Hundreds? Not millions? They sell millions of computers a year. Hundreds isn't good enough. I've had friends, corporate accounts that bought Crucial memory and it either didn't work a year later or it didn't work right out the gate. The odds of 3rd party memory working isn't as good Apple memory they sell and install at the factory.
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New 2014 Mac Mini Has Soldered RAM, Not User Replaceable
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Hundreds? Not millions? They sell millions of computers a year. Hundreds isn't good enough. I've had friends, corporate accounts that bought Crucial memory and it either didn't work a year later or it didn't work right out the gate. The odds of 3rd party memory working isn't as good Apple memory they sell and install at the factory.
I'm not like Apple, I could compromise. 17", matte and Fusion. I could loose one of them, but not all.
Sadly, I totally agree. I just hope hackintosh forums see what's happening and find a configuration that's 100% same than some imac. That's the headless mac "for the rest of us" now.
Most of us would choose an iphone that's ONE MILLIMETER (or two) thicker and has both µSD and double the batterylife.
Average for non-corporate use is far from 3 years. Maybe not among your friends, but globally. Corporates have 3 or 5 year leases, but for a private user there's no need to use calendar for knowing when you need new computer.
If you compare this to tv's, this would be the same that when you buy a tv, it would work only with one cable company. And then, when you have to move your home, you should have had a foresight?
Why Apple's customers don't mind? They don't know any better. Macs had no problem when they had upgradeable ram. There's no technical justification.
And if somebody would have been worried by 3rd party ram (which could be identical what Apple uses), you could have always taken your mac to Apple store to get that magical Apple sticker on those modules.
Also there would be no problem if Apple would offer both soldered and slotted ram. But asking to pay 2500$ for upgradeable ram or buy old models is way out of line.
Mini wasn't just low cost system, it was the only server Apple sold.
Although this is something that we should have foresaw. Thats why they killed dGPU version of mini. This is anti-democratizing osX. You need to pay a whole lot more, if you need a server or a headless mac with more than entry level power.
Upgrading a ram (or any other part) of decent desktop computer isn't DIY project. If you get a flat tire, do you need to buy new car? If you need to upgrade a computer and you dont want to DIY you can take to the shop like
a bicycle.
Funny that people like you are comparing the cheapest and the most expensive computers. Why there can't be middleground? Like xMac?
Sadest thing here is that Apple doesn't need to do this. They just want to do this. And they have to raise the prices of macs for not to get too big market share, because then Apple would have to set osX free.
I guess I'm done with this and macs. Even if I buy a new mac in the future (although I don't foresee it), it won't be an experience it could be. Macs were never cheap, but they were amazing with reasonable price and lots of options. Now they are just amazing rip off with no options.
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I really have to laugh about some postings here. Some are actually defending Apple's increasingly weakening computer line and strange hardware decisions.
Personally I have upgraded our Macs:
1x MBP 13"
1x MBP 15"
2x MBP 17"
1x iMac
with *zero* problems and *minimal* research. Dare i say it, for the RAM part, I usually take a stroll to one of the computer malls in Hong Kong, and buy the parts in one of the cramped shops for a really good price. Same as for hard drives, etc.
The components (HDDs) which have failed me so far after a relatively short time, was the stuff which was build in and supposedly thoroughly tested by Apple.
Apart from the soldered RAM, this Mac Mini is not a product, I would have associated Apple with it previously. The internals are weak and the benchmarks are reflecting this. It is a laughable computer for 2014 by a company, which designs and sells "the best products in the world".
When I started to visit these forums long time ago, I was highly annoyed by people only posting negative stuff about Apple. But when I look at my own recent postings, I realize, I started to sound like the them. It is becoming increasingly difficult for me, to find Apple and its products appealing.
Personally I have upgraded our Macs:
1x MBP 13"
1x MBP 15"
2x MBP 17"
1x iMac
with *zero* problems and *minimal* research. Dare i say it, for the RAM part, I usually take a stroll to one of the computer malls in Hong Kong, and buy the parts in one of the cramped shops for a really good price. Same as for hard drives, etc.
The components (HDDs) which have failed me so far after a relatively short time, was the stuff which was build in and supposedly thoroughly tested by Apple.
Apart from the soldered RAM, this Mac Mini is not a product, I would have associated Apple with it previously. The internals are weak and the benchmarks are reflecting this. It is a laughable computer for 2014 by a company, which designs and sells "the best products in the world".
When I started to visit these forums long time ago, I was highly annoyed by people only posting negative stuff about Apple. But when I look at my own recent postings, I realize, I started to sound like the them. It is becoming increasingly difficult for me, to find Apple and its products appealing.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's nothing wrong with third-party RAM and I've never had an issue with third party RAM in my Mac devices. That doesn't give me the right to generalize and say third-party RAM is worse than, as good as, or better than Apple memory modules which, by the way, are usually made by a third-party manufacturer. -gasp- There are actually quite a few third-party components that go into Apple devices that all end up being put together in the factory. And not all the same hardware goes into the same model ... for instance ... MacBooks getting LG screens instead of Samsung screens despite being the same exact model. Your argument holds no weight. I've never had a problem with Crucial either ... and I know many others that haven't ... but I'm not going to generalize and say Crucial RAM is flawless because that's naive. All hardware has the possibility of not working properly or failing somewhere down the road. That's the nature of computers. Some bad reviews online don't back up your claim for product quality ... just like all the people with Mac issues (like failing graphics cards, displays, RAM, hard drives, power supplies, adapters, microphone ports, etc.) doesn't mean that Apple is a terrible company that shouldn't make computers. They make excellent computers, but the hardware inside those computers are subject to failure just as much as anything else. That's also why Apple Care exists.
However, when things start becoming soldered onto the motherboard ... and that soldered on part goes bad, you can no longer replace it easily. It absolutely HAS to be repaired by Apple and if you aren't under warranty, what would have been an otherwise cheap RAM swap replacement now turns into something a LOT more costly. If you don't see the problem with this ... then I have nothing else to say.
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I just cruised Apple's own support site and looked up a bunch of user's problems they submit to the community. Just about EVERY SINGLE person that's posting a problem that's RAM related is pretty much 3rd party memory.
Yeah, I'm sure the percentages are that more people enjoy decent memory than the one's that don't, but the percentage of bad memory is far higher than what Apple ships and replacing bad memory can take a while and when it happens, it completely removes any money you tried to save as Kernal Panics and other things can corrupt files and cause other problems as a result. But if you want to play a game and use questionable 3rd party RAM, go ahead. The forums for Amazon, the RAM mfg., Apple's support site are riddled with many, many people having problems with RAM, and this also happens on the PC side, so it's not platform specific.
But it sounds like there are a lot of cry babies that wan to complain over a few bucks. Not everyone knows how to change a tire, that's why there is AAA and other Roadside services. And not all people that change a tire do it properly.
5 machines? WOW, you must be so knowledgeable. Heck, when I was working for corporate resellers, I would sell THOUSANDs of machines a year. Your little piddly 5 machines is not enough to warrant having expertise in RAM upgrades. Seriously. 5 machines?
I know companies that bought a batch of 500 laptops with Crucial memory and practically every single one was getting kernel panics within a week after the install. They had to send out an Apple product manager out to the customer to see what the problem was. When you work for a large corporate reseller for over a decade, you see the horror stories, and having used computers since 1977, you get your own horror stories. I won't touch 3rd party RAM on anything that's work related, important to me, or covered under any warranty or extended warranty, otherwise you are gambling.
All it takes is one memory to go bad creating kernel panics and corrupted files to negate all of the money you saved. I think it's a crap shoot. But if you want to play Tim "the tool man" Taylor, that's your thing. I just wouldn't recommend it.
As far as hard drives go, I don't doubt that hdd's are failing, the way they are built now, they are just junk, that's why I'm leaning towards a RAID set up or using SSDs, instead. I'm sure Apple would love to get off HDD's altogether since the quality coming out of these companies suck. I was looking up various RAID drives and I see a lot of people getting bad HDD's (PCs and Macs) and it's kind of scary how fast these drives last. The better drives are the more expensive Enterprise Class drives, which are typically around 2x the price. And even then, they is a high degree of failure, and it's due to them being ultra cheaply made. HDD quality has come way down since the 80's, that's for sure. But if you look, Apple's trying to move to SSDs more and more, but they are more expensive and people complain over the price, but I agree that hard drive quality is going downhill, but it's not Apple, it's the entire industry.
With SSD's, the longer lasting are the higher end, more costly because they are designed to have more READ/WRITE lifetime. The Enterprise SSDs are more expensive, but they are designed to last longer and have more reads/writes.
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Makes sense to me. I didn't lament the loss of the 17" as its bulkiness reminded me too much of the bulky, heavy 17" PC (stolen by UPS during transit, and when they initially denied the insurance claime) I had before settling on a Mac. But losing a very good and flexible 15"? Why not keep the "old" line along with the thinner Retina one??
I can't say about recent iPhones battery life. Sure the 3GS has a crappy one. But I would be testing an hypothetical µSD iPhone first, knowing how bad it is on Android and Symbian.
Not sure what you mean here. As computer prices steadily dwindled in the last decade and a half, building quality went down and less pressure was put on modularity than years before. I euthanized my own 1999 Compaq when it could no longer perform the job at hand within a reasonable timeframe. When I started college, laptops were typically $1800+, so were few and far between on library's desks or student backpacks.
I don't get your point here. Please elaborate.
After cutting the XServe, one could have assumed that Apple would leave its Mini Server untouched, or release its OS packed as a VM image.
Same goes for a hard drive. But as for the car analogy, not sure how far you can stretch it. If something went wrong in the engine bay, for decades you could open the hood and fix the issue provided you had tools and general mechanics knowledge. Now, with all-around computerization, closed-source tools, you absolutely have to go to a repair shop or the manufacturer to get anything fixed (usually a high-ticket solution).
But I get the argument: of course it's easier from a warranty point of view to deal with a single provider, and it was the main reason I gave for switching to a Mac. But RAM problems are rare: if they pass the memtest, come with a lifetime warranty of their own, then there's no much reason to stay away from them. The problems UpperQuadrant is referring to come from experience on self-built PCs, where each component comes with its own warranty terms, distinct manufacturers, lax tolerances that just happen not to play well with one another.
Well the Mac Mini was supposed to cover basic and middle-ground in headless Macs, while the Pro covers the headless higher end.
Sad but my position for now. Don't forget to send feedback to Apple.
You mentioned the problem yourself. It is true that you can't settle on tolerance-lax RAM modules on a work machine. Corporate buyers who know nothing about Apple's strict guidelines would easily settle for non-Mac approved RAM makers as they do on PCs.
Personally, I only install one of three RAM brands (assemblers, not chip makers) in Macs: Kingston, Apple's official supplier (extremely expensive), Mushkin (too often undervalued), OWC, all lifetime-warrantied, no questions asked. I also assisted other people to install theirs (though nowhere near as large a sample as a corporation), and never ever heard or seen about RAM-related issues, even if I always took the precaution of retaining the original RAM sticks should the machine need to be reset to factory state for warranty-covered evaluation. It doesn't invalidate the warranty, I just do it to make it easier for Genius to perform their work.
It's a crapshoot when you don't plan wisely and just go for the special-of-the-week, assuming a Mac is just an ordinary PC.
I think you didn't mention that HDD from the 80s were very slow and had comparatively giant sectors, and break of tolerances didn't have any consequence. Of course, I guess build quality was also astonishing, knowing that HDDs weren't very common and only available to the very rich.
RAM upgrades
I have been buying RAM upgrades since 1976, the year Apple was founded.
The first chips I bought: 450 ns 1K x 1 bit static RAM, quantity 32 for a total of 4 KiB.
I've made many RAM purchases from many different machines. My observations:
1. Any widely recognized name brand RAM is pretty darn good. If it works the first time it's powered up, then it will work for years and years.
2. RAM from less well known makers can be pretty good, too.
3. The ice becomes slightly thinner when buying used RAM.
4. In practice, the most important aspect about RAM purchases is the selection of the vendor. It is worth paying a little more up front for prompt delivery, in stock products, accurate labeling, and a good return policy.
My preference is to go with OWC. They've set a good record with me and they also carry lots of Mac-specific stuff which costs less than Apple's merchandise or most non-Apple merchandise sold by Apple. Also, they host many different how-to installation videos.
However, I haven't bought RAM from every vendor, so there may be others with service just as good as that of OWC.
I have been buying RAM upgrades since 1976, the year Apple was founded.
The first chips I bought: 450 ns 1K x 1 bit static RAM, quantity 32 for a total of 4 KiB.
I've made many RAM purchases from many different machines. My observations:
1. Any widely recognized name brand RAM is pretty darn good. If it works the first time it's powered up, then it will work for years and years.
2. RAM from less well known makers can be pretty good, too.
3. The ice becomes slightly thinner when buying used RAM.
4. In practice, the most important aspect about RAM purchases is the selection of the vendor. It is worth paying a little more up front for prompt delivery, in stock products, accurate labeling, and a good return policy.
My preference is to go with OWC. They've set a good record with me and they also carry lots of Mac-specific stuff which costs less than Apple's merchandise or most non-Apple merchandise sold by Apple. Also, they host many different how-to installation videos.
However, I haven't bought RAM from every vendor, so there may be others with service just as good as that of OWC.
Just ordered a 2012 quad core I7 mac mini. Probably the last mac i'll own. Sad.
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I've been specing and using apple computers since 1986.
I've never had a 3rd party stick of RAM fail--and that's a lot of apple boxes.
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I've been specing and using apple computers since 1986.
I've never had a 3rd party stick of RAM fail--and that's a lot of apple boxes.
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Yes. 5 Macs. PCs not included. All mine. Paid out of my own pocket. Sorry that I couldn't come up with a bigger number. But that number is enough for me to warrant a technical opinion. How many have you paid and owned?
Well, I'm certainly not the most knowledgable computer guru around but let's just say, with my Engineering Degree in Computer Science, which is equivalent to a Masters Degree in your country if you are from the US, I feel comfortable enough to upgrade RAM.
And I found a job where I don't have to make a living in just selling computers. No offense.
Actually I think you know very little. You are just very opinionated.
If not brainwashed.
Apart from that, I just fail to see what was wrong with Apple's previous approach. People like you could buy their expensive RAM from Apple and I would buy my Kingston Chips for about half the price in a computer mall in HK
Welcome to MacRumors by the way.
It's a later gen processor and it also has Thunderbolt 2 vs Thunderbolt, later gen graphics. I don't think it's a slower performing unit than last year's entry model.
I haven't compared the actual benchmark tests, but it is probably a faster performer since it's a later gen processor. The actual processor speed sometimes doesn't matter when you are comparing different generation processors. Plus the newer processor might be more expensive.
Not all the people can change their RAM properly, but is this a valid reason to take that option away in all?I just cruised Apple's own support site and looked up a bunch of user's problems they submit to the community. Just about EVERY SINGLE person that's posting a problem that's RAM related is pretty much 3rd party memory.
Yeah, I'm sure the percentages are that more people enjoy decent memory than the one's that don't, but the percentage of bad memory is far higher than what Apple ships and replacing bad memory can take a while and when it happens, it completely removes any money you tried to save as Kernal Panics and other things can corrupt files and cause other problems as a result. But if you want to play a game and use questionable 3rd party RAM, go ahead. The forums for Amazon, the RAM mfg., Apple's support site are riddled with many, many people having problems with RAM, and this also happens on the PC side, so it's not platform specific.
But it sounds like there are a lot of cry babies that wan to complain over a few bucks. Not everyone knows how to change a tire, that's why there is AAA and other Roadside services. And not all people that change a tire do it properly.
If you didn't know, macs are the pickiest computers in the market considering RAM. This might be intentional, since Apple want's you to buy ram from them and if you do, they can tune the mac work optimally with just certain specs and not with wide variety like "pc's". Ever noticed that with other computers than Apple's, you can change ram's timing parameters in the BIOS, to make them work faster or more reliable.
3rd party memory makers usually have specific models for every mac. Those RAMs are pretty much guaranteed to work fine. If people buy whatever modules without finding out if it fits, you will find them in the forums complaining. Of course this wouldn't be a problem, if Apple designed macs to work in same way than rest of the industry regarding ram.
Always even being knowledgeable doesn't help. When I bough more ram to my mp in 2007, 3rd party ram (Kingston) worked just fine by itself, but not with "original" (Hynix) mp's ram. Funny, it was cheaper to replace original memory with new one, than buy additional memory from Apple.
Well people might remember 17" mbp as bulky, but the fact was that it was as thin (WOW!) as 15" and weighted only 450g (=less than one pound) more.
I meant that even corporations change their hardware every 3 or 5 years, there's no reason why individual user couldn't use a computer for 6 or 7 years. Needs vary and so do the machines. Powerful desktop for 3D or video editing is just fine for lighter tasks when it gets old. And now in case of Apple, freelance visual artist might need to change MP just after 2 years. So there's no "one lifetime for all computer/macs" that we all should follow.
That was just a counter-argument to the opinion that because so few people can upgrade ram by themselves, it shouldn't be done at all (ie. soldered ram). This evolves to hypothetical imaginary guesses, that even if Apple Store upgrades your ram with Apple branded sticks, there's still (one-in-a-million) change that your ram does not work as good as soldered.
Well, cars are starting to be like macs now... Not funny, but neither justifies the other.
Times change.
Even when Apple has no longer any significant value for exclusivity for osX, it won't give/sell/license it away. In the past it was said that Apple needs to keep exclusivity to osX, because Apple is a hardware company, but nowdays Apple gets more and more of their income from non-physical products and most of physical products they sell does not use osX...
Already did. Not that would matter. I guess that shrinking mini to entry level was decided sometimes in 2011, when they designed to release next minis without dGPU.
"In the old days" there was balance between quality and price. Now both can be whatever and high quality is getting more expensive all the time, since average Joe just looks the price and mass market product's cost is minimized to the end. This lifespan optimizing has gone so far, that when fractions of cents can be saved, may lead even "the developer of highest quality" to problems: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/08/21/lawsuit-2011-macbook-pro-graphics/
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The CPU benchmarks are out now. The results are even more underwhelming for the new 2014 Mini than I thought they would be.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks
On the other hand, the performance of the new high-end 4 GHz Retina 5K iMac is very, very good.
In some cases, if you mix Apple supplied memory with 3rd party, that can create problems. Sometimes, it might be the speed differences, especially in older systems where they had speed differences in memory.
The problem with this. If Apple sees a certain percentage of problems, then they have to figure out how to reduce it, and if it means soldered memory, then that's what the solution is. Out of every person that installs memory, they can inadvertently have any of the following problems.
1. Incompatible 3rd part memory.
2. DOA memory
3. Memory that gets flaky after a period of time within the warranty or AppleCare warranty period.
There is always going to be people that properly install high quality memory and there is always a percentage of people that don't install high quality memory. Apple has more control over the quality if it's soldered onto the motherboard and after all, they designed the systems, they have it mfg, and they support it. If it turns out that there are simply too many problems with consumers improperly installing memory or just using flaky memory, Apple can't control that after the fact, yet they have to spend money in having people answer Tech Support calls with people that have problems. If they are going to run a company with a high degree of efficiency, they have to remove problems with reduces the amount of tech support calls, and if they can drop the price of the product in the process, that's even better. Surface mount is always more reliable than socketed. Sockets aren't always going to have proper connection since they can get loose over time. It' just one more thing that things can go wrong. I know and understand how frustrating it is not to be able to upgrade the memory. I'm not a fan of soldered memory for this reason, but if it helps reduce problems, then I'm all for that. We just have to buy enough RAM that will cover us for the duration that we own and use the product and hopefully we buy enough. Apple nor most of the big name companies that sell high tech equipment are really that concerned over the price of a spare part. Do you think Cisco is concerned about the price of the RAM they sell for their switches and routers over the 3rd party market? NO. They buy on contract basis and these memory mfg constantly dump product at lower prices because of their inventory gets out of hand. I wish I could show you the price fluctuations of Crucial or other brands of memory. If you go to Amazon and have one of these price history browser extensions installed, you can see how the prices go up and down over the course of several years. It looks very much like the price of a commodity and over the course of several years it goes down, but it fluctuates during that time period. Load Tracktor for your browser, you can see some of these memory mfg have sometimes drastic price fluctuations and some don't. The major mfg, typically don't change their pricing on a daily basis. They can't respond that quickly to the market conditions.
Wrong.
Benchmarks have conclusively proven its a dog compared to last year's model.
Just because someone posts thousand-word replies doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.
Just because you say something is bastardized or that someone else is misguided doesn't mean they are.
These are low profit margin products and they need to retain profit margin wherever they can. These aren't meant to be DIY project computers. Apple has to cut the costs wherever they can and also provide something with less problems. Anytime you have customer doing their own upgrades is where a lot of problem arise and Apple Tech Support gets the call to help someone trouble shoot the DIY project where they don't always use high quality parts or know how to properly install them. These types of support calls cost Apple money which bites into their already lower profit margins. it's pretty straightforward and cut and dry.
Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad. It's a low end entry product and they need to cut production costs and retain margins. REAL SIMPLE.
Again, I haven't seen the benchmark comparisons of the last model prior to the new one.
You make statements of just putting people down rather than coming up with some rational reasons that actually make business sense.
Go work for a large mfg of computer products or a large computer reseller and really understand the industry before you make flippant and ignorant statements and put downs.
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Are you for real? I can't believe someone can say such nonsense.
The one making ignorant statements is you
Prove that Apple doesn't get more support calls from people installing 3rd party RAM than soldered RAM. It's far more reliable to have surface mounted RAM than socketed. it's too easy to have RAM that isn't seated properly, that's a FACT. sockets aren't 100% reliable, the connection between the socket and the tabs on the memory modules aren't always a solid connection. Plus 3rd party memory isn't that reliable. These 3rd party RAM mfg send out incompatible memory, DOA memory and flaky memory and when the customer has a problem and calls Apple, that tech support call costs money and eats into their profit margin.
Jeez, it's VERY simple to understand the problem and how they have to solve the problem. Just because you and a bunch of others don't like isn't going to change these facts. Get to know the other perspective before making your comments.
That is the most delusional steaming pile of excuses I've ever read.
You buy RAM from a reputable company that actually manufactures it and THEY support the RAM, not the computer vendor you're installing it in because the RAM is the product that needs replacement.
Your analogy about soldered VS socketed is speculation. Systems have had socketed RAM for decades and those sockets have clips to hold the RAM in place as well as deep sockets that hold the RAM in by force too. This makes your non-point about issues with 3rd party RAM even more invalid because ANY RAM can fail due to a defect (on the rare occassion it does) and the socketed RAM is a straightforward replacement, the soldered RAM is a dead system without some serious work (if it's even possible).
Soldered RAM makes sense in devices like phones, tablets, readers, Blu Ray players, consoles etc... I'll even suggest ultrabooks have soldered RAM to cut down on dimensions but there's no excuse for a form-before-function desktop to have soldered RAM.
So what if systems have had socketed memory for decades. That doesn't mean anything. These are small form factor models with very little room inside and they want to cut the costs of production and support. That's the best way to do it.
I know the socketed is easier to change, but if the soldered memory doesn't fail as often, then they don't have to replace the motherboard as often. When they put sockets inside, they get a lot of DIYers doing their own upgrades and that's where the problems are. Flaky RAM, users not installing properly, hence, increased support costs.
Seriously, these low end system have very little profit margin to begin with and they have to do what they have to do to cut costs and improve reliability. It's a FACT that soldered RAM is more reliable than socketed. It's also face that Apple supplied memory is more reliable than 3rd party RAM. Faulty RAM is one of the biggest hardware problems and they are trying to reduce those problems and this is how they are doing it. It's not that big of a deal.
Floppys used to be used, but those went bye bye, same with optical drives, and now HDD's are going bye bye for SSDs. Well, in case you haven't noticed, soldered memory is the direction Apple has been going. They only have a few models with socketed RAM and they are the more expensive models for desktops. That's the direction they are going. Like it or not, that's their direction and I don't think they are going to go back. Just a gut feeling.
Just go on Apple's Support Community forum and do some searches on RAM related issues, just about every single one of them is 3rd party RAM related. You'll see people using 3rd party RAM have far more problems than Apple supplied RAM. Go look up the community submissions and look for yourself.
Agreed. I know people who have had the ram fail in their soldered Macbook Pros. Hello logic board replacement. My Mum's Macbook had the ram fail, and all I had to do was get OWC to send replacements. Pretty sure RAM sockets aren't going to cut costs that much for Apple. They're just going to make a useless system. A Mac Mini with 4GB of Ram is going to last 2 years max as a usable machine. Anything less than 8GB with traditional 5400rpm HDDs is a nightmare of usability. People claiming its going to make the Mac mini better are just crazed. Its going to make it less serviceable and more expensive to fix should the ram go wrong, last less as 4GB is already too little. The only reason this has happened is due to greed.