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Great post in another thread by HobeSoundDarryl:

"A lot of the whine around this topic is about Apple going proprietary. I suspect there would be much less whine if iPhone was switching from proprietary Lighting to USB3 for this "all digital" conversion. Yes, that would still be a hassle (the same hassle in many ways), but it would still deliver any wired "superiority?" benefits Apple is about to hype while going to a real standard likely to "just work" with everything else (including Apple's own Macs) that decides to adopt a digital audio jack. Intel is adopting USB3 as this standard so everything that leans on Intel chips will use USB3 if it is to have a digital audio connector. Even Apple's future Macs will have this built into the chips they will be using. I'm not so convinced Apple will allocate the extra cost and space to a Lightning port on Macs for headphone purposes when they can just use what Intel has already provided through a multi-duty (USB3) port that will already have to be there anyway.

A proprietary wireless option should yield the same whine. Like hoping the rest of the world will quickly adopt Lighting so it can be as ubiquitous as 3.5mm is now, it would make the wireless cheerleaders spin the idea that the world would adopt this proprietary wireless standard. Else, your wireless buds could connect to NOTHING else except Apple stuff.

Most simply, this is decision-making that leads from thorough ubiquity to fragmentation. Our community here is usually quick to rip into any fragmentation driven by any other player. For many years, one of our great bashes against Android phones with multiple screen sizes was fragmentation (until Apple adopted multiple screen sizes and then that argument evaporated).

Here we fragment from what is probably the most ubiquitous "just works" port on the planet to 3 ports: Lightning, USB3 and 3.5mm. To make ANY choice of wired headphones "just work" with about anything to which we might want to connect is going to require some combination of adapters or multiple wires or wires with multiple jacks to be on hand at any point in time where we want to connect. Since we can't always know when we need some connection, we will pretty much need to carry along those adapters at all times... or just do without being able to make some connection as readily as we can now.

Even sharing the same headphones between iPhones and Apple's own Macs we already own will require some kind of adapter or alternate wire with a different jack on the end. Step outside the walled garden and it will DEFINITELY require 2 adapters to cover all bases (no matter which headphone wire terminator one chooses).

The Bluetooth standard or a hypothetical Apple wireless standard that is proprietary doesn't resolve the above. It's just more of the same without wires. Because the former is a standard that has been around for years, there are more places where it can "just work" (typically at some tradeoff in quality vs. wired) but it is far from being as ubiquitous as the 3.5mm standard. There are still plenty of situations where the Bluetooth "the future" crowd just can't connect as readily as they could if they had wired headphones terminating in the defacto, default 3.5mm standard.

A proprietary wireless standard created by Apple would connect to NOTHING but Apple stuff. As bad as wired Lighting and a dongle or two will be, proprietary wireless seems like it would take that same overarching problem to the MAX.

Nevertheless, having followed this topic closely as it's unfolded, I do suspect that Apple will roll out a new wireless standard in the presentation. I'm guessing it's going to be an early implementation of Bluetooth 5 but it could be something proprietary. I suspect Apple will hype wireless audio with great passion, show a video or two of relatively odd situations where wires can get in the way (and they definitely will in the demo video) and make it seem like "the <wireless> future" is here now.

BUT, new iPhones will ship with wired Lightning buds and "the future" will be available at a handsome add-on premium... thus the rumor of a new Beats headphones segment. I suspect that there will be something that makes the Beats purchase option the only viable option for those that want "the future" right out of the gate, delaying other similar-cost players from being able to launch competing headphones for at least a few months.

And I suspect iPhones will NOT ship with a 3.5mm to Lightning adapter. That too will be available separately- only from Apple initially- for about $19.99-$29.99. I suspect "cheap Chinese knockoffs for $5" may fail as "valid hardware" if one tries to go that way.

Lastly, I suspect the "space" created by ejecting the 3.5mm jack will be consumed by "thinner" and little-to-nothing else. Spin about "more battery", another speaker, other hardware is just spin IMO- some of us making up possibilities to try to defer/mitigate the whine about Apple just kicking out 3.5mm but keeping the price the same. I hear Apple is building a holodeck projector into the space where the 3.5mm used to exist, so who needs 3.5mm, Lightning or wireless when you can project the band into the room with you and have them play your music live?;)

But we'll see if this speculation- or other speculation- pans out. I'm sure Apple is well aware of this particular whine. So be ready for RDF maximization like you've never seen before. By the end, someone will probably believe the 3.5mm jack causes cancer or impedes world peace (except in everything else that Apple makes where 3.5mm audio jack is perfectly fine as is- so buy that other stuff now too)."

A lot of the whine around this topic is about Apple going proprietary. I suspect there would be much less whine if iPhone was switching from proprietary Lighting to USB3 for this "all digital" conversion. Yes, that would still be a hassle (the same hassle in many ways), but it would still deliver any wired "superiority?" benefits Apple is about to hype while going to a real standard likely to "just work" with everything else (including Apple's own Macs) that decides to adopt a digital audio jack. Intel is adopting USB3 as this standard so everything that leans on Intel chips will use USB3 if it is to have a digital audio connector. Even Apple's future Macs will have this built into the chips they will be using. I'm not so convinced Apple will allocate the extra cost and space to a Lightning port on Macs for headphone purposes when they can just use what Intel has already provided through a multi-duty (USB3) port that will already have to be there anyway.

A proprietary wireless option should yield the same whine. Like hoping the rest of the world will quickly adopt Lighting so it can be as ubiquitous as 3.5mm is now, it would make the wireless cheerleaders spin the idea that the world would adopt this proprietary wireless standard. Else, your wireless buds could connect to NOTHING else except Apple stuff.

Most simply, this is decision-making that leads from thorough ubiquity to fragmentation. Our community here is usually quick to rip into any fragmentation driven by any other player. For many years, one of our great bashes against Android phones with multiple screen sizes was fragmentation (until Apple adopted multiple screen sizes and then that argument evaporated).

Here we fragment from what is probably the most ubiquitous "just works" port on the planet to 3 ports: Lightning, USB3 and 3.5mm. To make ANY choice of wired headphones "just work" with about anything to which we might want to connect is going to require some combination of adapters or multiple wires or wires with multiple jacks to be on hand at any point in time where we want to connect. Since we can't always know when we need some connection, we will pretty much need to carry along those adapters at all times... or just do without being able to make some connection as readily as we can now.

Even sharing the same headphones between iPhones and Apple's own Macs we already own will require some kind of adapter or alternate wire with a different jack on the end. Step outside the walled garden and it will DEFINITELY require 2 adapters to cover all bases (no matter which headphone wire terminator one chooses).

The Bluetooth standard or a hypothetical Apple wireless standard that is proprietary doesn't resolve the above. It's just more of the same without wires. Because the former is a standard that has been around for years, there are more places where it can "just work" (typically at some tradeoff in quality vs. wired) but it is far from being as ubiquitous as the 3.5mm standard. There are still plenty of situations where the Bluetooth "the future" crowd just can't connect as readily as they could if they had wired headphones terminating in the defacto, default 3.5mm standard.

A proprietary wireless standard created by Apple would connect to NOTHING but Apple stuff. As bad as wired Lighting and a dongle or two will be, proprietary wireless seems like it would take that same overarching problem to the MAX.

Nevertheless, having followed this topic closely as it's unfolded, I do suspect that Apple will roll out a new wireless standard in the presentation. I'm guessing it's going to be an early implementation of Bluetooth 5 but it could be something proprietary. I suspect Apple will hype wireless audio with great passion, show a video or two of relatively odd situations where wires can get in the way (and they definitely will in the demo video) and make it seem like "the <wireless> future" is here now.

BUT, new iPhones will ship with wired Lightning buds and "the future" will be available at a handsome add-on premium... thus the rumor of a new Beats headphones segment. I suspect that there will be something that makes the Beats purchase option the only viable option for those that want "the future" right out of the gate, delaying other similar-cost players from being able to launch competing headphones for at least a few months.

And I suspect iPhones will NOT ship with a 3.5mm to Lightning adapter. That too will be available separately- only from Apple initially- for about $19.99-$29.99. I suspect "cheap Chinese knockoffs for $5" may fail as "valid hardware" if one tries to go that way.

Lastly, I suspect the "space" created by ejecting the 3.5mm jack will be consumed by "thinner" and little-to-nothing else. Spin about "more battery", another speaker, other hardware is just spin IMO- some of us making up possibilities to try to defer/mitigate the whine about Apple just kicking out 3.5mm but keeping the price the same. I hear Apple is building a holodeck projector into the space where the 3.5mm used to exist, so who needs 3.5mm, Lightning or wireless when you can project the band into the room with you and have them play your music live?;)

But we'll see if this speculation- or other speculation- pans out. I'm sure Apple is well aware of this particular whine. So be ready for RDF maximization like you've never seen before. By the end, someone will probably believe the 3.5mm jack causes cancer or impedes world peace (except in everything else that Apple makes where 3.5mm audio jack is perfectly fine as is- so buy that other stuff now too).
 
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As someone who bought the Studio Wireless................. Beats SUCK! Like a lot of Apple products, just over priced crap. It's a shame because Apple do have good products like the iPhone, but the they're let down by crap like Beats.
For the life of me I can't understand why people keep saying stuff like this.
Apple bought Beats as they "WERE".
Not unlike many other companies that Apple has bought and improved.
Now Beats are in Apple's hands and will make them as they are "GOING" to be!
Get it people?!
 
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the market has changed in the last 5 years iPhone being 50%+ apple profit - android with their approx 75% market share means apple needs to be more on its toes.

Exactly, which beggars belief why they aren't updating the Mac lines and why they are potentially doing dumb stuff like dropping the 3.5mm jack. Right now I have the money to buy a new rMBP (if it had at least 32GB RAM) and I would like to upgrade my nMP too. That's at least £8k. Doesn't look like it will happen though.
 
Exactly, which beggars belief why they aren't updating the Mac lines and why they are potentially doing dumb stuff like dropping the 3.5mm jack. Right now I have the money to buy a new rMBP (if it had at least 32GB RAM) and I would like to upgrade my nMP too. That's at least £8k. Doesn't look like it will happen though.

Good things come to those that wait.
cheers
 
Well at least I'm not a cynic. :D



Oh, now look who's "dabbling into sarkasam [sic] in an attempt to bring humor into our world". And with a healthy dose of cynicism too! :D

So what you're proposing is that over half-a billion Apple customers should buy Lightning-to-USB-C adapters for every one of their Lightning cables and accessories, in order to use a new USB standard that isn't even widely implemented yet, for which they'd have nothing else to use them on? A standard that has so little market saturation, if they every forgot their cable at home, they would be hard pressed to find one in any corporate office, much less a 7-11 at 3AM, something likely to be true for several more years? You'd suggest this over a smaller subset of iPhone users who use the 3.5mm headphone jack (unless you want to suggest that 99.9999% of all iPhone users use wired headphones and not the free ones Apple includes -- in which case I shall need proof ;)), many of whom will be happy using Lightning headphones, or upgrading to wireless headphones, or typically only have one set of headphones, buy an adapter? Even if Apple eliminates the Lightning port completely by the time USB-C finally reaches market saturation?

Wow, maybe I have you wrong -- perhaps you should try to get a job at Apple with those ideas (well if Apple were the evil greedy company you think it is). Or, as a standup comedian! :D

I really don't know or care if you are a cynic or not. That is your own problem. But from my point of view you seemed to be quite emotional about this topic given the quantities of replies you are generating. This Is clouding your judgement a bit it seems as you are interpreting too much into people's relplies and conclusions based on what -at least it seems so- you think you want read.

Otherwise I have to you where I ever suggested that Apple is am evil greedy company?

Maybe step away from the computer for a while and go for a walk. Not an sarcastic suggestion - it helps sometimes to clear up the mind.
 
I really don't know or care if you are a cynic or not. That is your own problem. But from my point of view you seemed to be quite emotional about this topic given the quantities of replies you are generating. This Is clouding your judgement a bit it seems as you are interpreting too much into people's relplies and conclusions based on what -at least it seems so- you think you want read.

Otherwise I have to you where I ever suggested that Apple is am evil greedy company?

Maybe step away from the computer for a while and go for a walk. Not an sarcastic suggestion - it helps sometimes to clear up the mind.

Says the guy who went out of his way to make a personal attack, twice.

I think we're done. You have a lovely day.
 
For the life of me I can't understand why people keep saying stuff like this.
Apple bought Beats as they "WERE".
Not unlike many other companies that Apple has bought and improved.
Now Beats are in Apple's hands and will make them as they are "GOING" to be!
Get it people?!

Finally, someone who get it! I applaud you my friend. Sometimes I think people just see the first bit of information, like the fact that there will be new Beats hardware announced alongside the iPhone 7, and decide to moan about it. "Oh Apple is dropping the headphone jack" moan about it! "Oh new Beats might be announced" moan about it! The event hasn't even happened yet!!
 
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For the life of me I can't understand why people keep saying stuff like this.
Apple bought Beats as they "WERE".
Not unlike many other companies that Apple has bought and improved.
Now Beats are in Apple's hands and will make them as they are "GOING" to be!
Get it people?!

Apple will just do something dumb to them, like make it so you cannot change the earcups without taking the whole thing apart. Or frigging remove the power button so they're left on all the time like their pencil that's always dead because it cannot frigging turn off.
 
Apple will just do something dumb to them, like make it so you cannot change the earcups without taking the whole thing apart. Or frigging remove the power button so they're left on all the time like their pencil that's always dead because it cannot frigging turn off.

Sad but sounds about right.
 
Sad but sounds about right.

Nah. In fact, what I'd love to see is the same iPhone technology that turns off the display when you hold it up to your face, to turn off the earbuds when you take them out of your ears. A sensor to put them into low power mode. Maybe touch them together to turn them off or on. Actually a magnet that kept them stuck together when not in use would be amazing.
 
Finally, someone who get it! I applaud you my friend. Sometimes I think people just see the first bit of information, like the fact that there will be new Beats hardware announced alongside the iPhone 7, and decide to moan about it. "Oh Apple is dropping the headphone jack" moan about it! "Oh new Beats might be announced" moan about it! The event hasn't even happened yet!!

Actually, even before Apple bought them, Beats sound and quality were quickly improving. It is not all Apple's doing.
 
Nah. In fact, what I'd love to see is the same iPhone technology that turns off the display when you hold it up to your face, to turn off the earbuds when you take them out of your ears. A sensor to put them into low power mode. Maybe touch them together to turn them off or on. Actually a magnet that kept them stuck together when not in use would be amazing.

Backbeat pro headphones already have the technology where the music stops when you remove them and restarts when you put them back on. I'm sure other headphones have similar tech.

For the gym I use to use Origem Bluetooth 4.1 that has the magnetic function you speak of.

The things you wish to see are not far fetched in possible, I don't see apple doing it though.

I see new color beats as the biggest highlight. Complete line going Bluetooth, where like the studio wireless you can still use the cable if you want.

Honestly having the studio 2.0. I think they would be great if they just didn't break so easily.
 
Actually, even before Apple bought them, Beats sound and quality were quickly improving. It is not all Apple's doing.

Yes they were, I have the Beats Solo2's and they are good. I think Apple may improve on them, I'm interested to see what range of Beats they announce alongside the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus.
 
So, Bragi just introduced new wireless earbuds without fancy fitness tracking functions, 6 hrs playback at a $150 price point ($120 for pre-order). Now I'm even more excited what Apple has to show us on Wednesday...that was a pretty clear and strong statement from Bragi.
 
So, Bragi just introduced new wireless earbuds without fancy fitness tracking functions, 6 hrs playback at a $150 price point ($120 for pre-order). Now I'm even more excited what Apple has to show us on Wednesday...that was a pretty clear and strong statement from Bragi.

I think that whatever they announce headphone wise, will be done with the Beats branding, especially after that leaked email the other day.
 
I think that whatever they announce headphone wise, will be done with the Beats branding, especially after that leaked email the other day.

Has Apple ever introduced Beats products at an Apple event?

That seems to be what the e-mail hinted at, but it also clearly stated "Beats by Dre" would be introduced. That branding is incredibly strong, and not something Apple should absorb yet. Someday maybe, but not right now.

Maybe Beats will just set up a stand off to the side of the showroom. Hard to imagine they will give time to them as part of the official keynote, unless they are one of several brand reps they invite to the stage to showcase MFi audio technology that will be available on release day, they way they do with select developers. And since there have been no leaks about new audio tech, I can only imagine that Beats will be the only one such that they were able to keep internal security so tight.

If Apple rolls out some Apple Music developments, then maybe it makes sense to bring Beats to the stage.

But Apple will still keep the premium products for themselves, appealing to their much larger customer base for whom Beats represents something less.
 
Has Apple ever introduced Beats products at an Apple event?

That seems to be what the e-mail hinted at, but it also clearly stated "Beats by Dre" would be introduced. That branding is incredibly strong, and not something Apple should absorb yet. Someday maybe, but not right now.

Maybe Beats will just set up a stand off to the side of the showroom. Hard to imagine they will give time to them as part of the official keynote, unless they are one of several brand reps they invite to the stage to showcase MFi audio technology that will be available on release day, they way they do with select developers. And since there have been no leaks about new audio tech, I can only imagine that Beats will be the only one such that they were able to keep internal security so tight.

If Apple rolls out some Apple Music developments, then maybe it makes sense to bring Beats to the stage.

But Apple will still keep the premium products for themselves, appealing to their much larger customer base for whom Beats represents something less.

Apple owns Beats so it all amounts to the same thing.
 
Of course I know that. But the implementation of, for example, a superior dac to the native iPhone dac within a pair of lightning headphones could be a legitimate selling point.
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By professional standards, most Beats headphones (certainly those closest to the $100 mark; that is to say the entry-level Beats stuff) will not be able to touch your Sony headphones, which, as you said, have been one of a handful of "industry standard" headphones for a while alongside, for example, the AKG K240, which is my preferred set of 'phones. That said, I am fairly certain that a large portion of consumers (maybe even the majority of consumers) would prefer much of the Beats range over your current headphones because Beats are intentionally unbalanced headphones (vs. your Sonys which are quite "flat") that tend to boost bass frequencies. Most people tend to hear bass and think bass = quality, but Beats headphones have historically been known to introduce harmonic distortion - undesirable by professionals and audiophiles, but unnoticed or preferred by average consumers.


I'll take clean over bass any day! I really don't listen to much music but when I do the difference between having those Sony cans on vs. the Apple junk or anything close to it is extraordinary. I would even add that I prefer to edit in Final Cut with the Sony's on because it's infinitely easier to edit audio with quality when you can actually hear it with great clarity!
 
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