Nearly bought a Macbook today

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by stenoboy, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. stenoboy macrumors newbie

    Nov 18, 2007
    I nearly bought a Macbook today as I need one for work. I got talking to one of the sales guys in the store, and, for the first time, I understood what utter Macfanboyism is all about. I explained I needed it mostly for word processing and I couldn't find the forward delete key on the keyboard (I thought it had one like my iMac keyboard has). The sales guy was very dismissive and sneering and said in "all his years" of using a Mac (he looked about 15) he'd never needed a forward delete key. Taken aback, I said sorry, but I did as I edit acres of text at a time and scrolling through a word at a time, a forward delete saves a keystroke when you land before a punctuation mark, punctuation being the main thing that gets deleted.

    I asked if I could see Bootcamp in action on one of the machines as I already used Parallels, but I needed to see Bootcamp before I bought the machine because I wanted to see if the Fn+Backspace (which I worked out after vaguely reading something about it) in action in Windows before I'd buy. He just snorted and said, "I don't think you'll find us running Windows in this store" or some such nonsense.

    The rest of the discourse was him being utterly dismissive of my need to use Windows and I remarked the switch and ability to use both systems is a big driver of sales. He just flicked his dusting cloth at a white Macbook and I walked away.

    I was so disappointed at his attitude and Apple have lost a sale. I was going to complain to the manager but didn't have the time as I needed to get away to meet someone.

    I don't know the ins and outs of running a copy of Windows on a Macbook or why they don't have one set up in store - it will convince a lot of people to switch if they saw it in action, perhaps?

    And are there pitfalls to running Windows on a Macbook? I don't want to have to run Windows, but the software I use for work will only run in Windows so it's a non-negotiable.
  2. Eric Lewis macrumors 68020

    Eric Lewis

    Feb 4, 2007
    CANADA? eh?
    were you at an apple store? cause you will never find windows there...maybe by the door...
  3. stenoboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Nov 18, 2007
    Yes. Don't know why showing Windows would be a problem if it increases sales.
  4. TheStu macrumors 65816

    Aug 20, 2006
    Carlisle, PA
    Fn+delete is a forward delete, and that works in Windows as well.
  5. Diode macrumors 68020


    Apr 15, 2004
    Washington DC
    Your surprised that they refuse to run the OS of their greatest competitor in the store?

    Anyways to answer your question fn+delete works in parallels/fusion
  6. seenett macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2007
    I am a recent "mac convert", and one of the final things that pushed me to a mac was the ability to run Windows - either via Boot Camp or virtualization. Apple knows this is a big deal; they even use it in their advertising.

    I was also surprised how dismissive the Apple sales people are to any mention of the "W" word. Sorry, but there are just NOT equivalent mac applications for all windows applications. Seems to me that Apple has a history of making computers easy for computer novices, but at the retail level they are ignoring the growing number of windows users who are curious about macs. I was very put off by my first visit to an Apple store.
  7. djinn macrumors 68000


    Oct 4, 2003
    First of all most Apple Store salesman don't have a clue about anything. Your best bet is to do the research on your own and even ask on the forums here.

    As far as Windows I had the same issue. When Boot Camp came out I asked the Sales guy about it and he acted like I made up a fairy tale. He did however have Parallels to show me but said it might get a virus if he boots it up.

    Don't let one jerk off turn you away from a great product.
  8. Techguy172 macrumors 68000

    Feb 2, 2007
    Ontario Canada
    Yeah you pretty much need to find out on your own because your not going to get too much help from these people they really don't know too much about computers.
  9. Ryan5505 macrumors regular

    Apr 12, 2006
    Becoming a problem

    It seems to me the non apple flagship stores have issues with employees that either do not know the hardware/software or some are just rude. At my office I had a G5 die so we went to the Streets of Souhpointe store in Durham to pick up a new one b/c they are critical to our business. I then get hasseled for apple care. I then tell him we have an it dept that are certified in macs and I do not need it. He tried for about 5 more minutes to sell me applecare. I found that to just be rude after I had already said no.
  10. stenoboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Nov 18, 2007
    To be fair, I've only had good experiences in the Apple store other than this one time. I think the key to success is not to choose an arrogant teenager who was more keen to tell me how amazing a Mac was (I know, I already own one) as opposed to assessing and meeting my needs.

    Shame about the Fn+Backspace. I love the forward delete and hate the fact it becomes a two-key operation on the laptop. Still, when I saw the Macbook, I first wanted to lick it, so that was a good sign! I'll take another look with a better advisor.
  11. HLdan macrumors 603


    Aug 22, 2007
    I think the OP's choice of words "macfanboyism" is not at all worthy of the conversation between he and the Apple employee. The Apple employee was spot on with what he said. Apple has sold Macs many years before these "so-called" switchers came into the picture and long before they could run Windows. You are not a true switcher anyway if the deciding factor to buying a Mac is that it has to run Windows.

    I switched years ago and I was a Windows fanboy that couldn't live without my Windows software. When I decided to switch to an Apple Macintosh I LEFT Windows.

    Now I totally understand that the OP has certain needs but to expect the Apple store to have bootcamp setup to show off Windows? No, that's expecting too much, they already show Windows on Parallels at the Apple store.

    The OP is in the right place to come to the forums and ask about the Forward-Delete key but he's in the wrong calling the Apple employee a Mac Fanboy. He's works for Apple for goodness sake.
    I think Apple already does a lot in setting up Parallels in the Apple retail stores. Apple wants to sell Mac OS X, not to sell the Macs because they can run Windows.
    You will never see Bill Gates or Microsoft presenting to a crowd running the Mac OS X system. The OP needs to be more fair.
  12. elppa macrumors 68040


    Nov 26, 2003
    He sounds like a right tool.

    It's actually a good idea to have a machine running VMWare to show to people contemplating moving to Mac “seeing is believing”.

    I hope you still willing to consider the Mac and have found the responses people on this forum friendly and helpful. It would be a shame to be put off by one idiot.

    In answer to your questions:

    Before we begin:
    You mention using you have used Parallels, there is another piece of software called VMWare, which many (myself included) feel does a better job. If you really have your heart set on Parallels, then replace “Parallels” with “VMWare” in the text below.

    [1] FN - Delete works on
    a) The Mac
    b) Windows under VMWare
    c) Windows under Bootcamp

    [2] Running Windows on a MacBook
    [a] Under Bootcamp, their are no pitfalls, you get all the drivers and it runs native speed.
    Under VMWare you won't get brilliant 3D support. For most things (Outlook, Office etc.) this is not a problem. For playing games (if you are a gamer) then you need bootcamp.
    [c] You can use your Bootcamp partition as a virtual machine in VMWare, which gives you the best of both worlds. If you want to run Windows/Mac side by side then you can, but if you wish to restart and get the 3D graphics then this option is also available.
    [d] Included on the CD are special drivers for your Mac keyboard (laid out slightly differently to standard PC keyboards). Also, trackpad gestures, such as two finger scrolling work in both VMWare and Bootcamp once the drivers are installed. Once you have installed Windows, you need to install these.
  13. HLdan macrumors 603


    Aug 22, 2007
    So why buy a Mac if Windows can do it all for you? Don't misunderstand the question, I'm just curious, if you were fine with Windows taking care of all your software then why buy a Mac?
  14. stenoboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Nov 18, 2007
    Perhaps you could explain his roll of the eyes when I mentioned Bootcamp and Windows? He started to explain why the Mac was better and I had to stop him to tell him my work required Windows. His condescending attitude had no place in a retail environment.

    Oh, please. It being a "Switcher" some kind of badge of honour, a religion too? I have switched to a Mac as my desktop and junked the PC. Sure, I run Parallels on the desktop - does that take credit of my switcher status? The deciding factor in my buying a laptop is the ability to run Windows. All my work requires Windows. The software companies that I use do not write for Macs.


    If Apple are constantly using adverts comparing themselves to PCs and also advertising the fact the their laptops will run Vista faster than other laptops, dammit, I want to see this for myself. Bootcamp is another program in the Mac array and it should be there for trialling, as is the other software on the Mac. I'm not going to drop £1,000 for something I will use twice a year on holiday.

    When you've met a few religious zealots in your life, you'll know what I'm talking about here. He had NO interest in me using Windows, despite this ability being promoted by Apple themselves.

    Or Apple needs to rein in its advertising of Windows? If you advertise it as a selling point, I expect to be wowed by it and not take it on trust. I bought my iMac because I wanted a Mac for home use and some work. I wanted the Macbook for on-the-road work and when kicking back using it to update photos, blog etc on OS X, my preferred system of choice. This is the scenario I think that's being SOLD here by Apple themselves.
  15. elppa macrumors 68040


    Nov 26, 2003
    All they have said is there are certain Windows Applications which do not have Mac equivalents. This is a perfectly valid and reasonable observation.

    The poster does not say anywhere that Windows “does it all”.
  16. stenoboy thread starter macrumors newbie

    Nov 18, 2007

    Thank you, elppa, that's allayed some of my fears and answered my questions.
  17. TatsuTerror macrumors regular

    Jan 1, 2008
    That's downright arrogant. Some people are required by their job to run a Windows program or two...maybe this guy wants another Mac but also needs it to run that/those program(s). Apple has sold a lot more Macs lately partially because they have opened up to Windows through their switch to Intel. A "true switcher?" This isn't like the dark side and the Apple side, Windows has its perks -- for one, Windows XP and Vista can run more programs than Leopard can. Don't retort saying "oh, but Macs can run Windows programs too, they can run more programs than any computer!" because then you contradict yourself. Apple has played the 'more programs than any PC' card whether you like it or not, and to do that Apple acknowledges the need for Windows. Apple doesn't care if you are a "true switcher" -- if you buy their products, why should they care if you need to run Windows sometimes?
  18. dwc macrumors newbie

    Oct 31, 2007
    I nearly bought a Macbook today as I need one for work.

    Hey, don't let one retail store employee keep you from switching to a great computer.......MacBook.

    As the guys here stated........function/delete, for your forward delete.
    And most of the guys here are more knowledgeable than store.

    I'm a recent convert to Mac, & have to run Windows for 1 remaining work database.

    Use Boot Camp, works great, MacBook boots quickly, & 'they should have one set-up in store to show how Mac runs Windows better than a PC'.
  19. seenett macrumors regular

    Dec 4, 2007
    Others have already come to my defense (thanks!), so let me also add that I didn't say Windows takes care of all my software.

    Intuit does not produce a version of Quicken for Mac that is an equal to Quicken for Windows. I haven't been able to find any financial software for mac that comes close.

    My XM Inno will ONLY interface with Napster. Managing XM content on the Inno pretty much requires a Windows machine.

    Apple used to offer Surf; Microsoft used to offer Turf. Now Mac offers Surf&Turf, while Windows still only offers Turf (or the new Vista ground beef). I don't understand why you are so adamant about getting Surf with no Turf.
  20. heySparky macrumors regular


    Mar 8, 2007
    I didn't know that. It's nice to learn new things.
  21. forafireescape macrumors 6502a


    Jan 16, 2008
    I just wanted to reiterate - don't let one idiot kid ruin it for you. Macs are great machines, and though I don't personally do it myself, I've heard they're great for running Windows as well. I'd look more into it before dismissing it - but yeah, that kid is a loser.
  22. 147798 Suspended

    Dec 29, 2007
    I agree. They could do more to support switchers. And although I love going to the Mac store for the technology, and I have found 2 great salespeople to work with, there are a LOT of twits in the stores. Sorry for your experience. I think they are all brainwashed in the stores, in order to work there, though I've had a couple of good sales people there (literally, 2. Actually, one of the guys in my local store produces the website Fancy meeting him in the store).

    Macs run Windows fantastic. I was running XP on my older Mac at home, and it was faster than the PC it replaced. Still, I made a conscious decision to expunge XP from my life, so I'm all mac now.

    HOWEVER, one of our techs at work is running a Mac with Vista and XP virtual machines doing HEAVY DUTY processing on the Windows side (we make enterprise software, and are exploring moving to Macs, because we have to support both sides, and we can save hw money by buying only Macs, instead of both). So, I can confidently recommend a Mac for running windows -- be it VMWare, Parallels or Bootcamp.
  23. schatzie macrumors member

    Jan 30, 2008
    I agree. I have to say, I've had pretty good experiences at the Apple Stores. Don't let one bad experience affect your decision.
  24. zirkle2007 macrumors 6502


    Sep 25, 2007
    Indiana, USA
  25. Diode macrumors 68020


    Apr 15, 2004
    Washington DC
    What can quicken do on windows that it can't do on the mac? Just curious

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