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The funny thing is that people with an average household income of less than 15k/year are within 6 percentage points of being as likely to switch to the Mac as people with an average household income of more than 150k.

So, are the people in the <15k group planning on finding higher paying jobs or banking on winning the lottery?
Students and young adults. They don't have to pay for everything. Their parents and governments pay for a significant portion of their living costs. Especially if they are university students.
 
Regardless of the folks who have thrown shade at this article, I am willing to bet that more folks will switch from Microsoft to Mac than vice versa.
I teach an adult ed class for older folks learning to use iOS devices. Of the roughly 80 folks in the four classes I have taught thus far I would say that at least a quarter of them plan on buying a Mac for their next computer. The halo effect for the iPhone and iPad is very strong. Many of those folks are just frustrated with Windows and have enjoyed their experience with iOS.
As with most items on this forum, posters confuse specs with performance and experience. In the iOS class I teach few of the folks care about specs. They care about simplicity, core performance and the interface.

It's funny because iOS used to be so straight-forward and simple, as well as fast. It was magnificent.

Now, it's slow and complicated to use. Judging by the iOS 11 hands-on demos, it will be more complicated yet.

I never used to get really any questions on how to use it, but I get them all the time now.

There are so many gestures and cryptic icons, 3D-touch menus, etc, that there is much more to learn and memorize.
 
It's completely true. Research your history.

20 years ago, most people did NOT connect to the internet. They bought a computer for word processing, games, or something else. And if they wanted some current information, they used AOL, which was connecting to AOL service, not the general internet.

You see computers today where you boot it up, and connecting to the internet is just one of those things you do. It has only been like that for about 10 years now. Less, for other people.

I'm well aware of my history... I've worked in the tech industry for over 30 years. What I said was no normal user is going to turn a new computer on, plug in a cable, and suddenly its attacked and unusable. If you want to go back to a primitive time in computer history, in a specific case, to pick an example... how in the world is that applicable in anything related to this thread?

An average user buying a new Windows 10 PC vs. someone buying a new Mac are pretty equally safe unless they do something stupid. Neither requires installing any additional security software, and both are updated frequently to patch any security risks.

I hate windows .we are force to use it at work and it it a royal pain in the butt to use because of the software we run

You are not "forced to use it at work". You have a choice to work at a place and use their tools, or not work there. If its that important, then quit and work in a place that has the tools you like.
 
I'm well aware of my history... I've worked in the tech industry for over 30 years. What I said was no normal user is going to turn a new computer on, plug in a cable, and suddenly its attacked and unusable. If you want to go back to a primitive time in computer history, in a specific case, to pick an example... how in the world is that applicable in anything related to this thread?

An average user buying a new Windows 10 PC vs. someone buying a new Mac are pretty equally safe unless they do something stupid. Neither requires installing any additional security software, and both are updated frequently to patch any security risks.



You are not "forced to use it at work". You have a choice to work at a place and use their tools, or not work there. If its that important, then quit and work in a place that has the tools you like.


Hmmmm....
Well, I know in the XP days- a fresh install, unpatched & connected to the internet had a window of 4 minutes prior to infection.
From what you’re saying- I guess Windows 10 is better. But you could certainly forgive people for having memories of insecurity in a company’s OS, yeah? It makes sense for a “normal” user to not trust Windows to stay virus/malware free.
 
My whole company switched to the 2014 Mac minis with SSD's (from newer Windows PCs) and are completely blown away by Macs performance/OS and can't fathom how they ever used windows. So some of this may be true.

There are a billion Windows users who can't fathom why they'd ever use a Mac.

And there are a billion Windows users compared to only 100 million Macs.
 
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If you want to go back to a primitive time in computer history, in a specific case, to pick an example... how in the world is that applicable in anything related to this thread?

It was a COMMON occurrence back in the early 2000s. I troubleshooted this problem at LEAST 20 times with friends and family in a few years period, which made me decide to switch. Either use something safe, or not. My choice was to use something safe.

An average user buying a new Windows 10 PC vs. someone buying a new Mac are pretty equally safe unless they do something stupid. Neither requires installing any additional security software, and both are updated frequently to patch any security risks.

I agree that in the CURRENT Windows, yes, you can connect to the internet directly and not get a virus immediately. Microsoft has solved most of these problems. But it's too late for them to get me back. I switched long ago, and enjoy Mac MUCH better.

You are not "forced to use it at work". You have a choice to work at a place and use their tools, or not work there. If its that important, then quit and work in a place that has the tools you like.

This is where you just don't get it. You take a job, and are forced to do what they ask. You are forced to have a windowed office where you stare at the parking lot, or have no window at all. Co-workers are annoying. Lots of things you put up with. Using Windows is just one inconvenience of many. That doesn't mean you leave the company. You need to weigh the good vs bad. You might want to stay there because other things are nice, but you're still allowed to complain that Windows sucks.

Currently, I work at a job that allows me to use a Mac. This was one amongst MANY choices I made to move to this company from a Windows company. It's hard to find a perfect job. There are usually things you need to put up with. My current job is no different.
 
Hmmmm....
Well, I know in the XP days- a fresh install, unpatched & connected to the internet had a window of 4 minutes prior to infection.
From what you’re saying- I guess Windows 10 is better. But you could certainly forgive people for having memories of insecurity in a company’s OS, yeah? It makes sense for a “normal” user to not trust Windows to stay virus/malware free.
4 Minutes? Really? Hmmm, guess me and ALL my friends who ran XP are the outliers you never hear about. NONE of us got hit, with anything, before we decided to install anti-virus. And IIRC, it was probably at least 6 months before my anti-virus had to step in. Obtw, in almost 30 years of using PC's and Macs, i have had probably less than 5 anti-virus saves on the PC and none on the Mac.
 
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I'm not careful with mine, just lucky I guess.
My mother is the worst person in the world for using a computer and has spent $0 repairing/fixing up her computers.
I just wish she was more with it with pishing attacks over the phone...
you forgot to knock on wood
i had a neighbor that "fixes" computer, he always had a competition problem with me
he takes the person computer then he call me or email me asking me what to do and how to repair the computer
funny guy right, he want me to tell him so gets pay for it
i help him a few times but i didn't like that
the guy was extremely lazy and didn't like to clean install
some times was necessary to clean install
he always try to clean the system a little without clean installing
simply be removing programs
all his "costumers" always brought the computer back for repairs
that guy didn't know nothing about security or how to optimized the system for performance
i asked him one day to showed me a computer after he clean install windows and setup everything

when i saw the computer i asked him , do you called that fix?
are you sure that is setup because i see a lot of flaws
but since he didn't know he tought that everything was fine

for me it was like an incomplete mess
the point is that people perceive things different

and while some people might think that their system is perfectly alright
is really a mess but they just don't know

after a while he lost all his costumers because really he knew just the basics
but he didn't know the advance mode

now he got another job

while i still got people looking for me
i fix some one computer then they bring me a family member or a friend computer for me to fix
because they like how i work and how their computer is running

to close the story i know people that buy new computers and the store
and a week later that pc is completely destroy

i don't like doing nothing for that kind of person that don't care of their stuff
[doublepost=1498764541][/doublepost]
4 Minutes? Really? Hmmm, guess me and ALL my friends who ran XP are the outliers you never hear about. NONE of us got hit, with anything, before we decided to install anti-virus. And IIRC, it was probably at least 6 months before my anti-virus had to step in. Obtw, in almost 30 years of using PC's and Macs, i have had probably less than 5 anti-virus saves on the PC and none on the Mac.
yes he is right, connecting the first version of windows xp to the internet without applying the worm blaster patch will infect the system in probably 1 to 2 minutes, so he saying 4 was being modest. even still today it will still happen, it was later fixed with the service packs that included the patch in the new version of windows

maybe the version of windows you installed was SP1 SP2 SP3
those had the security hole already patched in the windows installation disc

so when you installed windows your system was already protected against that vulnerability
 
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Now there's a funny headline... talk about taking a small aspect of a survey and reporting a headline to make it seem like something completely different. Less than 1% of the world's population makes $150k+ per year. To say 20 percent of that 1% is considering switching as a headline is just bad reporting.
There's no reality to the survey. The market for PC\MAC has been shrinking for years, so in theory even if the same number of units were sold on Mac side, the market share would have increased. It hasn't. My guess is "This survey brought to you by Apple Inc" lol
In the cited survey, it said “6-24 months”.
Reading the comments in MR and the new MBP, 3 in 4 Mac users planning to switch to windows,
thats pretty typical for internet commenters.
 
yes he is right, connecting the first version of windows xp to the internet without applying the worm blaster patch will infect the system in probably 1 to 2 minutes, so he saying 4 was being modest. even still today it will still happen, it was later fixed with the service packs that included the patch in the new version of windows

maybe the version of windows you installed was SP1 SP2 SP3
those had the security hole already patched in the windows installation disc

so when you installed windows your system was already protected against that vulnerability
No it was the original XP I had to buy, not updated. Now, I admit that it was, IIRC, the wormblaster that attacked me but as noted, it was 6 months or so before it hit. OBTW, worm blaster, or blaster worm depending on how you google it, didn't hit till Aug. 2003, XP went GM late 2001 which is pretty close to when I bought it.
 
s
I'm well aware of my history... I've worked in the tech industry for over 30 years. What I said was no normal user is going to turn a new computer on, plug in a cable, and suddenly its attacked and unusable. If you want to go back to a primitive time in computer history, in a specific case, to pick an example... how in the world is that applicable in anything related to this thread?

An average user buying a new Windows 10 PC vs. someone buying a new Mac are pretty equally safe unless they do something stupid. Neither requires installing any additional security software, and both are updated frequently to patch any security risks.



You are not "forced to use it at work". You have a choice to work at a place and use their tools, or not work there. If its that important, then quit and work in a place that has the tools you like.
sorry my friend i do respect you, you and your opinion but you are missing some thing important here
microsoft is not that secure it still have vulnerability problems
even if you don't install anything
just by not having a security patch install you are vulnerable to attack until that vulnerability is discovered and patch
why you think microsoft introduce the force update features
and even doing that to try to protect the user by having their system patch and updated
it takes time for that new vulnerability to be patch and discover

and just to prove to you that this still happens today in windows 10
look for
WannaCry ransomware attack
in wiki

yes all os has vulnerability problems
but windows has more holes than a sieve
 
yeah.

at the same time though, i suppose it (this particular graph) could be misleading in the way it's presented here since we don't know how many people are in each group.

like, there are probably far more people in the $30-40k range who say they're switching to mac even though it's the lowest group on the graph.


if 6000 random people were surveyed, it's likely only 60 of them are in the $150k and up group.. 20% being 12 people.. so 12 of the higher income people will switch but the middle group might consist of 1000 people.. if 7% of them say they switch then that's 70 people from the middle-ground group.

re: the lower incomes.. at the survey's site, they say upon closer inspection, the 'poor' group contains a high amount of teens and early 20s.. indicative of parental support in their purchases.

---
(no actual point.. just talking)

Wow that's good analysis.
 
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WannaCry ransomware attack

The WannaCry randomware attack did not affect Windows 10, or Windows 8.x machines that were kept up to date with their patch levels. The fix for WannaCry was released in a patch 2 months prior to malware.

WannaCry and now Petya, which did affect some unpatched windows systems, only did so because it was a windows targeted attack. These were not randomly deployed Malware infections, but carefully crafted payloads with specific industries in mind.

The reason why Windows was attacked was the sheer scale of volume and importance that windows plays in the corporate world, that MacOS does not even have products that can replicate it. Nearly every comapny in this world is operating with some form of Active Directory and Exchange integration.

if you want to shut down businesses for some nefarious purpose, going after Apple and it's < 10% of the worlds Desktop users is a worthless venture. you go after windows because Windows servers power anything from simple filesharing, to providing platforms for entire banking institutions.

When Apple can say the same thing, They'll start getting more targetted too.

but as said: Microsoft had WannaCry patched in their supported operating systems months before WannaCry was released. Windows XP is 16 year old operating system and has been completely discontinued for 3 years now.
.

However, MacOS is also just as insecure as any unpatched system. Simply put, Regardless of Operating system you run, you should always be up to date on security patch levels.
 
No it was the original XP I had to buy, not updated. Now, I admit that it was, IIRC, the wormblaster that attacked me but as noted, it was 6 months or so before it hit. OBTW, worm blaster, or blaster worm depending on how you google it, didn't hit till Aug. 2003, XP went GM late 2001 which is pretty close to when I bought it.
ok so maybe it didn't hit you at first because the WM came out after you got or installed the system, shortly after that Microsoft released a security update to patch that but then another variant came out and the same thing happen all over again, until finally it was patch for good, including all variants

but anybody who installed the first version of XP after the WM blaster came out had that problem

the person had to installed the service off line before connecting to the internet to avoid infection

LONG LIVE THE KING
[doublepost=1498766319][/doublepost]
The WannaCry randomware attack did not affect Windows 10, or Windows 8.x machines that were kept up to date with their patch levels. The fix for WannaCry was released in a patch 2 months prior to malware.

WannaCry and now Petya, which did affect some unpatched windows systems, only did so because it was a windows targeted attack. These were not randomly deployed Malware infections, but carefully crafted payloads with specific industries in mind.

The reason why Windows was attacked was the sheer scale of volume and importance that windows plays in the corporate world, that MacOS does not even have products that can replicate it. Nearly every comapny in this world is operating with some form of Active Directory and Exchange integration.

if you want to shut down businesses for some nefarious purpose, going after Apple and it's < 10% of the worlds Desktop users is a worthless venture. you go after windows because Windows servers power anything from simple filesharing, to providing platforms for entire banking institutions.

When Apple can say the same thing, They'll start getting more targetted too.

but as said: Microsoft had WannaCry patched in their supported operating systems months before WannaCry was released. Windows XP is 16 year old operating system and has been completely discontinued for 3 years now.
.

However, MacOS is also just as insecure as any unpatched system. Simply put, Regardless of Operating system you run, you should always be up to date on security patch levels.
i like what you wrote but as far as i know WCRW did affect w10
microsoft was forced to try to stop the infection from spreading
that they even release a patch for WXP
and WXP has been discontinued for a few years now

many business still use xp
yes i know is old an "obsolete"

but that is their choice or decision
and maybe they got hardware that is not compatible with w10
and they will have to spend a good amount of money to buy new hardware that be compatible with w10

the only way i recommend WXP is to use it offline
 
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i like what you wrote but as far as i know WCRW did affect w10
microsoft was forced to try to stop the infection from spreading
that they even release a patch for WXP
and WXP has been discontinued for a few years now

many business still use xp
yes i know is old an "obsolete"

but that is their choice or decision
and maybe they got hardware that is not compatible with w10
and they will have to spend a good amount of money to buy new hardware that be compatible with w10

the only way i recommend WXP is to use it offline

Ph, i'm well aware many businesses still have XP. I deal with them.

Believe it or not, Microsoft will sell large enterprises security patches for XP. But it's not a consumer / public facing offering. and I don't agree with your recommendation for XP offline. I don't recommend XP. at all. Anymore. Any of my clients who I see still using it, I strongly recommend they update ASAP, or potentially lose certain portions of their SLA

and yes. Any company willingly putting themselves at risk by running unpatched system in exposed manner, really only has themselves to blame. Not Microsoft.

Any hardware that is incompatible with Windows 10 is going to be 10+ years old and is going to be out of warranty and support from their own vendor. So they are no different than above. In this day of age, a company chosing to not be current with their software, especially while online, should be responsible for their own failings.

Cannot blame Microsoft for any of this. And WannaCry only affected Windows 10 machines that were purposely unpatched. Since Microsoft forces updates on anyone on S, Home or Pro, this could only apply to Enterprise users. So again. the blame for infection falls on those who refuse to update.

It would be similar to someone running Mac OSx 10.1 Lion today on a Mac made in 2008, and then getting a malware infection (which does happen), and then blaming Apple for not back porting to a retired operating system



in reality, if we really want to blame the right people we should be blaming the *******s who wrote these virus and payloads who are attempting to disrupt major business and governments. Cyber warfare is starting to really heat up in the last few months. it's no longer just groups of hackers / crackers writing malicious code for a few bucks or notoriety. There are now international consulting organizations who will create and distributed targeted attacks like this.

the new Cold war won't be with missiles. it'll be who can hire the strongest hackers to try and disrupt systems. now more than ever do we need to keep our systems patched and as up to date as possible, regardless of what OS is running the platform
 
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s

sorry my friend i do respect you, you and your opinion but you are missing some thing important here
microsoft is not that secure it still have vulnerability problems
even if you don't install anything
just by not having a security patch install you are vulnerable to attack until that vulnerability is discovered and patch
why you think microsoft introduce the force update features
and even doing that to try to protect the user by having their system patch and updated
it takes time for that new vulnerability to be patch and discover

and just to prove to you that this still happens today in windows 10
look for
WannaCry ransomware attack
in wiki

yes all os has vulnerability problems
but windows has more holes than a sieve

I'm not missing any points here, but you are. You said "just by not having a security patch install you are vulnerable to attack". Well of course you would be vulnerable... on any OS you would be including MacOS.

Microsoft released a patch for WannaCry 2 months before the attack, so the only people that were attacked were people that went out of their way to prevent the automatic updates from happening. That is not Microsoft's fault any more than it is their fault if someone clicks on a link for a phishing scheme and has their bank account hacked. Anyone that did that, deserves to get hacked as far as I'm concerned.

Windows 10 and MacOS are both safe to use by an average user if they are not idiots and leave them configured as they come out of the box... to be safe.
 
Personally, instead of buying a new Apple laptop to replace my 2011 machine, I built a windows PC.... my 2011 machine still works of course, but for how much longer? The GPU will fry itself at some point.

As nice as the 2017 macbook pros are - I'm not spending $3K+. I don't need the gimmicky touch bar.
I lost my Apple distortion field and switched from my rMBP to a Dell XPS.
The dell XPS is better in some ways and the Apple is better in others.

One thing I started to realise but not the main reason I switched is that the Apple laptop is more expensive and I was fine with that for the sexy gear you get. But the whole ecosystem, everyone wants Apple prices.

I guess the main reason is that I didn't want to cede to what Apple thought was best for me. Or to put it another way, I also didn't want to live with Apples incessant compromises.

Would I like the new earpods? Yes but they look ugly to me at the moment.
Would I like the new speaker that was announced, yes but I want one that I can speak to.
 
you can talk to that thing
(and it listens)
Well I stand corrected...I was going by a mac podcast I listen to that said that it wasn't a competitor to the Google Home or Amazon Echo in terms of what you can do talking to it.
 
Well I stand corrected...I was going by a mac podcast I listen to that said that it wasn't a competitor to the Google Home or Amazon Echo in terms of what you can do talking to it.
When the showed it ad WWDC, they didn't spend a lot of time talking about Siri. It won't do the same things you can do with the Echo and the Echo can't do some of the stuff you can do with the HomePod. It depends on what you want from a home assistant. A lot of the podcasts underplay the Apple ecosystem that hundreds of millions of people are happy in.
 
Ph, i'm well aware many businesses still have XP. I deal with them.

Believe it or not, Microsoft will sell large enterprises security patches for XP. But it's not a consumer / public facing offering. and I don't agree with your recommendation for XP offline. I don't recommend XP. at all. Anymore. Any of my clients who I see still using it, I strongly recommend they update ASAP, or potentially lose certain portions of their SLA

and yes. Any company willingly putting themselves at risk by running unpatched system in exposed manner, really only has themselves to blame. Not Microsoft.

Any hardware that is incompatible with Windows 10 is going to be 10+ years old and is going to be out of warranty and support from their own vendor. So they are no different than above. In this day of age, a company chosing to not be current with their software, especially while online, should be responsible for their own failings.

Cannot blame Microsoft for any of this. And WannaCry only affected Windows 10 machines that were purposely unpatched. Since Microsoft forces updates on anyone on S, Home or Pro, this could only apply to Enterprise users. So again. the blame for infection falls on those who refuse to update.

It would be similar to someone running Mac OSx 10.1 Lion today on a Mac made in 2008, and then getting a malware infection (which does happen), and then blaming Apple for not back porting to a retired operating system



in reality, if we really want to blame the right people we should be blaming the *******s who wrote these virus and payloads who are attempting to disrupt major business and governments. Cyber warfare is starting to really heat up in the last few months. it's no longer just groups of hackers / crackers writing malicious code for a few bucks or notoriety. There are now international consulting organizations who will create and distributed targeted attacks like this.

the new Cold war won't be with missiles. it'll be who can hire the strongest hackers to try and disrupt systems. now more than ever do we need to keep our systems patched and as up to date as possible, regardless of what OS is running the platform
fair enough i agree, i personally have new expensive hardware but there are some cheap people out there
the only thing i don't agree is the part that you said that you don't recommend WXP at all
what harm can be done if the os is being use offline
let's just say that the person has an old computer
that is good to create documents and stuff like that
probably play some old games or emulator

at least the person can use that computer for entertainment

or that person has to spent money and buy a new pc or try to upgrade the hardware to try to run a newer version of windows

that most likely will run slow as hell

so using xp offline is no harm

everything else i agree except for that
[doublepost=1498796902][/doublepost]
I'm not missing any points here, but you are. You said "just by not having a security patch install you are vulnerable to attack". Well of course you would be vulnerable... on any OS you would be including MacOS.

Microsoft released a patch for WannaCry 2 months before the attack, so the only people that were attacked were people that went out of their way to prevent the automatic updates from happening. That is not Microsoft's fault any more than it is their fault if someone clicks on a link for a phishing scheme and has their bank account hacked. Anyone that did that, deserves to get hacked as far as I'm concerned.

Windows 10 and MacOS are both safe to use by an average user if they are not idiots and leave them configured as they come out of the box... to be safe.
don't take it personal i meant no disrespect , we can respectfully disagree, no problem with that
yes i know that all oses has vulnerabilities i never said that mac os doesn't have any vulnerability
a while ago there it was a mac vulnerability that attack the firmware and survived full formats clean installs etc
so you see i'm fair
but i only use the WCRA as an example because many people believe that windows 10 is not vulnerable to that kind of attack anymore and they blame everything on old version of windows like XP
and they swear that windows 10 is "invincible"

i see you are well aware of the situation but you know that another variant came out
right after the first one that require another new patch

one thing is having viruses , erasing the HD and reinstall the system
but you couldn't do that with that specific worm or virus
because it encrypted your HD then you will loose all you important data
if you erase the drive

yes i understand you point but even if the person didn't turn off automatic updates
is like playing Russian roulette
whatever the person get first the empty hole or the bullet
because if you get the patch before the attack then you are protected
you don't how many security updates windows releases on the daily basis

you can have your computer fully patched, don't use you computer for a week and when you turn it on
you have a whole new gig of security updates ready to be download and install

and you know how the story goes
downloading updates
installing updates
windows reboot your pc like 20 times during that process
well actually like 2 or 3 but it sure feels like more
then if the person is lucky at the end they successfully updated and patched their pc
unless they get
windows update failed rolling back
:D
windows 10 anniversary update had that problem

i'm not trying to be funny is true, this kind of thing happens to windows users
anyway i respect your opinion and point of view
we disagree in a few point but that's all right
peace
:)
 
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*Survey taken at the Apple store*

That number seems way too high. Personally it's not a one or the other. I would just have both yet Macbook are still too pricey for what you get depending on the model.
 
I agree. That's a lot of money ... I have not heard of anyone having that kind of consistent failure. What does Apple support have to say? I hope you're getting some replacement or compensation. I am currently using 2012 Macbook Pro and Ipad 3 ... both on its last legs. Your post has me thinking what I should do.


Grass is always greener... While I love OS X, iOS, and the Apple ecosystem, I am becoming fed up with Apple hardware.

> MBA 11" dead after 3 yrs (bricked).
> Mac 27" dead after 2.5 yrs (all ports dead)
> Mac Mini life span = max 24 mos after two tries
> MacBook Pro (super slow after 18 months, even after clean wipe and reinstall)
> iPhone 7 Plus - haptic home button has become laggy and slow to respond
> iPad Pro 9.7 - touch disease (very frequently, several swipes or touches are required to get a response)

This is expensive stuff! I still suspect Apple has a secret hardware deceleration and self-destruct button in the HQ basement! My MBP took a major performance dive about a week after WWDC this year. :mad:
 
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