Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Need Advice on Dis/honest technicians and water spillage?
- Thread starter cs11
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
For future referance, when you get an electronic device wet, put it in dry rice for a few days. It will suck out the moisture.
The good news is that your turned it off quickly. Water in and of itself is not a huge issue. It's the possible corrosion and shorting out of circuits that can damage things. Heck, you can run a computer totally submerged in liquid as long as itsn't conductive. IIRC, bottled water is usually less conductive then tap water (due to contaiminats and minerals in tap). Pure distilled water is actually not conductive until it's contaminated or ionized. Anyway, I wouldn't think such short exposure to water would cause corrosion issues, and since it is working fine now, there I don't think you have done damage by shorting a circuit.
The good news is that your turned it off quickly. Water in and of itself is not a huge issue. It's the possible corrosion and shorting out of circuits that can damage things. Heck, you can run a computer totally submerged in liquid as long as itsn't conductive. IIRC, bottled water is usually less conductive then tap water (due to contaiminats and minerals in tap). Pure distilled water is actually not conductive until it's contaminated or ionized. Anyway, I wouldn't think such short exposure to water would cause corrosion issues, and since it is working fine now, there I don't think you have done damage by shorting a circuit.
I'm not trying to start a fight, as I'm sure you'll most definitely think I am seeming as how angry you got at someone calling someone that wasn't you stupid, but it's not "warranty fraud" to not incriminate yourself based on something that you don't necessarily know is the cause of your problems.
The reason they put the water damage sensing stickers into the computers is so that it can be determined whether water has indeed affected the area in question. If a technician does not deem water to be the cause of the issue, there is no reason to suppose that it is the issue and demand that you be charged for the parts anyway.
The point isn't to trick Apple really, the point is to have the technician come to a conclusion, and that the conclusion is more likely to be in your benefit if you don't volunteer the fact that you spilled water all over it.
Also, the way Apple calculates the cost for AppleCare already takes into account dishonest people. I can assure you they have thought of such things, this is not ground breaking news - someone trying to use their warranty for something it was not meant to be used for. Rest assured, AppleCare prices will remain in the general ballpark they are currently in for many years to come.
Unless your life is based on random morals with no connection to reason, then of course, your post is completely valid, but still not sound.
Again, not trying to be mean, but you did call someone an idiot, and he wasn't even attacking you...
----------
Wait, is that what happened? Or were you afraid that's what might have happened?
Because if that ACTUALLY happened, that technician has some explaining to do.
Apple does note if your computer was previously brought in on water damage related issues, by making a note in their appointment logs that gets carried over to later appointments you may or may not make. However, they do so on their computer and it goes into their network, they do NOT put stickers in the computers as far as I'm aware. If it was some third party technician you went to that did that, I would have a chat with him...
Yup. What happened was I went out to buy a toolset to open the Mac up, as was suggested by a friend of mine. When I opened it, there was a piece of masking tape that said "damaged: major water spill" (my post before was incorrect about what it said after i found the piece of tape and read it again), taped right onto the battery. At first I thought nothing of it, but after reading about Apple voiding warranties because of known water damage, I had a feeling this guy was just trying to make sure that I: a) would have to bring up water damage after an apple technician saw the sticker or b) just had it out for me. Maybe I'm going a bit far there, but I couldn't help but feel a bit deceived.
Thanks for the help. It was bottled water, so I guess that makes me feel a bit better. I opened up the laptop and I didn't see any signs of corrosion.
See, that there is not proper technique. When you said water sticker, I misunderstood.
To all my other (many) detractors, I think there's been some misconception that I thought I'd been attacked (before my first post?), or that somehow I was making some crazy claim. I stand for honesty. Telling Apple you don't know why something failed, when you know that you spilled water and it began having problems right away, would be lying. It's fraud. All my comments were directed at the one person I quoted (the first paragraph), and then directly to you, cs11, as the original poster. I hope you can see I wasn't attacking you, but those who decided to advise you to lie to Apple. That's it.
And yes, I overreacted slightly with the idiot comment. I stand by my overall statement, however.
jW
I have dealt with water damaged machines quite a lot when customers have brought them in. It is actually not unusual to see water "pouring" out even after the outside seems perfectly dry. The top case collects water in a very weird way due to the adhesives and plastic pieces used.
And as others have said, there are quite a few LCIs present on the top case, trackpad.
And as others have said, there are quite a few LCIs present on the top case, trackpad.
I guess it sucks that you would actually feel morally obliged to immediately admit fault and say goodbye to a lot of hard earned money to a company that has the number one market capital. Most of us don't have the money to waste nor see any sensical reason to do such a thing, that doesn't mean we're completely amoral.
Agreed. While I know it's better to be honest and open about the situation, I simply cannot afford to pay for repairs or to buy an entirely new laptop. That's just out of the question at this point.
Well, that and if I'm going to pledge devout loyalty to a company, it certainly won't be the one that pays their employees 33 % above minimum wage, and treats them the way apple does... not to mention the whole foxconn thing. Especially considering how ridiculously rich the company really is. Just sayin.. I feel no obligation, and I can't see why anyone would. But I'm not mad if you do, I just don't get it that's all.
There's still enough minerals and ionization in bottled water to make it far and away from the pure water theory.
The thing is you're not giving these people enough credit. You could come in their looking like a complete ass and saying "I have no idea what's wrong with my computer," but anyone who's capable enough to to fix it/replace your lobo is going to realize immediately that either one of the sensors was set off, or the corruption of your lobo is obviously caused by water damage.
At that point, you have two options - you could try and own up and see what kind of deal the now-irritated Genius will actually give you (who can be pretty sympathetic when you didn't lie in their face).
The other option is to scream and shout that you never had any water damage in your computer, they must be lying, and threaten to take it up with the manager. You may even get your way in the end, but that kind of public facade (not to mention the moral implications - Apple may not be the most altruistic company in the world, but I like being on good terms with my local Apple store) is something I would not recommend, as you're only probably going to save $600.
Of course, you could try going to a store not around you and pull the second option off, but I still think you have a moral obligation and hopefully some sense of self-worth.
I didn't discuss the possibility of the Geniuses not figuring out you have water damage, because that possibility's pretty much probabilistically non-existent.
Wow. Just wow. You're actually justifying fraud based on your supposed financial problems.
I'm done here, and Dangerous Theory, I've seen too much crap in your posts so you're becoming my next addition to my ignore list.
OP, please just think through the ethical ramifications of what you're considering. Some things are a little more valuable than saving a few bucks.
jW
It's true, I didn't discuss the possibility of just owning up, and the genius appreciating it, and thus allowing you free parts. That is definitely a possibility, but from my experience (I worked there for a year, and know several geniuses personally still) it is much more likely that they will not see any tripped sensors than them giving parts away because you were honest.
I'm not going to say I haven't seen it happen, because it's happened to me (they were my friends though), but it is VERY unlikely that they will help you just because you were honest.
Also, definitely not recommending making an ass of yourself in the store, as I'd be mortified if I did something like that and would not suggest anyone to do it. Although, it is a sure fired way to get what you want - MUCH more likely to get help, as Apple Managers (depending on who) are usually very accomodating people.
All that being said, I appreciate and respect all the separate opinions, but for my money (and I am a gambling man), I'd go with playing dumb and being charismatic any day of the week. Those were the kind of people I used to help, the ones who WANTED my help. Even if they didn't mean it, if they seemed sincere and needed assistance, I was much more likely to lend a *helping* hand.
Edit: Phones on the other hand, are a completely different story. Those they will give away for free, even if sensors are tripped. But those aren't geniuses, they are just specialists that do "handheld appointments". They are literally just trained to appease customers wishes almost. And most of them are willing to give replacements left right and center if you're honest with them. So there's both sides of the coin, computers are more complex so I noticed less of that on their end.
Still though, if you do get free parts from a genius just because you were honest, you are allowing them to violate the terms of the warranty on their end. Is that not just as morally irreprehensible? I don't see how that is any more justified. So I don't think that can really be an argument for getting free parts that way either. I realize you didn't address that (morality of tricking apple), but I was just commenting on an earlier discussion.
Last edited:
Lol, as if you needed to post that you're going to ignore me. Nobody cares. I stated my opinion and what I know full well the majority of us would do (and do do in many situations). You can dress it up all ugly and call it fraud, but it's just common sense to most of us who cannot afford to fritter away our cash. There are so many worse things to complain about in the world. Hey ho, such as life. Whatever appeases your conscience.
Oh, I personally think it's morally wrong to lie at the Genius bar, but I'm not the sort of person who likes trying to force my morals on other people - just more an FYI, than anything.
For the record, I did get water in my MBP (outside any form of warranty), and went to the Genius bar. The guy who I met with had helped me a few times by replacing faulty batteries and I really didn't feel like trying to "pull one over" on him. So I owned up. It cost me about $600, don't get me wrong, but if I had to do it again, I'd definitely do the same thing.
But that's more my own moral code than anything. Definitely not going to hold you to my standards - we've started too many wars that way.
But good luck with whatever you do.
Oh, I personally think it's morally wrong to lie at the Genius bar, but I'm not the sort of person who likes trying to force my morals on other people - just more an FYI, than anything.
For the record, I did get water in my MBP (outside any form of warranty), and went to the Genius bar. The guy who I met with had helped me a few times by replacing faulty batteries and I really didn't feel like trying to "pull one over" on him. So I owned up. It cost me about $600, don't get me wrong, but if I had to do it again, I'd definitely do the same thing.
But that's more my own moral code than anything. Definitely not going to hold you to my standards - we've started too many wars that way.
But good luck with whatever you do.
Well, I appreciate not trying to force morals, but you were alone in that category, as there was a lot of that going around, and I just wanted to clear up why I didn't think we should be having moral arguments.
And if morality is taken out of the picture, I think we did a pretty good job of laying out all options for the OP to select from, and then let her choose her stance.
That's all I was trying to accomplish. OP any news?
I am not a lawyer (and definitely not versed in the local laws of wherever OP lives), but I would guess that lying for the purpose of some kind of material gain could possibly be a crime. Of course, in this particular case the worst that could happen is they refuse to fix it for free, I don't see anyone actually pressing any kinds of charges. But overall, I personally think encouraging someone online to commit fraud or any other unlawful activity is never a good idea.
First and foremost, it's on the internet - once you post it, it sticks. It sticks and it has your name on it. You may think that a funny little nickname makes you anonymous, but a moderately skilled person with a bit of motivation and time could probably figure out who you really are surprisingly easy. Why blackmail yourself?
Second, not everyone is very good at lying and pulling tricks like that. I find that people who are fairly good at it usually come up with the idea themselves. Those that have not come up with an idea of defrauding a company on their own are probably better off not trying to do so on someone else's suggestion. It just does not work out well in the long run.
First and foremost, it's on the internet - once you post it, it sticks. It sticks and it has your name on it. You may think that a funny little nickname makes you anonymous, but a moderately skilled person with a bit of motivation and time could probably figure out who you really are surprisingly easy. Why blackmail yourself?
Second, not everyone is very good at lying and pulling tricks like that. I find that people who are fairly good at it usually come up with the idea themselves. Those that have not come up with an idea of defrauding a company on their own are probably better off not trying to do so on someone else's suggestion. It just does not work out well in the long run.
Hey, that's exactly what I was trying to say! BTW, here's the technical definition, it's almost exactly what you described:
Sound familiar?
jW
I totally agree fraud is wrong, but is it really fraud to not want to predjudice the technicians view beforehand? I agree it looks likely the water caused the issue, but would a competent technician not immediately spot that as the reason?
I do agree that I wouldn't feel totally right about witholding the info, but surely they going to see water damage as the only option the second its in their mind.... no?
Therefore if being non-predjudicial is the intention, then while it may technically be a form of deception it could be argued that its neither wrongful or criminal...
If you look in just about every electronic device today you will find small stickers with a line on them. These are water detection stickers. If they are missing or change from what they originally looked like, there is no doubt about the system getting wet.
Sorry, you just can't get around the issue.
As for damage, I've had plenty of things get wet that were fixed through different methods.
First I left my coffee roaster (gene cafe if you are curious) on the deck after a roast to keep the smoke outside. Then went on vacation for a week after forgetting it was there, plugged in. Came back and it was full of water and the motor was stuck spinning. Poured it out, then used isopropyl alcohol as a cleaning/drying agent on the electrical circuits. The relays had enough corrosion that they were stuck "open" (or at least the dirt allowed power through to the motor, making it spin.)
Two days later sitting in the open, good to go.
My cat barfed on a very expensive amp. Cleaned up similarly to the above but had to replace a few fuses.
Phones, same.
My old 2006 (or was it 2005? cant remember) MBP had soda spilled on, in and around it. Alcohol cleaned up the logic board and memory connectors. Hard drive was dry fortunately, as was the cd drive. Keyboard was a write off and ebay came to the rescue.
Playbook (blackberry thing) had coffee spilled on it. Used water, to clean it up since I didn't have alcohol available at the time. Used a fan to dry off the circuits, works great.
Camera? Nope, that on the other hand, is dead. Had sea water dripped on it the one time I had it out of it's underwater case. I was inside so it should have remained dry, but someone put a wet shirt above it on a hanger. Flash capacitors and sea water - dead camera no matter what you do.
As for the rice thing? Sorry, doesn't work unless the rice is very fresh. If it has been open to the air for any length of time, the "dry" rice will start to balance out the humidity internally with the surrounding air making it no better than leaving it out and much worse than using a fan. If the rice is in an air tight bag when you get it, maybe, but it is a stretch. People put rice in salt, but it doesn't help the salt to stay clump free. It does, however, help break up the clumps a bit when you shake it.
Use alcohol to help disperse the water then a fan to dry everything. Some things are damaged by alcohol, so this isn't a perfect solution and you have to be very careful.
Sorry, you just can't get around the issue.
As for damage, I've had plenty of things get wet that were fixed through different methods.
First I left my coffee roaster (gene cafe if you are curious) on the deck after a roast to keep the smoke outside. Then went on vacation for a week after forgetting it was there, plugged in. Came back and it was full of water and the motor was stuck spinning. Poured it out, then used isopropyl alcohol as a cleaning/drying agent on the electrical circuits. The relays had enough corrosion that they were stuck "open" (or at least the dirt allowed power through to the motor, making it spin.)
Two days later sitting in the open, good to go.
My cat barfed on a very expensive amp. Cleaned up similarly to the above but had to replace a few fuses.
Phones, same.
My old 2006 (or was it 2005? cant remember) MBP had soda spilled on, in and around it. Alcohol cleaned up the logic board and memory connectors. Hard drive was dry fortunately, as was the cd drive. Keyboard was a write off and ebay came to the rescue.
Playbook (blackberry thing) had coffee spilled on it. Used water, to clean it up since I didn't have alcohol available at the time. Used a fan to dry off the circuits, works great.
Camera? Nope, that on the other hand, is dead. Had sea water dripped on it the one time I had it out of it's underwater case. I was inside so it should have remained dry, but someone put a wet shirt above it on a hanger. Flash capacitors and sea water - dead camera no matter what you do.
As for the rice thing? Sorry, doesn't work unless the rice is very fresh. If it has been open to the air for any length of time, the "dry" rice will start to balance out the humidity internally with the surrounding air making it no better than leaving it out and much worse than using a fan. If the rice is in an air tight bag when you get it, maybe, but it is a stretch. People put rice in salt, but it doesn't help the salt to stay clump free. It does, however, help break up the clumps a bit when you shake it.
Use alcohol to help disperse the water then a fan to dry everything. Some things are damaged by alcohol, so this isn't a perfect solution and you have to be very careful.
Besides the possible fraud discussion, I'd like to direct the attention to the fact that the machine may not even be water damaged. The Tech put a piece of tape in the computer to possibly prevent others (Apple) for covering the machine. The tech may have been acting off of the claim from the OP that it 'may' be water damaged.
Now that the OP opened the machine and saw no visible obvious damage (which is very easy to see), I feel there is a good possibility that there may be no damage and the tech is trying to make an easy few hundred dollars. If the machine is operable, I'd say take it to Apple, as you are doing. I'd tell the Genius of the situation, that you don't think it got any water in it, but that water was spilled nearby and you wanted it checked on. Just say your nervous.
That's the honest truth. You don't think it go water damaged and you just want to play it safe.
Now that the OP opened the machine and saw no visible obvious damage (which is very easy to see), I feel there is a good possibility that there may be no damage and the tech is trying to make an easy few hundred dollars. If the machine is operable, I'd say take it to Apple, as you are doing. I'd tell the Genius of the situation, that you don't think it got any water in it, but that water was spilled nearby and you wanted it checked on. Just say your nervous.
That's the honest truth. You don't think it go water damaged and you just want to play it safe.
That's exactly what I think. I'll be taking it in tomorrow and i'll explain the situation to him. Will update you guys on what happens.
Here is my thing, you are just taking it in to find out if anything is wrong. Visually, you see no damage and any immediate problems have since gone away. My thought, take it in and just don't volunteer info about the water. If they see damage linked back to water, tell them about the incident. These aren't people to manipulate for better deals.
Again, I would highly suggest not disclosing the water damage. Not to defraud the company but to legitimately find out if there is anything wrong. I don't pretend to know their company policy but big businesses are usually the same, save money where you can and that includes voided warranties. So if they come back with problems that could be related to the water, fess up. Otherwise, just go in to see what they find.
Again, I would highly suggest not disclosing the water damage. Not to defraud the company but to legitimately find out if there is anything wrong. I don't pretend to know their company policy but big businesses are usually the same, save money where you can and that includes voided warranties. So if they come back with problems that could be related to the water, fess up. Otherwise, just go in to see what they find.
Hey everyone. So I had an appointment with the genius and great news. He told me there's no signs of water damage at all. How can two technicians be so far apart on a diagnosis? I did forewarn him that there was a minor accident involving water and he fully understood. Anyways, he checked it all out for me and he's going to keep it overnight to run extra tests, but he said I have nothing to worry about. Going to call the campus technician and ask him how he came to that conclusion, and possibly ask for my money back.