New Apple Patent Describes Fingerprint Sensor That Could Work Through Display

[keysofanxiety]

Yeah, but it will be worth it (I hope).

I hope too! Regardless, I'm pretty easy to please. To be honest, not even the bezels in the current gen bother me. But I can appreciate why others would find it a bit grating.

Though more impressive, even to the most seasoned hater, would be the chips in these iPhones. A radical redesign would practically be a walk in the park compared to designing your own CPUs and optimising the OS to them – as Apple have done. They're at least 5 years ahead of the competition in this regard (competition being an independent OEM designing their own chips, not being 5 years ahead of Qualcomm).

Apple have been playing the long game since the iPhone 4. They've taken the flak. They've been laughed at. They've been spanked in benchmarks. They've haemorrhaged market share. But by gum they stuck to their guns and it's really paid off. They didn't succumb to the short-term temptation of 'throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks'.

I can't begin to tell you how excited I am to see what the next 5 years will bring.

 

[Mac 128]

I personally don't think we will have a full edge to edge screen. I hate the oversized bezels which lead to a larger phone than necessary, especially for Plus users. I think shrinking the bezels by at least half and removing the button would be more in line with an Apple design. No side bezels either.

This mockup is the best i've seen so far and is almost exactly what i would want for the next phone. http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/09/22/iphone-8-concept-design-puts-the-iphone-7-to-shame/

You know, everybody keeps pointing to a bezeless phone being a smaller phone as depicted in that link:

But the problem is, Apple says they don't have room for the headphone jack now. Apple is using all of that internal space. And while I agree that they might be able to reduce the size by re-engineering the phone, that's a significant dimensional change, which would be incredibly difficult to overcome in one generation, based on the state of the art components already crammed into the iPhone 7.

 

[lordofthereef]

This is not an issue. If you wanted a bigger screen, you could've gotten the Plus model. I don't understand this. An iPhone 6-7 can easily fit in pocket regardless of if there were bezels or not.
Not to mention without bezels, your fingers are covering part of the screen depending on what you are doing.

I see no reason or improvement from this 'chinless' fad.

You're not understanding what I'm saying or you simply disagree (which is fine). A smaller footprint is not the same as "just buying the plus model". Less physical space taken up in my pants pocket and more screen is what I would like. Whether you agree or not about the pocketability of these phones (I actually use a plus and get along fine), many people do have issues with stuffing a plus in their pockets currently.

Only reason my wife used a 7 and not a 7 plus is because of the difficulty sticking it in her front pocket (even the 7 sticks out a bit) while at work. And she's obviously not alone.

I think the thick bezels on the iPhone are more of an aesthetic vestigial structure than one that is absolutely necessary. I'm sure opinions will differ in that point. I'd love to see it go.

That said, having seen the google pixel announcement, this was a disappointment from team Google as well.
[doublepost=1475612336][/doublepost]

I guess I just don't understand how this is a "problem." I like the screen size, and I like the overall shape and feel of iPhones in my hand. I have never once thought there was any functionality I'd gain out of reducing the bezels personally.

It's not strictly a problem. We can get along just fine without. I just feel it would be an improvement on design. Having the screen size of a plus with the pocket ability of the 4.7" iPhone model would improve usability.

I guess I'll ask this a different way. What do the bezels in the current phone do for you (or anyone else)? To me they just take up space and they've just kind of always been there so I live with it.

 

[BiffTannen2016]

And via a light you only need the tech in a specific locale under the display, not everywhere.
[doublepost=1475584372][/doublepost]

I'd bet it won't have no bezels. I also fail to see how you replace the Home button virtually? A force gesture from the bottom of the display? A handy power-move, but hardly an intelligent default design to get Home. I'd love to see a fitting alternative to the more physical button we have today [microns movement to sense pressure; permanent physical location]. Perhaps they'll move it to the NC, but that's worse than what we have now. Less convenient, less intuitive.

[doublepost=1475614162][/doublepost]

And via a light you only need the tech in a specific locale under the display, not everywhere.
[doublepost=1475584372][/doublepost]

I'd bet it won't have no bezels. I also fail to see how you replace the Home button virtually? A force gesture from the bottom of the display? A handy power-move, but hardly an intelligent default design to get Home. I'd love to see a fitting alternative to the more physical button we have today [microns movement to sense pressure; permanent physical location]. Perhaps they'll move it to the NC, but that's worse than what we have now. Less convenient, less intuitive.

[doublepost=1475614212][/doublepost]Hellooooo! Mac Flyyyyy!!!!!

 

[JGRE]

Pretty crazy to think that this could be possible. It doesn't seem clear to me though - would the touch ID portion be under a specific area of the screen, or would this layer be able to read the fingerprint at any are of the screen?

If the reader is combined with the home button, it would need to be in a specific area. I just don't know how this is supposed to work with the touch screen; the home button area can not be used both ways. Yeah, not clear to me either.
[doublepost=1475615938][/doublepost]

You're not understanding what I'm saying or you simply disagree (which is fine). A smaller footprint is not the same as "just buying the plus model". Less physical space taken up in my pants pocket and more screen is what I would like. Whether you agree or not about the pocketability of these phones (I actually use a plus and get along fine), many people do have issues with stuffing a plus in their pockets currently.

Only reason my wife used a 7 and not a 7 plus is because of the difficulty sticking it in her front pocket (even the 7 sticks out a bit) while at work. And she's obviously not alone.

I think the thick bezels on the iPhone are more of an aesthetic vestigial structure than one that is absolutely necessary. I'm sure opinions will differ in that point. I'd love to see it go.

That said, having seen the google pixel announcement, this was a disappointment from team Google as well.
[doublepost=1475612336][/doublepost]
It's not strictly a problem. We can get along just fine without. I just feel it would be an improvement on design. Having the screen size of a plus with the pocket ability of the 4.7" iPhone model would improve usability.

I guess I'll ask this a different way. What do the bezels in the current phone do for you (or anyone else)? To me they just take up space and they've just kind of always been there so I live with it.

Totally agree with you, bezels are just a waist of space. They have no purpose for a user. For laptops (even more) like the MBA, with no bezels Apple could fit a 15 inch screen in a 13 inch model; this would be great. For iPhones the same logic applies.
[doublepost=1475616282][/doublepost]

While the quality of the front-facing camera has improved, one thing that has not improved is HOW we take a selfie: We look at ourselves in the screen when the pic is taken, and not at the camera lens itself. Since selfies are taken in much more close proximity to the camera lens than when taking a pic with the rear camera, the greater majority of the time the subjects in the picture are staring off the edge of the actual picture. If Apple (or anyone) is able to embed camera lenses within the display in such a way that the lenses are in the vicinity of where the subject is actually looking, then not only has bezel space been cleared up, but the quality of the picture itself has also improved, and looks much more natural.

My god, you expect Apple to design a phone specifically for selfies???? Where is the world coming to?

 

[elmaco]

Jobs would approve

 

[Mac 128]

My god, you expect Apple to design a phone specifically for selfies???? Where is the world coming to?

When you consider Cook spent a fair amount of time ruminating on the virtues of the front facing camera burst mode during the keynote, you'll realize that Apple does indeed know on which side their bread is buttered.

 

[Tech198]

You know, everybody keeps pointing to a bezeless phone being a smaller phone as depicted in that link:

But the problem is, Apple says they don't have room for the headphone jack now. Apple is using all of that internal space. And while I agree that they might be able to reduce the size by re-engineering the phone, that's a significant dimensional change, which would be incredibly difficult to overcome in one generation, based on the state of the art components already crammed into the iPhone 7.

True, but i imagines the screen itself, or perhaps a thin layer of sensors stretching across the entire screen (kind of the pixels in an LCD more like a sheet) and software detects at which point their used as TouchID, 3D Touch etc..

 

[osaga]

So one day we will have no awareness of iPhone unlocking. It would be nice if our bodies naturally emitted a unique electrical signal that would allow our phones to recognize us by touch, but I don't think thats possible. Ok, what if the back of the phone was a large glass fingerprint scanner that was so fast we could just pick up the phone and use it. This seems more likely but that technology is probably a long way off.
The last option that Apple could probably start shipping really soon would be to have a ring that emitted an nfc signal to your phone when you pick it up. But no one wants to wear a ring all the time. Im not opposed to having a small chip imbedded into my hand but i'm sure i'm in the minority.
OR just make the existing home button scanner faster by a factor of 5 and that will be fine imho.

 

[normanfox]

so the iphone 8 next year will cost less than iphone 7? since apple saves money on home button and hardware underneath.

 

[jamesrick80]

The new freezing haptic home button will be old technology soon.

 

[jamesrick80]

You know, everybody keeps pointing to a bezeless phone being a smaller phone as depicted in that link:

But the problem is, Apple says they don't have room for the headphone jack now. Apple is using all of that internal space. And while I agree that they might be able to reduce the size by re-engineering the phone, that's a significant dimensional change, which would be incredibly difficult to overcome in one generation, based on the state of the art components already crammed into the iPhone 7.

The phone in the left looks like a samsung galaxy device with curved edge to edge bezels...so this is what iPhone fanatics want......

 

[subjonas]

I like this. The new home button took a brief adjustment to get used to the haptic push but now it feels entirely natural. I powered my phone off the other day and was caught off guard when I pressed the home button and didn't feel it "press". I'm ready for a completely virtual home button with TouchID all being part of a truly edge to edge screen.

Well the iPhone 7's home button is already half way there. It's not a physical button any more. It's the next logical evolution.

Forgive me if this was already talked about in this thread, but isn't getting rid of the physically indented "button" very different than replacing the physical click with a haptic click? Whether the button is really being pressed or just mimicked with pressure sensitivity and a haptic motor doesn't make a functional difference to me, but one thing I don't want to lose is the ability to feel where to place my finger before I actually press the button. That tiny detail was actually one of the main reasons I switched over to iPhone from Android many years back. I was tired of handling my Android phone gingerly out of fear of accidentally pressing one of the 3 haptic buttons on the bezel, also having to look at the buttons to press them. I wanted only one home button on the bezel, and I wanted it to be physical. I knew the 'back' and 'menu' buttons didn't belong there. So I fear if the home button becomes physically indistinguishable from the rest of the surface, I'll be back to the same old problems of pressing it on accident and having to look at it to press it (the scenario I'm thinking of for not looking at the home button while pressing it is when I'm done using my phone, or if while using it my attention is called elsewhere, I'll often be looking up while pressing the home button then the power button as I'm putting it in my pocket). Are there rumors as to how Apple might implement this so that this doesn't become an issue?

Edit- Also wanted to add, I'm also concerned that getting rid of the top and bottom bezels will leave no place to grip the phone, particularly when holding the phone in landscape.

 

[melendezest]

A luddite in the sense that he and some others are challenging the notion of Apple even considering the removal of the home button (which is ridiculous). If we could answer the question of how it would work today, we'd all be working in Cupertino...

Back to your point, what you're saying is that there's already precedent for Apple to conceivably release multiple versions of the iPhone form factor: the standard and plus versions with traditional home button placement, and perhaps a special edition with reduced bezels and home button embedded in the screen per this new patent. Why not, right?

Don't think he was challenging the notion per se, but I won't speak for him and will leave it at that.

As for the notion of multiple iPhones, I agree. There is no reason to not have multiple form factors. Given the comoditization of smartphones and their features, I believe Apple should expand their portfolio sideways instead of trying to reinvent the (click) wheel with every iteration.

I wish they'd done that with the Mac as well: give us a traditional, upgradeable tower as well as the (G4) Tube, and upgradeable cMBPs as well as the thin, sealed stuff.

But alas...

Start selling trucks again, Apple, dammit!!!

 

[0007776]

Sounds interesting, hopefully they start including wireless headphones with the iPhone as well so I can willingly buy it without a headphone jack.

 

[JGRE]

When you consider Cook spent a fair amount of time ruminating on the virtues of the front facing camera burst mode during the keynote, you'll realize that Apple does indeed know on which side their bread is buttered.

Yeah, you are right, but selfies and imicons (or how the call the damn things) and stickers....food for the brain-dead.

 

[recoil80]

Just further confirms what's coming soon. No bezels, no home button, touch ID in the screen... it's gonna be tough to wait for this to be released.

At least 12 months before I'll have mine, can't wait!!

 

[NT1440]

It's not strictly a problem. We can get along just fine without. I just feel it would be an improvement on design. Having the screen size of a plus with the pocket ability of the 4.7" iPhone model would improve usability.

I guess I'll ask this a different way. What do the bezels in the current phone do for you (or anyone else)? To me they just take up space and they've just kind of always been there so I live with it.

Being someone that likes to look through the teardown of every new model, the bezels fit the plethora of components in the phone. Things like the taptic engine and the controller/ribbon assembly for the home button. Now obviously over time these components shrink, but I wouldn't want a half assed taptic engine just to make the "chin" of the phone go away.

 

[Iamjoelh]

The United States Patent and Trademark Office today granted Apple a patent that describes a Touch ID sensor which could effectively detect and read a user's fingerprints through other components of the smartphone, "such as display stacks and touch screens" (via AppleInsider). While going unspecified, the technology aligns with the current rumors for the iPhone 8, which is expected to eliminate the Home Button for good and integrate various pieces of the smartphone directly into the display, including Touch ID.

Described in the new patent, there are many reasons Apple is looking to integrate Touch ID into the iPhone's screen, "not the least of which is an interest in avoiding assigning valuable surface space exclusively to an component that may only be used briefly during the process of identifying the user." But the company still had to face multiple issues when building the new technology, namely a "blurring of the electric field" that brought about a loss of resolution of the fingerprint images as they were being transferred through the space between the Touch ID sensor and the iPhone's screen.

To combat the gap between where the user places their finger, and the technology reading the fingerprint data under the display, Apple's patent proposes the use of electrostatic lenses, which are described as including "one or more patterned conductive layer(s)." In an example laid out by the patent, the position, relative voltage, and shapes of the patterned conductive layer or layers can be altered to shape the electric field specifically associated with the user's fingerprint, and the information can be held "in the region between the contact surface of the capacitive fingerprint sensor and the array of capacitive sensing elements."

Apple's patent aims to reduce the spread of a fingerprint's electric field using electrostatic lenses​

The collected data would help improve the resolution of the user's fingerprint, despite the distance between the Touch ID sensing module and the place on the iPhone display where they place their finger. In the patent, Apple notes that the specific setting and location for these electrostatic lenses depend on the "geometry of the consumer electronics device and the effects of any intervening components," but touchscreens and display stacks are mentioned by name multiple times.

As is usual with patents, it is unclear whether the electrostatic lens technology will show up in any future Apple device at all, much less one set to debut in less than a year, but its descriptive ability to fuel one of the iPhone 8's biggest rumors is interesting all the same. Apple appears to have been working on the patent for a few years now, since it was originally filed on September 9, 2014, with inventor credit going to Jean-Marie Bussat.

Article Link: New Apple Patent Describes Fingerprint Sensor That Could Work Through Display

[doublepost=1475675471][/doublepost]Its for the Apple Watch and secure payments.

 

[rsdotscot]

Apple have stuck to the S cycle since the 2nd gen iPhone.

I hate to be a pedant, but the first 'S' phone was the 3GS, and that was the third gen iPhone.
[doublepost=1475680309][/doublepost]

That looks bloody awful.

 

[AsherN]

I am thinking if inside an app, they would just need to implement the multi finger input like the iPad to go back to the home instead of using a physical home button.
Otherwise, they would use the assistive touch currently deployed under the accessibility menu settings.

(BTW, the Caterhan 7 still does not have power steering.)

iPhone and iPad have different use case. It's impossible to use the iPad one-handed, making multi-finger gestures easier. But try a multi-finger gesture while holding your phone one-handed.

 

[kdarling]

[doublepost=1475675471][/doublepost]Its for the Apple Watch and secure payments.

That would be a good first application on a smaller scale than doing it for a phone.

However, the patent itself does use a picture of an iPhone as its target example.

 

[B4U]

iPhone and iPad have different use case. It's impossible to use the iPad one-handed, making multi-finger gestures easier. But try a multi-finger gesture while holding your phone one-handed.

Well, my hand is small enough to do that even on the smaller screen of 6s (hence I am a strong supporter for the smaller screen 4" phone). So I am confident that I can definitely perform said task with the plus models.

 

[apolloa]

Being someone that likes to look through the teardown of every new model, the bezels fit the plethora of components in the phone. Things like the taptic engine and the controller/ribbon assembly for the home button. Now obviously over time these components shrink, but I wouldn't want a half assed taptic engine just to make the "chin" of the phone go away.

Why have you added my name to your quote? Because I never typed that and if I click on the link to my comment, it's a totally different comment and has never been edited.
Are you changing people's comments now and then replying to them?
[doublepost=1475688943][/doublepost]

You know, everybody keeps pointing to a bezeless phone being a smaller phone as depicted in that link:

But the problem is, Apple says they don't have room for the headphone jack now. Apple is using all of that internal space. And while I agree that they might be able to reduce the size by re-engineering the phone, that's a significant dimensional change, which would be incredibly difficult to overcome in one generation, based on the state of the art components already crammed into the iPhone 7.

Apple isn't very good at engineering or is so obsessed with thinness, as in 1mm thinner then the competition that they have no space.
What excuse would you give for the iPhone Plus? It's bigger then the Note 5 let alone the 7.

 

[NT1440]

Why have you added my name to your quote? Because I never typed that and if I click on the link to my comment, it's a totally different comment and has never been edited.
Are you changing people's comments now and then replying to them?

Oh god, sorry about that. I've been having issues with quoting lately on these forums where I'll get an error message, then it ends up doing a double quote of multiple people (not to mention the way the webpage jumps around when using an iPad Pro keyboard). I think I highlighted and deleted one of the posts of yours I already quoted but didn't delete all the way to the user. Sorry about that, I'll correct it now.

I've corrected it now, sorry about that!