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LMAO you must me new here.

Macintosh LXii or similar workstations were not quality machines. I’m referring to the early to mid 90’s Mac’s under Amelio.
Power Mac G4 Cube with its horrible acrylic quality standards failing the outside casing? Real quality there and they killed that in 3yrs!
iMac G4’s and G5’s with various dead display or video card manufacturers fault issues and recalls?!
Cheap plastics on the 12” MacBook prior to 2008 cracking easily under normal use?!

Yeah Apple was built on quality lol. Apple. Suffered the same issues like any other manufacturer. Apple was built on customers dreams, font type (desktop publishing) breaking computing into new industries (visual arts, music production, video editing), education market in the USA, OS reliability! Those are the hallmarks of Apple that has remained since day 1, not this “quality” your talking about. Doesn’t take a genius to prove this either just come through all of the threads here over the decades.


The education market was what kept Apple healthy as well since day one until it forgot about creating innovative products and forgot about education - ask Steve Jobs. Better yet you can watch the Macworld conference of his return - he himself specifically stated that. That’s why the iMac was born - not just for consumers but also to help in K12. It eventually became the eMac specifically for that market.

Lol I’ve been following MacRumors for well over a decade and have been using Macs since 1984, and have never read such a convoluted assessment of Apple. Of course Apple produced quality - if it hadn’t, it would never have become the financial colossus you seem to venerate. Anyways the party’s over either way.
 
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Anyways the party’s over either way.

Are you saying Apple don’t produce quality products anymore? If so I have to strongly dissagree, look at the AirPods, Apple Watch and iPhone X as an example all brilliant products, I’d say the party is far from over, Jobs as gone time has moved on and it’s a bit of a different Apple, the party isn’t over it’s just moved to a different room.
 
Are you saying Apple don’t produce quality products anymore? If so I have to strongly dissagree, look at the AirPods, Apple Watch and iPhone X as an example all brilliant products, I’d say the party is far from over, Jobs as gone time has moved on and it’s a bit of a different Apple, the party isn’t over it’s just moved to a different room.


I wish I shared your enthusiasm. AirPods are way too limiting for me personally, way too Apple-centric, where consideration for using Apple products like AirPods & iPhones in the "non-Apple world" is pretty much ignored, sadly typical for Apple of course. Listening to music for me is done via Apple iPhones only 20% of the time, where my high-quality corded headphones/buds do the majority of the heavy lifting for music production & listening. Apple watch has never interested me, personally, and that's OK. iPhone X to me is a joke - $1000+ for a fragile item destined to be replaced in 2-3 years.

I agree more with @Jesse Waugh. The shine has rubbed off, "it just works" is "it's just a memory now," and Apple is mostly a profit-driven fashion-first (instead of function/user-first) shadow of itself. I hope that changes someday soon.
 
I have to agree. It honestly takes a bit of study to figure out how to differentiate these products. The differences seem kind of arbitrary (e.g., the current Air has the weaker display and hard disk at entry level, but has a superior selection of (now "legacy") ports that I use daily when compared to even the spec'ed up MB or MBP.) Then there's the matter of the keyboard on the new MB and MBP, but the more comfortable keyboard on the Air.

I'm beginning to think about replacing my 2013 MBP, and I haven't a clue which machine I should be looking at.
my 2011 MBP is still going strong, and to replace it wi would have to pay 3k about 500 more then what I originally paid. was thinking that I really don't need that much power, but trying to figure out if I go for high end MB or low end MBP is kind of maddening. And I am not really sure about the new graphic chips since they are reliant on the CPU. In any event waiting until June would be best as all should be on 8th gen Intel, lower power, and that means 13inch will be or can be quad core, which then helps the iris or whatever graphics chip.
 
I wish I shared your enthusiasm. AirPods are way too limiting for me personally, way too Apple-centric, where consideration for using Apple products like AirPods & iPhones in the "non-Apple world" is pretty much ignored, sadly typical for Apple of course. Listening to music for me is done via Apple iPhones only 20% of the time, where my high-quality corded headphones/buds do the majority of the heavy lifting for music production & listening. Apple watch has never interested me, personally, and that's OK. iPhone X to me is a joke - $1000+ for a fragile item destined to be replaced in 2-3 years.

I agree more with @Jesse Waugh. The shine has rubbed off, "it just works" is "it's just a memory now," and Apple is mostly a profit-driven fashion-first (instead of function/user-first) shadow of itself. I hope that changes someday soon.

Your a rare one because the AirPods are very popular and so is the Apple Watch, maybe the shine has rubbed off for you but a lot of people are still using and loving Apple products, myself included.
 
my 2011 MBP is still going strong, and to replace it wi would have to pay 3k about 500 more then what I originally paid. was thinking that I really don't need that much power, but trying to figure out if I go for high end MB or low end MBP is kind of maddening. And I am not really sure about the new graphic chips since they are reliant on the CPU. In any event waiting until June would be best as all should be on 8th gen Intel, lower power, and that means 13inch will be or can be quad core, which then helps the iris or whatever graphics chip.
I'm in a similar situation and decided, based on the current models and my usage, that I won't be buying a new MBP.

I plan to buy an iMac on the next refresh, save a whole lot of money compared to a MBP I'd be interested in, keep my 2011 MBP and an iPad for my portability needs. If I want to replace my MBP for a cheap MBA or even a base MB, I'm still paying less and getting a more powerful device at home and a lighter device on the road so there really is no way to justify the high price of the current MBPs for me.

We'll see if this changes in the future.
 
Your a rare one because the AirPods are very popular and so is the Apple Watch, maybe the shine has rubbed off for you but a lot of people are still using and loving Apple products, myself included.

I suppose so. For me, AirPods & AppleWatch mean nothing when, IMHO, the iphone, MacBook, and iOS/OSX priorities are so far out of whack compared to 5 years ago.
 
Lol I’ve been following MacRumors for well over a decade and have been using Macs since 1984, and have never read such a convoluted assessment of Apple. Of course Apple produced quality - if it hadn’t, it would never have become the financial colossus you seem to venerate. Anyways the party’s over either way.

So you’re denying the many mishaps they’ve had? I forgot to mention the “titanium paint” on the G4 TiBook ~ my favourite Mac of all time to be honest.

Honestly I feel Apple had a culture from the very beginning, bringing computing to consumers first, not corporations, and empowering consumers (educators, students, etc) and making technology accessible and easy to use so that we can expan our minds use of tech not focus on the tech itself.

That “culture” still remains and current products, the majority still shows quality and care in their user base. Watch, MacBook Pro, iMac, and iPad. I do want an updated Mac amino and the price of the currrnt MacBook to drop $300US, and give it 2 USB-C ports with SD card reader.
 
oh how exciting! a NEW macbook with OLD hardware to justify a cheaper price. SIGN. ME. UP.

The hardware in an updated MBA may not be as "old" as you presume. Intel is discontinuing production of many of the older CPUs Apple has been using. I would expect a Kaby Lake system so that the entire lineup would have the same baseline for 4k encode/decode.


I have to agree. It honestly takes a bit of study to figure out how to differentiate these products. The differences seem kind of arbitrary (e.g., the current Air has the weaker display and hard disk at entry level, but has a superior selection of (now "legacy") ports that I use daily when compared to even the spec'ed up MB or MBP.) Then there's the matter of the keyboard on the new MB and MBP, but the more comfortable keyboard on the Air.

I'm beginning to think about replacing my 2013 MBP, and I haven't a clue which machine I should be looking at.

The inability to easily repair or clean the MB/MBP keyboards is preventing me from even considering a purchase of any current Apple laptop at this point.


Like the Dell XPS 13 where the lack of bezel forced them to put the camera down on the hinge so it looks up your nose when you use it? That doesn't sound like an Apple move.

Personally, I would take a laptop without a camera; however, I doubt Apple would do this. Why can't Apple use a camera system the size of the notch on the iPhone X on a laptop? (But please, no notch, just put in an even bezel across the top!) Wouldn't that save space to reduce the size of the bezels? In fact, an Apple laptop would be the one system where I would prefer FaceID over TouchID. (I still prefer TouchID on the iPhone.)


I’m almost entirely sure these rumors are just of a new updated MacBook.

Not a ‘new entry level’ machine that MR are saying for clicks, or a new MacBook Air.
The air is gone, the MacBook will take its place and they’ll bring it in at a cheaper price (about time).

The line will be MacBook and MacBook Pro once again.


*I god dam hope I am right.

I agree. I think the MBA will be discontinued and the internals of the "new, updated" MB(A) will simply be reflected in the lower price point of a MB.


One way to achieve a lower price point would be a custom AMD Raven Ridge APU with T2 embedded on SoC. Low power Intel's have and will have a lousy iGPU that is not sufficient for a retina display. Raven Ridge APU would be a good option for the next Mac mini as well.

I'm sure that whenever Apple releases a Mac with ARM CPU, it wont be a cheap model. Apple wants to have a premium feel for it's first Mac's with ARM. So, Macbook would be the introduction model, if ever, for ARM Mac.

I would not mind an AMD APU in a lower-end MB(A)/Mac Mini system, but the problem might arise in that the GPU in the AMD APU outperforms the Intel (U)HD GPU by a significant margin.
 
The ntMBP is exactly what u are asking here for. Retina, i7, fan.

And it's smaller, thinner and same weight as the Air.
So why is it less portable?

The 11” mba was only 1kg and had legacy ports.

TBH I don’t think a base MBP with an i7 256gb and 8gb ram is worth £1720. Add the 512gb to make it a similar spec £1920.

They are too expensive for what they are. I don’t think they deserve the pro moniker.
 
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"I’m almost entirely sure these rumors are just of a new updated MacBook." => Agreed

"The air is gone, the MacBook will take its place and they’ll bring it in at a cheaper price" => I think the MBA will stick around but at a lower price point ( $799 or $899) just to satsify educational institutes.

The air may still disappear for regular consumers. Like the white MacBook did but my University where still able to purchase them you nearly another year.
 
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....

I travel a lot with the job, its such a pain to move the data to the desktop and then move it to the drive. Surely it wouldn't have been that difficult to add one more port. It wouldn't compete with a macbook pro because its not as powerful and throttles... but its great for viewing images with the screen... and should be good at things like file transfer as its a laptop... its a frustrating experience.
....

when the MacBook was reintroduced the MBA 11" was still on the market. So in a "Princess and Pea", lightest weight contest the MBA 11" was the 'weight to beat' not the MBP.

MBA 11" 2.38 lbs ( 1.08 kg)
MB 12" 2.03 lbs ( 0.92 kg)
MBP 13" (2017) 3.02 lbs (1.37 kg) for context
MBA 13" (2017) 2.96 lbs (1.35 kg) for context

One of the design targets for the Macbook was the hit 2.0 lbs ( or under 1 kg). That's what is getting in the way of the port. The case is made of aluminum and Apple is having to chuck as much dense metal as possible to limbo under that limit.

That is why the "wings" and the recessed keyboard tray is gone. The keyboard goes all the way to the edge. ( so no parts where the keyboard are possible because you intersect the key mechanisms). The rigidity of the display lid... again shave off aluminum to limbo under this weight constraint. The screen is slight smaller than 13" to save glass weight. The object is to shoot for a screen about just as wide as keyboard and cut off any additional metal outside that width.



The ports are stuffed into a the upper corner where the keyboard has to stop because the lid hinge mounting point is in the way.

YXJyNCauwon5IPOQ.medium

Step 5 of iFixit Teardown of 2016 model (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Retina+MacBook+2016+Teardown/62149 )
[ The black thing taking up all the space is the keyboard. ]

K6JD2QPRYPChbJj4.medium

Step 10 of the iFixit Teardown of the 2015 model. (not much has changed at the ports ) This is better venue of the limited space that the electronics board to support the headphone jack amp and electronics.

One option would be to dump the headphone jack. It makes even less sense not to label the system "Air" is headphones are also default wireless. Go brave like with the iPhone. ( I think there are more folks complaining about a lack of second port than would complain if there were no headphone jack. )

Second option would be backtrack to MBA 11" weight. That still would be below the MBA and MBP 2017 models. Add some depth so the corner space was larger for electronics and perhaps could even get TBv3 controllers in there. A bit more thickness for keytravel ( to MBP level).
[ These too small corners are another reason way the MacBook is stuck with simple USB Type-C and not Thunderbolt. There are physical chips that have to be within 1-2 inches of the port for it work as it should in a computer system ( were have to alt-mode to DisplayPort and pure USB 3.1 gen2 ]


I still think the basic 13" MBP is poor for its price and size especially when the newer one came out in 2015 with a £3-400 price hike for pretty much no reason at all bar the touch bar. Its crazy they call it a pro it bang average and has no dedicated graphics with 2 ports, honestly whats pro about it? The 13 should be a macbook and macbook should be called the air. At least then there would be some hierarchy to the lineup.

i suspect that this two port, function key, 2016 MBP 13" model was really the MBA 13" upgrade that got hijacked. Apple may not have known if all the touch bar kinks would get worked out in time so they had two MBP 13' in models the more far reaching one failed. (it was probably fairly certain it was going to fall short on affordability regardless of how the tech turned out) They cranked up the screen price ( high color gamut , backlighting, etc. ) . What is odd about the too is that the 2 port and 4 port models weight exactly the same. The 2 port has more battery stuffed in and the 4 port model makes other trade-offs to hit the exact same weight. That is somewhat suggestive they were in a design bake-off with each other for the same slot.

If they had redesigned the macbook air with a retina display with the availability of i7 chips with a cooler as previous I would have been more than happy. Unfortunately they didnt so I bought the macbook as there wasn't another portable choice.

It seems you bought the MacBook more for the screen than the "lowest possible" weight. The current MBA 13" and MBP 13" have a negligible weight difference. If the MBA 13" is "low enough" weight the MBP 13" should be too.


If Apple rigidly sticks with the 2.0 lbs weight constraint for the MacBook I suspect it wouldn't be until OLED displays get cost effective (and Apple can shrink the batteries a bit) until get to point can do two ports + headphone jack.
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*5* separate 13" models? Really?

There was a time when Steve Jobs would have instantly killed the idea of such a complicated and confusing product strategy. Let's hope Apple haven't gone THAT insane...

There are only 4 ( the Macbook turned MB air is 12" )

Back in Steve Jobs days there were 13' and 15" matte and glossy models. The non-hiDPI and hiDPI models could be rolled up into one conceptual model just like those were. Should add no more confusion than there was then.

The screen size isn't the sole driver here. The touch bar adding an Apple watch price ( $300 , ~25-30% markup) to the system's cost is one of the things that is a driver here of why there are more models also. 25% on top of Apple's 30% markup leaves people behind and segmented on cost.

Steve jobs introduced the MBA into the MB + MBP mix. So if was so horrible why did he add a 3rd? Today Apple sells at least twice as many laptops as when the more simplified model was in place. More people with more diverse preferences are in laptops now.
 
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The Retina MacBook is in some ways worse than the first MBA. It has a great screen, but only one port that you also have to tie up if you're charging (even the ****** old first-gen MBA gave you a way to charge and connect at the same time.) The rMB has a terrible keyboard. It's pretty slow, and battery life is substandard.

The 3 way (USB C to USB C, HDMI and USB 3) dongle addresses the "tied up port" issue, though it's ferociously expensive. The keyboard on the 2017 MB is great. Far and away better than the keyboard on the earlier models. Sufficiently clicky to type on with ease. As for "slow', well, one doesn't expect much from it given the processor it has, in much the same way you don't buy a 50CC scooter and then moan that it won't do 60MPH. The battery life is fine - as advertised. I love my 2017 MB, it's perfect for my needs. If I needed more power, I'd buy something more appropriate.
 
I really do hate Apple nowadays, to the point I like to see the company crumble. Things were different when I was in art school and having to decided between an iMac or G3 Tower. Things were good when it didn't matter if I bought a Shuffle or a Nano, both were great products. The future looked great when I eagerly waited for the next Mac mini or AppleTV for my media station. Now...I need to spend hours or days to research on products which are severely underpowered but has ports, faster but cost more and less ports, and something in the middle which looks tempting but is just a watered down version of the more expensive option.

I'm just waiting for the next "real" Mac, going for the top of the line model, then shutting myself away from all the Apple ecosystem nonsense.
 
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I really do hate Apple nowadays, to the point I like to see the company crumble. Things were different when I was in art school and having to decided between an iMac or G3 Tower. Things were good when it didn't matter if I bought a Shuffle or a Nano, both were great products. The future looked great when I eagerly waited for the next Mac mini or AppleTV for my media station. Now...I need to spend hours or days to research on products which are severely underpowered but has ports, faster but cost more and less ports, and something in the middle which looks tempting but is just a watered down version of the more expensive option.

I'm just waiting for the next "real" Mac, going for the top of the line model, then shutting myself away from all the Apple ecosystem nonsense.
So you hate Apple to the point of buying a 5k+ machine from them as soon as it comes out? :rolleyes:
 
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to just offer the MacBook at a lower price and stop selling the Air?

I suspect this is what Apple is going to do. People seem to forget that the original Macbook Air was very expensive compared to the low-end Macbook at the time, and eventually when they phased-out the Macbook, the Macbook Air dropped in price to fill that price point. I think the same thing is going to happen, but in reverse.
 
So you hate Apple to the point of buying a 5k+ machine from them as soon as it comes out? :rolleyes:
Yes, apparently you're not bright enough to understand the point of my post. Apple can make great products but now just makes products which get minor changes each year just to appease stock holders. Hence, I stated that I'll wait for the next "real" Mac.
 
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just offer the MacBook at a lower price and stop selling the Air?

You would think so, but if the Air survived this long and getting "refresh" then that's enough proof there is still life in the machine.

I never thought the Air would die even when others reckon it would have been the end several years ago.
 
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just offer the MacBook at a lower price and stop selling the Air?
11", 12", 13" MacBook Air/Nothing with the diverse price range and different resolutions has got to be confusing to people. Plus, the 13" Air and the 13" Pro is likely a little confusing too.

It's likely chasing people away due to indecision/confusion.

Make a 11" or 12" MacBook (nothing) and make an Air the same size. Lower power/long hours vs. higher power and less hours (plus the cost factor).

Just my 2 cents....
 
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