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New Apple Stores and Closings

Apple has been making it harder and harder for resellers to keep on Apples Standards.

If you visit an Apple Store and compare it to a reseller you will see the Apple Store looks like a GAP store, while the reseller looks like an Old Navy store. Apple cares about its image on all boards, so this doesn't surprise me at all. However I do feel that Apple should help the reseller out to a degree. Selling Products to the Apple Stores at a cheaper rater then to reseller is just unfair practice.

It is clear that since Apple opened its Retail Stores its trying to kick its reseller out slowly. Resellers carry PC products as well and Apple does not like this at all and for good reason (duh). The resellers seem to get the short end of the stick, this does not surprise me that resellers are closing shop. It also happen in the PC world, though you do not see people making a big deal out of it. :rolleyes:

Think of this, which store would do a better job promoting Apple services and products, an Apple Store or reseller. Have any reseller stores think of converting to an Apple Store, if that is indeed possible. :)
 
numediaman said:
Concerning independents: often the problem is that they do not give Mac people are good reason to frequent them. What a good Apple indy needs is different items that are not necessarily directly related to the Mac -- audio equipment, more printers and scanners, etc. This would also bring in more PC people who would shop for these items, and, of course, play with the Macs.
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Or they can sell previous generation or refurbished Apple products - There is absolutely no disgrace selling them, as a matter of fact I purchased a refurbished dual-2GHz G5 from SmallDog and I have been so happy that I just extended my Apple Care. They also have a plenty of 3G iPod 40GB and ADC 20-inch Display with discounted prices and I am very tempted. I am sure that a reseller can sustain business by not trying to be like an Apple Store.

As for the case of MACadam, I have never known until reading about it from MacMinute a while back, and I couldn't stand how the owner got so melodramatic about the situation - he somehow believes that owning an independent Apple store is a mission. I have an impression that he is not a sort of person who can make a rational business decision. Of course, I am not defending Apple's business practice in general here.
 
B

We had a bad ass expensive trolling mac/PC dealer in the neighborhood but luckily closed en few years back. Now we have still 1 Mac/PC dealer and i never want to enter his store, he's even worse. I don't really want to but now i buy my Apple kit online.

Belgium NEEDS an Applestore Steve, pleeeeeaaaas :eek:
 
hmmm... I can't help but feel sorry for the retailers in some degree, especially when they can claim something as long as 16 years of service towards the mac community and not have gone out of buisness in that time. This going against the other claims of users who have visited their stores would suggest they might have been crappy, but in those 16 years they must have been doing SOMETHING right to keep them in buisness too.

However with the introduction of the apple store apple really is putting themselves in a position where they can call the shots. The stores are as much apple as is anything else, their wonderful, they seem to symbolize apple itself, quick easy and friendly. The reseller stores that I've gone to (never been to a mac reseller honestly but I've seen more then enough regular resellers...) their mostly dark, dingy, and sell outdated crap at a high price and then there's the new things that are even worse. Yes I do find the occasional exception, that is just wonderful but still, those have been few and far between for me.

Going back to apple however I'm not suprised about their practices in any way shape or form, they make perfect sense. Maintain the apple stores first, make sure they you're doing the best, then take care of the rest. Apple only has so much to go around in their product and I'd assume the number of customers that go to an applestore greatly exceed that of any other mac reseller, so it makese sense to send the largest portion, if not all, of your goods to the place that has the higher chance of getting their goods sold. It's unfortunate that a number of mac resellers might be going out of buisness because of this, but there are still a number that remain. All of the mac resellers that just died were the first I've heard of them, but I see smalldog still running around happily.

I'll just echo what was heard overall though, if you're a good seller and can provide something better then the apple store, you'll last, plain and simple, despite the additional hardships provided. Even if you don't get the new products at the same time that doesn't mean you can still sell them once you do get them. The apple stores have definately upped the bar, yet if your store can exceed that, odds are you'll stay. If you can't, buisness will speak for itself and you go out of buisness.
 
One correction to the original story. The news about the opening of the five new stores was broken not by AppleInsider, but right here on MacRumors post #531. AppleInsider got their info from me. Aside from the Oklahoma City store, which had previously been leaked by a tipster to infoAppleStore, this is all new information gleaned from watching Apple's own website's job listings. No major secrets; just staying on top of info Apple releases.

As to the passing of the two resellers, let me say my two cents regarding Macadam. Having lived in San Francisco since the mid-seventies, I became aware of Macadam early on and frequented this store for years. While I mourn its passing as an old haunt, I don't miss going there. It was designed to meet the needs of macheads, not encourage new customers or the causal computer buyer. If you like going to a rough neighborhood to a store that looks straight out of skid-row, Army-Navy surplus design school - then you will miss shopping there. Mr. Santos never made a serious effort at expanding the base of the store or making it more welcoming to new computer users. If he wants to blame Steve Jobs for all of his problems, that's his privilege, but all the support in the world from Apple wouldn't have transformed Macadam into the success that is shown in the two new San Francisco Apple stores. If Apple is screwing resellers in the delivery of goods, then I'm all for forcing them to stop, but resellers have their own responsibilities for selling Apple products. Sitting in a dump of a store waiting for the masses to bust down your door isn't the way to go.
 
achmafooma said:
Hmmmm... the Washington, DC metro area already has stores in Tyson's Corner (the first Apple Store), Clarendon, Montgomery Mall, and Bethesda (mini store)...

Do we really need this new one in Arlington (Pentagon City)?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for expansion (and Tysons always has a lot of customers when I stop by), but adding a new store in a market with four already when so many places have none at all? Odd.

I know tons of Mac-interested people in the Roanoke, VA area who can't justify going all the way to DC or Richmond to experience/buy Apple products, and nobody else in the area carries them. Those are the kinds of places Apple should go now, since the major markets are largely covered.
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While there may be 4, the one in Pentagon City will be ideal for Metro Riders who live in DC. I used to live in DC, and would never go to Tyson's Corner, or Bethesda, but putting one in Pentagon City is genious!!
 
Meanwhile, ThinkSecret reports that two independent Apple resellers are shutting down and blaming Apple for their inability to continue.
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I hope this should be a wakeup call to all of those stores that sell apple products, yet are clueless about the way apple products work (for instance, a salesman saying that only an HP iPod works with windows.)People go to the apple store for competent salespeople, not the guy that just got fired from the carwash next door.
 
Florida

That's funny some major cities don't have ANY, and yet there are 2 in Orlando. They should move the one from Millenia to Florida mall, instead of opening another one. Anyway, I've since moved to Jacksonville Fl, and we're getting out OWN mac store soon! One less reason to drive to orlando! :D
 
achmafooma said:
I know tons of Mac-interested people in the Roanoke, VA area who can't justify going all the way to DC or Richmond to experience/buy Apple products, and nobody else in the area carries them. Those are the kinds of places Apple should go now, since the major markets are largely covered.
Click to expand...
This is already happening to some degree. Even 2 years ago, I would not have imagined an apple store in central virginia. The catch is that Apple looks for urban-style, pedestrian-crowded shopping areas. It wasn't until Short Pump Towne Center was built that richmond got a store. Unfortunately, i guess that less urban areas would have to wait for something to happen, or drive 2 hours...But then again, what is the point of saturation for places like DC?
 
As a person who works for an Apple reseller I have to say not all of us are bad! We provide sales and service for Mac's as our primary business, we are one of the few competent repair shops you can go to have your Mac repaired in a 40 mile radius.
You need to understand that resellers do get the shaft when it comes to new releases. When the iPod mini came out we ordered several for our store the day of the release and we had to wait a month before they came in. We have lost many sales because Apple can't supply its distributors, we have had to send people to Menloe Park to buy iPods since we can't get any without having to wait 1-2 weeks. Its inexcusable on Apple's part that they can't give their resellers a fair chance to have new products.
 
d.perel said:
This is already happening to some degree. Even 2 years ago, I would not have imagined an apple store in central virginia. The catch is that Apple looks for urban-style, pedestrian-crowded shopping areas. It wasn't until Short Pump Towne Center was built that richmond got a store. Unfortunately, i guess that less urban areas would have to wait for something to happen, or drive 2 hours...But then again, what is the point of saturation for places like DC?
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Saturation works. It creates an atmosphere about the stores. It means that if you live in the New York, San Francisco, Boston, LA, Chicago, or Washington metro area there will likely be a store within easy access to millions of people. It is also in these major urban centers where new fashion and buying trends are set - not in Roanoke. No knock on smaller cities, but it makes sense to start out concentrating your resources where the people are.
 
Just one in SC. That's all I'm asking. Or maybe one in Augusta GA?! What does Apple have against us?! There are 2 in NC and 2 in GA? We said we were sorry for that whole Civil War thing! C'mon man, don't hold a grudge!
 
We are a local store in Belgium. We sell photographic equipement and video at amateur and professional level.

We also sell Apple-computers. I can tell you everything about how Apple treats the smaller resellers.

1) You have to sell at least 100 Macs a year before you can buy directly from Apple. (we sell 30 a year tops)

2) Now we buy them from Techdata, a distributer of Computerequipment often at the same price Apple sells them online. So if we want to compete, we sell them with 0% profit. We're not stupid. So we add extra 5-10% profit. wich makes us more expensive than the Applestore.

3) If we would sell more than 100 Macs a year, and we would like to buy demomaterial.. we have to pay full price.. Heck, even the folders and stickers had to be paid.. (we get this for free with other vendors)

4) Recently, a couple of clients wanted the new Dual 2.5 Ghz. We sold none because we had to wait from June till December before the first ordered model would arrive. The customers cancelled their order offcourse.

5) Apple simply isn't interested in selling computers in local reseller channels. Still thanx to this,. the great public isn't familiar with Macintosh in Belgium. They still are full with things like it's too expensive,.. not compatible,... and you cannot buy it in the neighbourhood!!!!!!!

6) why do we still sell Apple? What the better alternative? WINDOWS????? HAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAHHa gimme a break (so pure idealism is the driving force, not the profit, not the good relations with Apple)
 
A poster above was correct, most smaller PC stores are going out of business as well. What people are missing is that as computer prices drop, its harder to make money if there are 3 layers to the process of selling it: manufacturing, distribution, and resellers. Every one is taking a smaller and smaller cut. This is the natural progression; Apple wasn't the first one to do direct sales. If everyone wants them to be more price competitive with Dell and HP and Gateway, they need to promote sellind direct, expecially to people who know what they want, by sending them to their website.

I have never seen on a normal day that Apple has given below-MSRP pricing on their products from their stores. The only time I've seen that is their special promo nights for OS releases. So if 3rd parties are concerned about Apple charging less than them on a daily basis, then maybe they should charge the MSRP rate; otherwise they are doing a disservice to Apple by making an already-premium product cost even more.

Other posters were right; no one has a god-given right to sell any particular product or to be in a particular line of business. If they can't compete the way they are, adapt. But as the computer market becomes more comoditized, we see more and more dealers, whether PC or Mac disappearing. You don't hear the PC dealers complaining of bad practices. Apple's reseller agreements aren't indefinate, they renew every year or two with new terms. If the reseller doesn't like the terms that Apple gives them, they have no right to complain. It is a privilage to a end reseller to be able to sell a product.

As far as someone mentioning MacAdams having a 3% credit card charge (or discount for cash), as someone with a merchant account, the merchant agreement refuses to let you give your customer a different price for cash. You can get the merchant in BIG trouble for this. It doesn't stop us from offering that to our customers, but if they point that out, we dont charge the extra 3% (and we only do that on volume discounts, there is no 3% on single item orders). Its a charge that of course all us stores like to add to cover the merchant fees, but its not legal and is technically dirty.
 
Ge4-ce said:
We are a local store in Belgium. We sell photographic equipement and video at amateur and professional level.

We also sell Apple-computers. I can tell you everything about how Apple treats the smaller resellers.

1) You have to sell at least 100 Macs a year before you can buy directly from Apple. (we sell 30 a year tops)

2) Now we buy them from Techdata, a distributer of Computerequipment often at the same price Apple sells them online. So if we want to compete, we sell them with 0% profit. We're not stupid. So we add extra 5-10% profit. wich makes us more expensive than the Applestore.

3) If we would sell more than 100 Macs a year, and we would like to buy demomaterial.. we have to pay full price.. Heck, even the folders and stickers had to be paid.. (we get this for free with other vendors)

4) Recently, a couple of clients wanted the new Dual 2.5 Ghz. We sold none because we had to wait from June till December before the first ordered model would arrive. The customers cancelled their order offcourse.

5) Apple simply isn't interested in selling computers in local reseller channels. Still thanx to this,. the great public isn't familiar with Macintosh in Belgium. They still are full with things like it's too expensive,.. not compatible,... and you cannot buy it in the neighbourhood!!!!!!!

6) why do we still sell Apple? What the better alternative? WINDOWS????? HAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAHHa gimme a break (so pure idealism is the driving force, not the profit, not the good relations with Apple)
Click to expand...

Don't know about over seas, but here in the US TechData's prices on Apple products are below Apples prices. For example, Mac Mini's have a $30 margin, PowerMacs and XServes around $100 or more.
 
dguisinger said:
Don't know about over seas, but here in the US TechData's prices on Apple products are below Apples prices. For example, Mac Mini's have a $30 margin, PowerMacs and XServes around $100 or more.
Click to expand...

Maybe if you buy big amounts of the same stuff!

And if I can count correctly.. If you get 100 bucks out of an Xserve, that's about the same 3% margin we have on Powermacs! 3%!! That's not even worth selling it! If one member of personel, orders it, unpacks the thing, check if it's complete, sell it to the customer, and give a brief explanation, you're allready loosing money that way. And then I don't mention the duds we get regulary, where you have to make 10 calls, send the computer back and forth 2 times, and when you promise to never sell a Mac again..

Problem is that people who buy an Xserve THINK you made about 600 bucks of profit out that thing. And they also ACT like you made a lot of money out of them. That's the whole problem here.
 
northbrook court?

I'm really surprised that they are putting an apple store in northbrook court. having worked in that mall, it's really dead. plus it's too close to old orchard. sure it may be very boutiquey, but I think they would have been much better off going out a little further out to hawthorne.
 
d.perel said:
But then again, what is the point of saturation for places like DC?
Click to expand...

I'd guess that Apple's analysis shows that saturation of those markets will yield greater returns. They seem pretty darned smart about evaluating markets before placing a store. If DC or NY or CA have several stores in a relatively small region, I'd bet that there making more money, getting more exposure, etc than they would opening stores in secondary or tertiary markets.

Of course, that doesn't do consumers any good in those smaller markets...
 
Ge4-ce said:
We are a local store in Belgium. We sell photographic equipement and video at amateur and professional level.

We also sell Apple-computers. I can tell you everything about how Apple treats the smaller resellers.

1) You have to sell at least 100 Macs a year before you can buy directly from Apple. (we sell 30 a year tops)

2) Now we buy them from Techdata, a distributer of Computerequipment often at the same price Apple sells them online. So if we want to compete, we sell them with 0% profit. We're not stupid. So we add extra 5-10% profit. wich makes us more expensive than the Applestore.

3) If we would sell more than 100 Macs a year, and we would like to buy demomaterial.. we have to pay full price.. Heck, even the folders and stickers had to be paid.. (we get this for free with other vendors)

4) Recently, a couple of clients wanted the new Dual 2.5 Ghz. We sold none because we had to wait from June till December before the first ordered model would arrive. The customers cancelled their order offcourse.

5) Apple simply isn't interested in selling computers in local reseller channels. Still thanx to this,. the great public isn't familiar with Macintosh in Belgium. They still are full with things like it's too expensive,.. not compatible,... and you cannot buy it in the neighbourhood!!!!!!!

6) why do we still sell Apple? What the better alternative? WINDOWS????? HAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAHHa gimme a break (so pure idealism is the driving force, not the profit, not the good relations with Apple)
Click to expand...

Aha, a fellow poster from Belgium.

As a matter of fact, I was going to write almost the same story. I recognise most of the things you write, and would like to add my own experience.

I used to work for a rather small, local Apple Centre in Belgium, between 1991 and 1997, until I started my own company. I sold the Apple gear, gave support to our customers, and went to our customer's homes and companies to install their newly bought computers and networks.
I can tell you that even back then the profit-margins were under 5%, actually bottom line no profit was made from selling computers (you couldn't even pay the staff from it). The profits came from repairs, support, periferals and software. So basically our store just sold the computers, and hoped the customers would come back for other things. In this manner the shop survived for almost 20 years (they started in the days of Apple II). Recently, when the Apple Store begun having success, they just quit. People go to the Apple store now for periferals and software, and repairs are handled directly by Apple. Having an Apple shop nowadays, is in my opinion just plain suicide.
 
dguisinger said:
A poster above was correct, most smaller PC stores are going out of business as well. What people are missing is that as computer prices drop, its harder to make money if there are 3 layers to the process of selling it: manufacturing, distribution, and resellers. Every one is taking a smaller and smaller cut. This is the natural progression; Apple wasn't the first one to do direct sales. If everyone wants them to be more price competitive with Dell and HP and Gateway, they need to promote sellind direct, expecially to people who know what they want, by sending them to their website.

I have never seen on a normal day that Apple has given below-MSRP pricing on their products from their stores. The only time I've seen that is their special promo nights for OS releases. So if 3rd parties are concerned about Apple charging less than them on a daily basis, then maybe they should charge the MSRP rate; otherwise they are doing a disservice to Apple by making an already-premium product cost even more.

Other posters were right; no one has a god-given right to sell any particular product or to be in a particular line of business. If they can't compete the way they are, adapt. But as the computer market becomes more comoditized, we see more and more dealers, whether PC or Mac disappearing. You don't hear the PC dealers complaining of bad practices. Apple's reseller agreements aren't indefinate, they renew every year or two with new terms. If the reseller doesn't like the terms that Apple gives them, they have no right to complain. It is a privilage to a end reseller to be able to sell a product.
Click to expand...

Brilliant post. The resellers expectations just don't reflect today's business realities. Things change. Things can't always be the way they were. No matter how much a reseller thinks they should be when viewed through romanticism.
 
Ge4-ce said:
Maybe if you buy big amounts of the same stuff!

And if I can count correctly.. If you get 100 bucks out of an Xserve, that's about the same 3% margin we have on Powermacs! 3%!! That's not even worth selling it! If one member of personel, orders it, unpacks the thing, check if it's complete, sell it to the customer, and give a brief explanation, you're allready loosing money that way. And then I don't mention the duds we get regulary, where you have to make 10 calls, send the computer back and forth 2 times, and when you promise to never sell a Mac again..

Problem is that people who buy an Xserve THINK you made about 600 bucks of profit out that thing. And they also ACT like you made a lot of money out of them. That's the whole problem here.
Click to expand...

I was wrong:
APPLE COMPUTER - Apple Xserve G5 Cluster Node
Apple Xserve G5 Cluster Node - Rack - 2 x PPC G5 2.3 GHz - RAM 512 MB - HD 1 x 80 GB - LAN EN, Fast EN, Gigabit EN - Apple MacOS X Server 10.3 10 Client Edition - Monitor : none - 1 U . — details
Product Note: Requires Authorization From Vendor
11 Available $2,431.57


APPLE COMPUTER - Apple Xserve G5
Apple Xserve G5 - Rack - 2 x PPC G5 2.3 GHz - RAM 1 GB - HD 1 x 80 GB - CD-RW / DVD - LAN EN, Fast EN, Gigabit EN - Apple MacOS X Server 10.3 Unlimited-Client Edition - Monitor : none - 1 U . — details
Product Note: Requires Authorization From Vendor
Check ETA $3,242.40
 
Definitely is sad, whatever the truth is. I've been to a couple Apple resellers in the Hollywood area and they were both really great, friendly people. The only problem with them is that there really isn't a lot of business coming in. One store was still selling the old displays and didn't have the new ones in yet, and a lot of the stuff was marked up a tiny bit.

Personally, i do like the reseller stores because a lot of them are run by people who really know the Macintosh inside and out. A lot of the people I've seen at the Apple stores recently seem to be younger -- but still a bit knowledgeable.

Bottom line is it's always sad when stores close down and jobs are lost. I wonder if the employees will apply at the Apple store?

Fishes,
narco.
 
florida is gonna have as many stores as california soon. there's already 3 within 2 hours from me [in miami]. the falls in miami, the aventura one, and the boca raton one.
 
Good stores thrive

The former Apple sellers people mentioned not being able to sell 100 Macs a year, and couldn't get discounts because of this: excuse me, but what business could survive that doesn't sell 100 of something all year long? This sounds like a hobby club instead of a business.

Like others have noted, a good and well run store would thrive. I live in New York City and we have a huge, popular and super busy Apple store. Yet the local Apple specialist Tekserve (tekserve.com) is doing just fine. Blaming Apple for the demise of two California stores is just passing the buck.

I bought a new Mac Mini there and iWork two days after they were released and the store was packed with stock. They even had a Mini Party to launch the new computer.

Tekserve provides excellent service, hires knowledgeable sales and service staff, and has plenty of stock. I always prefer taking my business to them because the store is locally owned and very much a part of the social community of the city.

For example I need two more copies of iWork (I love Pages and am moving my document workflow from Word to Pages). I'll stop by the store on the way to work on Monday and pick up two copies. Even if they didn't have it in stock, Tekserve would take by order and get it to me when they received it. (But I know they will have it in stock.)

There are some other Apple stores in New York that have not done so well lately, but they were not well run in the first place.
 
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