NBC Disputes Apple's Pricing Claims

[inkswamp]

NBC should change their initials to CYA.

No doubt, they also wanted more flexibility in the pricing, but I think Apple's main gripe is that this "flexibility" wasn't intended to benefit the customers, but rather bump the prices up on popular programming. We've heard this before, when the music industry wanted to do the same. I don't think Apple's pricing structure is perfect, but I sure like the keep-it-simple approach.

FWIW, I think the increase in price on shows was NOT intended to rake in more cash for NBC, but rather to drive more viewers back to broadcast TV where NBC's real cash cow is--advertising. Just like the music industry, TV broadcasters are going to see some real upheaval in their business model. It looks to me like NBC is having a knee-jerk response. Instead of getting creative about how to profit from iTunes sales, they want to pull the rug out from under it and drive people back to regular TV where they make an obscene amount of cash from ridiculously inflated advertising prices--something they cannot duplicate on iTunes because of a smaller viewer demographic. (Anyone know if this Hulu.com will include ad breaks? I'm betting it does.)

As for their other point, it's almost a non sequitur. NBC says they are concerned about piracy, and yet they take away the single most popular option out there for people who want to pay for legit downloads. What kind of sense does that make? What other options are out there for those people now?

 

[clevin]

Apple should stop making deceptive and misleading ads or statements ASAP. it will backfire eventually.

 

[motulist]

NBC will survive without iTunes.

However, iTunes needs content.

I'm afraid you're right - Apple's edge as a distributor (with their ipod lock-in and user interface) has always been precarious. At the end of the day content providers can easily use other distribution channels. People will go other places to get the shows they want to see...

It will be interesting to see how hulu.com is compatible with the ipod (or not...)

I totally disagree. People will NOT go to other places to get the shows they want to see.

You forget why the iPod was a success in the first place. It didn't have the most features, it wasn't the most compatible, it wasn't even available to people using the dominant OS (MS Windows) at the beginning. The iPod was a smash hit because It Just Worked. The vast majority of people will NOT be willing to go to 6 different studio's websites to get the various content they want to download, which come in 6 different formats, which are locked with non-Fairplay DRM and thus totally unplayable on their iPod.

And as far as your question about hulu's DRM, the DRM on media from non-iTunes sources literally can not work with the iPod without Apple licensing the iPod's Fairplay DRM to another company, and that's not gonna happen without a long gigantic legal battle.

 

[clevin]

I totally disagree. People will NOT go to other places to get the shows they want to see.

You forget why the iPod was a success in the first place.

lol, customers always go for lower price, not "branded store name". don't confuse simply market rules with brand loyalty.

also, keep in mind iPOD is primarily a music player, its success are mostly a music store success, video market is not that simple.

 

[motulist]

lol, customers always go for lower price, not "branded store name". don't confuse simply market rules with brand loyalty.

also, keep in mind iPOD is primarily a music player, its success are mostly a music store success, video market is not that simple.

I have no clue how you interpreted what I wrote in the way that you did. I said zero about brand loyalty. I said people use the iPod and iTunes because it is easy to learn and simple to use. I said people will not use the alternatives because it will not work with the device they already use (iPod) and the other companies download services are almost universally less easy and convenient to learn and use.

 

[luminosity]

Question: How likely is it that NBC's programming will yanked from iTunes sometime this week? I need to grab some stuff (like BSG), but I'm about to do a reinstall of Tiger, and want to wait until I do that before I download anything.

 

[clevin]

I said people will not use the alternatives because it will not work with the device they already use (iPod) and the other companies download services are almost universally less easy and convenient to learn and use.

oh my apology, thats a very valid point, only way to speculate the anwser to your question is
1. understand the market influence of "video" iPOD, how much market share?
2. make sure if NBC will sell their shows in a format that can not be played on an video iPOD.

I don't have answer to any of these questions, do you have any information?

Question: How likely is it that NBC's programming will yanked from iTunes sometime this week? I need to grab some stuff (like BSG), but I'm about to do a reinstall of Tiger, and want to wait until I do that before I download anything.

there is a contract until Dec. of this year.

 

[gusapple]

It seems that everything affiliated with the name Universal hates Apple, no matter who owns the company. Strange.....

 

[motulist]

oh my apology, thats a very valid point, only way to speculate the anwser to your question is
1. understand the market influence of "video" iPOD, how much market share?

iPods have over 80% of the portable media player market (iirc), and that looks unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

2. make sure if NBC will sell their shows in a format that can not be played on an video iPOD.

It's basically a certainty that any video download service that NBC offers their shows through will either be DRMed (and thus unplayable on iPods) and/or have regular commercial breaks in the video file.

And even if the video files were offered by the studios without DRM, and without commercials and in a file format compatible with the iPod, the user will still have to search around to find the content they want scattered across all the different studio's different websites and download systems in order to find the content they want, and still then have to manually load the collected video files into iTunes and then load them onto their iPods.

In other words, it ain't gonna happen. The whole reason why the iPod and iTunes is a smash hit is because they make consuming media simple and easy.

 

[clevin]

iPods have over 80% of the portable media player market (iirc), and that looks unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

I guess you deliberately ignore my word of "video" ipod, 80% is total iPod market share(I think its 70%, I would like to see your source of that 80% please), but are you expecting any iPod nano/mini/shuffle users to play any videos?

EDIT: you remind me, we should not narrowing this video store thing on VIDEO iPOD neither, Im sure there are many people out there (maybe even majority) just want to watch shows on their computer.

second point. let me remind you, NBC has enough resource letting people know they can buy videos from "HULU.com", don't worry that part.

DRM, thats a valid question, and we shall see.

I guess you don't have answers for any of the question I listed. I sure can see you have many biased guess tho.

 

[Westside guy]

So NBC wants them to prevent pirated NBC content from being playable on iPods? How do they propose that they do that? If I bought a DVD set of an NBC TV show and rip it to be able to play it on my iPod, how can the iPod distinguish that (a legal, not pirated show) from an NBC TV show that I downloaded (an illegal, pirated show)?

Dude, where have you been for the past, say, five years?

You cannot legally rip a DVD to play it on your iPod (I'm not saying it's morally wrong - of course morally it's fine). I have no doubt that, in the context of the current discussion, NBC considers your rip from a legally-purchased DVD to be just as "pirated" as if you grabbed it off Pirate Bay, Kazaa, etc.

This is just another round of the losing battle the old-media dinosaurs insist on continuing to fight - they're still trying to stuff the genie back into the bottle.

 

[synth3tik]

I doubt that Apple is just making this crap up.

And if they statment was true why would they also say "We are starting up a new service". I think Hulu will fail.

By wanting to charge twice as much for their shows MBC is promoting piracy.

lol, customers always go for lower price, not "branded store name". don't confuse simply market rules with brand loyalty.

also, keep in mind iPOD is primarily a music player, its success are mostly a music store success, video market is not that simple.

That is true, but NBC has left me with a bunch of unfinished shows, shows that I was waiting to see new seasons. Since they have done this I will not five them another dime, If it can between iTMS and some other site I would still pick iTunes, although I think NBC has lost me as a consumer totally.

 

[clevin]

I doubt that Apple is just making this crap up.
By wanting to charge twice as much for their shows MBC is promoting piracy.

basically, its whom you want to trust, obviously you selected apple, I don't, since I don't think NBC is that stupid to sell their show for $4.99 when all other networks sell shows at $1.99. GE didn't grow big by being stupid.

want to test who is right? wait for NBCU's hulu.com, see how muh they charge per episode.

 

[Goldenbear]

lol, customers always go for lower price, not "branded store name". don't confuse simply market rules with brand loyalty.

also, keep in mind iPOD is primarily a music player, its success are mostly a music store success, video market is not that simple.

So just how did the iPod become so dominant, when there were/are many other players that are cheaper and have more features?

 

[gusapple]

I doubt that Apple is just making this crap up.

And if they statment was true why would they also say "We are starting up a new service". I think Hulu will fail.

By wanting to charge twice as much for their shows MBC is promoting piracy.



That is true, but NBC has left me with a bunch of unfinished shows, shows that I was waiting to see new seasons. Since they have done this I will not five them another dime, If it can between iTMS and some other site I would still pick iTunes, although I think NBC has lost me as a consumer totally.

I think that both sides probably have credibility to what they are saying. Maybe NBC said that they wanted to have their 30 minute shows sell for $1.99 while their hour longs shows sell for $3.99? Just thinking aloud.

 

[PVguy]

What is this "broadcast" of which you speak?

"but rather to drive more viewers back to broadcast TV where NBC's real cash cow is--advertising."

The air waves around here went dark Jan 1, 2004. The only station still up was channel 39, run by an evangelical church. We went ahead and got a satellite dish (there is no cable either) but we haven't watched NBC or ABC or CBS or Fox in 3 years. Since they turned off the translator stations, and have not built a new transmitter that can reach us, we can't. So phooey on them, as they obviously do not want us to watch either their content or their advertisers.

Their stuff must be fit for "big city" eyes only.

 

[synth3tik]

basically, its whom you want to trust, obviously you selected apple, I don't, since I don't think NBC is that stupid to sell their show for $4.99 when all other networks sell shows at $1.99. GE didn't grow big by being stupid.

want to test who is right? wait for NBCU's hulu.com, see how muh they charge per episode.

Remember though that that is their own service and if they charge $1.99 that would give them the same amount they wanted Apple to give. I selected Apple because I KNOW better then to trust networks. I think this whole thing was just an ecuse to roll out hulu, which will suck.

 

[clevin]

So just how did the iPod become so dominant, when there were/are many other players that are cheaper and have more features?

wow. let me think, of course I can argue with your point, but

are you saying
for same movie, lets say "LotR-1.avi" people would rather pay$15 at ITMS, rather than pay $10 at a different store?

There are alot of difference between iPOd and other music player, but there is LITTLE difference between a movie you buy from two stores when they are actually SAME movie.

Remember though that that is their own service and if they charge $1.99 that would give them the same amount they wanted Apple to give.

I understand, but for an end-user customer, should I care? its business, and good for NBC as well as for end-users.

I read too much misleading statements from apple, I felt offended by that, I don't like being fed misleading informations.

 

[spydr]

I hope NBC manages to retain their sore loser trophy they get in the primetime TV rankings every year.

Now I rank them at par with the "brainwashers" at FOX.

Good luck with your Hulu on Zune announcement - you will be greeted with a deafening silence.

 

[Jaqen]

Who cares? Just go to a torrent site and download your favorite episodes a few hours after it airs. In some cases, you can get it before it airs due to some shows airing in places like Canada a day earlier! And when the season is over, you can just grab the whole season in one go. Buying data from itunes is such a ripoff and always will be until DRM dies. There are far too many issues with paying to buy digital music/movies/tv shows for me to take the dive.

I don't know which side of this quarrel we should be angry at, I like both Apple and NBC. NBC has my favorite shows by far.

 

[motulist]

I guess you deliberately ignore my word of "video" ipod, 80% is total iPod market share(I think its 70%, I would like to see your source of that 80% please), but are you expecting any iPod nano/mini/shuffle users to play any videos?

EDIT: you remind me, we should not narrowing this video store thing on VIDEO iPOD neither, Im sure there are many people out there (maybe even majority) just want to watch shows on their computer.

second point. let me remind you, NBC has enough resource letting people know they can buy videos from "HULU.com", don't worry that part.

DRM, thats a valid question, and we shall see.

I guess you don't have answers for any of the question I listed. I sure can see you have many biased guess tho.

No, I didn't deliberately ignore that word, it's just logic dictates that it need not be mentioned. Just think it through, there's no way that the portable video player market isn't a huge majority of iPods.

Second point, I never said anything about people not knowing that hulu existed. Playforsure was around too, and they blitz the media, and no one cared, it was a huge flop. My point is people aren't going to go to serveral DIFFERENT places to track down all the different shows they want to watch that are made by different studios. Itunes store is a success because all the different shows from all the different studios are all found in the place, in iTunes.

Someone else made this great analogy recently. iTunes is like a supermarket, in one store you find foods made by all the different manufactures by GM, Kraft, Mars. If people could only buy kraft foods at a separate kraft store that only sold kraft-manufactured products, no one would go there. They'd shop wherever offered one easy convenient place that offers them a good variety of foods that they want.

And then you personal insult me with an ad hominem attack, but you're totally backwards. None of my arguments are biased guesses, they are all well reasoned speculation about future events. YOU are the one who is arguing without backing up any of your ideas with solid reasoning. Which is why I am (probably) not going to be responding to anything else you have to say in this thread.

 

[synth3tik]

[/QUOTE]
I understand, but for an end-user customer, should I care? its business, and good for NBC as well as for end-users.

I read too much misleading statements from apple, I felt offended by that, I don't like being fed misleading informations.[/QUOTE]

This end user will care. The really really nice thing about the iTMS is the lack of ads, you know that this other site will be full of ads, and who said NBC could even pull this off. I don't see them doing it in a way that is constructive for the consumer. If I was the producer of a show (Now that would be cool) and I heard that the network airing my show was to get more money from the costomer (whether through iTMS or hulu) I would expect the money I get to also go up, but I really don't see NBC doing that.

 

[Westside guy]

Someone else made this great analogy recently. iTunes is like a supermarket, in one store you find foods made by all the different manufactures by GM, Kraft, Mars. If people could only buy kraft foods at a separate kraft store that only sold kraft-manufactured products, no one would go there. They'd shop wherever offered one easy convenient place that offers them a good variety of foods that they want.

You're ignoring the giant disconnect in the center of these sorts of disputes. While it's true these media companies are like Kraft or Nabisco, they each think they're William Sonoma.

 

[synth3tik]

Who cares? Just go to a torrent site and download your favorite episodes a few hours after it airs. In some cases, you can get it before it airs due to some shows airing in places like Canada a day earlier! And when the season is over, you can just grab the whole season in one go. Buying data from itunes is such a ripoff and always will be until DRM dies. There are far too many issues with paying to buy digital music/movies/tv shows for me to take the dive.

I don't know which side of this quarrel we should be angry at, I like both Apple and NBC. NBC has my favorite shows by far.

That was my first thought, but I don't really want to wait until the whole season is complete to get a decemt quality download, and therfor end up giving them money. NBC is only promoting piracy IMO

 

[jabu31]

I Knew It!!!!

See i just knew that NBC might start their own website to sell their shows for $5 a pop. To hell with them i never watched any of their shows. besides now If i were interested in any show offered on the network i would not buy a episode for $5. Especially when i can simply Tivo it and watch it again for free!

To hell with NBC and their capitalist extortion scheme!