aloper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 23, 2015
432
434
Rocklin, CA
So, I just purchased the new Apple TV 4K with Siri remote and it just refuses to turn on my TV and sound bar. I have a Samsung Ru8000 (2019) and a Nachamichi sound bar. The Apple TV is connected to the sound bar, sound bar is connected to the ARC HDMI port on my TV. CEC is on, on the TV and the sound bar and control devices is turned on, in the Apple TV remote settings. When I press the power button or home button, the Apple TV will turn on but nothing else. If I then use the TV remote to turn on the TV, TV starts and it powers on the sound bar, but...The siri remote control pad will let me move around screens but the volume, home and back buttons don't work. At this point, if I restart the Apple TV, boom, the remote works great. Home, volume buttons start working again. Once I power off the Apple TV, it does power off the TV and sound bar.

Come back later after everything has been off for awhile...and I've tried both using the power button or just hitting the home button, the Apple TV turns on...but the TV and sound bar stay off. Use the TV remote to turn on, and the TV and sound bar turn on, but again, the only thing that works on the remote is the direction pad. Have to do a full restart to get the remote working...So I'm stuck in this loop of restart, to get the remote to work.

I've searched all over and tried everything from trying three different sets of HDMI cables, turning Airplay off, resetting the Apple TV, resetting the TV and sound bar and unplugging everything to fully reset the ARC CEC on everything. No go...If I want the remote to work, I have to turn on the Apple TV with the remote, use the TV remote to power on the TV and sound bar, then do a restart on the Apple TV...just to get the remote to work.

Here is the weird thing...I have the last gen Apple TV which I moved to another room, after getting the latest. Out of desperation, I paired the old remote to the new Apple TV and...Everything works, every time. Press the home button on the old remote, everything turns on and all the remote buttons work like volume, home, etc. The old remote hasn't learned any custom IR commands or anything...It's just the stock settings...As a test, I went into another room, clicked on Home, and everything turns on...so it's not an IR thing. Pair the new remote and...it will work for that session. Power off everything...come back, and the new remote only turns on the Apple TV...

So, for the time being, I'm using the old remote with the new Apple TV...I guess the new remote could just be bad so I'm going to try and borrow a friends new remote and see if it's across the board, or maybe the issue is my remote...Anyone else run into new remote issues like this?
 

triumph71

macrumors member
Nov 16, 2014
70
28
Finally someone who has the exact same problem as me!

I had the previous AppleTV with the old Siri remote which I always hated. I then upgraded to the new Siri remote and for a while it was great. Switched it to "click only" as the touch controls are still terrible. I was loving life for a few weeks, then suddenly, the new Sir remote stopped being able to turn things on via ARC and my Nakamichi Shockwafe soundbar connected to my LG OLED TV. I actually thought perhaps it was my old AppleTV going on the fritz, so I bought a brand new AppleTV 4k with the new remote. However, it had exactly the same issue as before! I also noticed that that the battery life that had been amazing with the new remote when it worked ok, was dropping drastically (25% drop in just a couple of days).

I see the exact same thing as @aloper though. Restarting AppleTV makes it work for a while, turning everything off, and on. As soon as I leave things off overnight (or even an hour or two), usually results in not being able to turn things on again with the remote. Again, a reboot, or pulling the power cord, usually fixes it, but it's a huge pain to do this every day.

With the new Apple TV 4k, i unpaired the new remote, and paired the old black remote from my previous Apple TV, and voila, it's able to power on the soundbar every time. Everything works great again, except i'm stuck with the terrible old remote.

I've scoured the internet and these forums in particular and nothing really seemed like it was the issue I was seeing, as it does seem to be directly related to the new remote, and also probably when the last firmware update for the remote was pushed. I feel like this new firmware has caused the incompatibility or disconnections or something with the Nakamichi soundbar. I would love to be able to just go back to the old firmware, but as this is a completely automated system i'm sure it's not possible.

One other things, I even tried the beta AppleTV firmware and that didn't help either.

I just dread calling Apple support as it will just be an endless series of reboots and resets which I know will make no difference. Now I know someone else is having the same problem, i'm at least comforted that i'm not seeing a freak thing, but it's looking like the Nakamichi soundbar might be the common denominator.
 
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aloper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 23, 2015
432
434
Rocklin, CA
Finally someone who has the exact same problem as me!

I had the previous AppleTV with the old Siri remote which I always hated. I then upgraded to the new Siri remote and for a while it was great. Switched it to "click only" as the touch controls are still terrible. I was loving life for a few weeks, then suddenly, the new Sir remote stopped being able to turn things on via ARC and my Nakamichi Shockwafe soundbar connected to my LG OLED TV. I actually thought perhaps it was my old AppleTV going on the fritz, so I bought a brand new AppleTV 4k with the new remote. However, it had exactly the same issue as before! I also noticed that that the battery life that had been amazing with the new remote when it worked ok, was dropping drastically (25% drop in just a couple of days).

I see the exact same thing as @aloper though. Restarting AppleTV makes it work for a while, turning everything off, and on. As soon as I leave things off overnight (or even an hour or two), usually results in not being able to turn things on again with the remote. Again, a reboot, or pulling the power cord, usually fixes it, but it's a huge pain to do this every day.

With the new Apple TV 4k, i unpaired the new remote, and paired the old black remote from my previous Apple TV, and voila, it's able to power on the soundbar every time. Everything works great again, except i'm stuck with the terrible old remote.

I've scoured the internet and these forums in particular and nothing really seemed like it was the issue I was seeing, as it does seem to be directly related to the new remote, and also probably when the last firmware update for the remote was pushed. I feel like this new firmware has caused the incompatibility or disconnections or something with the Nakamichi soundbar. I would love to be able to just go back to the old firmware, but as this is a completely automated system i'm sure it's not possible.

One other things, I even tried the beta AppleTV firmware and that didn't help either.

I just dread calling Apple support as it will just be an endless series of reboots and resets which I know will make no difference. Now I know someone else is having the same problem, i'm at least comforted that i'm not seeing a freak thing, but it's looking like the Nakamichi soundbar might be the common denominator.
I went and borrowed a friends Siri remote and it worked perfectly…for a day. I could turn on everything, every single time. Let it sit for a few hours and come back and it would turn on everything just fine. This morning, nothing…Back to where I started with nothing being turned on by the remote and having to restart the Apple TV to get everything working again…Even if it’s off for just a few minutes.

What did change overnight though was the remote was updated to the latest firmware…And now everything is broken again. So I think your theory about the firmware being the culprit is spot on. For the time being I’m switching back to using the TV’s built in apps and will see if a new firmware comes out or the newest version of TV OS fixes anything or may just return it. If I wait and updates don’t fix it, I’m putting the Apple TV on eBay and find a different streaming solution…
 
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mhmercer

macrumors newbie
Jul 19, 2019
20
2
I suggest that your HDMI cables could be routed differently.

According to the Nakamichi Shockwafe Pro 7.1 users manual (page 12):
"1. Connect one end of the HDMI cable to the HDMI (ARC) port in the back of your TV.
2. Connect the other end to the HDMI Out [1] (ARC to TV) port to your Nakimichi soundbar."
In other words, the TV is an HDMI "hub" between the ATV and the soundbar.
BTW: eARC and ARC do not control your off/on, change the channel, or mute the sound. The ATV's and TV's CEC does that.
 
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w5jck

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2013
521
737
...The Apple TV is connected to the sound bar, sound bar is connected to the ARC HDMI port on my TV. CEC is on, on the TV and the sound bar and control devices is turned on, in the Apple TV remo
The problem is you hooked it up incorrectly.
  1. Connect the ATV 4K to the TV via a normal HDMI port.
  2. Hook the TV to the soundbar via the HDMI CEC ports on those devices (TV and soundbar) with an appropriate cable.
Then allow the TV to control the soundbar via HDMI CEC. This way the ATV 4K remote will properly control the TV, which in turn will control your soundbar via HDMI CEC. In other words, when you use the ATV 4K remote to change volume or turn on/off the TV, the TV will change the volume on the soundbar and it will turn on/off the soundbar and itself as necessary.
 
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w5jck

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2013
521
737
OP, Let me just reiterate that you plug your soundbar into your TV's HDMI CEC port. Here is one of the reasons. CEC is designed to allow the TV to automatically control the soundbar on/off switch and audio level. Once you have the TV and soundbar correctly connected, then you can connect other devices to the TV, and if those devices have CEC capability, then they can control the TV on/off switch and audio level via their own remote. So the result is the TV controls the on/off switch and audio level on the soundbar, and an ATV 4K, or Fire TV, or other CEC capable devices can be set up to control the TV (and thus through affiliation, the soundbar's) on/off switch and audio level. I have both my ATV 4K and Fire TV Cube 2nd gen set up to use their remotes to control my Sony Bravia and soundbar via CEC. Both are plugged into normal HDMI ports on the TV. Only my soundbar is plugged into the TV's HDMI CEC port.

You were using your soundbar to basically control your TV and/or other devices like Blu-Ray players, etc. Once upon a time several years ago that was what we did. But newer TVs and soundbars, and streaming devices typically have HDMI CEC capability, and now we no longer need to use the soundbar to control everything else. The soundbar is simply connected to the TV, then either the TV or another device connected to the TV, controls the soundbar.
 
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aloper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 23, 2015
432
434
Rocklin, CA
OP, Let me just reiterate that you plug your soundbar into your TV's HDMI CEC port. Here is one of the reasons. CEC is designed to allow the TV to automatically control the soundbar on/off switch and audio level. Once you have the TV and soundbar correctly connected, then you can connect other devices to the TV, and if those devices have CEC capability, then they can control the TV on/off switch and audio level via their own remote. So the result is the TV controls the on/off switch and audio level on the soundbar, and an ATV 4K, or Fire TV, or other CEC capable devices can be set up to control the TV (and thus through affiliation, the soundbar's) on/off switch and audio level. I have both my ATV 4K and Fire TV Cube 2nd gen set up to use their remotes to control my Sony Bravia and soundbar via CEC. Both are plugged into normal HDMI ports on the TV. Only my soundbar is plugged into the TV's HDMI CEC port.

You were using your soundbar to basically control your TV and/or other devices like Blu-Ray players, etc. Once upon a time several years ago that was what we did. But newer TVs and soundbars, and streaming devices typically have HDMI CEC capability, and now we no longer need to use the soundbar to control everything else. The soundbar is simply connected to the TV, then either the TV or another device connected to the TV, controls the soundbar.
Ironically, when I first got the Nakamichi sound bar, and used it with my old Apple TV, I did try connecting the Apple TV directly to the TV, with the sound bar connected via ARC. I was having lip sync issues and contacted Nakamichi and the tech said, connecting it that way was what they recommended for older non-4K Apple TV's. But with the 4k versions, their recommendation is to connect the Apple TV to the sound bar, sound bar to TV, via ARC...I went through their online setup tool...where you tell it what TV, sound bar and what devices you have...see screenshot...

Couple of things though...My old Apple TV and old remote worked perfectly connected they way I have it. The old Apple remote turns on/off and controls everything fine. The first day I got the new Apple TV, I remember no issues with the new remote. It literally stopped working the next day. If I pair my old remote to the new Apple TV, it works flawlessly...everything works. I borrowed yesterday from a friend, their new Apple remote....Luckily, it's been boxed up for like two months while they moved. It worked flawlessly all day yesterday...everything turned off/on, etc. This morning...nothing. I can power on the Apple TV but nothing else starts up. The only change because I checked was the firmware update last night. So I'm back to using the old remote with the new APTV....
 

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w5jck

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2013
521
737
It could just be the odd soundbar design then. As someone else mentioned above though, ARC and CEC are not the same thing, so maybe the soundbar isn’t CEC capable. Here is a good definition, “CEC will enable control of on/off & volume of compatible AV Receivers or Soundbars via your Televisions remote control. ARC or Audio Return Channel will send sound back down the HDMI cable connected from your AVR or Soundbar.” ARC basically eliminated the need to connect the soundbar to the TV via a digital audio cable, but doesn’t provide capability for what you want to do. It sounds like your soundbar has ARC but not CEC. If CEC is set up correctly, turning on/off the TV will also turn on/off all connected devices and allow the remotes from the TV and all connected devices to control the audio level for all of those devices.

Using ARC is now outdated if CEC is available. My old 2008 Sony Bravia HDTV had to be set up like your system wherein I used the soundbar to control the TV and all the other devices. It was a PITA and required multiple remotes, or a really good programmable remote which was a PITA to program. When I updated to a 2020 Sony Bravia 4K TV it was CEC capable and setting it up with all my devices and soundbar took about 15 minutes because all three devices and the soundbar were CEC capable.

If your TV is CEC capable and you connect the ATV 4K directly to it, then the ATV 4K‘s remote will turn on/off the TV. But connecting the ATV 4K directly to the soundbar will prevent that from happening. Not sure why Apple designed it this way, but the new remote doesn’t seem to be able to control the on/off of the soundbar when connected directly to the soundbar. Apple apparently designed it to only work with a TV and only when directly connected to that TV. I guess they thought people who connected it that way would then use CEC between the TV and soundbar. Hopefully Apple will update the firmware to work directly with soundbars too, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to do so.
 
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aloper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 23, 2015
432
434
Rocklin, CA
It could just be the odd soundbar design then. As someone else mentioned above though, ARC and CEC are not the same thing, so maybe the soundbar isn’t CEC capable. Here is a good definition, “CEC will enable control of on/off & volume of compatible AV Receivers or Soundbars via your Televisions remote control. ARC or Audio Return Channel will send sound back down the HDMI cable connected from your AVR or Soundbar.” ARC basically eliminated the need to connect the soundbar to the TV via a digital audio cable, but doesn’t provide capability for what you want to do. It sounds like your soundbar has ARC but not CEC. If CEC is set up correctly, turning on/off the TV will also turn on/off all connected devices and allow the remotes from the TV and all connected devices to control the audio level for all of those devices.

Using ARC is now outdated if CEC is available. My old 2008 Sony Bravia HDTV had to be set up like your system wherein I used the soundbar to control the TV and all the other devices. It was a PITA and required multiple remotes, or a really good programmable remote which was a PITA to program. When I updated to a 2020 Sony Bravia 4K TV it was CEC capable and setting it up with all my devices and soundbar took about 15 minutes because all three devices and the soundbar were CEC capable.

If your TV is CEC capable and you connect the ATV 4K directly to it, then the ATV 4K‘s remote will turn on/off the TV. But connecting the ATV 4K directly to the soundbar will prevent that from happening. Not sure why Apple designed it this way, but the new remote doesn’t seem to be able to control the on/off of the soundbar when connected directly to the soundbar. Apple apparently designed it to only work with a TV and only when directly connected to that TV. I guess they thought people who connected it that way would then use CEC between the TV and soundbar. Hopefully Apple will update the firmware to work directly with soundbars too, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to do so.
Oddly, Apple themselves recommend connecting the Apple TV to the sound bar, then the sound bar via ARC to the TV...

 
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w5jck

macrumors 6502a
Nov 9, 2013
521
737
I have absolutely no issues with my ATV 4K connected directly to the TV, then the TV connected to my soundbar. Chances are your soundbar is not capable of producing true Dolby Atmos anyway. About the only way you will get it through sound systems is to have multiple speakers and at least two speakers pointing upwards. Systems with true Dolby Atmos tend to cost a lot, and soundbars are not a good platform for it. But if you do have a Dolby Atmos sound system, a good TV can pass that signal along to the sound system. There is no reason to have to connect the ATV 4K directly to the sound system unless perhaps the TV is old and lacking current technology.
 
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jklemm7474

macrumors newbie
Sep 13, 2021
1
0
I am having an identical issue with remote functionality, but in my case it's with Apple TV 4K > Yamaha RX-V685 > Samsung Q70 Series TV. The only time full functionality is available through the remote is when the Apple TV is unplugged and restarted. Seems like things went sideways shortly after the remote firmware update. I even went so far as to log the issue with Apple Support, which resulted in them sending out a new remote. New remote functioned fine out of the box, then after the firmware update to the remote (noted via remote info screen) identical issues occurred.
 
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aloper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 23, 2015
432
434
Rocklin, CA
I am having an identical issue with remote functionality, but in my case it's with Apple TV 4K > Yamaha RX-V685 > Samsung Q70 Series TV. The only time full functionality is available through the remote is when the Apple TV is unplugged and restarted. Seems like things went sideways shortly after the remote firmware update. I even went so far as to log the issue with Apple Support, which resulted in them sending out a new remote. New remote functioned fine out of the box, then after the firmware update to the remote (noted via remote info screen) identical issues occurred.
If you have access to the older remote, I would suggest trying it. It does work perfectly in my situation, to turn on/off and control everything...where as the new remote doesn't....
 
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triumph71

macrumors member
Nov 16, 2014
70
28
Even though the "Apple TV 4k" -> "Nakamichi Soundbar" -> "LG TV" seems to be the recommended approach by Nakamichi and Apple both, I did try the "Apple TV 4k" -> "LG TV" -> "Nakamichi Soundbar" approach that @w5jck recommended, and so far so good. I'm back using the new Siri remote and it worked last night, and things turned on again without issue this morning!

Also a side note, with the old setup, I would also have this back and forth no-signal, signal, dance between the TV and the soundbar on startup until things settled down. Usually twice, but sometimes 3 or 4 times which was annoying as you can imagine. WIth the Apple TV connected to the TV via HDMI3 it doesn't do the song and dance when I startup, it does it just the once.
 
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