New Apple Stores?

[MikeTheC]

GAHHHH!!!!

Still nothing in the mid-west!!

I am still 7 hours away from the nearest Apple Store!!

I understand what you mean. I don't have to drive 7 hours here in Florida, but I do have to drive about 2.5 each way.

I think Apple world benefit immensly if they realised that America is NOT the whole world. It would be great to see some serious marketing and advertising and placement of new stores in Main cities OUTSIDE the US.

OK...the outside the US stuff...you guys need to quit crying already. The Japan store is going to open soon. That was absolutely the best choice for the first non-US store, and more will follow.

Stats go two ways. You can say "50% of Apple's sales are international..." or you can say "50% of Apple's sales are in the US alone."

America is not the whole world? Ohmigod, alert the news media!!!

Seriously, I doubt Apple would ignore the rest of the world. They are a major, international corporation. While all corporations tend to be home-country-centric, Apple has traditionally scored higher marks than many others, especially when compared to Microsoft in the area of language and alphabet support.

At last - it seems they will open a store in england.

It'd only take a maximum of 10 stores to cover most of the UKs large shopping malls.... or a similar amount to cover most the UKs main shopping streets.

The UK has 61million people, which is roughly 1/5 of the US, so surely they can afford to open 1/7 of the amount of stores they have currently in the US in the UK?

The Apple userbase is pitifully small in the UK, mainly because Apple hikes the price up so damn much - and also the lack of advertising around for Apple.

I'm hoping that apple does open some more international stores - even if they were only a few per country....

I would not presume to tell you about things in a country I've never been to, but how much of the price point has to do with taxes and not just Apple arbitrarilly charging more?

Great turnout yesterday morning for the Grand Opening of the North Point store. I was about #50 in line (out of probably 500) at 10:00. Nice to have the free t-shirt, but the store is a little small. I like the Lenox Square store better, though North Point is a little closer to me.

I've been to the Lenox Mall location. That is one huge freakin' mall, but the Apple store there is one of the tiniest I've seen. I've been to Tampa International Plaza and Millenia Mall (Florida), Lennox (Georgia), and Legacy Village (Ohio). The largest is the Tampa store. It is a bigger store and doesn't seem so claustrophobic. They have a really nice demonstration area near the rear, and typically an excellent assortment of discount products.

Now, speaking of Florida (which is where I live), Apple definitely needs to pay attention to us as we are (south Florida generally, southwest Florida specifically) the fastest growing area in the U.S. Southwest Florida is also home to average as well as high-income locations, such as Sanibel, Captiva, Naples, and Marco Island.

I think part of the reason we're seeing (especially on that handy map posted earlier) so much future growth in Florida is because of the literally exponential growth we're seeing as a result of a growing indigenous population and a massive influx of people from other states (something to the tune of 1000+ per day at least in this area, don't know about the rest of the state). The median age in Florida is now mid 40s and it is dropping. We are having to open schools for all ranges at a horrific rate. Also, the state was considering increasing property taxes, gas taxes and such (we have no income tax) but elected not to, of it's own volition, because the growth rate is so high that we're getting more money into the coffers based solely on growth than we would by upping the rates.

Speaking of taxes, etc., we are acquiring a large portion of California's departing population for financial reasons in addition to any climate reasons which have existed right along.

Anyhow, I am seriously considering getting Apple-certified and hope to find a sufficient infrastructure here to maybe court Apple for computer work... Hmmm...

Mike

 

[AliensAreFuzzy]

GAHHHH!!!!

Still nothing in the mid-west!!

I am still 7 hours away from the nearest Apple Store!!

I'm with you. Personally I think they should put and Apple Store in APPLEton, WI.
I'm sick of having to spend a day driving to go to the nearest Apple Store

 

[MikeTheC]

Sayhey, I am sorry but I have to take considerable issue with you on your points regarding the negative effects on local retailers.

First, while I don't think the current retail stores are the main contributing factor in harm done to Apple 3rd party retailers at present, that is only because they are too new a phenominon to have established a significant negative impact. However...

Apple has engaged in practices which have largely obliterated 3rd party dealers and VARs and this is something that has been going on for YEARS. There used to be several Apple dealers in my area. There are none now, and haven't been in probably 5 years. Unless you're from some other planet, you know full well this is pretty-well universally the case across the U.S.

This has far less to do with Apple's declining market share than it has to do with Apple removing the means whereby these companies can make money and therefore survive. Apple shrunk the profit margins allowed to the dealers such that only the most expensive and least-sold products were significantly profitable. Apple changed their repair policies to the point now that there's little point in servicing a Mac -- new or out of warranty -- because either you cannot get paid to do repairs on systems, are restricted in how many component change-outs you can do on a system within a specific period, or are limited in how much labor you can get -- sometimes none at all -- when doing repairs, and if it's out of warranty, getting the parts is extremely expensive and the difficulty increases at an unbelievable rate the further back you go in the generations of Macs out there. And don't even try to imply I'm talking about truly ancient systems, because this situation affects even moderately older systems dating back even 5 years.

I have worked for an Apple VAR myself as a field installer and service tech and (not at the same time, of course) did side work for another regular Apple retailer. Both went belly up within about 2 years of each other after years of successful operations for exactly the same reasons. This is NOT about poor business strategy on the part of the dealers.

The argument you put forth, specifically:

"I do know that if a couple of resellers go under because they can't figure out how to expand the market and get new customers, then as much as I don't like it - it isn't the end of the mac."​

is predicated on the theory that a dealer in any area can generate high-volume traffic like a Wal-Mart, Target, et al. This argument's prima facia is flawed. Much as any of us here are dyed-in-the-wool Mac users, let's face it: the Mac market is a LIMITED market for anyone selling into it. You cannot shovel customers into your store if you cannot offer them a product they want to buy. Period. And when you're dealing with the general public, you're not dealing with a facts-based business (i.e.: You don't need a PC just to use Office because the apps exist for the Mac as well), but an opinion-based business (i.e.: I'm not going to buy a Mac because nobody uses them and I have to have a compatible system.)

Without regard to the technical side of this and the merrits that a Mac has because of it's OS over a WinTel system, you cannot sell MORE of something you can sell BARELY ANY of. It is NOT the dealer's responsibility to evangelize the Mac platform to the entire world, which is just about what it would take to change the world-view of computing platforms, recent events of exploits, hacks, and mega-loads of viruses for Window notwithstanding. That job is Apple's.

Apple's retail practices are predatory, and they have always been. I think this is based on an initial knee-jerk reaction to Apple dealers of the 80s who largely were trying, in those days, to put the screws to Apple. Don't anyone even try to argue against that because I have been around long enough to have seen it happen first-hand.

However, I would also argue that there's NOBODY out there who is more dedicated to the proper presentation of Apple's equipment than Apple. To this day, if you go into a CompUSA or MicroCenter or the like and ask to be shown a computer, they will NOT take you to the Mac side of the house unless you happen to get one of Apple's store-within-a-store reps. They will NOT give you accurate answers regarding Macs, and that's largely assuming they can or will give you accurate answers about computers at all. This is no more than a mild version of what Apple dealers in the 80s would do, and at least at this point these non-Mac-oriented reps have the excuse that Windows is more ubiquitious, more popular, and that they sell more software for it.

Mike

 

[Sayhey]

Mike,

great points, but let me take issue with a little of your post. First, let me say that I don't dispute that it is hard times for some Apple resellers in this market. It is hard on a lot of computer resellers as the profit margins on each machine go down. That is not just something that is a problem in the Apple side of computers, but as Apple's market share has declined it has certainly put a pinch on their resellers. I'm am also sure that among computer makers and resellers of all stripes there is a constant battle for share of the profits. Apple may well have been cutthroat in its relations to resellers as it attempted to maintain profitability. I don't think we have any real disagreements about any of this - other than if you only see the resellers side of this problem.

Be that as it may, what I do take issue with is the idea that it is not the resellers job to "evangelize" the world for Apple products. I think this idea of some kind of passive relationship to the computer buying public is partly responsible for the mess Apple is in. It smacks of an attitude that if Apple will just make great enough stuff then the PC buying hordes will just breakdown the resellers doors in trying to buy their products. Retail outlets that work that way are doomed to failure.

Let me give you a case in point. I live in San Francisco and have spent a considerable amount of time (and some money as well) shopping at Macadam. This is one of the resellers suing Apple. Now Macadam is a store to make any computer geek happy. It is in the basement of a building in the south of market area not far from some of the poorer sections of the city. It is a store that reminds one of a Army/Navy surplus store in that stacks of stuff are strewn all over the place and in the dim light one can have grand old time both looking for great macs and mac software and have people who know everything about a macintosh make you feel like an uneducated clod. It so happens I like the store. Or I did before the started their lawsuit.

What such an approach to selling Apple products doesn't do is get their products before people who like a pleasant, well-lit shopping experience. It also doesn't do anything to attract buyers who aren't already convinced they want to buy a mac. In short, they don't do anything that the new Apple outlets try to do. I know there are many reasons for this approach. One important factor is that few, if any, of the Apple resellers have the kind of capital to put out in order to construct the kind of stores that Apple is building. That doesn't mean these new type of stores aren't needed. As I've said in other posts, the only way for Apple to break out of a death spiral in this Wintel world is to innovate across the board. That means better products than the competition and better ways of presenting and selling those superior products. The stores are only a part of what is needed in a long and difficult climb out of the hole Apple is in. What in not needed is a continuation of the same kind of sales environment that helped turn people off to what have almost always been great machines.

Lastly, I don't want Apple resellers to go under. I would love to see a place where both Apple stores and Apple resellers do well. I would love to see Apple and their sales partners come to a better understanding without airing their dirty linen in public (something that helps neither side.) But, Mike, I still maintain that for me as a simple consumer the bottom line is that I want to see Apple computers to continue to be available to me. If a reseller can't adapt in this environment then as much as it would pain me to see Macadam or any other reseller go out of business, it is nothing compared to the depression it would cause me, and I think millions of others, if Apple went out of business.

 

[Dave00]

Despite Apple stores in fairly nearby Emeryville and Burlingame
[...]

Not to mention Walnut Creek. Hey, what happened to the Apple Store they were supposed to open in Pittsburgh? Not too long ago there was supposedly a monster opening for an Apple Store job in the Shadyside area of Pittsburgh. I want my apple store!

--D

-- Edit: I spoke too soon. Although Pittsburgh wasn't listed in the original list o' new stores, there are several job openings for Pittsburgh at Apple. Bring it on!

 

[MikeTheC]

Hey Seyhey!

Great post. I read it and I think you're right: we agree more than we disagree. Some thoughts on things...

Apple may well have been cutthroat in its relations to resellers as it attempted to maintain profitability. I don't think we have any real disagreements about any of this - other than if you only see the resellers side of this problem.

Be that as it may, what I do take issue with is the idea that it is not the resellers job to "evangelize" the world for Apple products... It smacks of an attitude that if Apple will just make great enough stuff then the PC buying hordes will just breakdown the resellers doors in trying to buy their products. Retail outlets that work that way are doomed to failure.

You know, this is exactly what happened with another famous computer company: Commodore. They had a runaway success with the C64, and when they released the Amiga, their attitude was "We're Commodore. We don't need to advertise. People will come to us." You and I would both, no doubt, agree that this was wrongheaded, and explains why they're no longer around.

I view it as being Apple's job to do nationwide and worldwide marketing of their products, and it is the responsibility of local retailers to market the products in their area of influence and to add value to the national campaigns by participating in them and giving customers excellent user experiences with the products. Now, if you're suggesting the dealers should participate in a sort of grass-roots effort of computer technology and platform education, well... that is something I could whole heartedly go along with.

Let me give you a case in point. I live in San Francisco and have spent a considerable amount of time (and some money as well) shopping at Macadam... Now Macadam is a store to make any computer geek happy. It is in the basement of a building... that reminds one of a Army/Navy surplus store...(has) people who know everything about a macintosh make you feel like an uneducated clod.

Sure. I understand that, and you're right: not all clientele would be satisfied with a store like that. It certainly would put off a lot of them. And I agree, as I said in my original post, one must ensure the products are marketed properly. That means in the right environs, and with the right sort of people. You want people who bring credibility to "the table", who are pleasant and are not "ivory tower eggheads."

I would probably add to that that the people you want representing Apple need to also inherently give that sense that "Mac OS is the better product and there is a reason it's better". This can be overdone with an aire of arrogance, but when done right, it comes off as people with a passion who seem to be the calm in a storm.

As a side note completely unrelated to this message, there are a large number of people at the computer call center at which I work who would have no problem with all computer dealers being like this Macadam you describe if only to screen out the idiots and the "because it's trendy" crowd and leave only the computer enthusiast. And, let me tell you, I have days where this is exactly how I feel. Ah, but I digress...

Lastly, I don't want Apple resellers to go under. I would love to see a place where both Apple stores and Apple resellers do well... it is nothing compared to the depression it would cause me, and I think millions of others, if Apple went out of business.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Mike

 

[Sayhey]

Apple Stores top $1 billion in sales

AppleInsider Exclusive
Apple's retail stores are expected to reach over $1 billion in revenue this year and $2 billion next year, according to prepared statements that were presented to Apple Retail employees during the company's quarterly retail store meeting on Sunday.

Over at ifoAppleStore they are saying

The mainstream press is reporting that Apple's retail stores achieved $1 billion in sales quicker than any retail operation in history. It took just three years, compared to four years by the previous record holder, The Gap. I reported this news back on April 22nd.

No word yet on profits from the stores for 2004 (the figures will be available in October,) but this is looking good.

Mike, I think we agree then? At least on most of it.

 

[whooleytoo]

GAHHHH!!!!

Still nothing in the mid-west!!

I am still 7 hours away from the nearest Apple Store!!

7 hours? I could get to the nearest Apple Store in less than that, and there isn't even any Apple Store in my country! (Though, admittedly, I'd have to wait a few months for it to open.. - Regent St. in London)

 

[Proudest Monkey]

Back in April upon learning of another Apple Store in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, i posted this on macnn;

The Apple Store locations in Minnesota seem as they are planning an attack on the entire area. Hopefully.

For instance, when I heard that the Mall of America Apple Store was going to be one of the first to open I was thrilled, I couldn't believe it. Most likely because it is a tourists destination and that store is more to get the word out and less for purchasing (purchased my lowly iMac there so long ago), but assumed it would be Minnesota’s only store.

Then the 2nd store in the area was to open, I assumed an affluent, growing suburb located on the metropolitan fringe (Woodbury, Eden Prairie, Maple Grove), with a new or remodeled mall – would be selected, but it was in Edina at Southdale. Edina is an affluent suburb but is an inner ring suburb and only 6.7 miles away from the Mall of America. This store is obviously for purchasing but Southdale Center itself recently completed a massive remodeling project because of the impacts Mall of America has had on the mall.

The next opening (according to monsters.com and appleinsider.com) is at the Rosedale Center in Roseville, also an inner ring suburb and only 25 miles from Mall of America and only 20 miles or so from Southdale. I find this interesting, especially since the Eden Prairie Center recently remodeled and added movie theaters, restaurants, etc, Maple Groves Shoppes at Arbor Lakes shopping center recently opened with space still available and Woodbury is building a similar shopping center and I imagine still space available for lease.

I’m worried about the inner-ring suburb locations because of the impact it will have on other Apple retailers, such as First Tech located on Hennepin Avenue in Minneapolis. That store is great, I love it, call and sey hi (612-374-8000, no I don't work for them). However store locations in inner-ring suburbs may kill independent retailers. Something Apple is already accused of, sort of.

Perhaps Apple is planning on locating in all these shopping centers and not killing the independents. That would mean that at some point in time, there would be 6 in the area. That’s a lot of Apple, and I like it.

I no longer believe that Apple will not kill the independents and I could certainly see them locating in the other 3 malls in the area. That would place 6 stores in the core of only 3 million people. Wal-Mart syndrome, lets be honest, this is Minnesota, Target syndrome.

 

[solaris]

Guys, there are no nead for you to cry for a missing Apple Store in the US.
Think of us Europeans! If I where to go to the nearest Apple Store I have to take a 15-16 hours flight from Oslo, Norway to the US East-coast (New York?)
Talk about distance!

Its about time they open some Apple Stores over here as well...

 

[whooleytoo]

Guys, there are no nead for you to cry for a missing Apple Store in the US.
Think of us Europeans! If I where to go to the nearest Apple Store I have to take a 15-16 hours flight from Oslo, Norway to the US East-coast (New York?)
Talk about distance!

And it would still probably be cheaper than buying here in Europe! </troll>

 

[looklost]

I live in the Chicago suburbs and their are 4 Apple stores in the
Chicagoland area. The closest one is in Oakbrook (15 minutes away) but it seems more like a satellite store than a full fledge store (Michigan Ave. now thats a store!). My point is instead of opening stores around the country then going back to fill in the gaps it seems like Apple opens a store in the area then opens another in the same area but puts some distance between the stores to have good coverage in that area. Saturation does very well in sales, this might suck if your hours from a store but this kind of sales technique has been very successful in the past for many companies.

The reason I live in the Chicago Metro area is because I do not what to have to drive for hours just to be where the action is.

 

[Proudest Monkey]

I no longer believe that Apple will not kill the independents and I could certainly see them locating in the other 3 malls in the area. That would place 6 stores in the core of only 3 million people. Wal-Mart syndrome, lets be honest, this is Minnesota, Target syndrome.

to further illustrate my point (and bc i was bored at work), here is a map that i have made quickly LINK!

 

[Proudest Monkey]

Saturation does very well in sales, this might suck if your hours from a store but this kind of sales technique has been very successful in the past for many companies.

well yeah, look at Wal-Mart. and everyone loves when Wal-Mart over saturates a market - especially those small towns that end up with all the vacant store fronts in their historic downtowns.

the best is when there are 3 towns, each of about 5000 people and each about 7 miles apart so each store gets a Wal-Mart. The 2 on the outside get their stores located on the highways that lead into the middle town so that after the downtowns have been closed down, Wal-Mart can close that middle store, leave the empty cow behind, and make even more money.

very successful - yes.
ethical -

 

[gopher]

Guys, there are no nead for you to cry for a missing Apple Store in the US.
Think of us Europeans! If I where to go to the nearest Apple Store I have to take a 15-16 hours flight from Oslo, Norway to the US East-coast (New York?)
Talk about distance!

Its about time they open some Apple Stores over here as well...

Oslo to New York isn't 15 hours! Oslo to Hong Kong maybe. Oslo to New York is 8 hours and 35 minutes via Continental airlines flight 39. Actually that goes to Newark NJ, but that is not far from an Apple Store, and not far from New York itself.

 

[Sayhey]

Guys, there are no nead for you to cry for a missing Apple Store in the US.
Think of us Europeans! If I where to go to the nearest Apple Store I have to take a 15-16 hours flight from Oslo, Norway to the US East-coast (New York?)
Talk about distance!

Its about time they open some Apple Stores over here as well...

Are there no Apple Centre stores in Norway? I know there are in Sweden and I think in Denmark. These stores seem to be a way to get Apple products sold in positive environment without Apple going through all the expense. Not to say there won't be many honest-to-goodness Apple stores in Europe as well. I posted a notice earlier of Apple's jobs site in which their are setting up the support structure in the Netherlands for more European stores. The Regent Street - London store is only the first. A Paris store won't be far behind.

 

[solaris]

Oslo to New York isn't 15 hours! Oslo to Hong Kong maybe. Oslo to New York is 8 hours and 35 minutes via Continental airlines flight 39. Actually that goes to Newark NJ, but that is not far from an Apple Store, and not far from New York itself.

Ooops, sorry. I have never been over there.
We say 8 1/2 hours then, plus the time it take for me to travel to/from the airports. At least 10 hours in total.

Are there no Apple Centre stores in Norway? I know there are in Sweden and I think in Denmark. These stores seem to be a way to get Apple products sold in positive environment without Apple going through all the expense. Not to say there won't be many honest-to-goodness Apple stores in Europe as well. I posted a notice earlier of Apple's jobs site in which their are setting up the support structure in the Netherlands for more European stores. The Regent Street - London store is only the first. A Paris store won't be far behind.

Yeah there are several stores that sell Apple products in Norway. But they are all 3. party shops, not an Apple Store.
As far as I know the only Apple Store outside US is located in Tokyo, Japan.
Just check out this list: http://www.apple.com/retail/

The 3. party shops are no compare to the official Apple Stores.
* They have not the whole product line on display.
* Not all of them are authorized repair partners.
* The prices are higher.
* Only stock computers, no BTO. (I guess Apple Store has that option?).

 

[Sayhey]

Minor note. Apple is now listing openings for the Tukwila store on its jobs website. Curiously, there is no listing for a Store Manager position. Anyway, it is a confirmation of a likely opening date in late 2004.

 

[MikeTheC]

No Apple Stores in Norway...

Ok, I get the message. I'll quit complaining about having to drive 2.5 hours each way.

Mike

 

[jsw]

* Only stock computers, no BTO. (I guess Apple Store has that option?).

If it makes you feel better, Apple Stores don't allow BTO either. For instance, you can't get a G5 with Bluetooth installed.

 

[silverpie]

Yeah.. I am dying for a store in Nashville too!! where would they do it?

Over in Cool Springs? Opry Mills? Belle Meade?

- Doc

Given that they mention a "suburb" of Nashville, I have to think they were planning Cool Springs. But it seems painfully obvious to me that the best location in town for it would be Green Hills.

 

[Sayhey]

Iowa store!

Big news for you mac fans out in the Plains region. First Kansas City and now Apple has posted a new store in West Des Moines, Iowa! Perhaps the Plains region is not lost on Apple's retail planning team. There is also news of a new Southern California store in Century City, but that is getting to be old hat isn't it? Congrats to both regions.

Jobs listings are popping up for more new retail stores: the Jordan Creek Town Center in West Des Moines (Iowa), and in the renovated and enlarged Century City (S. Calif.) mall (right) that will be completed in 2005. The former location is new, and scheduled to open this August. The latter location was selected over two years ago, but has apparently been waiting for the renovation project to be completed, which should be some time next year.

ifoAppleStore

Both stores are also listed on Apple's "drop down" menu at its jobs website.

 

[ipodrocker]

whats the story why is there no apple stores in canada! come on jobs get at least one in canada

 

[Sayhey]

whats the story why is there no apple stores in canada! come on jobs get at least one in canada

This is the latest I've seen of any report concerning Apple stores in Canada.

AppleInsider

 

[Photorun]

an overlooked reason to why Apple sometimes can't be next door

Though where there's wills there's ways, something to think about all you peeps while griping and beeyaatching on there not being an Apple store at the corner of your blocks. In a couple instances I've heard Apple wanting to put an Apple store in an upscale mall or area but the area can't or wont compromise with Apple. A kneejerk would be that Apple probably wants too much (huge area, tax breaks, etc.) but that actually doesn't seem to be the case.

They were looking to put an Apple Store in the Carousel Mall (or as locals call it "CareofSmell Maul") which is a fairily large vaguely supposedly upscall mall in Syracuse, New York. The Mall is owned by a relatively greedy company called Pyramid Group which is run by this guy who's bilked taxpayers and local businesses out of millions to get rich by your usual corporate sleezy scumbag ways, he looks a bit like Steve Ballmer but with less soul... if that's possible. Anyhoo Syracuse is a prime Apple ground, home of a bunch of universities (SU, Lemoyne, etc.) and one of the biggest MUGs in the Northeast, it's got a huge hardcore Apple fanbase. Apple wanted to put an Apple Store there since 2001 for early 2002 and Syracuse is, far all intent and purpose, a rustbelt town, dying economy, lots of old factories, the blue collar mentality, dying areas of the city, sprawl to the north, inner city crime to the south, there really isn't any good place to put an Apple Store EXCEPT Carousel Mall, that's just the way it is, there's no other really upscale concentrated area like in other cities, if there is they're small and out of the way, it just wouldn't be practical.

Apple began talks with Pyramid and Scumbucket Congel to put the Apple Store in back in 2001 but they wanted an arm and a leg, over and beyond what say even a Lord and Taylor or other boutique store would be paying, this word was passed from an admin who once worked for Pyramid/Conget but the sleaze was oozing on her so she left to do something better (like kick puppies or steal ice cream from babies would be better). Apple wanted to put a store in, but their efforts were met with ridiculous rules and contracts, perhaps because Pyramid was in bed with Dell with stuff, and perhaps because Congel knew Apple is upscale computers for smarter, often more wealthy people, he thought he deserved a cut... not really sure, but every time Apple approached, and impasse was reached, and it usually was from in fact the mall being completely unreasonable.

The short of this, or moral to the story, sometimes Apple can't put in because they want to be in a prime location (and can you blame them?!?) but those locations for one reason or another are hostile or unreasonable to Apple.

Keep it in mind.