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Not backward compatible=not so good. There are still lots of MACs out there that can't run El Cap.
No, but then Apple has always been fairly aggressive in defining the line in the sand in regards to what can or cannot run their latest OS.
 
They aren't wrong.

The (general) Apple consumer doesn't care about specs, never cared (you can say this about all product lines). Their definition of value is shiny aluminum with black fruity logo.

I think you underestimate the average Mac user's knowledge. They might not know everything about computers, but they're not totally stupid or ignorant about such things either. And some Mac users (the tech and pro segment) know them very well and have good reasons for using a Mac (or at least used to) from Final Cut Pro to Logic Pro (the latter is still excellent) or even just the almost total lack of malware and being free from almost constant Windows updates and the like. Or that OS X is based on BSD/Mach/UNIX (It's always been popular with the science crowd).

What does the "average" or "typical" Windows user "know" about computers, after all? Most of the people I know that use Windows (i.e. everyone around me at work, for example) don't know JACK about computers. They buy a Windows machine because it's all they know or they see the price of a Mac and just about crap their pants or worry that they can't run whatever software on a Mac or only have ever used a Windows machine before and are afraid they wont' know what to do on a Mac, etc. etc. (all this without actually trying one, of course or really seeing one in action). Tell them some good reasons to use a Mac and that it CAN run Windows if need be, etc. and they usually listen with interest. But trying to sell them on some overpriced CRAP is not my thing anymore.

The Mac hardware used to be good (if not good value), but this nickel and dime crap hard drive thing takes the cake. They could at LEAST use a Fusion drive with 7200 RPM drives in all the desktops. No no no. The 21.5" model gets a regular 5400 RPM slow as hell hard drive (at least my Mini Server came with TWO 1TB drives that I could RAID 0 for reasonably good performance back in 2012; now SSDs are reaonable enough that a 512GB or 1TB drive should be standard equipment on a high-end top-of-the-line machine. Apple can get them at a big discount and even I can buy a 480GB SSD drive for as little as $139 or a better quality 512GB one for under $300 and a 1TB one for under $650; it would cost Apple a lot less). Apple has a reputation at stake here and they seem to be intent on changing it from "high class" to "high priced CRAP". If you're going to charge a small fortune, at least have the BEST in it, even if it's overpriced. I'm willing to pay MORE for OS X, but not endlessly more. And they don't even offer a single model with a good consumer GPU. Not one. You used to be able to get an entry level Mac Pro for around $2k and at least put a great GPU in it yourself. No longer.
 
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That is incorrect. The larger the capacity, the faster a drive becomes at the same RPM due to larger density. As more data is packed in the same physical space, the less seeking a drive head needs to make to read it.

Disclaimer: I still think Apple are cheapskates for keeping it at 5400. :p

I have yet to see any benchmarks that make this anything other than a negligible difference, nearly a rounding error.

An SSD, or increasing the rotational speed of the drive, are the only ways to reduce access times in a meaningful way.

I doubt Apple chose 5400RPM drives due to being cheapskates, though I could be wrong. I think they did it because it saved them a few watts and slower drives run cooler. I seriously doubt they could be saving any more than $10.

I saw a 21" Retina iMac at the Apple store the other day. Took well over 20 seconds to boot. I stopped counting at 20. The 27", even with the much smaller 24GB SSD as part of the fusion drive, booted in maybe 7.
 
The lightning port on the bottom of the mouse is ridiculous..

Yes u do have the fast charge for 9 hours which kind of makes up for the in-ability to use it while charging. its only 9 hours, not 1 month, so ur gonna be plugging that cable in more often, and while u'r play dominoes while waiting for the mouse to fully charge so u can use it one full month instead of just 9 hours... not even a full day.

I would have felt better if the lightening port was either side, on the back, or on the front.

Imagine if Apple says "you cannot use your phone while your charging" Fast charge is always a good way to get out of everything, but if its doesn't last the same time-frame, it will be useless since u will just be plugging it in more often anyway to charge.. Inconvenient.

No, but then Apple has always been fairly aggressive in defining the line in the sand in regards to what can or cannot run their latest OS.

http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/190744/which-macs-are-compatible-with-os-x-10-11-el-capitan

Not really official though. But its a good guess. Only true way is to ask Apple. I don't think Apple has any page which is more close related.
 
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Lots that can't?
I doubt there are lots of people using a Mac old enough to not run El Capitan.
But there are many people who are not upgrading yet because their applications are not (yet) compatible with El Capitan and some will never be. It shouldn't be too difficult to backport some changes to Yosemite and have a larger market for these new products. Also many corporate clients won't jump to El Capitan directly. Neither is Apple offering the previous models any longer, so if you need a wireless keyboard/mouse/trackpad now, you either have to upgrade to El Capitan or buy it from a different company (not much choice there esp. if you don't want Logitech).

Update: found the previous :apple: Magic Keyboard for a reduced price (only EUR 49,-) :)
 
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But there are many people who are not upgrading yet because their applications are not (yet) compatible with El Capitan and some will never be.
I think that El Cap is mostly a point upgrade of Yosemite, the list of incompatible apps is smaller then it has been for previous applications. While their are changes like rootless, I think overall the upgrade to El Cap is smoother since its mostly a bug fix/performance upgrade to Yosemite.


Also many corporate clients won't jump to El Capitan directly.
My organization has a number of macs, and I will say they tend to upgrade those a heck of a lot quicker then the PCs. In fact I'd say that with a few months most of the Macs are on the latest OS. In contrast the PCs are only on windows 7 and there's no impending plans to adopt windows 10 at the moment.
 
The lightning port on the bottom of the mouse is ridiculous..

I would have felt better if the lightening port was either side, on the back, or on the front.

The front makes the most sense. That's where wired mouses are connected, after all and thus you could leave it plugged in as if it were a wired mouse and keep using it. I'd fire whomever designed this POS. Actually, it's more like I never would have let the design get to that stage in the first place. I'd have made them change it so the wire is on the front.
 
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But there are many people who are not upgrading yet because their applications are not (yet) compatible with El Capitan and some will never be. It shouldn't be too difficult to backport some changes to Yosemite and have a larger market for these new products. Also many corporate clients won't jump to El Capitan directly. Neither is Apple offering the previous models any longer, so if you need a wireless keyboard/mouse/trackpad now, you either have to upgrade to El Capitan or buy it from a different company (not much choice there esp. if you don't want Logitech).

Update: found the previous :apple: Magic Keyboard for a reduced price (only EUR 49,-) :)

What's compatible with Yosemite and not El Capitan?
 
I just hope the battery will last longer than 6 months. Logitech is able to go for a year or longer.
 
Many audio products/plugins (see https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-8801)
Older Adobe Creative Suite software (which still ran fine on Yosemite)
Various Microsoft office products
Capture One 8
...
Problems are obviously getting less as updates are being released and soon 10.11.1 should be available.

What blows my mind is, these companies have many months to make their products work with the new OS during the beta period, yet they completely fail to and the products end up breaking when people upgrade.

People need to stop supporting companies who don't properly keep up with the platform their products run on. This is common business sense; for the money people pay for these tools they should get proper support.

End rant.
 
Why, on earth, would these machines come standard with a 5,400 RPM hard drive? That essentially mandates an upgrade to a Fusion drive, which now is limited to only 24GB SSD unless you go up to the 2TB Fusion Drive. It seems like a lot of upgrading just to get some decent speed performance.

Answer is simple. Bigger profit is the continue to use old tech and people continue to buy them.
 
Answer is simple. Bigger profit is the continue to use old tech and people continue to buy them.

The high prices just make me put off upgrading. Sure, I'll pay more for the machine but that just means Apple gets money from me less often.

Still rocking my 2012 iMac which should be good for another year or two.
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Why, on earth, would these machines come standard with a 5,400 RPM hard drive? That essentially mandates an upgrade to a Fusion drive, which now is limited to only 24GB SSD unless you go up to the 2TB Fusion Drive. It seems like a lot of upgrading just to get some decent speed performance.

Another alternative a lot of people are taking is to buy the machine with the HDD, and add on a Thunderbolt SSD. The combined price is far lower than an iMac with the same sized SSD built in, and it's just as fast.
 
I have no idea how people use the magic mouse. It is the least ergonomic thing I have held.

Waste of money for me. I bought one cause it looked cool and figured I needed a wireless mouse.

Never ever ever end up using it. it's ergonomic stink. it hurts the hand to use. it's also got terrible feet making its ability to move around on surfaces quite resistive instead of "gliding".

Ultimately, I never use it. I use the cheapo $10 wireless with it's own dongle more I have, because it's just more comfortable to uise
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To each his own, but I have to admit I'm always surprised to see that. The Magic Mouse is the best mouse I've ever used. All the normal functions of a two-button mouse, plus scrolling in all directions, swiping, Mission Control access... I guess for for some people, it's simply an uncomfortable shape?

The functionality is great. These are all bonuses to the mouse that you don't get in other 2 button + wheel mice.

But when the mouse physically hurts to use for extended periods of time due to the lack of ergononics, combined with as I mentioned above, really terrible "glide" factor over most surfaces, its clearly a "form over function" implementation.
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That is incorrect. The larger the capacity, the faster a drive becomes at the same RPM due to larger density. As more data is packed in the same physical space, the less seeking a drive head needs to make to read it.

Disclaimer: I still think Apple are cheapskates for keeping it at 5400. :p

to further nitpick (cause its fun).

The type of data read / write matters immensely. If you're doing something with lots of tiny little writes/reads. your performance is goign to take significant hit the slower the drive spins.

Databases for example, would be absolutely painful on 5400RPM drives. They're bad enough on 7200 RPM drives. Databases are "death by a thousand cuts". it's 4k random read /writes. Waiting of the head to move and the spindle to reach the proper location is a serious, and dramatic performance impact. There are many things we do on computers, day to day that also do these tiny read/writes, and not major, sustained transfers.
 
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