Never use monthly payment amount to compare prices

orev

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
441
784
Seeing a lot of this here, and Tim Cook even brought it up as a reason the X is so expensive and that people should just focus on the monthly price instead of the total. It's the standard car salesman trick: "Focus on the monthly payments and it's only a few bucks more, see! No big deal!"

People here are saying to just buy the 256GB because it's not that much more. Wrong! The price of the 256GB is 15% more than the 64GB. That's a very large percentage difference for something that might not make any difference to you. Apple Care+ is another %20 of the cost. In total if you go for both of these then you're paying 35% more for the phone. That's huge!

Always look at the total cost of something to make the decision if it's worth it for you. That money will be out of your pocket either way, so don't fool yourself by thinking it's only a small difference in monthly payments. Decide if the value is worth it for you BASED ON THE TOTAL PRICE, not the monthly payment!
 

Hoosier317

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2016
719
840
Seeing a lot of this here, and Tim Cook even brought it up as a reason the X is so expensive and that people should just focus on the monthly price instead of the total. It's the standard car salesman trick: "Focus on the monthly payments and it's only a few bucks more, see! No big deal!"

People here are saying to just buy the 256GB because it's not that much more. Wrong! The price of the 256GB is 15% more than the 64GB. That's a very large percentage difference for something that might not make any difference to you. Apple Care+ is another %20 of the cost. In total if you go for both of these then you're paying 35% more for the phone. That's huge!

Always look at the total cost of something to make the decision if it's worth it for you. That money will be out of your pocket either way, so don't fool yourself by thinking it's only a small difference in monthly payments. Decide if the value is worth it for you BASED ON THE TOTAL PRICE, not the monthly payment!
It's only a difference of $150 total. $12.50/month over 12 months or $6.25/month over 24 months. That is a very small amount of money relative to the overall cost of the device.
 

snatefinch

macrumors member
Jun 9, 2009
93
84
Seeing a lot of this here, and Tim Cook even brought it up as a reason the X is so expensive and that people should just focus on the monthly price instead of the total. It's the standard car salesman trick: "Focus on the monthly payments and it's only a few bucks more, see! No big deal!"

People here are saying to just buy the 256GB because it's not that much more. Wrong! The price of the 256GB is 15% more than the 64GB. That's a very large percentage difference for something that might not make any difference to you. Apple Care+ is another %20 of the cost. In total if you go for both of these then you're paying 35% more for the phone. That's huge!

Always look at the total cost of something to make the decision if it's worth it for you. That money will be out of your pocket either way, so don't fool yourself by thinking it's only a small difference in monthly payments. Decide if the value is worth it for you BASED ON THE TOTAL PRICE, not the monthly payment!
Your comparison to car sales is a pretty bad example. With iPhones, the monthly price is a direct division of the total price, no hidden fees added in because you are paying monthly instead of full price.

When it comes to car sales, they want you to focus on the payment because normally they are adding in extra money to the total amount and not showing you, or they are lowering the monthly payment but extending the amount of months you have to pay, which in the end means more money.
 
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Dunbar

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2010
556
113
Los Angeles, CA
Your comparison to car sales is a pretty bad example. With iPhones, the monthly price is a direct division of the total price, no hidden fees added in because you are paying monthly instead of full price.
Except that on the IUP program A) Apple Care is required at $99/yr extra B) You can’t upgrade until you’ve made 12 payments. That means that you probably won’t be able to get the new iPhone next year at launch without paying more (or waiting.) And I would argue that if you buy a phone for $1300-1400 with tax/AppleCare and sell it a year later for $750 that is going to be more painful for most people than paying $58/month even though it works out to the same amount of money. Hiding the depreciation in monthly payments probably makes them more likely to upgrade every year (which Apple wants you to do.)
 

HaydenWI

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2016
69
31
Charlotte
It's only a difference of $150 total. $12.50/month over 12 months or $6.25/month over 24 months. That is a very small amount of money relative to the overall cost of the device.
15% is 15%. But yes, not a ton of money for something most of us likely see value in.

His point stands though. Shopping based solely upon a monthly payment is dumb.
 

Hoosier317

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2016
719
840
15% is 15%. But yes, not a ton of money for something most of us likely see value in.

His point stands though. Shopping based solely upon a monthly payment is dumb.
He didn't actually make a valid point thought. The entire premise was a faulty analogy.
 

orev

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
441
784
Most of you missed the point. It doesn't matter that there's no interest on the loan, that's not the point. The point is that no matter what, 256GB is going to cost you $150. Don't get sidetracked by thinking it's "only" going to cost $8 per month, so you "might as well" get the 256 because "who cares about $8?". Decide if it is worth it to you based on the TOTAL price, not the monthly price.
[doublepost=1509074308][/doublepost]
He didn't actually make a valid point thought. The entire premise was a faulty analogy.
Not a false analogy. You had a false understanding/reading. Nowhere did I mention hiding the interest.

Why is is so difficult to have any kind of discussion anywhere without people intentionally misreading and misinterpreting what one says?
 

HaydenWI

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2016
69
31
Charlotte
He didn't actually make a valid point thought. The entire premise was a faulty analogy.
I was simply addressing the premise in the title that no one should shop based on the monthly payment without taking the total price into account.

And no, I don't believe it was a faulty analogy. While yes, car salesman often try to sell a "monthly payment" as a way to hide extra costs, etc", it's also a way to get consumers into cars that they otherwise shouldn't be affording.
 

Lobwedgephil

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2012
4,581
3,060
Most of you missed the point. It doesn't matter that there's no interest on the loan, that's not the point. The point is that no matter what, 256GB is going to cost you $150. Don't get sidetracked by thinking it's "only" going to cost $8 per month, so you "might as well" get the 256 because "who cares about $8?". Decide if it is worth it to you based on the TOTAL price, not the monthly price.
[doublepost=1509074308][/doublepost]
Not a false analogy. You had a false understanding/reading. Nowhere did I mention hiding the interest.

Why is is so difficult to have any kind of discussion anywhere without people intentionally misreading and misinterpreting what one says?
Actually if you upgrade after one year on IUP, it will cost you half that.
 

orev

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
441
784
It's only a difference of $150 total. $12.50/month over 12 months or $6.25/month over 24 months. That is a very small amount of money relative to the overall cost of the device.
And here you're making the exact wrong comparison that I'm calling out. You're comparing the total cost of the device ($999) to the change in monthly payment ($6.25/mo). I can't think of a worse comparison. Always use the same units! The change is the monthly payment is still 15% higher; either you compare totals to totals or monthly to monthly to be accurate. And I'm saying don't use monthly because that's a sales tactic to make you feel like it's not as much as it really is.
 

rawlus

macrumors 6502
Mar 3, 2009
308
157
Boston
let me get this straight, the reason not to shop based on monthly payment is because you think our perception and math skills are so faulty we will not understand that the cumulative effect of a small monthly price diffferential when magnified over time?
 

orev

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
441
784
let me get this straight, the reason not to shop based on monthly payment is because you think our perception and math skills are so faulty we will not understand that the cumulative effect of a small monthly price diffferential when magnified over time?
Don't be so ignorant. The reason that EVERY SINGLE SALESPERSON ON THE PLANET uses these kinds of tactics is exactly because they work, almost all the time. People are all over this forum talking about how the price difference is really not that much so you might as well go for the big one.

Do I really need to explain basic human perception and how it is manipulated? Do I really need to explain why every single store always has a "sale" going on to get people in the door? Do I really need to explain that all of these things are designed specifically because THEY WORK?

Can we all please live in reality and not some hyper-academic alternate world where everyone pretends to be sooo much smarter than everyone else?
 

rawlus

macrumors 6502
Mar 3, 2009
308
157
Boston
Don't be so ignorant. The reason that EVERY SINGLE SALESPERSON ON THE PLANET uses these kinds of tactics is exactly because they work, almost all the time. People are all over this forum talking about how the price difference is really not that much so you might as well go for the big one.

Do I really need to explain basic human perception and how it is manipulated? Do I really need to explain why every single store always has a "sale" going on to get people in the door? Do I really need to explain that all of these things are designed specifically because THEY WORK?

Can we all please live in reality and not some hyper-academic alternate world where everyone pretends to be sooo much smarter than everyone else?
you don’t really need to explain anything except why you’re so obsessed with making this point and saving half of humanity from buying the larger capacity phone. lol.

it’s ironic that in a post you began, implying we are all fools and must heed your words, that you’re lamenting a “....world where everyone pretends to be sooo much smarter than everyone else...”

do you even lift brah?
 

stulaw11

Suspended
Jan 25, 2012
1,391
1,560
So much talking in circles. The 256gb is $6.25 more per month. If you own the phone for 12 months and upgrade yearly, then 4 times the storage costs you a whopping $75 more.

You gauge if that is worth it or need more than 64gb, it's no one else's business. Who cares how many % this or that is?
 

orev

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
441
784
...no...I am not.
That's exactly what you're doing:
It's only a difference of $150 total. $12.50/month over 12 months or $6.25/month over 24 months. That is a very small amount of money relative to the overall cost of the device.
You are comparing the monthly cost over 12 or 24 months to the "overall cost of the device" Exact quote here from you. You need to compare EITHER the change in monthly cost ($44 to $51 if I remember right), or the total cost ($999 to $1149).
 

bueller1

Suspended
Jun 13, 2012
486
144
And here you're making the exact wrong comparison that I'm calling out. You're comparing the total cost of the device ($999) to the change in monthly payment ($6.25/mo). I can't think of a worse comparison. Always use the same units! The change is the monthly payment is still 15% higher; either you compare totals to totals or monthly to monthly to be accurate. And I'm saying don't use monthly because that's a sales tactic to make you feel like it's not as much as it really is.

Don't be so ignorant. The reason that EVERY SINGLE SALESPERSON ON THE PLANET uses these kinds of tactics is exactly because they work, almost all the time. People are all over this forum talking about how the price difference is really not that much so you might as well go for the big one.

Do I really need to explain basic human perception and how it is manipulated? Do I really need to explain why every single store always has a "sale" going on to get people in the door? Do I really need to explain that all of these things are designed specifically because THEY WORK?

Can we all please live in reality and not some hyper-academic alternate world where everyone pretends to be sooo much smarter than everyone else?

I think we all understand what you’re trying to get at and it might have some truth to it had there been some kind of fee or interest involved but comparing the SMALL increment in monthly price for a 0% interest free loan is NOT a result of manipulation because it simply is not the salesman tactic that you keep referring to. That tactic you are referring to is hiding tacked on costs by means of a minor increase in monthly payment that an average buyer would normally ignore or even justify without considering the extent of that increase over the course of say a 5 year car loan. Do I have to continue..
 

Hoosier317

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2016
719
840
Don't be so ignorant. The reason that EVERY SINGLE SALESPERSON ON THE PLANET uses these kinds of tactics is exactly because they work, almost all the time.
In those cases there are other variables. Such as interest, finance charges and other various fees. None of those variables are in play in this scenario. You comparison to "VERY SINGLE SALESPERSON ON THE PLANET" is invalid.

People are all over this forum talking about how the price difference is really not that much so you might as well go for the big one.
Do you know why people on this forum are saying that the price difference is small? Because it is. That's why they are saying such things. It's $150 difference...on a device that costs either $999 or $1149.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
 

orev

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
441
784
[doublepost=1509076583][/doublepost]
I think we all understand what you’re trying to get at and it might have some truth to it had there been some kind of fee or interest involved but comparing the SMALL increment in monthly price for a 0% interest free loan is NOT a result of manipulation because it simply is not the salesman tactic that you keep referring to. That tactic you are referring to is hiding tacked on costs by means of a minor increase in monthly payment that an average buyer would normally ignore or even justify without considering the extent of that increase over the course of say a 5 year car loan. Do I have to continue..

That is NOT what I'm talking about! The entire point here is that a salesperson will gladly get away with telling you that something is only "$8 more" and that sounds a lot better than if they tell you it's "$150 more". That's it. The only point being made here. End of discussion.


In those cases there are other variables. Such as interest, finance charges and other various fees. None of those variables are in play in this scenario. You comparison to "VERY SINGLE SALESPERSON ON THE PLANET" is invalid.

Do you know why people on this forum are saying that the price difference is small? Because it is. That's why they are saying such things. It's $150 difference...on a device that costs either $999 or $1149.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
I did not once bring up interest or other charges. You can use the car salesman analogy on different car models that have different prices and that has nothing to do with interest of finance charges. "on a device that costs either $999 or $1149." WHICH IS A 15% DIFFERENCE WHICH IS NOT A SMALL AMOUNT!
 
Last edited:

Ortiz7983

Suspended
Aug 6, 2012
591
241
At the end of the day, wtf is $150? I know for some people it’s a lot but cmon. And who the **** looks at just the monthly payment and not realize it adds up every time you pay monthly. If you don’t, you’re one dumb morherfudger.