Need G3 Recommendations

[Project Alice]

Sorry for the brevity of my earlier post - kiddos were climbing all over me lol and it was all I could get out one handed with a 3 year old on my head. You can use graphiccelerator to flash an old ATI card llike a 9000 or 9200 to a Mac rom in OSX environment - no need to use a secondary machine. Supposedly, as Ive heard through the grapevine, this is the easiest way to flash an ATI card like a 9200. Link below.

Graphiccelerator | ROM Editing tool for Mac OSX

Thomas Perrier's softwares.

thomas.perrier.name

You can find non-mac edition pci 9200s on ebay pretty cheaply - round about $20-30.

Yes, I meant that nvidia cards need a PC. ATI cards can usually be flashed on Mac OS X.

I have purchased four 9200s and all of them have been unsuccessful. After doing research, only a few of the 9200s have a writable eeprom. 9200s are cheap, but it seems to be like winning the lottery to find one that will flash to mac. One of them would flash, but the ROM didn't work. I tried every ROM on themacelite for the 9200.

 

[bunnspecial]

For WiFi-there is a Motorola PCI card that uses the same chipset as the Airport Extreme cards used in later G4s and all G5s. Under 10.4.11, it gives you the same functionality, which means 802.11g speeds and support for WPA2 with some more modern encryption(I can still connected to the enterprise networks at work with these cards). As anyone who has ever done aftermarket upgrades on Macs know, these sort of things are often either plug and play with no set-up required, or you're in for a world of hurt making them work. This particular Motorola card falls into the former category, and if you plug it into a PCI slot, it's recognized natively as an Airport Extreme card with no other set up other than connecting to your WiFi network.

I don't have the Motorola p/n handy for this particular card, but I have a bunch of them around and have been installing them in G4s in particular for years. At one time, I was paying $10-20 each for them on Ebay. I haven't bought one, or even gone looking in several years, which is why I don't have it handy.

For a G4 upgrade-bear in mind that you will need a firmware tool to "unlock" G4 support in the B&W. Interestingly enough, the as-shipped firmware supported G4s, but one of the OS 9 upgrades(either 9.1 or 9.2.1) requires/will install a firmware upgrade that locks out G4 support. A few years ago, I acquired one still running its original OS 8.5.5 install, which in retrospect I should have left alone(or at least dumped the firmware)-in upgrading to 9.2.2 I had to upgrade the firmware.

Also, I suggest avoiding the plentiful and inexpensive Yikes! sourced G4s, which in my experience can be buggy. Sonnets in the 500mhz range are often inexpensive, and tend to be plug and play. Many CPU ugprades will require you to play with the jumpers on the LoBo, which are were shipped in a solid block under a big "warranty void if removed" sticker. Some of these jumpers control the bus speed, which you don't really want to mess with unless you have a good reason(some CPU upgrades, like the 800mhz+ Sonnets, require you to). You can do some things like mild overclocking, however, even with the stock CPU by changing jumpers around. The jumpers used to set things like master-slave on IDE drives are too big-you need small ones, which are sometimes called "SCSI jumpers". At one time, I bought a bunch for a little of nothing from China-I need to buy more as I've used and given away enough that I'm nearly out.

 

[amedias]

Have you considered Ethernet over powerlines adapters?

Stick one down by the router, one upstairs/wherever and you’ll be getting a solid 100-200Mbps over everything but the worst wiring.

You can also the plug a switch in or use a EoPL adapter with multiple ports and have nice reliable connections to other machines as well.

Wireless is great, except for when it’s not ;-) I try and avoid it for any machine that is not mobile.

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

For WiFi-there is a Motorola PCI card that uses the same chipset as the Airport Extreme cards used in later G4s and all G5s. Under 10.4.11, it gives you the same functionality, which means 802.11g speeds and support for WPA2 with some more modern encryption(I can still connected to the enterprise networks at work with these cards). As anyone who has ever done aftermarket upgrades on Macs know, these sort of things are often either plug and play with no set-up required, or you're in for a world of hurt making them work. This particular Motorola card falls into the former category, and if you plug it into a PCI slot, it's recognized natively as an Airport Extreme card with no other set up other than connecting to your WiFi network.

I don't have the Motorola p/n handy for this particular card, but I have a bunch of them around and have been installing them in G4s in particular for years. At one time, I was paying $10-20 each for them on Ebay. I haven't bought one, or even gone looking in several years, which is why I don't have it handy.

For a G4 upgrade-bear in mind that you will need a firmware tool to "unlock" G4 support in the B&W. Interestingly enough, the as-shipped firmware supported G4s, but one of the OS 9 upgrades(either 9.1 or 9.2.1) requires/will install a firmware upgrade that locks out G4 support. A few years ago, I acquired one still running its original OS 8.5.5 install, which in retrospect I should have left alone(or at least dumped the firmware)-in upgrading to 9.2.2 I had to upgrade the firmware.

Also, I suggest avoiding the plentiful and inexpensive Yikes! sourced G4s, which in my experience can be buggy. Sonnets in the 500mhz range are often inexpensive, and tend to be plug and play. Many CPU ugprades will require you to play with the jumpers on the LoBo, which are were shipped in a solid block under a big "warranty void if removed" sticker. Some of these jumpers control the bus speed, which you don't really want to mess with unless you have a good reason(some CPU upgrades, like the 800mhz+ Sonnets, require you to). You can do some things like mild overclocking, however, even with the stock CPU by changing jumpers around. The jumpers used to set things like master-slave on IDE drives are too big-you need small ones, which are sometimes called "SCSI jumpers". At one time, I bought a bunch for a little of nothing from China-I need to buy more as I've used and given away enough that I'm nearly out.

Mine had the stock 8.6.... I never officially upgraded. I just stuck a drive with 9.2.2 already installed. Did I screw up, or did I bypass the firmware update?
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Have you considered Ethernet over powerlines adapters?

Stick one down by the router, one upstairs/wherever and you’ll be getting a solid 100-200Mbps over everything but the worst wiring.

You can also the plug a switch in or use a EoPL adapter with multiple ports and have nice reliable connections to other machines as well.

Wireless is great, except for when it’s not ;-) I try and avoid it for any machine that is not mobile.

I’m telling you there’s no way. My house was built in 1911 and the walls are just too thick to run cabling.

 

[MagicBoy]

How can your walls be too thick to use the existing power wiring? 🤦‍♂️

 

[amedias]

Mine had the stock 8.6.... I never officially upgraded. I just stuck a drive with 9.2.2 already installed. Did I screw up, or did I bypass the firmware update?
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I’m telling you there’s no way. My house was built in 1911 and the walls are just too thick to run cabling.

I think you misunderstand (mine was built in 1923 BTW, it’s all brick and survived the blitz, still wouldn’t stop me running cat 6 if I wasn’t lazy), Ethernet over powerlines uses the *existing* power cabling in your house as the carrier. You just plug in an adapter to the wall socket, another one (or many) in another socket elsewhere in the house and they take a few seconds to sync up and then, magic, Ethernet!

They’re just a small box about the size of a standard charger for a tablet (maybe a wee bit bigger) and most present a single RJ45 socket for you to plug into. Some models are a bit bigger and have a switch built in, mine are all 4-port. You can even get them with power pass through so you don’t lose the use of the power socket.

You’ll not get gig speed but a few hundred meg is easy, although newer ones are better and some are rated high under perfect conditions

See here for some examples

 

[bunnspecial]

WiFi bridges are also an option for computers without built in WiFi.

Many times, an old router(who doesn't have one or two...or a dozen...lying around?) can be configured as one.

If you have another Mac in the same room that does work on your WiFi and has an ethernet port, it's also easy to turn it into a bridge.

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

I think you misunderstand (mine was built in 1923 BTW, it’s all brick and survived the blitz, still wouldn’t stop me running cat 6 if I wasn’t lazy), Ethernet over powerlines uses the *existing* power cabling in your house as the carrier. You just plug in an adapter to the wall socket, another one (or many) in another socket elsewhere in the house and they take a few seconds to sync up and then, magic, Ethernet!

They’re just a small box about the size of a standard charger for a tablet (maybe a wee bit bigger) and most present a single RJ45 socket for you to plug into. Some models are a bit bigger and have a switch built in, mine are all 4-port. You can even get them with power pass through so you don’t lose the use of the power socket.

You’ll not get gig speed but a few hundred meg is easy, although newer ones are better and some are rated high under perfect conditions

See here for some examples

My bad. I did misunderstand. I assumed I’d have to run cables. Sorry, I rent so I’m terrified to do anything large and piss off my landlord. Used to have a router upstairs till a squirrel chewed the cables outside. He has yet to replace them. That was 5 years ago....

 

[1042686]

Sounds like a powerline networking set up is ideal for you then. It’s a purchase that can move with you, benefitting your pocketbook vs your landlord and requires zero modification to the property.

 

[amedias]

Yeah definitely recommend looking into them, they’re not expensive and pretty much fit and forget, my current set are nearly a decade old as I bought them when we moved in to this house. Only had to rest them once in all that time!

 

[weckart]

Powerlines only work well if your power points are on the same ring otherwise... Never worked well for me, even when the router was in the next room and I disliked the heat they generated.

More expensive but worth considering is a mesh network. You can run a switch from the nearest node straight into your Macs. No structural work needed and should get better speeds than from powerlines.

 

[amedias]

What adapters did you use?

I’ve never had issues with heat on any that I’ve installed (which is about a dozen for me over this house and the last one, and another 40-50 for clients).

I’ve got nothing against wireless, we’ve put some huge meshes in covering multi building warehouses for national delivery hubs and they are great, but I’m not a fan of using wireless for static devices unless it’s a necessity.

 

[weckart]

I think they were Gigabyte 500Mbs but pretty much only that on paper. I'm with you on wireless but if you can't take a tool to the infrastructure then this would seem to be a case of necessity.

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

Goodwill delivers again!

I’ve decided for now to use a $2 AirPort Extreme as a range extender and hook up over Ethernet

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

Okay so small update:

I found two IBM Pc’s today that once belonged to my future father in law. He said as long as I copy the hard drives, I can have the hardware.

So I think I might’ve found my CD drive replacement as well as a free 256mb ram stick.

 

[z970]

@Adamscomputerrepair What kind of IBM PCs were they?

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

@Adamscomputerrepair What kind of IBM PCs were they?

ill have to check when I go back home. One is really super old so I’m copying the hard drive then putting a fresh install of DOS 6.11.
A

The other one has a Cyrix 686 in it running Windows 98 (at a snails pace) and has 256mb of Ram. It’s the one I’m possibly parting out seeing as it looks like it was made from scrap parts. I never heard of IBM using a Cyrix processor that’s why I assume it’s a cobbled machine.

 

[weckart]

. I never heard of IBM using a Cyrix processor that’s why I assume it’s a cobbled machine.

Apparently IBM did but only in a few budget models mostly sold outside the US. However IBM did manufacture and sell Cyrix 686 processors so it could have been an "upgrade" that your FFIL did at some stage.

 

[bobesch]

ill have to check when I go back home. One is really super old so I’m copying the hard drive then putting a fresh install of DOS 6.11.
The other one has a Cyrix 686 in it running Windows 98 (at a snails pace) and has 256mb of Ram. It’s the one I’m possibly parting out seeing as it looks like it was made from scrap parts. I never heard of IBM using a Cyrix processor that’s why I assume it’s a cobbled machine.

You'll might have a better performance of Win98 on your PM-G3 within VirtualPC3/os9 ...
And your 2$ AirPortExtreme is a real bargain compared to the Vonets-Wifi2Ethernet-Brigde, I would have recommended! (though that Vonets-thing is not tied to an ethernet-cable and a better solution for a Clamshell etc.)

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

You'll might have a better performance of Win98 on your PM-G3 within VirtualPC3/os9 ...
And your 2$ AirPortExtreme is a real bargain compared to the Vonets-Wifi2Ethernet-Brigde, I would have recommended! (though that Vonets-thing is not tied to an ethernet-cable and a better solution for a Clamshell etc.)

I have no use for Windows 98. I did keep the other machine that runs DOS. It was used as a POS System but strangely enough the Ram was maxed out. So now it’s about to become a DOSBox

 

[1042686]

A1264 AirPort Express via Ethernet is exactly how my BW powermacG3 & my son’s bondi imacG3 are connected in the absence of onboard airport. Not terribly fast but Works well.

I even got mine from the same place although I paid a bit more for mine after shipping.

 

[Adamscomputerrepair]

I’m about to drop kick this G3.

I’ve tried 5 different versions of tiger and I still get the circle cross symbol when trying to boot. I’m losing it. I’m about to say f it and just keep using panther even though I really don’t want to.
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I’m about to drop kick this G3.

I’ve tried 5 different versions of tiger and I still get the circle cross symbol when trying to boot. I’m losing it. I’m about to say f it and just keep using panther even though I really don’t want to.

UPDATE: This G3 doesn’t read any system discs now! I think it might be the disc drive I’m using. I have one more before I break down and take the one out of the iMac G3 that I KNOW works. I’ve done more than I wanted to get a working G3 out of this.

 

[z970]

I’m about to drop kick this G3.

I’ve tried 5 different versions of tiger and I still get the circle cross symbol when trying to boot. I’m losing it.

Yes, this is standard behavior for all owners of B&Ws. In fact, if you do not experience these emotions at least 12 times in one month of handling a Power Mac G3 B&W, you're probably doing something wrong.

I have made the conclusion that this computer simply does not like OS X, period, end of story, case closed. It doesn't go to sleep on any release, memory can be prone to issues in OS X (all versions), it usually (to my experiences) does not play well with a DVD drive, in the process limiting you to Panther (which it also does not like, by the way), it will require you to hit the reset button every time after a FRESH boot before it will start dragging its feet to boot an OS X startup disk, OF multi-boot will often give you a hard time whenever it detects a partition with OS X, etc., etc., etc. ...

Of all things, even Linux is a better fit for this machine than any version of OS 10 available to it. Even OpenBSD will eclipse OS X in terms of compatibility, whereas it at least doesn't falsely panic about bad memory when installed, or have Open Firmware hang and lock over the drive partition tables whenever multi-boot is called up.

Realistically, this machine is happiest on OS 9, it being the only OS I've seen that has gotten sleep mode to properly function, along with every other hardware capability available.

-

But might I suggest changing the machine's hostname to "Sadistic-Smurf" ? You know, to honestly advertise its ... shall we say, user side effects ...

 

[AphoticD]

I once owned a B&W back in about '01. It was an awesome production machine for running Photoshop 6 and Quark Xpress 4... it ran perfectly and never gave me any trouble. Mind you I never updated it past Mac OS 8.6

 

[retta283]

A1264 AirPort Express via Ethernet is exactly how my BW powermacG3 & my son’s bondi imacG3 are connected in the absence of onboard airport. Not terribly fast but Works well.

I even got mine from the same place although I paid a bit more for mine after shipping.

Awesome childhood computer. If I were to have a kid, I'd probably start them out with something similar. No phone until much later on.