Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Vado

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 30, 2016
139
157
Livingston, United Kingdom
After 2+years of waiting Netatmo have finally said they can't get HKSV to work on the Smart Video Doorbell.


To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. I feel like I've bought an expensive turkey of a product and it's been a horrible lesson to learn, don't buy on a promise.

I appreciate the well written explanation by Netatmo. However the whole situation has been ridiculous and poorly handled in my view. I've never seen a company have so little regard for their user base.

Their own forums for the Smart Video Doorbell - https://forum.netatmo.com/viewforum.php?f=143 is just littered with threads of unhappy owners and I've never witnessed any meaningful interaction from Netatmo staff on it.

If Netatmo had been more transparent and more community minded from the start a lot of this ill-will and frustration towards them could've easily been avoided.

I will be enquiring and pursuing Netatmo CS towards a partial refund as HKSV support was a major selling point of the Doorbell to me.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Itinj24

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,445
6,107
England
I have been monitoring this ludicrous and unacceptable situation since they initially announce this piece of **** doorbell. I said way back then, that it would never have secure video and sadly it would seem that I am right.

I feel very sorry for people that bought into this garbage. I hope Netatmo are taken to the cleaners for this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vado and Itinj24

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
I remember when this doorbell was announced. Believe it was before HKSV was even announced. I was waiting for it for a good while because it was the first of its kind. A native HomeKit video doorbell. Checking tech sites everyday waiting, hoping for an update to when it will go on sale. Think it was about 2 years after the announcement that it was finally on sale for the US market. In that time, Logitech almost quietly released their version. A couple others that were either way expensive or nothing special (Robin, Yobi), then WeMo and, well that’s about it.

The point of my story is, I blame Apple just as much as anyone else. Their extremely stringent certification and hardware requirements are what I believe to be the reason why we’re lacking options with HomeKit accessories. I got burned with a Ring doorbell in the past when they announced HomeKit support. Never again do I make a purchase based on a promise.

Anyways, I feel terrible for those who purchased this doorbell but I’m glad that I didn’t fall for the trap. I’m pretty sure it didn’t take the engineers at Netatmo this long to figure this out. Customers were undoubtedly getting stringed along.

So far, I’ve tried the Logitech view doorbell- many offline occurrences with the heat (which looks like the same issue Netatmo has run into. Hard you can blame them for the empty promise but not for the hardware since their doorbell was being tested before HKSV). Also Logitech’s obnoxious night light LED strip and very narrow FOV didn’t work for me.
I tried the WeMo- awful night vision. Can’t see beyond my front steps. Just a vast wasteland of darkness if you didn’t know what my front yard looked like. The FOV is very wide, maybe a little too wide which I liked but it missed a ton of motion alerts and recordings. For a while, the live stream would even be frozen. I can hear what’s going on but the video stream was just frozen.
Best so far- Google Nest Hello with Starling. Very snappy, never missed a beat, 24/7 recording (with Aware plan) tons of automation possibilities as each person in the recognition got their own motion tile in HomeKit… way too much to list and Starling has been. An absolute gem. Only issue is no HKSV

FF to yesterday, picked up the new Google Nest doorbell wired version which I have yet to install. The great thing is, Starling now offers HKSV for the newer Nest cameras, this one included. I can’t comment on it yet but if it’s anything like the original Nest doorbell, this will be a home run.

There is always Matter to look forward to, when they do eventual include cameras. The future for home automation is bright. Try to enjoy what you have now as it is (or replace it with something else) and sit back and watch it unfold. Hopefully soon enough, we won’t be able to decide because of the tons of options available to us.
 

TonyC28

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2009
2,779
7,009
USA
The point of my story is, I blame Apple just as much as anyone else. Their extremely stringent certification and hardware requirements are what I believe to be the reason why we’re lacking options with HomeKit accessories.
I think we need to start talking about this. Are the requirements too much? Obviously security and privacy are important but there must be some trade-off. There has to be some reason why the HKSV doorbells we have seen are not so great and feel like compromises. And I think you and I are especially bitter because we’ve seen what’s possible with Nest and the Starling.
 

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
I think we need to start talking about this. Are the requirements too much? Obviously security and privacy are important but there must be some trade-off. There has to be some reason why the HKSV doorbells we have seen are not so great and feel like compromises. And I think you and I are especially bitter because we’ve seen what’s possible with Nest and the Starling.
I fully understand that when I’m using tech of any sort, I’m compromising somewhat on privacy and security. But if it’s so strict that it makes the particular device unusable, then what’s the point? It’s clear as day, the engineers at Starling were able to figure it out because they’re bypassing (or whatever it is they do) the strict Apple requirements through software.

The friggen video doorbell has been around for at least 10 years. Why are we seeing such limited and poor options for HomeKit? I think I read somewhere a couple years back that one of the companies told Apple to kick rocks when trying to get their device HomeKit certified because it was such a nightmare. Might’ve even been an email from a customer support. Can’t remember. Why does Eufy make HomeKit cameras but their video doorbell is not?

A few companies I can name off the top of my head that announced HomeKit support but never followed through: SimpliSafe, Ring, Blue by ADT (was really looking forward to this one)

I get it, I went with the wrong company for wanting more of an open source solution, but damn when (that’s a big when) everything works, the Apple ecosystem is just sooo good.
 

TonyC28

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2009
2,779
7,009
USA
I fully understand that when I’m using tech of any sort, I’m compromising somewhat on privacy and security. But if it’s so strict that it makes the particular device unusable, then what’s the point? It’s clear as day, the engineers at Starling were able to figure it out because they’re bypassing (or whatever it is they do) the strict Apple requirements through software.

The friggen video doorbell has been around for at least 10 years. Why are we seeing such limited and poor options for HomeKit? I think I read somewhere a couple years back that one of the companies told Apple to kick rocks when trying to get their device HomeKit certified because it was such a nightmare. Might’ve even been an email from a customer support. Can’t remember. Why does Eufy make HomeKit cameras but their video doorbell is not?

A few companies I can name off the top of my head that announced HomeKit support but never followed through: SimpliSafe, Ring, Blue by ADT (was really looking forward to this one)

I get it, I went with the wrong company for wanting more of an open source solution, but damn when (that’s a big when) everything works, the Apple ecosystem is just sooo good.
That ecosystem is what makes it tough, and frustrating. I am neck-deep in the Apple ecosystem and can't even imagine getting out. I have too many things, both hardware and services, to pick up and move.

Unfortunately the one thing we need Apple to do right now is the one thing they won't because it's not a money-maker, and that's to give a s--- about HomeKit.
 

Vado

macrumors regular
Original poster
Dec 30, 2016
139
157
Livingston, United Kingdom
I have been monitoring this ludicrous and unacceptable situation since they initially announce this piece of **** doorbell. I said way back then, that it would never have secure video and sadly it would seem that I am right.

I feel very sorry for people that bought into this garbage. I hope Netatmo are taken to the cleaners for this.
Well this was the reply to my tweet to Netatmo Support. No real surprise just their typical copy and paste response.


I really soo think there is blame on both sides here. The hardware requirements to implement HKSV are obviously to strict and are causing overheating issues in something as small as a doorbell, as seen with the Logitech.

I'm very tempted to go down the route of a Nest doorbell and use Scrypted to get it up and running as I already use HomeBridge.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Itinj24

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Well this was the reply to my tweet to Netatmo Support. No real surprise just their typical copy and paste response.


I really soo think there is blame on both sides here. The hardware requirements to implement HKSV are obviously to strict and are causing overheating issues in something as small as a doorbell, as seen with the Logitech.

I'm very tempted to go down the route of a Nest doorbell and use Scrypted to get it up and running as I already use HomeBridge.
I used the original Nest Hello with Starling. Better than any garbage native HomeKit doorbell out there and you’ll probably have the same experience with HomeBridge. I don’t have time to tinker so I went with a plug and play option.

The folks over at Starling really know what they’re doing and the newer Nest Cams even support HKSV via Starling. Just wish Starling expanded beyond Nest products.

I have the new Nest wired Doorbell that I have yet to install.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,445
6,107
England
Can you point me in the right direction to read up on these Nest/Starling HKSV doorbells please? I’m in if they work in the UK!! Cheers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Itinj24

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Can you point me in the right direction to read up on these Nest/Starling HKSV doorbells please? I’m in if they work in the UK!! Cheers.

They have an iOS App now too so don’t need the website to manage it.


It’s a tiny box that connects to power and network via Ethernet. It goes beyond just cameras. They even got the Nest Hubs integrated with AirPlay 2.

Not sure if they’re available in the UK but give them a shout. They are very responsive and care about their customers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,445
6,107
England

They have an iOS App now too so don’t need the website to manage it.


It’s a tiny box that connects to power and network via Ethernet.

Not sure if they’re available in the UK but give them a shout. They are very responsive and care about their customers.

Fantastic, thanks. So you are saying that it fully integrates with HKSV and will store videos like normal native HKSV cameras?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Itinj24

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Fantastic, thanks. So you are saying that it fully integrates with HKSV and will store videos like normal native HKSV cameras?
The older cameras, including the original Nest Hello, do not. They have a list of the ones that do. Probably a hardware limitation. I haven’t installed my new 2022 wired doorbell yet but according to Starling it works. This Hub get tons of updates too. They’re very active.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Fantastic, thanks. So you are saying that it fully integrates with HKSV and will store videos like normal native HKSV cameras?
And just as I opened the app to check for you, another update. Constantly adding features. They included a virtual switch for home and away that can be used in automations and also added a weather tile for your area to be used for automations.

1666561048732.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Here’s the list of cams that support HKSV. Forgot to mention you do need a Nest Aware subscription but I wanted to anyway for the 24/7 recording.

1666561397578.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,445
6,107
England
No worries. @TonyC28 can tell ya as well. It’s been a fantastic purchase.

Hi. Does this setup support Apples native HomeKit face recognition and two way audio? I’ve just watched a review of the new wired Nest doorbell and it was very positive but it’s a shame they lowered the resolution. That wouldn’t put me off though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Itinj24

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Hi. Does this setup support Apples native HomeKit face recognition and two way audio? I’ve just watched a review of the new wired Nest doorbell and it was very positive but it’s a shame they lowered the resolution. That wouldn’t put me off though.
It should technically work like any other HomeKit camera so I’d say yes but support at Starling should be a better source. Their customer support is top notch! When I had the original Nest Hello set up, that was before HomeKit’s facial recognition. What’s even better, it supports Google’s facial recognition through the Aware subscription. Not sure how it’s going to work with the new HomeKit interface but with the old one, when you add a familiar face in the Nest app, it showed up as an actual tile in HomeKit which was available to automations. I had an automation to unlock my front door when it recognized my face and it worked flawlessly. Same with packages.

Yes to two way audio.

In all fairness, they lowered the price of the doorbell but according to reviews, it doesn’t look like there’s a discernible difference in video quality. Google has always been known for their excellent image processing software which was raved about in the Pixel phones.

I’m currently having an issue installing my doorbell so I haven’t tested the new one yet. The LED is indicating that it’s not getting sufficient lower. My transformer is likely the culprit because it worked with a plug in 24V transformer. I bought this house two years ago and been searching for the doorbell transformer ever since. I’m guessing it’s hidden behind drywall lol 🤦‍♂️

Give me a bit and I’ll plug it in to power and set it up that way so I can better answer your questions with regards to the new HomeKit interface and the new doorbell. In the meantime, can’t emphasize any more how great Starling customer support has been.

On a side note, Starling has been awesome with the Nest Protects as well, another category that lacks options in HomeKit. Never once went offline as opposed to my previous First Alert OneLinks. Smoke/CO sensors should be one of, if not the most reliable accessories.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Hi. Does this setup support Apples native HomeKit face recognition and two way audio? I’ve just watched a review of the new wired Nest doorbell and it was very positive but it’s a shame they lowered the resolution. That wouldn’t put me off though.
Ok so I’m in the middle of setting it up with an auxiliary power source and came across this during the setup. It does support Apple’s facial recognition going by this article.


Just did some more reading. The Google facial recognition is turned off when using with HKSV. Kind of bummed by that but I can see where this may cause a conflict.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,497
2,576
New York
Ok so just fully set this up using a plug I transformer in my house.

Works just as any other native HKSV camera- activity zones, two way audio, facial, package, animal, vehicle recognition, chime on HomePod. You get four accessories- turn on/off chime, turn on/off the camera, motion and doorbell button. You also get to set up an automation when the button is pressed directly in HomeKit. I don’t recall this with the other native HomeKit doorbells and a third party app was needed. Image quality looks fine to me but it also inside my house line of sight to an eero Pro 6. Camera loads up fast. Within a second.

Now I can answer more specific questions lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StumpyBloke

Maven1975

macrumors 65816
Aug 24, 2008
1,002
248
The problem I have with this is Netatamo’s consistent smug attitude.

Unfortunately, they consistently claimed it would come and told people it was coming.

Within the last few months, they have been completely ignoring inquiries on Twitter.

I would not be shocked if someone turned them into the ECPA.

Honestly, they deserve it.
 

StumpyBloke

macrumors 603
Apr 21, 2012
5,445
6,107
England

Hi. Received my starling hub and doorbell but it looks like the UK version of the doorbell is not HKSV compatible with starling.

The wired 2 version is not available over here. Could you send me a pic of yours please so I can see which one you have? If need be I’ll then import one. Thanks.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.