Nest Reportedly Working on Cheaper 'Learning Thermostat' to Sell for Under $200

Discussion in 'iOS Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    Nest is in the process of making a cheaper edition of its Nest Learning Thermostat as well as a new line of home security products, according to someone familiar with the company's plans speaking with Bloomberg. Nest is said to be "seeking a bigger share of the connected home market" in its move to make a cheaper version of its flagship thermostat device.

    The cheaper Nest Learning Thermostat would sell for under $200, while the current edition of the device is priced at $249 on the Nest Store. The cheaper model is believed to keep the same temperature learning functionality of the thermostat, but be manufactured with less expensive components and potentially do away with the current version's metal edges.

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    Nest is also said to be developing sensors that will act as expansions to existing thermostat systems, and allow users to control the temperature of specific rooms instead of just the entire home. The cheaper thermostat is predicted to launch by next year.
    An all-new home security alarm system, digital doorbell, and updated indoor camera "are also in the works." The home security system will have a central hub with a keypad that connects to a collection of alarm sensors that users place on windows and doors.

    After being set up, it will act like a normal security system and ring when the home is entered until the right code is entered on the keypad hub. A keyring fob accessory can also be used to initiate and disable the alarm in lieu of typing in a code. Like all of Nest's products, a connected iOS app will allow home owners to disengage the alarm to let specific people into a home when they are away.

    An update to the Nest Indoor Cam could see a way for the camera to identify specific people within its range, according to the person familiar with Nest's plans, who also detailed the company's intention to launch a digital doorbell system with a video camera and face-to-face communication via the mobile app. The home security system is believed to arrive this year, the updated Nest Indoor Cam could launch as soon as this fall, and the digital doorbell is estimated to see a debut sometime in 2018.

    Article Link: Nest Reportedly Working on Cheaper 'Learning Thermostat' to Sell for Under $200
     
  2. Red Oak macrumors regular

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    #2
    Where the hell is HomeKit support? It will never come, which is why I'll have to switch mine out
     
  3. shiseiryu1 macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    Nest would have been so much better off had Google not bought it. What have they created since then?...basically nothing except rebranding Dropcam which wasn't that good of a camera to begin with.

    I'm super disappointed about lack of HomeKit support because it still is the best looking thermostat. The rest look cheap and plasticy in comparison.
     
  4. supremedesigner macrumors 6502a

    supremedesigner

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  5. oneMadRssn macrumors 601

    oneMadRssn

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    #5
    I'm in the market for a wifi programmable thermostat right now. What value does HomeKit add? Other than using Siri (which I never use) what advantage is there to using the HomeKit app as opposed to the Nest app?
     
  6. aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #6
    For me, saying "Hey Siri, lower the upstairs temperature two degrees" is a lot more convenient than having to futz with an app at 2 AM. Don't do it a lot, but it's handy when I need it.

    Assuming Nest completely copies Ecobee's remote sensor idea, you could use their occupancy sensors to trigger HomeKit rules. Turn lights on/off, change the temperature to a certain level while someone is in a certain room (home gym), etc.

    HomeKit isn't an app, it's a foundation used by many apps. Ecobee's native app uses HomeKit, for example. You can use it to create scenes like "Good Morning", which could set your temp to something predefined, turn on certain lights, maybe start coffee brewing.

    Other HomeKit apps (like Apple's Home, or Elgato's Eve) will be able to see/modify that scene. This lets companies (like Ecobee) have control over how they want their app to look and feel, but still let their hardware play with others.
     
  7. imola.zhp macrumors 6502a

    imola.zhp

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    #7
    It adds nothing, absolutely nothing. I got a Nest Gen 2 for Christmas around 2012, we LOVED it. When EcoBee came out with a Homekit thermostat, we switched, we HATED it. Siri rarely understands the most simple of commands, and we found ourselves using the app just like we did with the Nest. Shortly after the Gen 3 Nest came to market so I sold the Ecobee and went back to Nest.

    You really only mess with it when it is new and you are getting it all set up and ready to go, and maybe if you are new to this type of tech you might check it frequently for a few months. After that you basically forget it, which is how I think this type of technology should work. I check our usage about once a week to see if there are any anomalies, other than that it just does its thing in the background of our lives. If you have a family perhaps you might need or want more control, everyone's use case is probably different. We don't have kids, just two mutts and we work a typical M-F 8-5 schedule.

    -----------------------------------

    Pretty sure the Gen 3's already sell for under $200 on eBay everyday. I think I got our Gen 3 on B&H for under $200 around Christmas a few years back.

    That said, I always wondered why they didn't keep making Gen 1 when Gen 2 came out, but at a lower price point, and then why they didn't keep making Gen 2 when Gen 3 came out at a lower price point. Similar to how Apple keeps selling last years phone, but at a cheaper price.
     
  8. peter2 macrumors regular

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    #8
    Unless I can run such a device without a cloud (except one that would run at my server at home), I am not interested. Firstly due to security issues, secondly whenever the vendor decides to shut down the service, customers are f****d. I really don't understand people who buy these forever-vendor-dependent devices.
     
  9. mdelvecchio macrumors 68040

    mdelvecchio

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    #9
    Advantages of HomeKit:

    - incorporating it into your home automation recipes which involve devices from multiple vendors (lighting, locks, doors, etc). these can be geo fenced, timed, or kicked off via siri. Using one automation system is better than two or more, which is the world we'd live in if nobody supported HK like Nest.

    - HomeKit is the most secured of IoT devices, due to authentication and encryption chips.
     
  10. imola.zhp macrumors 6502a

    imola.zhp

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    #10
    You must not have anyone else in your bedroom if you are talking to Siri at 2am, and perhaps the reason why is because you are talking to Siri at 2am.

    Homekit adds NOTHING to a thermostat IMO. Our Nest runs in the background of our life, as it should, it just works, it doesn't have to be monitored. Sometimes to much control is a bad thing, it learns your schedule on its own and just does it own thing.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 8, 2017 ---
    Nest works without an internet connection, it functions just like a regular thermostat in such a condition. You just don't have access to it on your mobile device.
     
  11. peter2 macrumors regular

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    #11
    At least that. Still, I would prefer if I could provide internet accessibility via my own server (e.g. through VPN) if I wished to have internet access. Can you do that with Nest?
     
  12. aristobrat, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017

    aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #12
    Oh please, HomeKit allows for those "cute" Nest integrations that Google creates, like how Nest can turn on your outdoor sprinkler system if it detects a fire in your house.

    It's just that with HomeKit, you get to create the rules.

    It's cool if your needs are simple enough that the predefined stuff Google comes up for you are enough. But for folks wanting to create their own, Nest doesn't currently have a way to accommodate that.

    Sorry Siri doesn't understand you. It's nice to be able to give a quick Siri command when you're driving home at an unexpected time, so the HVAC can be ready for you.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 8, 2017 ---
    AFAIK, none of the major thermostats allow that. If you want to control them via an app (either locally or remotely), the app connects to their servers, which then relay the command to your thermostat (via NAT traversal).
     
  13. gsmornot macrumors 68030

    gsmornot

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    #13
    I have had the opposite experience with the Ecobee3 thermostats. They are fantastic and the main thing that makes them great are the remote sensors. The only thing Homekit really adds for them is seeing everything in one interface like temp and movement. The bulk of the detailed changes you might want to make or the system reports for use are all found in the Ecobee3 app only.

    I do however have Nest Protects because I didn't like what I was seeing with HomeKit enabled smoke detectors. I do wish I could see a simple status in HomeKit but not seeing it is not a deal breaker. Smoke detectors are something you setup and leave until there is an issue. I do really like the night light feature and the nightly promise. I like the battery status and the fact they use AA vs 9V.

    The Nest thermostats do not appeal to me because they lack the remote sensors and also who cares really what the temp is right at the thermostat unless you only have one big room. I also did not like that it used the furnace to charge its internal battery. My Ecobee units use a C wire for constant power without having to fire up the upstairs unit to top off. In turn, my main unit has only needed to run about 3 times in the last 2 months since the temp has been mild. If I had the Nest unit I would not be able to say that.
     
  14. imola.zhp macrumors 6502a

    imola.zhp

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    #14
    Seems a bit paranoid, I don't know, you should ask in a Nest forum. What is the worst that can happen? The government learns the habits of your thermostat? SCARY!
     
  15. keys, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017

    keys macrumors newbie

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    #15
    Ecobee3 w/homekit has additional room sensors that (in a recent new firmware release) allows them to send occupancy and motion triggers to homekit. These are in addition to the normal temperature/occupancy info they previously provided to the thermostat. This allows you to trigger other homekit accessories such as lighting, locks, cameras, etc. simply using the already provided sensors in your thermostat and its room sensors.

    As previously stated, you can also simply create geofences for Scenes or also tell Siri to trigger Scenes to automate your home through the new Home app. For instance, you could say 'goodnight' and turn off your lights, lock your door, set your thermostat to the appropriate temperature, lower the shades, and many other things. If you don't want to use automations or speak to Siri, you can simply use the provided app (or watch app), use the Favorite Scenes section in Control Center of iOSX, or be adventurous and walk up to the thermostat and adjust it there.

    It has taken a little time for homekit to get running, but it is the correct approach for having home automation done in a secure, privacy-focused manner.

    *I owned Nest previously in another home, but it would not work when I moved into a high-rise building with a Daikin heat pump. The Ecobee works great. I continue to be much happier with the Ecobee w/homekit integration. The remote sensors are a great benefit to it. I only measure the temps of the rooms I'm occupying and I save money and stay comfortable. Ecobee has vibrant developer and customer communities online and take feedback seriously.

    For those that may be curious.. the Ecobee doesn't require a C wire to the thermostat itself. It includes a power extender kit that allows you to use the the current wire setup of your old thermostat and then the power extender is placed near your HVAC control board and is wired to the C terminal.
     
  16. Mac 128 macrumors 603

    Mac 128

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    #16
    I would hate doing that. Nest has geofencing, and turns on automatically when my phone re-enter's the zone I've established around my house. Likewise, it automatically goes into Eco mode when I leave. The less I have to speak to Siri, the better. Fortunately with Nest there's no need.
     
  17. mikemch16 macrumors member

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    #17
    I am so frustrated with my two nest cams. I can't wait for a HomeKit compatible replacement to come along. I don't want to pay their ridiculous subscription price and be locked into their ecosystem. Not to mention their app has gotten worse over time and can barely ever show me a stream of my cameras without endlessly buffering (I have a fast close router and it used to work ok).
     
  18. Mac 128 macrumors 603

    Mac 128

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    #18
    When I moved into a house with a modern heat pump system, I went right out and bought a nest thermostat. It's been something of a dissapointment. The geofencing has been somewhat unreliable, the scheduling app is fiddly and difficult to use, I tried to delete scheduled events to rely on geofencing, but the scheduled events keep coming back. I'm always adjusting the thermostat and it doesn't seem to be learning. And it somehow manages not to show the current temperature on the main screen.

    The setup was unbelievably painful. My understanding is that the gen 3 has BT, but if that's true, why didn't the app connect via BT to allow initial setup via the app, so I didn't have to dial in a bunch of lengthy usernames and passwords? Then, it has a motion sensor of some sort, perhaps even a camera? So why can't I get motion alerts via the app?

    My biggest complaint is that I bought it mainly because it would heat and cool automatically. While it does this, it's far more complicated than I had hoped. My goal was to put in a target temperature and then the system would either heat or cool to maintain that temperature. Unfortunately, it forces me to set a range of 3 degrees apart, so my optimal cooling temperature and heating temperature can never be the same. If I set the perfect heating temp, I have to live with a cooling temp 3 degrees warmer than I'd like and vice-versa. This is really unacceptable, at it forces me to constantly adjust both the heat and cool temps. So I hope a software update will address this in the near future.

    In concept this is really fantastic technology, in practice, it seems way more complicated than it needs to be for the price.
     
  19. NightFox macrumors 68020

    NightFox

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    #19
    Be sure to check out tado° - allows a lot more control than Nest and also uses geolocation to work out when you're out (turns the heating off) and when you're on the way home (pre-heats your house so it's up to temperature when you walk through the door).
     
  20. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #20
    Maybe Nest should just take the current one, put it in a different case, maybe jettison a useful something out of it, add a gimmicky something inside of it and, most importantly, raise the price (& profitability) by calling it the Nest Edition. ;)
     
  21. imola.zhp macrumors 6502a

    imola.zhp

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    #21
    If you don't want the auto-scheduling feature, turn it off. Open the app, go to the gear icon, select "Nest Sense," select "Auto-Schedule" and turn it off. If it still tries to learn, call customer service, something is wrong, you can make the Nest as dumb or as smart as you want. You can have it learn your schedule, you can set your own schedule or your can turn scheduling off completely.

    Geofencing hasn't been an issue for us. I cant recall one time arriving home to an unconditioned house, so I think it must be working ok for us.

    The temp on the screen is the set point of the thermostat, the current temp will show up as a smaller number on the display. Some people like this, some don't. Ours is in the middle of the house and I cant remember the last time I looked at it, as I have stated before we just forget it, it just works in the background of our life. Perhaps our use case is very different than yours, and if so, then there might be a better product out there for you.

    Wait, I did have trouble with the Gen2 we had initially, it did not like our old time capsule. I called customer service and tried this and tried that and it would work and then it wouldn't. Eventually I upgraded to the latest time capsule and all of those connection issues went away.
     
  22. aristobrat, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017

    aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #22
    There is no need to speak to Siri. Ecobee (and other HomeKit products) support geofencing, just like Nest does.

    The issue I have with geofencing knowing when I'm near my house is that depending on the weather outside, the HVAC needs more time to recover (if I'm coming home unexpectedly). So I can still walk into a house that's not at the temperature I want it to be at (if I come home unexpectedly).

    Or, I can give a simple Siri command on my way home, far enough out, so that my house will have enough time to be recovered BY the time I'm unexpectedly home. To me, that's more convenient that futzing around with the Ecobee app to do the same thing. My Ecobees themselves run silently in the background, like they should, so navigating through that app isn't muscle-memory.
     
  23. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #23
    Anyone that thought Apple's acquisition of Beats was poor would bow their head in shame at the 3 billion Google paid for Nest.

    A cheaper thermostat is nice, I have a Honeywell and it works just fine with HomeKit. I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time and effort in setting up sensors. A contractor told me that even if you have a high efficiency furnace you have low efficiency ducts. Hopefully in my next home i'll be able to build it and i'll go with mini-splits and radiant under floor heating. No forced air, no ducts, no dust.

    As for Nest...they used to be thought of as a leader but every one of their products can easily be replaced by something else capable.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 8, 2017 ---
    I've about given up on all of these cloud cameras. I'm just going to get up in attic and drop BNC cables and go with a wired camera/NVR setup.

    Cloud subscriptions are just there to keep you entangled with their devices. It should be an option...not a mandate.
     
  24. aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #24
    To me, the remote sensors are nice. Run the HVAC until the occupied rooms average out to the set temperature, not until the temperature of the hallway where the thermostat sits hits the set temperature.

    I originally had a Nest in a two-story house that had a single HVAC system. The lack of additional sensors (or BT connectivity) sucked. My roommate worked from home in an upstairs loft, so he never walked by the Nest in the downstairs hallway. So the Nest kept thinking the house was unoccupied and shutting things down. Had to turn off the auto-away feature, which was half of the reason I wanted the Nest back then.

    I'm truly glad to hear that Nest is considering adding remote sensors, although it sounds like they're going to be bundled with smart vents (if they're talking about controlling individual room temperatures). Smart vents are going to be tricky...
     
  25. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #25
    Yes i've been checking out Keen and EcoVent for smart vents. They seem to work albeit not without their fair share of connectivity issues.

    I'll try some homekit sensors but my home is large and tricky to keep everything balanced.
     

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