iTunes when you can sell it yourself for a stupid amount?

What makes you think it couldn't be vice-versa? What if you want to sell your stuff for cheap to iPods out there, but iTunes charges loads of money for the privilege? It could happen

 

[barstard]

What a bunch of crap.

Only the people who've used Real products hate Real!

Lol! I needed that. Nothing like a read of MacRumors to make me get over my day at work.

Seriously though, this could definitely go either way. If this takes off, Apple will struggle in any future movie store. Apple really needs to license their Fairplay technology to a couple of other companies, because they get license money AND could still stipulate iPod only movies (Any computer of course, but ipod for devices, it could still be a seller for the ipod).

barstard.

 

[bigandy]

it's only just coming up to 10am here, but this thread has really made me wake up. by making me laugh so much at that realnetworks "buffering" picture that i slipped off my chair and hit my head on the filing cabinet next to me.