Its a good thing, i hope Apple doesn't stop it with an iPod update. iTunes won't be carrying all digital content available on the internet, its nice when do when the iPod/iTunes can play all digital content available on the internet.
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Navio Gaining Industry Momentum As Fairplay Alternative
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Apple is a hardware company 
Apple has said many times that it is a hardware company and that iTunes and ITMS were only to drive iPod sales. Apple was not even worried about making lots of money off of ITMS , so long as they sold the players.
I know Apple has never licensed Fairplay, but I am not sure they will be opposed to Navio. If you can buy content from 20 different places, all working only on the iPod, that might not be a bad thing for Apple.
I think Apple would be alot more worried if someone reverse engineered a device that played Fairplay DRM protected content. That would be bad. From what I get out of this, this is not the case.
Apple has said many times that it is a hardware company and that iTunes and ITMS were only to drive iPod sales. Apple was not even worried about making lots of money off of ITMS , so long as they sold the players.
I know Apple has never licensed Fairplay, but I am not sure they will be opposed to Navio. If you can buy content from 20 different places, all working only on the iPod, that might not be a bad thing for Apple.
I think Apple would be alot more worried if someone reverse engineered a device that played Fairplay DRM protected content. That would be bad. From what I get out of this, this is not the case.
bigandy said:it's only just coming up to 10am here, but this thread has really made me wake up. by making me laugh so much at that realnetworks "buffering" picture that i slipped off my chair and hit my head on the filing cabinet next to me.
Just doin our job sir
I'm not sure if this solution will work unless Apple effectively allows it to be used else. However, I am very much in favor of the principal that I should be able to buy my media from whomever I want to and access it however I want to. As much as I like Apple, I am not a fan of the "thou shalt use iTMS, iTunes and iPod" position. I'd very much like to be able to buy from any music store and playback the music through any software/hardware player of my choice. At the moment I do buy music and videos (well, a couple of the Pixar ones since there's no television outside of the US yet...*hint* *hint*) via the iTMS but I am immensely aware that I cannot play this music back using anything other than iTunes and an iPod, or using an AirPort Express. Nice options and all but given the gammut of devices and potential devices for playback/management, this is terribly restrictive. While I still prefer iTunes to other software applications I am acutely aware that should Apple manage to drop the ball in the future then I won't be able to use an alternative player. Given that I've bought the music and, therefore, technically own the music, I do think it kinda sucks that I don't have the luxury of being able to decide how I should enjoy it. I'm not trying to do anything illegal with the music bought but yet I feel almost like I am being treated like a criminal by being completely locked-in to Apple's products.
kresh said:
Well where does OS X, iLife and all the pro apps come into the hardware picture? Currently apple can pressure the music industry into keeping the prices low, with each movie studio being able to sell from their own store they controll price, thats not good!
Morpheus_ said:agree, this does sound illegal under the DMCA. (Yes, DMCA, not DCMA. It's the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, not the Digital Copyright Millennium Act).
DCMA might be a more descriptive arrangement of the acronym. It looks like copyright is well on the way to being extended to a millennium or so.
the deal is not to do anything to Fairplay. The idea is to have an independent DRM system so the files themselves don't really care where they are. So you could buy a song and play it on an iPod, or a Zen, or your computer, or your phone, etc.
so instead of itunes + ipod = vendor lock in, it is music + your stuff = happy customer.
so instead of itunes + ipod = vendor lock in, it is music + your stuff = happy customer.
DRM and Podcasting?
It seems like Apple has already set up a mechanism for folks to buy content through iTunes by the Podcasting interface. It can already load video (I get MacTV that way). If people used Navio's engine, couldn't they then get DRM'd content through a Podcast channel?
Wouldn't that allow Apple to maintain their user experience, allow independent suppliers to sell DRM'd content, and continue to boost iPod sales?
I don't think that Navio is bad for Apple; I think that Apple needs to open up the Podcasting model to position themselves to allow indies to use their channel with DRM to meet everyone's needs. And iPod sales will continue to soar!
It seems like Apple has already set up a mechanism for folks to buy content through iTunes by the Podcasting interface. It can already load video (I get MacTV that way). If people used Navio's engine, couldn't they then get DRM'd content through a Podcast channel?
Wouldn't that allow Apple to maintain their user experience, allow independent suppliers to sell DRM'd content, and continue to boost iPod sales?
I don't think that Navio is bad for Apple; I think that Apple needs to open up the Podcasting model to position themselves to allow indies to use their channel with DRM to meet everyone's needs. And iPod sales will continue to soar!
Pass on iPod
Some will choose to pass on the iPod. I know I am not happy as to all of the difficulty I have in playing my music from my iPod on my different computers. Because of the low quality of the music on the iTunes Music Store or any of the other online music stores I only have music downloaded from my CD collection on my iPod. All of this trouble just makes me wonder why I purchased an iPod in the first place.
The many recording studios know that it is not in their best interest to have only one supplier. They still want to support Apples version since it is the largest. They just want & need more than one source for their sales.
andiwm2003 said:
Some will choose to pass on the iPod. I know I am not happy as to all of the difficulty I have in playing my music from my iPod on my different computers. Because of the low quality of the music on the iTunes Music Store or any of the other online music stores I only have music downloaded from my CD collection on my iPod. All of this trouble just makes me wonder why I purchased an iPod in the first place.
The many recording studios know that it is not in their best interest to have only one supplier. They still want to support Apples version since it is the largest. They just want & need more than one source for their sales.
They sell Macs. Apple's profit margins reside in selling hardware, not software.Lollypop said:
Lethal
Apple has to tread a fine line here. If they prevent Navio from developing this the Media companies might just switch to the Windows DRM and sell stuff under WMP 11. I think that that is one of the reasons that Apple has yet to address this.
I think though it will hurt apple a little in that it won't be participating in the sales. But then again once Navio develops the DRM whose to say that Apple might just buy them.
Navio does have one big hurdle as mentioned what if apple, rather than sueing just comes out with a newer ipod video with a new fresher DRM? Then the must have device won't be compatable with Navio. Also I think that you need to download something from Navio... at least that is what it looks like on their site.
Also look at Navio's model of "future-proof" yeah its very consummer friendly but companies want to charge you for every version possible not allow you to buy a DVD then trade it in 2 years later for the Blu Ray version. This is seen in DVD rot. Built into every DVD is a life expectancy of 10 years, after that point the DVD will start to deteriorate. This is to force consummers to upgrade. I hardly see this going anyware.
I think though it will hurt apple a little in that it won't be participating in the sales. But then again once Navio develops the DRM whose to say that Apple might just buy them.
Navio does have one big hurdle as mentioned what if apple, rather than sueing just comes out with a newer ipod video with a new fresher DRM? Then the must have device won't be compatable with Navio. Also I think that you need to download something from Navio... at least that is what it looks like on their site.
Also look at Navio's model of "future-proof" yeah its very consummer friendly but companies want to charge you for every version possible not allow you to buy a DVD then trade it in 2 years later for the Blu Ray version. This is seen in DVD rot. Built into every DVD is a life expectancy of 10 years, after that point the DVD will start to deteriorate. This is to force consummers to upgrade. I hardly see this going anyware.
orbital said:
Isn't it strange that we hear about Navio a few days after Microsoft announced WMP11? And isn't it also strange that Navio are located a few km from Apple?
In any case, anything that further prevents the spread of Windows Media is a good thing.
amac4me said:
My impression is that music industry takes the major part of the $0.99 of each song. Therefore, neither Disney nor Apple have any control over the price (they could change it by a few cents, but not more). Therefore, the better service will make the race. If Disney comes up with a music store that provides songs for all MP3 players, including the iPod, AND a nice user interface for that store, then they are able take it up with Apple.
Ultimately, this matters little either way....
What it boils down to, really, is Apple creating a proprietary model for using music with their own devices - and jealous competitors wanting to force their music onto Apple's player rather than try to compete with their own hardware/software combo.
This is going to be no more sensible or doable than, say, starting a competing satellite TV business that puts up its own satellites but instructs you to "re-aim your existing Dish Network dish" and reuse their receiver equipment, rather then selling you another receiver and dish. Someone could, of course, do such a thing, with enough effort. But Dish wouldn't care for it, and obviously would release new hardware that circumvents their efforts whenever possible.
Of course, the option has *always* been there to sell music with no DRM on it at all, and then iPods will play it just fine. But the recording industry still isn't ready to accept that business model. Extremely silly, IMHO - because I buy my 99 cent tracks for the sake of "instant gratification" and "convenience" ... Wouldn't change a bit, DRM or not. It's simply more than 99 cents worth of hassle to go find someone else who bought the same song you want and to get them to give you a copy of theirs!
What it boils down to, really, is Apple creating a proprietary model for using music with their own devices - and jealous competitors wanting to force their music onto Apple's player rather than try to compete with their own hardware/software combo.
This is going to be no more sensible or doable than, say, starting a competing satellite TV business that puts up its own satellites but instructs you to "re-aim your existing Dish Network dish" and reuse their receiver equipment, rather then selling you another receiver and dish. Someone could, of course, do such a thing, with enough effort. But Dish wouldn't care for it, and obviously would release new hardware that circumvents their efforts whenever possible.
Of course, the option has *always* been there to sell music with no DRM on it at all, and then iPods will play it just fine. But the recording industry still isn't ready to accept that business model. Extremely silly, IMHO - because I buy my 99 cent tracks for the sake of "instant gratification" and "convenience" ... Wouldn't change a bit, DRM or not. It's simply more than 99 cents worth of hassle to go find someone else who bought the same song you want and to get them to give you a copy of theirs!
VanNess said: