New eMacs

[Spades]

Not so much anymore. As I said before, 2D graphics cannot use the 32MB anyways. That's only good for 3D rendering. Plus, just about any card will do good 2D acceleration these days. The graphics card doesn't matter much for things like iPhoto and iMovie.

What about photo and video work. Does that tap into the graphics card much. Or in other words does iPhoto and iMovie work better with larger and faster graphics cards?

 

[jade]

Let me adjust that for you slightly:


$799 eMac combodrive 1.25GHz 256MB 40GB
$999 eMac superdrive 1.25GHz 256MB 80GB
$1499 iMac superdrive 1.6GHz G5 256MB 80GB Radeon 9600 15"
$1899 iMac superdrive 1.8GHz G5 512MB 120GB Radeon 9600 17"
$2099 iMac superdrive 2.0GHz G5 512MB 160GB Radeon 9600 20"
$1399 cMac superdrive single 2.0GHz G5 512MB 80GB 9600XT (monitor extra)
$1599 cMac superdrive single 2.5GHz G5 512MB 120GB 9600XT (monitor extra)
$1999 cMac superdrive single 3.0GHz G5 512MB 120GB 9600XT (monitor extra)
$1999 PowerMac superdrive dual 2.0GHz G5 512MB 120GB 9800 Pro
$2499 PowerMac superdrive dual 2.5GHz G5 512MB 160GB 9800 Pro
$2999 PowerMac superdrive dual 3.0GHz G5 1GB 250GB 9800XT

cMac for consumer macintosh, perhaps?

Note that this is my ideal lineup, and would probably only happen if there were some kind of special deals cut with nVidia and ATI, along with a few other companies. IBM would need to sell the 970 kind of cheaply, but it would be a gamble on lower prices versus return on inventory that Big Blue is far more prepared to soak up than Apple is (And help with the damn motherboarrd designs! Who else is buying these things, IBM?). I don't forsee this actually happening, but it's what would make the mac even more competitive than it is, and it would get some of the whiners to shut the hell up! :

The pricing is great and very on par with the PC world, but there is one thing missing...the ~$1200 machine with an LCD.....so either somthing like


imac 15" 1.5ish g4 256 80 gb combo drive and 9200/9600 $1099

or

cmac 1.6 or 1.8 g5 256 80 9600 combo drive $999

And then we would have a super complete lineup....that meets the reasonable pricing attractive tot he mid-range people and close to being on par with PC land

 

[thatwendigo]

The pricing is great and very on par with the PC world, but there is one thing missing...the ~$1200 machine with an LCD.....so either somthing like

The pricing isn't going to happen, short of a few miracles, but I can always hope that I'm wrong and that the suppliers have just been holding out on us until now.

imac 15" 1.5ish g4 256 80 gb combo drive and 9200/9600 $1099

cmac 1.6 or 1.8 g5 256 80 9600 combo drive $999

Not going to happen, for a number of reasons. First of all the eMac has to be close to cost as it stands, because of the logic boards and custom components, which are only produced for Apple. Short runs are costly, and that cost is going to be passed on to he end user, which explains the premium that Apple has always had when compared to PC OEMs. Even without their margins, if they were sold as far down as PCs, they'd still be more expensive.

And then we would have a super complete lineup....that meets the reasonable pricing attractive tot he mid-range people and close to being on par with PC land

We're already on par, performance-wise. It's only a few tasks that there's any clear winner, and we still have some of those over the x86 world, even after a year.

 

[sjk]

Maybe already responded to, but anyway...

Do eMacs support monitor spanning?

Yes I think it does.

Nope. The eMac and iMac only support video mirroring.

[edit: I forgot about the Extended Desktop firmware patch, if it'll work on the new eMac.]

 

[jade]

We're already on par, performance-wise. It's only a few tasks that there's any clear winner, and we still have some of those over the x86 world, even after a year.

I think the margins on the emac are fairly decent. Apple noted in the quarterly call, the price drop did not have a negative effect on emac margins........... so maybe Apple is holding out on us.

Well I think the current mid-range is a losing at the price performance game (imacs and single g5s)...

But your proposed lineup is on par...on my key critera.....

standard equipment when compared with PCs in similar price ranges..and it is less related to actual computer speed. (which isn't really so relavant any more for the average customer especially with an all g5 lineup and a more optimized os).

That is why I like you line up and pricing....but the hard drives are a little bit small at the top of the cmac line.......but it is a reasonable trade off.

I think your pricing is very possible..looking at current hardware pricing trends. I have seen pioneer dvd-writers retail for $130ish, RAM we all know is fairly cheap, hardrives are very cheap..and this would open the door for cheaper hardware.

 

[sjk]

Yeah, upgrading eMac RAM is a simple flip and unscrew.

And it's convenient having two user accessible slots. Sure wish the same were true for the iMac!

 

[hulugu]

Huzzahh

I deal with schools every day. People are generally more upset when someone bullies through an order for PC's with a mid-to-high-end video card and more RAM and HD than necessary, because it is frankly 75% wasted on the software the computers will be used for.

What would a school use a high-end video card for? Please do tell. Would it make Internet studies more effective? Would it make self-learning programs run better? Would it make teachers' gradebooks easier to use? Would it make Word more efficiently handle footnotes?

You sound exactly like the people who end up overspending school IT budgets because they feel for some reason that if they don't max out the memory and hard drive Safari and Reader Rabbit just won't run!

The eMac is targetted for people with a known need, and their egos firmly enough in check that they don't need to buy up to the Maseratti to make up for other deficiencies. The 'e' people generally don't have budgets to fritter away on "but maybe someday" hypotheticals which only tangentially might possibly affect how they teach their students.

In fact most people own computers that are far beyond their actual needs, the number of people who have higher-end PCs and use them for email and a Word aren't using the 512K of RAM, the 2.4Ghz P4 or the video card at all. Furthermore, an eMac is perfect for the educational market, because even in high school and college classes where they are teaching Photoshop and other high-end media apps, they still rarely test the performance of the machine—and before you point out that you have, yes someone always manages to, but most students in most situations don't need the highest end system; it would be wasted on them.
It would be better for a school to have 4 eMacs than 1 or 2 G5s because it allows twice as many students to get the hands-on teaching they really need. Furthermore, computers are overused in schools as it is, giving them the highest-end machine possible is more ego than anything else. Most graphic designers, photoshop maivens, even architects and engineers that I know cut their teeth on low-end machines, and in the last two cases, these are guys who are using 1.4Ghz P4s or 800mhz G4s. Will they buy a G5 or a 3.4HT P4? Yeah, when their current machines die.
Again, except for the psuedo-professional fragger and Pixar (ex.) most people don't need more than 32mb of VRAM right now—don't want to be like Bill and state 640k of memory is enough—in two or three years, 32mb of VRAM would be worthless.
Oh, and this is the 'low-end machine' this is the bottom of the barrel for Apple, the cheap fast Ford Focus of the line so to speak, there's a GT at the top.

 

[sjk]

Even an underclocked 970FX would be too hot.

And for me this question still remains unanswered: what technology is currently available and has been sufficiently tested for Apple to use in a G5 PowerBook to handle the heat? G5 PBs running hotter than current G4 models and/or with less battery life doesn't sound too appealing; I'd probably prefer a G4 PB if that happened.

The updated eMac is a tempting interim machine for me 'til something like a G5 iMac or less power-consuming G5 PM is out. Two concerns are the fan noise and it using more power than an iMac. I've heard mixed reports about the former so I'll have to find a quiet moment at the Apple store to do my own testing. The latter would be less an issue after my wife inherited the system since she wouldn't leave it running 24x7 like me. And it kinda feels like a step backwards using a CRT instead of LCD display, tho' having higher resolution than a 15" iMac helps compensate for that.

 

[Stecchino]

I am I the only one to think that apple could find a lot of switchers if instead of an integrated system this spec of machine was available as a stand alone tower or desktop unit.

I agree completely.

 

[sjk]

I would get an eMac to complement my iBook, I think I would love to have it.

The announcement turned my attention to the eMac instead of any current iMac model. I'd still use my 600MHz for things that wouldn't be uncomfortably pokey in comparison.

I eventually want a system with a 20" LCD (higher resolution is my #1 priority after being stuck at 1024x768 for 2.5 years) but now am less interested in any G4 iMac, even if the current line gets an eMac-like bump update soon. As someone mentioned, that dissipat(ed|ing) enthusiasm (increased by the eMac announcement, for some) is a well-founded reason why Apple should release a G5 iMac (or similar model) sooner rather than later if they intend keeping that product line alive and hopefully growing. Also, coinciding G5 PM updates (already overdue, for many) would become almost mandatory to minimize product conflict if a G5 iMac were announced.

Regardless of all-in-one system nay-sayers I still think it's too early to declare them as "failures" but this year could be the iMac's breaking point, for better or worse. Hard to believe Apple doesn't realize that a G4 bump "now" without a G5 model by WWDC (or so) would be a highly dubious strategy. If that happens I'd suspect technical constraints rather than financial strategy issues would be the major contributing factor.

[edit: sorry for repeating any of what's previously been posted]

 

[thatwendigo]

But your proposed lineup is on par...on my key critera.....

standard equipment when compared with PCs in similar price ranges..and it is less related to actual computer speed. (which isn't really so relavant any more for the average customer especially with an all g5 lineup and a more optimized os).

That is why I like you line up and pricing....but the hard drives are a little bit small at the top of the cmac line.......but it is a reasonable trade off.

Actually, my pricing is ridiculous, in that a comparably specced Dell is going to run you only $200 less. As I've been repeating, ad nauseum, they're the only company that can even remotely compare to Apple at the moment because of the situation with profitmaking.

 

[aswitcher]

And for me this question still remains unanswered: what technology is currently available and has been sufficiently tested for Apple to use in a G5 PowerBook to handle the heat? G5 PBs running hotter than current G4 models and/or with less battery life doesn't sound too appealing; I'd probably prefer a G4 PB if that happened.

Sure. But they have to go G5. I don't think that a G4PB upgrade at this time is really going to push the envelope like the G5 will. I still feel that the i and e series will be right on its heals and the PM series streets ahead. I am sure Apple want a G5 PB ASAP...maybe they will release a G4PB rev c filler, like they did for the Titanium line and then a few months later his us with the AL line...

 

[jade]

Actually, my pricing is ridiculous, in that a comparably specced Dell is going to run you only $200 less. As I've been repeating, ad nauseum, they're the only company that can even remotely compare to Apple at the moment because of the situation with profitmaking.

And Dell doesn't compete in the retail space. blah blah. Again I'd like to note emachines actually profits because of stremlined operations. Still counts. We disagree on who Apple should count as competitors. Well I nominate Acer...because they are the 3rd PC maker to make a profit (but they have a small US presence concentrating on notebooks...but whatever)

Anyway wouldn't you love to have high performance Apple computers only $200 more than Dells? It really kills the Apple premium agrument...without even talking about bundled software.

I hope pricing like that arrives soon. The comparable hardware has comparable specs to pc-land. The emac is already very competitve price and spec wise (a few minor details like the video card) but hey.. it is great, and it will help Apple increase sales......bring on similar pricing to the rest of the line up.....like the 14" ibook could be a little cheaper and more PC users will come in droves!

Well, enough to take Apples laptop marketshare to 10%

 

[sjk]

am sure Apple want a G5 PB ASAP...maybe they will release a G4PB rev c filler, like they did for the Titanium line and then a few months later his us with the AL line...

My point was that there could still be unresolved technical issues (e.g. relating to heat and power) that will delay a G5 PB release. I'd be surprised if it's announced by WWDC, but waiting until then just for a bump upgrade to the current G4 line seems unreasonable. If Apple doesn't have more "significant" hardware announcements/releases on the horizon (certainly by WWDC) they're going to be hard pressed to offer some explanations. Might they, for example, consider a 3GHz PM at WWDC as "sufficient" to quell some of the G5 PB anticipation?

Anyway, I'm taking this eMac release as a positive sign for the months ahead regardless of what manifests.

 

[aswitcher]

My point was that there could still be unresolved technical issues (e.g. relating to heat and power) that will delay a G5 PB release. I'd be surprised if it's announced by WWDC, but waiting until then just for a bump upgrade to the current G4 line seems unreasonable. If Apple doesn't have more "significant" hardware announcements/releases on the horizon (certainly by WWDC) they're going to be hard pressed to offer some explanations. Might they, for example, consider a 3GHz PM at WWDC as "sufficient" to quell some of the G5 PB anticipation?

I don't think so because same issues for PB apple re power and heat.

As to the G4PB, if the G5PB is a ways off then a G4 should appear ASAP, especially if the iBooks get another bounce. I can't think of any reason to delay their release, as I am not aware of any parts or issues that would delay them. But what can we really expect to attract those waiting for G5PBs to the G4?
Faster G4 chip, maybe with bigger cache, better bus, 128 VRAM, better resolution screens, price drop, OEM MS Office X, better batteries, ...?

I doubt we would get all these, so I can't say I will be convinced to jump since this is my desktop replacement I want to run for 3-4 years or even longer...

 

[Torajima]

eMacs cheaper?

Just priced a Dell on their business site, tried to match what you get with an eMac.

The cheap Dells do not come with firewire, dial-up modems, combo drives, or speakers. You have to pay extra for these things. Nor do they come with a decent video card (integrated video), and you can NOT upgrade to a better card. I did upgrade the OS to XP Pro (to get similar functionality to OSX).

Added Norton Antivirus (since you MUST use anti-virus on a PC), and Jukebox Plus and Photo Album Premium... to try to match what you get with iLife (still doesn't, though... no Sequencer software, no decent movie editing software, etc).

Disregarded any of Dell's promotions (double your memory!) as these change weekly and similar deals can be found thru Apple dealers (I believe Macwarehouse is currently offering free ram and printers with the purchase of an eMac).

Dell's price? $927. Even without the added software, it's still $837.

Certaintly makes it easier for us MIS guys to convice our companies to buy Macs...

 

[byrdinthesky]

Gonna Switch!

Alright I am finally serious about switching. The only cocern I have is that I use Microsoft Publisher everyday. Does anybody know of a program that is comparable to Publisher for the Mac.

 

[aswitcher]

Alright I am finally serious about switching. The only cocern I have is that I use Microsoft Publisher everyday. Does anybody know of a program that is comparable to Publisher for the Mac.

Not my area but have you looked at Adobe, Creative Suite or Quark...?

 

[Photorun]

Alright I am finally serious about switching. The only cocern I have is that I use Microsoft Publisher everyday. Does anybody know of a program that is comparable to Publisher for the Mac.

I tried to help you as best I could though sadly Microshaft's website is so effed up you can't really make out what Publisher does or doesn't. The most I know of it is whenever any of the prepress shops or printers I know actually get a M$ Publisher file for output they curse vehemently at both the files, how buggy they are for an electronic medium, and usually a few expletives thrown behind the back of the person who actually brought the files in and uses it and thinks it's a serious layout program.

Your best bet would probably be Adobe InDesign, who's pricing scales depending on your industry. Adobe PageMaker is EOLed and Quark is for idiots that still think it's 1992 and can't get a grip or a life.

There's a couple lesser, and less powerful apps. One is free and will probably come on your Mac, that being AppleWorks. AppleWorks is a bit dated though and no powerful. Another app that's relatively inexpensive is RagTime. I've seen it, it's interesting and compelling a few German guys sat down and wrote it for OS X. Though compelling and whether a prepress shop could print it I don't know, it can make PDFs though so depending on the printer, maybe. There is also potentially UNIX/Linux flavored apps that do desktop publishing, they'd run fine through X11, I've used StarOffice before which is basically Microsuck Orface but for Linux. You could look there.

You definitely have options so good luck and welcome aboard!

 

[Spades]

I can't quite make out what Publisher does either, but it sounds like Pagemaker (or rather, whatever is replacing Pagemaker) might work. If you're publishing text documents with minimal graphics a good unix-based alternative is TeX. It's very different from Pagemaker (and probably Publisher). It isn't even a GUI application, and it has a steep learning curve. However, it has some great features you don't get from a GUI, and it's free. If you do more with graphics than pasting figures into the document though, it's not what you're looking for.

Alright I am finally serious about switching. The only cocern I have is that I use Microsoft Publisher everyday. Does anybody know of a program that is comparable to Publisher for the Mac.

 

[kyeblue]

low price for memory upgrade for new eMAC

upgrading to 1G only cost only $225 compare to $360 for iMAC.

look forward to seeing the same price drop for other models.

 

[RichardCarletta]

Geez , I go away for a few days and look what happens

New eMac represents the new low standards for Apple's productline this year. New iMacs will definitely arrive by June. Apple better make sure that 1.8 or 2 GHZ 17 " or 20" G5 iMacs are available as well as a lowend ( $1000) combo drive 7447 1.5 GHZ 15" G4 iMac . No One would want to buy a 1.6 GHZ G5 iMac when a 1.5 GHZ G4 will be available soon. The 1.6 GHZ G5 is dead as a doornail . Even next year , when the eMac gets updated to a G5 , a 1.6 GHZ G5 would not boost the performance much beyond the newest 1.5 GHZ 7447 G4.

Next year , the eMac needs a Slightly different form factor . A 19" 2048 X 1536 CRT 2 GHZ G5 8X Superdrive Special edition . 9 color chioces : Vanilla , Strawberry, Blueberry, Orange, Grape, Lime, Lemon, Chocolate, licorice. Make them execlusively available at Walmart , Price : $1300

 

[jade]

Just priced a Dell on their business site, tried to match what you get with an eMac.

The cheap Dells do not come with firewire, dial-up modems, combo drives, or speakers. You have to pay extra for these things. Nor do they come with a decent video card (integrated video), and you can NOT upgrade to a better card.

you can stick an after market video card into the AGP slot.

I did upgrade the OS to XP Pro (to get similar functionality to OSX).

Added Norton Antivirus (since you MUST use anti-virus on a PC), and Jukebox Plus and Photo Album Premium... to try to match what you get with iLife (still doesn't, though... no Sequencer software, no decent movie editing software, etc).

Cheap people can get the free virus protection offered by microsoft and computer associates

Disregarded any of Dell's promotions (double your memory!) as these change weekly and similar deals can be found thru Apple dealers (I believe Macwarehouse is currently offering free ram and printers with the purchase of an eMac).

Dell's price? $927. Even without the added software, it's still $837.

Certaintly makes it easier for us MIS guys to convice our companies to buy Macs...

But emacs are very price competitve...although I still wish there was a headless one...since on the PC you have more options for expandable machines in all price ranges.

 

[armchainmstenw]

hmm

Too bad they're not 700 dollars cheaper...

 

[allpar]

Don't forget to run by MacUpdate and/or versiontracker for more ideas - isn't there a program like Compose or Create or something? Much mroe reasonably priced and the PDF files should be fine at the printer. InDesign is the way to go if you can afford it (MAJOR academic discounts). Works a lot like PageMaker but more powerful and compatible.

Regarding the eMac, consider that it seems to be every bit as powerful as the tower G4 that is still selling for $1200...it's a better deal than the iMac in some ways. Yes, a G5 powered eMac would be ideal, but it's not happening - yet. I suspect it's in the works - how else to use all those extra 1.6 and 1.8 970s?