New Air turning out to be a dud

[m1maverick]

how many people check a stopwatch against a video export (or whatever)? we just... wait.

I don't want to get involved with benchmark validity (or not) but I think the idea is that small delays add up if the delay is applied to large quantities of "things". For example, if it takes 10 seconds longer to process an image and one has to process 50 images then processing time takes an additional 8 plus minutes. Not the end of the world and people will just wait. But as you can see it can add up:

Saving Lives

I think the M2 MBA is a great system and everyone has made good arguments for their positions.

 

[fisherking]

I don't want to get involved with benchmark validity (or not) but I think the idea is that small delays add up if the delay is applied to large quantities of "things". For example, if it takes 10 seconds longer to process an image and one has to process 50 images then processing time takes an additional 8 plus minutes. Not the end of the world and people will just wait. But as you can see it can add up:

Saving Lives

I think the M2 MBA is a great system and everyone has made good arguments for their positions.

right, people will do what they've always done; wait. this isn't something radical, or new. however long a process takes is how long it takes. and somehow, we all get thru it.

 

[m1maverick]

right, people will do what they've always done; wait. this isn't something radical, or new. however long a process takes is how long it takes. and somehow, we all get thru it.

Or they may opt to choose an alternative which doesn't incur the cost. The benchmark, assuming it reasonably represents the users task, gave them additional information which they could use in making a purchasing decision.

 

[hans1972]

If the throttling issues are legit, it is a disappointment for the M2 simply because the M1 didn't do that. That makes the M2 something I would indeed move on from---right back to the M1 (which in full disclosure what I bought recently (16/512).

The M1 didn't require ANY compromises or moving on.

According to Max Tech it did:

 

[chrono1081]

i know people running logic pro on their airs, and apple, after all, offers logic and final cut with the purchase of an air. that must mean something.... 🤔

Yup. I've hammered mine hard since I got it and ran Houdini sims, Logic (20 tracks before I got bored trying to overwhelm it because I wasn't making a dent in performance), Final Cut editing and exporting 4k video, Animating and rendering in Blender, tons of Xcode usage, and playing video games and the thing barely got warm and handled it all like a champ.

It put my 16' MBP with an Intel i9 and 64 gigs ram to shame in all areas except CPU rendering and it wasn't far behind. This is Blender running through Rosetta too (I didn't render in Houdini since Mantra is super slow on any system) so I'm really curious how native performance would be, if my Air would overtake my MBP.

I've been in tech far too long to be fooled by benchmarks. While its fine people like them, they never translate to real world performance. Show me apps running not numbers from a program designed to crush a system.

 

[hans1972]

I don't want to keep flogging the proverbial dead horse on every single thread about the M2 Macs, but this oft-quoted justification that the drop in performance of the M2s' SSDs vs M1s' doesn't matter just because most buyers won't notice, is, if stretched to the ultimate ridiculous extreme, akin to justifying the murder of someone providing no one notices the victim is dead.

If I don't notice it in my use of the computer, I don't care. I don't need my Macs to perform well for features I don't need.

I don't care about the specification or the performance of the parts of a Mac at all if it can run the software I need with satisfactory performance. Every Mac released in the last few 8 years have more than enough performance for my use.

Specifications and performance data from synthetic benchmarks are only useful when trying to determine which Mac is right for me. The final test is using it and at that point I don't care about specifications and performance data. Only my own usage is then important.

I'm buying the M2 MacBook Air with 16Gb, 256Gb SSD and its going to be the best Mac I have ever owned and used.

 

[hans1972]

I own a base 13" MBP so they are not poles apart. The reality is that both base M2's perform worse than the original M1's, with the same illustrated use. Most tend to do more than one task at a time or simply run a single application, I know from experience the M1 is capable which is the operative word.

Technically the M2's do offer better performance, however the base models are hobbled by their single channel 256 SSD. I fail to see why anyone is shocked when this is questioned as the performance differential has been clearly shown by multiple sources. Most logically expect the next generation to advance, not take such a retrograde step in something as important as SSD performance...

Q-6

I haven't seen any numbers of performance deviation for non-professional applications or simple applications like Office.

 

[hans1972]

If you have the 8GB/256GB then you may run into slowdowns, 8GB will easily get used up and the device will SWAP. But it's swapping to a single NAND which is slower than the previous M1. That is where it could result in a noticeable performance dip.

Have you tested? And have you calculated it?

Even swapping 1Gb seems to be done in so little time than you won't notice it seems swapping occurs before the memory is needed while you're doing something else in most cases.

 

[hans1972]

I don't want to get involved with benchmark validity (or not) but I think the idea is that small delays add up if the delay is applied to large quantities of "things". For example, if it takes 10 seconds longer to process an image and one has to process 50 images then processing time takes an additional 8 plus minutes. Not the end of the world and people will just wait. But as you can see it can add up:

Saving Lives

I think the M2 MBA is a great system and everyone has made good arguments for their positions.

Most people buying the standard MBA will be using Photos with photos taken by an iPhone. The amount it takes to read those images into memory is so fast you won't notice it.

It's different if you are using Adobe Lightroom with RAW images, but how many of those users are buying the low-end MBA for that?

 

[LeeW]

Have you tested? And have you calculated it?

Yes I have.

 

[fisherking]

Yes I have.

when you say you've seen a 'noticeable performance lag'... what is that in comparison to? i mean, if someone gets an 8/256 M2 air, are they going to be comparing similar processes to another mac, or are they simply going to do the work they set out to do? in which case... there won't be any 'performance lag' to stress about.

it may be an insane world, but i swear, the sky is not falling

 

[LeeW]

when you say you've seen a 'noticeable performance lag'... what is that in comparison to? i mean, if someone gets an 8/256 M2 air, are they going to be comparing similar processes to another mac, or are they simply going to do the work they set out to do? in which case... there won't be any 'performance lag' to stress about.

it may be an insane world, but i swear, the sky is not falling

It is in comparison to the M1 MBA with 8/256 vs the M2 MBA 8/256. If you max out the 8GB Ram and force swapping to around 2GB you can tell the M2 is more 'sluggish'. It's the SSD of course, it's slower as it's a single NAND vs 2 NAND in the M1.

Now of course if you do that kind of comparison and there is a difference you will likely see it.

But, it's what you said above, if I put the M2 MBA 8/256 in front of 100 people I do not believe any of them will say 'Wow that is slow" or "That feels slower than my M1".

If you do a side-by-side comparison, sure you will notice a difference, if you watch YT videos telling you there is a difference you will believe it. Will it have any impact on your usage? No.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

According to Max Tech it did:

First of all did you watch the end of the video? He still massively recommends it. Secondly, I said it throttled. What I should have made clear was that it throttled in a very unnoticeable way and still keeps going. Just fine. It isn't like the intel ones where it drops down a well once it starts throttling. My bet is the M2 is the same way.

I have pushed my M1 MBA massively and it still gets it done just fine. Just gets it done a little slower, but it absolutely gets it done just fine. As long as the workload can be sustained at the throttled level, then it can still do anything even a power user needs it to do. Just slower.

 

[wbeasley]

Spot on -- I 100% agree with you

The excuse making on behalf of Apple for the M2 shortcomings is really disappointing

i read these complaint comments as attacking Apple not making excuses for them.
if you can read a spec page, read a review and are then disappointed with a purchase you can return it and buy something else.

it's like people complaining about the notch. sure it's there.
but you get ADDED screen space that allows the menus to effectively move up freeing up that row for content.
and if you choose the correct wallpaper, the notch disappears..

Seems people just like to vent and be outraged these days.
Buy it if it meets your needs, buy nothing or something else it it doesnt.
And dont presume to know what makes other people happy or how they should spend their money...

 

[Queen6]

I haven't seen any numbers of performance deviation for non-professional applications or simple applications like Office.

No doubt. It's all about usage and where your coming from, essentially the users perspective. I don't want to risk a reduction in performance nor do I want to have to spec up what is essentially a secondary system.

My base M1 13" MBP handles the expected workload without issue the base M2 Air may not due to the significantly reduced SSD R/W speeds. The 512 M2 Air I expect will hold the same load as the current M1 MBP, equally the price is now creeping into the 14" MBP range which a more capable device at the cost of some portability.

This is why I'll stick with the 13" until the mist clears as it gets the job done. If I was coming from an older Intel Mac the base M2 would likely be a significant upgrade.

Q-6

 

[MoreAwesomeDanU]

According to Max Tech it did:

shhh the internet has a short memory. all people remember is how the m1 smoked intel's desktop cpu and rtx3090s!

 

[hans1972]

First of all did you watch the end of the video? He still massively recommends it. Secondly, I said it throttled. What I should have made clear was that it throttled in a very unnoticeable way and still keeps going. Just fine. It isn't like the intel ones where it drops down a well once it starts throttling. My bet is the M2 is the same way.

Yes, and I love computers who throttles to reduce heat. That's why I got the 12" MacBook back in 2015. And I still use it as my backup notebook.

I posted just so that people want believe that the M1 MacBook Air never throttled under any circumstance.

 

[wbeasley]

when you say you've seen a 'noticeable performance lag'... what is that in comparison to? i mean, if someone gets an 8/256 M2 air, are they going to be comparing similar processes to another mac, or are they simply going to do the work they set out to do? in which case... there won't be any 'performance lag' to stress about.

it may be an insane world, but i swear, the sky is not falling

so I'm responding to you while my main task on 8G/256G base unit is using 96% of GPU to upscale videos.
even then, the performance when doing other tasks it fine. no lag typing, or scrolling or load web pages.

for minor tasks, the free resources are still more than adequate.

i'm always going to wonder if the 16G/512G Air would be noticeably faster (two more GPUs) at encoding, maybe less disk swapping. But is it real world different or just a few minutes saved on a task that takes 12 hours? benchmarks are fine for raw comparison. but defined tasks that match what people will really do on these machines would really help purchase decisions.

 

[Sowelu]

am hoping the rumors are true, and we see a new 12" MB in the next year or so.

i tried to visit the macrumors macbook forum, but didn't feel like digging thru all the cobwebs...

I really hope that a 12" Apple Silicon MacBook is on the horizon. The current 12" is awesome, imagine a successor with the new design language and a speedy and cool running M2 (or M1). The new design and formfactor shrunk down a bit (while being even lighter) would be the ultimate. I am thinking they'd just need to go back to using the smaller top row keys, and maybe reduce the overall keyboard size a smidge, and I am totally fine with that.

 

[Queen6]

Overall I think Max is on the right track with the M2 Air moving to a more premium product. The M1 Air was literally lightening in the bottle and far too close to the M1 MBP and other more expensive Mac's at launch.

Now the base M2 Air is more aligned with it's original use case. If you want more it's there, however at a price that closes on the 14" MBP. More to the point product segregation, makes sense as the base models are by far the biggest sellers...

Just seen the new M2 in a local reseller, oddly they still had the old Intel MBA, M1 MBA & M2 MBA. You can really see the evolution in design. MacBook Air is now very far from what it was just a few years back. The M2's design beautifully executed It's that nice I could live with the 33% price increase to get the best of it. For a thin & light notebook Apple has absolutely nailed the design and then some.

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Yes, and I love computers who throttles to reduce heat. That's why I got the 12" MacBook back in 2015. And I still use it as my backup notebook.

I posted just so that people want believe that the M1 MacBook Air never throttled under any circumstance.

I still have my 12" from 2015 I love the form factor and yes it was a limited device, yet nowhere as limited as the competitors. I think an M1 12" MB would be a killer device with MagSafe and a couple of ports. Certainly my 12" MB more than payed for itself being a great tool in the right hands.

Q-6

 

[erasr]

Leeds fan. Says it all.

 

[tomtad]

One more to add the list and that's the light fabric wrapped MagSafe cables. Was in the store earlier today and they are really grubby already

 

[seek3r]

One more to add the list and that's the light fabric wrapped MagSafe cables. Was in the store earlier today and they are really grubby already

Literally anything handled by 10s of thousands of customers is going to get grubby, in real world usage unless you're dragging it through mud you are never going to get it as grubby as one in an apple store.