There isn't any proof needed. The higher watts that the processor takes the faster it will drain the battery. It's not my problem that Intel includes the IGP in the processor watt rating. That would make it even worse because Apple would have to include a dedicated GPU that would take even more power. They aren't going to advertise "Zero processor performance gains, now with worse graphics than before!"
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NEW! Hp Envy 14"/17" Make buying a macbook pro decision harder?
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There isn't any proof needed. The higher watts that the processor takes the faster it will drain the battery. It's not my problem that Intel includes the IGP in the processor watt rating. That would make it even worse because Apple would have to include a dedicated GPU that would take even more power. They aren't going to advertise "Zero processor performance gains, now with worse graphics than before!"
I don't believe you'll be able to change my belief that standard voltage Arrandale does not adversely reduce battery life compared to a medium voltage Penryn processor.
Great, then you can go back into your cave and think over how the 13" was first of all not made to use 35 watt processors and second, how over time the added 10 watts does add up.
They likely will redesign it in 2011 for Sandy Bridge(doubt it'll be 14" though unless they go 16:9). But for now, there was no need or reason to.
Apple has used 35W processors in their 13" models. Passively cooled Intel ICH/PCH components are nothing new as well. Overall the heatpipe to cool the processor and one more chip isn't anything new. It's interesting to compare the voltages of standard Arrandale and medium Penryn.
Apple didn't start using 25 watt processors in the white MacBook until they redesigned it in the unibody enclosure. The 13" Aluminum MacBook never used 35 watt processors and neither has the unibody white MacBook.
How dramatically has the cooling changed in the Unibody models to make it much more inferior to the previous ones?
Standard voltage Arrandale also runs at lower voltages than medium Penryn.
Enough for Apple not to change what processor wattage they were using until 2009 in the white MacBook.
They also have much lower clock speeds.
what is it with u lot, are you deluded, why can't u have negative thread, its not the official apple forums, get over it, u say speak negative elsewhere, well i say take your opposition elsewhere, this thread is rightly comparing a similar product, that is much cheaper, some people buy the mac not for OSX, but for the design, screen etc, most new buyers can't even use OSX.
personally, i'm thinking about the envy, with win 7 on the go, and to save up for compliment it with a imac for home use and OSX.
personally, i'm thinking about the envy, with win 7 on the go, and to save up for compliment it with a imac for home use and OSX.
@ OP:
HP laptops are S***. God help you if you ever have to send one in for repair. Their build quality is really low and could never ever hold a candle to the MBP. The Envy is definitely a step up but even if someone offered me one for free I wouldn't take it because they copied Apple and you know that design is nowhere as good as the unibody MBP. I hate working off of 16:9 screens. The trackpad in the Envy is nowhere as nice or advanced as the trackpad in the MBP.
Not to be biased or anything but it was very smart on HP's part to bring back the backlit keyboard and use a very good powerful GPU and include a slot load blu-ray burner. Those will definitely sway people to HP. In the long run HP is a company you do not want to deal with. Their customer service is so bad its not even funny. I called Apple the other day about a question on my upcoming MBP and I actually got an American speaking person who was friendly and seemed very knowledgeable. Seems like every HP laptop I have owned always had issues with the sound card. If you are getting an upcoming Envy 14 or 17 I wish you the best of luck with it.
HP laptops are S***. God help you if you ever have to send one in for repair. Their build quality is really low and could never ever hold a candle to the MBP. The Envy is definitely a step up but even if someone offered me one for free I wouldn't take it because they copied Apple and you know that design is nowhere as good as the unibody MBP. I hate working off of 16:9 screens. The trackpad in the Envy is nowhere as nice or advanced as the trackpad in the MBP.
Not to be biased or anything but it was very smart on HP's part to bring back the backlit keyboard and use a very good powerful GPU and include a slot load blu-ray burner. Those will definitely sway people to HP. In the long run HP is a company you do not want to deal with. Their customer service is so bad its not even funny. I called Apple the other day about a question on my upcoming MBP and I actually got an American speaking person who was friendly and seemed very knowledgeable. Seems like every HP laptop I have owned always had issues with the sound card. If you are getting an upcoming Envy 14 or 17 I wish you the best of luck with it.
wow the Envy 14 look attractive and powerful than 
plus it is cheaper.
The end decision making factor is Windows vs. Macs
Besides that I do not know how the heat issue with the original 13 vs. the 14 I see that they have a new added slit in the center so that heat can be better dissipated but I would be curious to its real world benefits...I wish they used a ultra low voltage processor instead of a quad core...I rather prefer better battery life over performance gains that I will not use in my daily application. If the new envy 14 comes with an option for low voltage I think I am practically sold. But right now I am slowly being confirmed for the MBP 15 (unsure of which to get either the i5 or the i7) the recent news of the new envy is making me reconsider... I have never used a mac and am pretty satisfied with the Windows 7 OS
plus it is cheaper.The end decision making factor is Windows vs. Macs
Besides that I do not know how the heat issue with the original 13 vs. the 14 I see that they have a new added slit in the center so that heat can be better dissipated but I would be curious to its real world benefits...I wish they used a ultra low voltage processor instead of a quad core...I rather prefer better battery life over performance gains that I will not use in my daily application. If the new envy 14 comes with an option for low voltage I think I am practically sold. But right now I am slowly being confirmed for the MBP 15 (unsure of which to get either the i5 or the i7) the recent news of the new envy is making me reconsider... I have never used a mac and am pretty satisfied with the Windows 7 OS
The 14" Envy looks very nice.
I may not have to wait until Apphole releases an Actual update to the 13" MBP. I think the current 13" MBP doesn't deserve to be called Pro.
But I wonder how heavy the 14" Envy is. I'm tired of carrying around my 15" PB.
Anyone know an approximate release date for the Envy? But of course, like always, I would wait until a thorough review is done for the Envy.
Even though I'm a Mac user, I believe in criticism towards Apphole's shortcomings. I criticize any company's products if I feel they have shortcomings. With enough constructive criticism, improvements will occur.
I may not have to wait until Apphole releases an Actual update to the 13" MBP. I think the current 13" MBP doesn't deserve to be called Pro.
But I wonder how heavy the 14" Envy is. I'm tired of carrying around my 15" PB.
Anyone know an approximate release date for the Envy? But of course, like always, I would wait until a thorough review is done for the Envy.
Even though I'm a Mac user, I believe in criticism towards Apphole's shortcomings. I criticize any company's products if I feel they have shortcomings. With enough constructive criticism, improvements will occur.
wow the Envy 14 look attractive and powerful than
The end decision making factor is Windows vs. Macs
Besides that I do not know how the heat issue with the original 13 vs. the 14 I see that they have a new added slit in the center so that heat can be better dissipated but I would be curious to its real world benefits...I wish they used a ultra low voltage processor instead of a quad core...I rather prefer better battery life over performance gains that I will not use in my daily application. If the new envy 14 comes with an option for low voltage I think I am practically sold. But right now I am slowly being confirmed for the MBP 15 (unsure of which to get either the i5 or the i7) the recent news of the new envy is making me reconsider... I have never used a mac and am pretty satisfied with the Windows 7 OS
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To save myself some copypasta do yourself a favor and read through some of this thread before you make such assumptions.
Debatable. I have the 2008 unibody MacBook. Aside from 2 finger scrolling in webpages, its every bit as unusable as every other trackpad on the market. It's a necessary evil that only gets used when I'm not at a desk and can't use a mouse.
What about it? Theres nothing special about the unibody design. Sure, it's a lot better than Apple's previous designs. But it's nothing special compared to the rest of the industry. Apple is the only company to have the problems they have. Look at the current plastic MacBook and its widespread screen cracking issues. You don't see that in the PC world. You don't see the other plastic issues Apple has had, such as cracking from heat or design flaws like the top casing on the previous generation MacBooks. You also don't see the issues with heat warping, denting, and pealing problems you see with the various metal Macs. And thanks to that aluminum unibody enclosure with no proper cooling system, you're stuck with dual core processors in a $2200 machine that aren't as fast as true quad core Core i7's in $900 1.5" thick PCs. The unibody design is both Apple's greatest design and greatest weakness.
OS X has some catching up to do when compared to Windows 7 anyway. It's kind of funny that running Windows 7 on my 2008 aluminum MacBook makes it a more capable machine than running OS X. Besides that, when you compared the Core i7 MBP to PCs, OS X doesn't justify the $1,300 price premium.
A user replaceable battery that gets 8 hours? I'll take that. That means I can replace the battery myself and even carry an extra or two so I can do whatever I like with it.
New HP lines ship with 16x9 14, 15, and 17" models.
HP has been offering 1920x1080 options on their 15 and above models for years now.
And don't forget this http://gizmodo.com/5531262/hp-pavilion-dv6-the-first-touchscreen-pavilion-notebook
Looks like HP beat Apple to the bunch again. First out with a touchscreen notebook.
Wonder how long it'll take Apple to copy. Took Apple about a year to copy HP's two tone design with a glass screen.
I'll take a wider screen with a proper aspect ratio, thank you
That is also debatable. Just ask all the groups of people who had to file class action claims against Apple because of design flaws in the iBook lines. Or the HDD recall with the MacBook. I know someone who has had multiple HDDs die on her as a result of Apple using those faulty HDDs, and she was unable to restore from Time Machine because of corrupted backups, and now Apple will do nothing to try to recover her data or compensate her for her lost work files, despite the fact that this is Apple's screw up.
And to the rest who claim HP is stealing Apple's design with the Envy, don't forget that HP had the two tone gray and black design back in 2006. They added a glass screen to it some time after. Apple took that design and Sony's keyboard and made the MacBook "Pro" as you know it today.
Look I'm a Windows guy more than a Mac guy and even I bought a new MBP because the design build and performance of the Apple laptops is unbeatable. And I did check out the envy but the MBP was just well nicer.
I am glad to see HP making strides in the right direction. Competition is a good thing. HP is the only Windows laptop maker even attempting to make something as nice as the MBP. Maybe over the next couple of revisions they will succeed but for now the MBP is the originator and the leader in the premium laptop space.
I am glad to see HP making strides in the right direction. Competition is a good thing. HP is the only Windows laptop maker even attempting to make something as nice as the MBP. Maybe over the next couple of revisions they will succeed but for now the MBP is the originator and the leader in the premium laptop space.
Huh? I did read through the entire post and all I saw was mostly you attacking people for stating their opinions or their interest in the Envy.
Hey, if the 13" refresh met my needs/expectations, I would have gotten one immediately. There were some shortcomings that I just couldn't get past it. Which is why I'm still waiting/shopping around for all these years.
I want to have that same warm feeling as when I got my Powerbook. At the time it was just right for me.
Ouch, looks like someone let the cat out of the bag.
Right, because Sony TOTALLY invented the chiclet keyboard.
If you want to wait fine. But don't complain about the refresh when I've already explained why it got what it did.
You have a unibody 2008 MacBook? Guess what, that wasn't the multitouch trackpad. And you sure are in for a surprise when you use that HP trackpad. That scrolling functionality? Good luck with that on the HP.
There's nothing special about a computer being made out of a single block of aluminum? Ok, buddy. Last I checked we were talking about the MacBook Pro, not the MacBook. Second have you heard of Gateway or HP? Their failure rates are off the charts. If you have a cracked screen you walk into the Apple store and get it replaced. I'd really love to see what kind of battery life those amazing lower clocked quad core CPU's produce.
What is it more capable of? My Mac can run every application on the planet. Any PC can't.
8 hours? LMAO! You apparently haven't read reviews on HP laptops. Enjoy your snap on battery. Just more **** for you to carry around.
That's great, the user of this thread was talking about the 14"
Again, the user was talking about the 14".
Touch screen using a desktop OS? LOL!
Yeah, thats why it's called the "Envy" right? It's a shameless design ripoff with terribly placed ports.
If all you plan on doing is watching movies then great. For the rest of us who do actual work on our computers, 16:10 is the superior aspect ratio on tinier screens.I'll take a wider screen with a proper aspect ratio, thank you
So you just happened to know someone who had that problem? I'll believe that when I see it. It still stands that Apple has the highest rated customer service in tech.
I guess that's that's why HP calls it the "Envy", right?
Right, because Sony TOTALLY invented the chiclet keyboard.
Me attacking people?
If you want to wait fine. But don't complain about the refresh when I've already explained why it got what it did.
To the above did you read my statement I clearly contributed to this thread in a possitive manner just cause I not sold on the OSX (YET!!! as I will be a first time MBP user) and it surely does not give you the right to disrespect the views of forum members
Nice post mosX and its true companies do copy each other for greater success and less research. I was going to wait till the end of May to buy my MBP with a Ipod touch due to the BTS special but if the Envy 14 proves to be a great buy w/ reasonable battery life then I will have to reconsider.
I agree. it's always good to have some healthy competition. Keeps apple from becoming lazy, so it's a win for both sides. But apple tends to do what they want, I'm not sure they even pay attention to the rest of the notebook industry..
That was not directed at you. The post that was directed at you was the quote below your quote. Hence the lines in between.
The "13 hour battery" involves that slice battery that almost doubles the thickness of the laptop. You wanna know how HP did it? The battery intrudes on the interior of the computer about as much as the hard drive does. Apple's battery for the 13" MBP is close to twice the size of the hard drive.
While I do feel Apple should've tried to retool the interior, the teardown pictures make me doubt if that would have yielded anything anyway.
Competition is good. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Unfortunately, the competition isn't enough and the imitation is rather cheap as far as the Envy goes.
And if one is seriously looking for a PC - a Thinkpad (for everyday use) or Asus (for gaming) provides for a far better choice. Be nice if the Envy gave Apple a real run for the money but premium buyers seem to prefer the MBPs by a longshot.
I'd buy a Thinkpad T410s or Asus G73JH, or even a cheap $600-700 PC laptop vs. an Envy.
Unfortunately, the competition isn't enough and the imitation is rather cheap as far as the Envy goes.
And if one is seriously looking for a PC - a Thinkpad (for everyday use) or Asus (for gaming) provides for a far better choice. Be nice if the Envy gave Apple a real run for the money but premium buyers seem to prefer the MBPs by a longshot.
I'd buy a Thinkpad T410s or Asus G73JH, or even a cheap $600-700 PC laptop vs. an Envy.
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