The TDP fixation is a bit too strong still. Two chips on a heatpipe is still the standard.
I'd have to ignore the Core i5 540M vs. the Core 2 Duo P8700. It's rather hard to do so.
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NEW! Hp Envy 14"/17" Make buying a macbook pro decision harder?
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Oh please, just because you explained it, everything is alright and we should all just accept the sub par refresh, eh?
Looks like somebody's got an ego trip.
Just like you have the right to feel that the refresh is ok, "because I already explained it", others have the right to criticize the refresh because, it's not ok.
Why is the refresh not ok? Explain to me what you would've preferred that Apple could have done that would have made this refresh so much better. Using the i5 was not an option and the i3 is not better than the Core 2 Duo. What magic did you want Apple to pull out of their ass? I'm begging to hear it.
Ouch, looks like someone let the cat out of the bag.
You have a unibody 2008 MacBook? Guess what, that wasn't the multitouch trackpad. And you sure are in for a surprise when you use that HP trackpad. That scrolling functionality? Good luck with that on the HP.
There's nothing special about a computer being made out of a single block of aluminum? Ok, buddy. Last I checked we were talking about the MacBook Pro, not the MacBook. Second have you heard of Gateway or HP? Their failure rates are off the charts. If you have a cracked screen you walk into the Apple store and get it replaced. I'd really love to see what kind of battery life those amazing lower clocked quad core CPU's produce.
What is it more capable of? My Mac can run every application on the planet. Any PC can't.
8 hours? LMAO! You apparently haven't read reviews on HP laptops. Enjoy your snap on battery. Just more **** for you to carry around.
That's great, the user of this thread was talking about the 14"
Again, the user was talking about the 14".
Touch screen using a desktop OS? LOL!
Yeah, thats why it's called the "Envy" right? It's a shameless design ripoff with terribly placed ports.
If all you plan on doing is watching movies then great. For the rest of us who do actual work on our computers, 16:10 is the superior aspect ratio on tinier screens.
So you just happened to know someone who had that problem? I'll believe that when I see it. It still stands that Apple has the highest rated customer service in tech.
I guess that's that's why HP calls it the "Envy", right?
Right, because Sony TOTALLY invented the chiclet keyboard.
Me attacking people?
If you want to wait fine. But don't complain about the refresh when I've already explained why it got what it did.
You a die hard fanboy? I say yes.
You a die hard fanboy? I say yes.
Nice strawman assumptions considering the fact I've bought one Apple product and it's an iMac from 2008. I've bought nothing else Apple related.
HP is a crap company, I'd never buy one or own one unless someone gives me one for free.
I'd buy a Sony, Lenovo, Dell, Gateway, Samsung, Toshiba, ASUS, Sager, Fujitsu, Panasonic, Kojinsha way before I'd consider buying an HP product.
I'd buy a Sony, Lenovo, Dell, Gateway, Samsung, Toshiba, ASUS, Sager, Fujitsu, Panasonic, Kojinsha way before I'd consider buying an HP product.
quality?
I saw the HP envy pictures, and I feel sorry for those that have to take that option.
Macs Are far superior in engineering, design, built quality, interface quality, battery powerful, and many other aspects, not to mention the superior quality OS, far better than windows 7.
HP has its good things of having the latest and powerful technology for a lower price, but a mac is an overall superior computer priced accordingly.
I saw the HP envy pictures, and I feel sorry for those that have to take that option.
Macs Are far superior in engineering, design, built quality, interface quality, battery powerful, and many other aspects, not to mention the superior quality OS, far better than windows 7.
HP has its good things of having the latest and powerful technology for a lower price, but a mac is an overall superior computer priced accordingly.
How is does
have a superior build quality than HP they both are Aluminum cases, (HP uses some magnesium) Both have backlit keys, similar design, engineering? (do you mean the trackpad) Plus I like the fact that one can simple add a battery plate on the bottom and have double the power and remove the bottom and be even more mobile. (Not trying to attack but trying to decipher between fact and opinion which mostly seems opinion based.)So far in my conclusion is:
MBP: Trackpad and Mac OS X Leopard
Envy: Better Graphics, faster processor, battery splice extension, Windows 7, Higher Resolution Screen, PRICE, More outputs such as Display Port, HDMI, DVI ect., Connect up to 3 monitors, (slightly more heat [but unsure of newer model with better ventilation and slightly more room])
To me these are the factual differences and not diluted with opinions...please do add to this list as one see fit.
Yea... Right.
First off I own a new 2010 i7 MBP with a ssd and 8gb ram and a 15" beats edition Envy. My new MBP rocks the Envy in virtually every comparison that I've done between the two in productivity and everyday use. Sure, at the moment windows machines are better at gaming but I rarely use my computers for that, except for star craft 2. My Envy is HOT as he'll under the most basic tasks whereas my MBP barely gets warm when doing multiple simultaneous CPU/GPU intensive tasks. The heat between the two isn't comparable. The battery life on the Envy isn't even in the ballpark of what HP claims; under normal use with 40% brightness i get *maybe* 3.5 hours use. In my MBP I average about 8.5-9 hours under the same usage. While specs-wise the Envy has more raw power, the hardware isnt built around the software like it is with apple. The MBP feels more powerful when in use and is a much faster, snappier machine. Even in gaming the MBP feels more powerful, especially when running games natively in OSX- running star craft 2 beta on both machines and I find myself playing it on my Mac over my envy 95% of the time. The envy doesn't feel as well built and feels much more flimsy in person, and that click on slice battery? Mine falls off all the time. Two have fallen off while walking with the notebook and had to be replaced. Not to mention the bulk added by this hideous burden to carry. IMO nobody in this forum haas the right to compare or judge the two unless you own or have direct experience with both. Stats on paper don't mean as much when comparing actual true life application of devices, especially when the efficiency of OSX is being compared with the inefficiency of Windows. Build quality of the MBP is FAR superior and if I had seen and used an Envy in person before i bought it, I would not have made the purchase. Oh, did i mention how loud the Envy is? Sounds like a jet taking off. Tech support is a nightmare as well. Just my 2cents.
Err0xx
How is does
So far in my conclusion is:
MBP: Trackpad and Mac OS X Leopard
Envy: Better Graphics, faster processor, battery splice extension, Windows 7, Higher Resolution Screen, PRICE, More outputs such as Display Port, HDMI, DVI ect., Connect up to 3 monitors, (slightly more heat [but unsure of newer model with better ventilation and slightly more room])
To me these are the factual differences and not diluted with opinions...please do add to this list as one see fit.
First off I own a new 2010 i7 MBP with a ssd and 8gb ram and a 15" beats edition Envy. My new MBP rocks the Envy in virtually every comparison that I've done between the two in productivity and everyday use. Sure, at the moment windows machines are better at gaming but I rarely use my computers for that, except for star craft 2
. My Envy is HOT as he'll under the most basic tasks whereas my MBP barely gets warm when doing multiple simultaneous CPU/GPU intensive tasks. The heat between the two isn't comparable. The battery life on the Envy isn't even in the ballpark of what HP claims; under normal use with 40% brightness i get *maybe* 3.5 hours use. In my MBP I average about 8.5-9 hours under the same usage. While specs-wise the Envy has more raw power, the hardware isnt built around the software like it is with apple. The MBP feels more powerful when in use and is a much faster, snappier machine. Even in gaming the MBP feels more powerful, especially when running games natively in OSX- running star craft 2 beta on both machines and I find myself playing it on my Mac over my envy 95% of the time. The envy doesn't feel as well built and feels much more flimsy in person, and that click on slice battery? Mine falls off all the time. Two have fallen off while walking with the notebook and had to be replaced. Not to mention the bulk added by this hideous burden to carry. IMO nobody in this forum haas the right to compare or judge the two unless you own or have direct experience with both. Stats on paper don't mean as much when comparing actual true life application of devices, especially when the efficiency of OSX is being compared with the inefficiency of Windows. Build quality of the MBP is FAR superior and if I had seen and used an Envy in person before i bought it, I would not have made the purchase. Oh, did i mention how loud the Envy is? Sounds like a jet taking off. Tech support is a nightmare as well. Just my 2cents.Err0xx
Envy=Useless
When I look at that Envy, I cringe. They have TRIED to copy Apples aesthetics but they've failed miserably. It looks totally ugly. The MBP look SO MUCH BETTER than they Envy. And I'M SURE the MBP's multitouch trackpad kills the Envy's trackpad.
Also, OS X is THE BEST OS EVER. Even when I use Windows 7 I HATE the user experience.
I switched 3 years ago to Mac and I will never go back!!
FTW!
When I look at that Envy, I cringe. They have TRIED to copy Apples aesthetics but they've failed miserably. It looks totally ugly. The MBP look SO MUCH BETTER than they Envy. And I'M SURE the MBP's multitouch trackpad kills the Envy's trackpad.
Also, OS X is THE BEST OS EVER. Even when I use Windows 7 I HATE the user experience.
I switched 3 years ago to Mac and I will never go back!!
FTW!yea the new 14' we are all talking about is 999 with the mention specs, its funny that you participate in help making someones decision with NO knowledge about the compared products or a simple GOOGLE search. No disrespect But I would hate if any of my threads were answered by people with no knowledge of the questions and give an opinion. (not a direct attack to you but more so on any thats going to help should be helpful)
How is does
So far in my conclusion is:
MBP: Trackpad and Mac OS X Leopard
Envy: Better Graphics, faster processor, battery splice extension, Windows 7, Higher Resolution Screen, PRICE, More outputs such as Display Port, HDMI, DVI ect., Connect up to 3 monitors, (slightly more heat [but unsure of newer model with better ventilation and slightly more room])
To me these are the factual differences and not diluted with opinions...please do add to this list as one see fit.
Some good points but in terms of design, a little goes a long way and the design of the HP, though hard as they tried to copy the MBP, is still not right. You can almost sense that HP put all the hardware then wrapped it up in a body ,whereas the Mac gets the body then fits all the essentials not more. each approach has its positives and negatives.
Envy:
Better Graphics, > yes
faster processor, > yes
battery splice extension > with the hungrier CPU and GPU this is more of a requirement rather than option.
Windows 7, > not a factor due to bootcamp
Higher Resolution Screen, > not always a good thing considering all the threads with ppl who didnt even want the high res bump on the recent MBP.
PRICE > have we confirmed this?
More outputs such as Display Port, HDMI, DVI ect., > once again great to have options, but from a user preference I rather have less holes and thinner body.
Connect up to 3 monitors > i'd get a desktop if I ever need 3 monitors on the go. doesn't align with the whole portable thing =)
About your list:
Better graphics, yes.
Faster processor, yes.
Battery slice, completely necessary because the regular battery simply isn't sufficient
Windows 7, not necessarily a con
Higher resolution screen, that's a matter of opinion; I don't like squinting
Price, yes
More outputs, ish. The Envy has MDP and HDMI, not DVI. the 17" also has VGA. Considering DP/MDP can daisy-chain monitors (depending on which spec HP implemented; I'm assuming the newest), it doesn't really matter how many monitors the computer can be directly connected to
This is too good. Let's begin shall we?
Have a lookie here for an HP Envy customer report.
Build quality is how sturdy and well put together something is and will last. HP's computer are notorious for having high failure rates. They not only look cheap, but feel cheap. You like the fact that you can more than double the weight of your notebook to make it more "portable"? LMAO! The HP Envy's battery life is mediocre and no where near what is stated. Many reviews on their own damn website prove this.How is does
Better processor? Where the hell did you pull that out of your ass from? They are both using Arrandale chips. Battery splice extension? Again, enjoy adding twice the weight of the laptop just to get a decent amount of time. Higher resolution screen? The 14" Envy has a 1600x900 display. The 15" MBP goes up to 1680x1050. Price? Yeah but by the time you are so fed up with HP's absolute garbage customer support you'll be thinking otherwise. More outputs that you don't need and just take up space on the motherboard.
Have a lookie here for an HP Envy customer report.
Take off your rose colored HP glasses.
HP's got a new laptop out!? Wow! I'm really excited, because as you all may or may not know, HP makes some of the HIGHEST QUALITY notebooks on the market! I'm dead serious; see the chart below if you don't believe me. Just ignore the title and pretend that taller bars are better!
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From http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
From http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
The thing is though, isn't in the end the HP Envy just a Macbook Pro wannabe? I mean, the name "Envy" says it all. You don't see us trolling HP forums. I've had an HP laptop in the past. It failed 1 month out of warranty. I'm done with HP.
I really don't understand some of the more hostile sentiments towards the Envy. Frankly, I think it's nice that HP is upping the game in Pc laptops. It's about time. And who better than to imitate than Apple. The envy is a pretty nice machine imho.
With that said, I am enjoying my MBP i7 17 and I feel completely confident that I have the best laptop available when you factor in design, performance, quality, customer service and support. I certainly don't ENVY any other laptop.
With that said, I am enjoying my MBP i7 17 and I feel completely confident that I have the best laptop available when you factor in design, performance, quality, customer service and support. I certainly don't ENVY any other laptop.
I have felt and briefly used the older 13in Envy and thought the build quality to be really good compared to there other models. It was definitely on the hot end in temperature. I am not saying this for argumentative purposes but I can see that you are and DO NOT WANT TO ARGUE ON THE NET. Do not disrespect me. I know this is a Mac based forum and therefore majority of the opinions are slightly biased but I am search for factual information. I have to study for an exam but want to let you know that I like the splice pack and hope for a similarly designed Mac product develops not the lower battery life imagine if you have a MBP with 9 hr battery and u can add maybe .5in tray on the bottom and simply add 10-12+ hours on top of the normal this would work for individuals that are away from a power outlet but need battery life on the go. Also the high failure rates are from the low end products that are produced with cheaper parts and obviously their flagship product will use better parts then there $300 notebooks. I am not supporting either one but just stating the facts so before you go bad mouthing and putting down another member please have some respect. And hope not childish and talk about literature and diction of this post. I wrote this quickly as I have an important exam 2mrw.
Btw I read they have the quad core processor. And MBP 15 has 1440x900 resolution and 100 extra for hi res and 50 more for antiglare. Add that into the equation and your talking about the equivalent two purchasing 2 Envy 14s dude so chill out and relax
Great, so basically you are trying to backpeddle on all of your claims on how great the Envy is over the MacBook Pro. You say you are looking for factual information yet you are the one making lists as to why the Envy is apparently so much better than the MacBook Pro. You like adding 5 pounds to your laptop just to get a decent battery life? Good luck with that terrible design. While HP is busy adding 5 pounds to their laptops just to make it comparable to the MacBook Pro, Apple will have a 20 hour battery that's internal. Those failure rates are of all of their products. Don't make excuses for HP. Plenty of companies make cheap low end products that don't fail yet HP can't get their **** together? And you expect to feel better paying their higher end products with the same shoddy customer support? Give me a break.
Two Envy 14"s? First of all, the only price available on the net is that the 14" will start at $999 and have an i3, i5 and i7 processor. You think that starting price will have an i5? Do some research before you start blabbing on about prices that aren't announced and make no logical sense. Thanks for bringing up the anti-glare by the way. That's just another thing to add to the list that HP doesn't have.
I don't see why you don't even give it a chance. I think the Envy 14 is really interesting. A good screen, very nice features and the a small form factor while easily being able to get a lot of battery life if it is really necessary and all this for a finally very good price. The first Envys were just too expensive.
@Err0xx you campare a 15" beats (Quad Core) with the MBP. Jes this one sucked and the 15" core i5 did too because it had no graphics switching. But at least the i5 ran a lot cooler according to forum posts of owners. Battery life was afaik advertised as 7 h with the slice and around 3h without it so it does not seem too far off unless you say it lasts 3.5h with the slice.
The new Envys are different. They do not have Quad Cores anymore and might have a strong enough cooling system. An HD5650 is also a lot easier to cool than a 5830 with twice as much shaders. Graphic switching works again and if even supports Eyefinity which is quite nice although few will actually use it.
You get according to this HP spokes person 7h with internal (probably 6 cell batt) and twice as much with the slice. That very likely results in better battery life under the same conditions as a MBP even if they are optimistic.
For people that do not want a 13" because it is too small to work on and are not sure if a 15" is the right choice because it is a bit to big. An Envy 14 looks nice. Good Resultion, enough Power too work with a few screens at home (and not those measly 256mb VRAM), battery life when you need it and cheap. That looks like a very good option.
Off course there is the bad HP Support reputation, (but Apple is also not that great if there is no store around like in most countries other than US) and the Quality of the last Envy 15 Quads does not inspire too much confidence and the rushed useless core i5 release. They might have something now and the low price compared to a MBP 15" makes up for some of the HP brand shortcomings.
@Err0xx you campare a 15" beats (Quad Core) with the MBP. Jes this one sucked and the 15" core i5 did too because it had no graphics switching. But at least the i5 ran a lot cooler according to forum posts of owners. Battery life was afaik advertised as 7 h with the slice and around 3h without it so it does not seem too far off unless you say it lasts 3.5h with the slice.
The new Envys are different. They do not have Quad Cores anymore and might have a strong enough cooling system. An HD5650 is also a lot easier to cool than a 5830 with twice as much shaders. Graphic switching works again and if even supports Eyefinity which is quite nice although few will actually use it.
You get according to this HP spokes person 7h with internal (probably 6 cell batt) and twice as much with the slice. That very likely results in better battery life under the same conditions as a MBP even if they are optimistic.
For people that do not want a 13" because it is too small to work on and are not sure if a 15" is the right choice because it is a bit to big. An Envy 14 looks nice. Good Resultion, enough Power too work with a few screens at home (and not those measly 256mb VRAM), battery life when you need it and cheap. That looks like a very good option.
Off course there is the bad HP Support reputation, (but Apple is also not that great if there is no store around like in most countries other than US) and the Quality of the last Envy 15 Quads does not inspire too much confidence and the rushed useless core i5 release. They might have something now and the low price compared to a MBP 15" makes up for some of the HP brand shortcomings.
Hey be like wait it out tell the End of May where more reviews can review the product and a more in depth review arises because as of now we only know specs but not the actual use such as heat, operation, battery life, ect.... Wait it out...I am pretty sure I am going to get the 15 but than the Envy 14 puts me in the middle ground again (damn technology)
The screen res is unfortunately not increased from the previous MBP. I may just keep my old Macbook and use an Envy 14 for everything else I can. I just use a lot of flash, and play games and watch movies, and I know the Envy 14 will be a lot better at those tasks.
This guy is like a Vaio Z for cheap. Just hoping the battery life isn't terrible.
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