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Will Hulu require a paid subscription, or will it offer free on-demand episodes much like ABC offers on their website?

...I've long thought it silly that ABC offers free, full-length episodes online, while also trying to sell the same content through iTunes. ...The choice seems obvious to me.


And quite honestly, I'm a little happy at this news. I never liked the direction the iTunes Store was heading with their TV and movie sales.

The choice may be obvious while you are sitting in front of a computer connected to the Internet. What happens if you want to watch this streamed episode on your iPod???

It cracks me up how in this world of so many different electronic devices that people think everyone does things the same way they do them.

Frank
 
NBC will survive without iTunes.

However, iTunes needs content. Since NBC represented 30% show sales, iTMS is very much at a disadvantage.. especially since they will lose shows such as:
* BSG
* Star Gate Atlantis ( possibly the SG1 movies )
* The Office
* Heroes

All these shows are popular. Individual people may think these suck, but they miss the larger picture.

It sucks then iTMS will lose NBC, but NBC and Apple *BOTH* need to be more flexible.
 
...I've long thought it silly that ABC offers free, full-length episodes online, while also trying to sell the same content through iTunes. ...The choice seems obvious to me.

Yeah, but with ABC you have to watch on your computer in a window. Can't put it on your TV or iPod. My wife still hasn't watched the Gray's Anatomy finale becuase she doesn't want to watch it on the computer.
 
hulu.com TOS excerpt said:
HULU TERMS OF USE

Welcome to Hulu.

Hulu.com (the "Site") is operated by N-F NewSite, LLC (Hulu), and materials on the Site are owned by Hulu and its licensors.

Hulu has created this Site for your personal enjoyment and entertainment. However, you are only authorized to access this Site or to use the materials contained in the Site (regardless of whether your access or use is intended) if you agree to abide by all applicable laws, and to these Terms of Use, which together constitute an Agreement between you and Hulu. Please read these Terms of Use carefully and save them. If you do not agree with them, you should leave this Site immediately. Any questions or comments regarding, or problems with, this Site should be sent to the Site Administrator at help@hulu.com.

I emailed them to see what sign-up does. My email is already in the wild.

redacted hulu.com sign-up ping said:
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 12:57:35 +1000
From: "Hulu" <beta@hulu.com>
Subject: Confirmation from Hulu
X-Originating-IP: [72.15.222.65]
To: "Rocketman" [munged]
List-Unsubscribe: <http://hulu.confirmsubscription.com/u/l-3l44t/8jy[munged]/>

You have successfully submitted [munged] for inclusion on the Hulu private beta invite list.

We will send an invitation as soon as we are ready for you!

Thank you,

Team Hulu

P.S. To remove [munged] from the Hulu private beta invite list, click http://hulu.confirmsubscription.com/u/l-3l44t/8jy[munged]/.

Rocketman
 
Forbes wrote an article saying that Apple is contractually obligated to show NBC shows through December.
 
Forbes wrote an article saying that Apple is contractually obligated to show NBC shows through December:

Code:
a source familiar with the situation says that Apple is contractually obligated to sell episodes of all returning NBC TV shows through early December.
 
"In addition, we asked Apple to take concrete steps to protect content from piracy, since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material."

So basically they wanted Apple to lock down the iPod so it would only play DRM'd iTunes videos. And Apple said **** no.

And now instead of adding more legal content to the iTunes store at a reasonable price (nobody is going to spend 5 bucks for a ****ing tv episode) to get people to buy it instead of pirate it, they are instead in their infinite wisdom removing all of the legal content so people have no choice but to pirate it.

That makes sense. No wonder NBC has the lowest ratings. They're ****ing morons.
 
NBC will survive without iTunes.

However, iTunes needs content.

I'm afraid you're right - Apple's edge as a distributor (with their ipod lock-in and user interface) has always been precarious. At the end of the day content providers can easily use other distribution channels. People will go other places to get the shows they want to see...

It will be interesting to see how hulu.com is compatible with the ipod (or not...)
 
I think NBC is delusional about just how important their TV shows are. Yes I like Heroes, but I think I'll manage if somehow I do no get to watch a episode. And there is no way in hell I am going to pay more than $1.99 for a TV show...will not happen.

I may just end up getting a EyeTV HD thingie and recording them in HD on my G5. Watch them..., archive to H.264 and delete...rinse, lather... repeat.

-mark
 
Well, if hulu decides to allow their stuff in canada, that one-ups itunes in my books.

But that aside...I think services like iTunes are important to aggregate distribution of the content. Right now it feels like one only needs one type of TV to watch the content they want...(with some exceptions). If iTunes fails and each station decides to put their own "store" up, then it will be like you need a "TV" for each provider! Then someone will step in and aggregate them again somehow...they are forgetting the the customer is lazy and wants it to be easy to watch what they need!

The one other thing I need to get off my chest, is why they feel they need to make more money off these episodes at this point? The damn things are already paid for by commercials and cable companies in the traditional distribution model. This providing of episodes on the web for an arbitrary price is just a money grab.

Don't get me wrong, I want to consume my content on demand and through my computer, I just wish they'd allow me to more easily!

Cheers
James.
 
From the Forbes article:

Aside from pricing issues, NBC has previously indicated that it wants Apple's help in preventing pirated NBC content from being playable on iPods, which hurts its ability to sell downloads of its programming.

So NBC wants them to prevent pirated NBC content from being playable on iPods? How do they propose that they do that? If I bought a DVD set of an NBC TV show and rip it to be able to play it on my iPod, how can the iPod distinguish that (a legal, not pirated show) from an NBC TV show that I downloaded (an illegal, pirated show)? As I see it, there is little or no way for the iPod to do this. Therefore, the only two options for the iPod are to have it allow everything, or nothing. (In this context, nothing being no non-DRM videos.) Any, oh how the 'nothing' option would p-off consumers. I seriously doubt that Apple would even consider going down that path...
 
Interesting dynamics

NBC Universal tries to renegotiate its iTunes arrangement, while Universal declines to sign a long-term contract with iTunes.

That, combined with the interesting article about Columbia records' new co-ceo, shows that the music industry really is (1) running scared, and (2) lashing out at anyone in the business that's successful.

They're scared because their business is melting away, and they don't know what to do. The old way of doing business isn't working, and there is no new way of doing business.

In the article, the guy wants to believe that subscription services are the future. He says that the same way that a drowning man dreams of water in the desert. But a subscription service won't save the labels. Likewise, the music industry focuses their ire on the only successful player in the industry (iTunes). Instead of thinking about iTunes' success and why it's working, they focus on the simple, media (and competitor) driven talk about vendor-lock in.

That's a red herring - you can't get to market dominance by providing something that people don't want or like. You can break out of iTunes DRM so simply that it's silly - and not very many people bother.

So why does iTunes work? Because it's easy, it's convenient, and it has the content that people want. I's probably a combination of the network effect (content) and the fact that there is very little thinking required.

With Windows DRM-based stores, you never know exactly what you can do with the music. If you have a subscription, can you sync it to a device? Can you listen to it on another machine? If you get an album, do you get all the songs (sometimes not)? How much does it cost?

In a record store (oh, a CD store) you look at the price on the cover and you buy it at that price. That price allows you to do pretty much everything you want with the music. In iTunes, you look at the price, and that price allows you to do a lot of things with the music. In Windows DRM-based stores, there are multiple prices depending on what the label allows you to do. That's confusing.

iTunes does have variable pricing, but the variable pricing is off the base price: higher prices translates to more stuff for the consumer. In the EMI case higher prices = better quality, no DRM. That's easy, simple, and can be easily branded (iTunes plus).

So where does that leave the record companies? It leaves them trying to survive in a market they don't understand, with competitors that are smarter than them, selling a product that nobody wants, and behaving in ways that are irrational. Why would you alienate a supplier that provides you with millions of dollars of business? Why prosecute your customers for doing what radio stations have been doing for years (distributing content for free)*?

Before the rock & roll era, the music business wasn't such a big deal. Maybe it's going back to those days, where music is just background and singles. The same thing is happening to radio and TV - the audiences are leaving. The world is changing, and not in ways that help media creators.

Let's put it this way: how much of the industry revenue was people replacing their vinyl with CDs? How much of iTunes revenue is from people moving their collections to digital? That's not a growing business - that's a replacement business.

What should record companies do? Well, it's not my problem. If they want to pay people to think about it I'm available, but realistically speaking record companies aren't willing to change that much. They aren't businesses the way real businesses are - they have a veneer of artistic sensibility that corrupts the way they work and look at the world.

* Radio actually does pay for music via licensing, but that's invisible to the consumer. Everyone used to tape stuff of the radio, and it was free. That perception carried over to the digital realm. Even now, you can turn on your radio and get free music, at a decent audio quality. When I used to buy tapes, each tape had a payment to the music industry embedded in it - for copyright fees, the assumption being I'm buying tapes to record music off the radio. Can I use those payments and apply them to my digital music?
 
It sucks then iTMS will lose NBC, but NBC and Apple *BOTH* need to be more flexible.
I respectfully disagree. Apple has a simple, generally well-liked an mostly fair pricing scheme. Two bucks an episode, period.

NBC wants to "bundle", and to have "flexible" pricing. They want to force me to purchase something I don't want along with something I do want - at a price point that could be anywhere fom one dollar to five on any given day.

I much prefer knowing that when I go on iTunes I'm going to find what I'm looking for and be charged two dollars for it, rather than worrying about how popular a particular show is and how much they're going to bend me over.

Call it a hunch, but I don't think NBC is planning these changes to benefit the consumer...
It will be interesting to see how hulu.com is compatible with the ipod (or not...)
It won't be. Apple doesn't license out the Fairplay DRM to anyone, and the iPod won't play any other DRM. I think RealNetworks reverse engineered it to allow their stuff to play, but I don't remember if they got sued.
 
Yes iTunes needs content. But didn't they say that most content on iPods are not purchased through iTunes? So the leave of NBC wouldn't hurt iPod sales. iTunes sales will be hurt a bit.
 
There is a difference

Will Hulu require a paid subscription, or will it offer free on-demand episodes much like ABC offers on their website?

...I've long thought it silly that ABC offers free, full-length episodes online, while also trying to sell the same content through iTunes. ...The choice seems obvious to me.


And quite honestly, I'm a little happy at this news. I never liked the direction the iTunes Store was heading with their TV and movie sales.

The difference being that the episodes that you can watch for free carry commercials and can't be downloaded. The site itself (in the case of Hereos and others I have visited) are ridden with commercials and ads where the iTunes store is not.

I suspect that the networks want to repackage their content on their sites so that they can use this as a means to sell more advertising. So, we will either have free episodes of shows that you can watch with commercials and can download (or not). Or pay for the shows that will include commercials. Given the byzantine thinking of corporate America, I suspect their thinking is that consumers are paying for shows with commercials in the form of cable TV then consumers will pay to download the shows (with commercials) too. We'll see.

NBC could have "bundled" their shows by offering iTunes cards at a discount from their site. I'm sure that a code could have been generated so that when you buy NBC content, let's say any 2 shows, or say, one episode of Heroes plus a less popular show then you pay only $3.50 or something.

The arguement that copy protection wasn't rigid enough is rather curious since I've not heard of any way yet to circumvent Apple DRM on iTunes. It also seems to foreshadow NBC's direction in this regard. Obviously they want more DRM and not less. That's certainly the way of the future in their philistine thinking.
 
People for some reason dont see the big picture and defend apple.

But in reality itunes need nbc...nbc will still continue to have a channel
with content still coming out regardless of a deal with itunes.
Apple is just the middleman and hold really no strength over networks.
How many middlemans are out there right now?
yeah itunes is the biggest but seriously all it takes is for stuff like this to happen and if networks go to other "middleman" boom there goes our beloved itunes store.

Juts like itunes blossomed into what it is today-other services can do teh same by simply being backed by major networks...

Does uncle steve really think he is hurting nbc?
whos really inflicting the pain here?

and regarding pricing i hope people dont really think it will remain as is forever...
Get serious 2 dollars now but we in the golden era just wait and the 2 dollars will be increased with some type of gimmick behind it for the general public to accept it.
Apple is procrastinating the inevitable.

I think apple wants to keep the pricing leveled simply because they want a cut from sales. Like how they did with drm free tracks and started charging 1.29 im pretty sure apple is pocketing more then 10 cents per drm free track sold. Since they proably charge conversion fees. They most likely want to do the same with video...they are selling it at 1.99 now but if they increase teh quality then they get to pocket more money since their claim will be "improved quality on our part".
they will just put a blanket over your eyes and we will learn to accept it. Not nbc or apple is on the end user side it bottoms down to money. And in a business we are all moving dollars.
 
Not to sound like a jerk, but I really want someone to explain to me how you can "steal" NBC shows when anyone in the US can get the shows for free with an antenna?
 
So as others have pointed out i think apple needs content more than NBC needs to sell their shows through iTunes. The question becomes: what happens if other content providers follow suit and pull their content. I think the answer is: apple tv becomes a DVR, with a significantly lower price and easy over the air transfer to your iPod or mac.
 
The difference being that the episodes that you can watch for free carry commercials and can't be downloaded.

You can download any stream from a web page and edit the commercials out and view in any player of choice. The question is do you want to take the extra trouble that are involved with the steps. :)

DRM is flawed as humans write it and other humans take great joy in breaking it. ;)
 
The one other thing I need to get off my chest, is why they feel they need to make more money off these episodes at this point? The damn things are already paid for by commercials and cable companies in the traditional distribution model. This providing of episodes on the web for an arbitrary price is just a money grab.

Production costs are taking a healthy jump up because of things like moving from SD to HD and increased production value while ad revenue has been steadily declining as the proliferation of a wider variety of media has eroded TV ratings.


Lethal
 
Before the rock & roll era, the music business wasn't such a big deal. Maybe it's going back to those days, where music is just background and singles. The same thing is happening to radio and TV - the audiences are leaving. The world is changing, and not in ways that help media creators.

Let's put it this way: how much of the industry revenue was people replacing their vinyl with CDs? How much of iTunes revenue is from people moving their collections to digital? That's not a growing business - that's a replacement business.

Amen brother.

Once I buy the White Album on iTunes Plus I'll never have to buy it again ever... The record companies must really freak out about that. Movement to new formats drives so much profit. Digital is kind of the "end all, be all" of formats. I'm realizing that this is why they want the subscription model so badly. So I can pay for the music I own over and over again. Just like the move from record to tape to CD, but infinate. It must be like the Holly Grail to them. They need to go back an consentrate on what they are supposed to do. Find talent, produce it, and entertain people. Maybe, just maybe, they'll actully enrich the culture we live in.

They are also to busy selling disposable music and artists to kids. I know music has always been sold to the youth and needs that market but by now it really has been reduced to the lowest common denomenator. They put so much money behind enormous atomic flashes in the pan. They want you to hate it in a week so they can sell it to you all over again as quickly as possible.

I know this threads is supposed to be about TV shows but many of these ideas are true for video media.

iTunes scares big media giants because it gives the consumer too much control. Consumers made iTunes + iPod popular by choice. Not even the biggest Mac fanboy would have predicted that in 2001. There was no controling it. It just happened becuase someone got it right for once.

So yeah, the big media companies need to adapt, not go away. All they need to do is realize they have the tools they need to fix the problem. They need to focus on making great content that people will choose to watch or buy. That means encouraging creativity and having the confidence to take a risk. Building an empire from mind contol marketing is a tower of babble waiting to crumble.
 
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