New iMac G5 Announced

[jsw]

...PCI slots I can do with the lost but the graphic card is going to kill sells of this computer.

Yeah, and the $250 price was going to kill sales of the iPod mini. 🙄 This thing's going to fly off the shelves.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

only problem is:
1) graphics card - gaming should one of the priorities of this computer, I think the card's specs are below market demand. ATI 96/9700 should be more like it.
2) RAM - come on!! I'd use 256MB just idling!!
3) bus speed - this could slow things down, only tests will tell. HOWEVER this may be good for the heat factor.
4) Superdrive - I don't understand why they put a 4X drive in there - 8X is pretty much standard now - my advice - get the combo drive and get an external burner - better off in the long run.
Other than that it's expected... nice to see they can fit a G5 in that small space!! At least there's PLENTY of storage!
That G5 Powerbook is looking alot healthier.........but i think it depends on how the iMac goes first.

On #1, that is open to much debate. More is always better. At least it should have been a BTO.

On # 2, I totally agree. Despite what some may say about OSX, consumers look for 512mb RAM.

Your other two points can be debated till the cows come home, and no one will ever agree.

 

[FightTheFuture]

design and aluminum displays

i had to install all of the new aluminum 23" displays for the after effects guys at work. just staring at them made me green with envy. the stand is mind-boggling and it opened up so much desk real estate for them to work. eventually they are just floating and the work on screen are all that matter.

hopefully the imac G5 will fold into that. simplify, minimize, consolidate. everything is right there and you can get your work done seamlessly. i can see this being a big hit. but i thought the imac G4 would be too.

btw. this has got to be the most pages i've ever seen on a topic in here before.

 

[Trekkie]

Ok I'm at page 6 and I'm tired of responding. The bitching and moaning about the 64MB of video ram...good night people.

last time I checked video ram did one thing, allow you to display more and more resolution with more and more colors per pixel.

on the 17 I get a max resolution of 1440x900 and on the 20 I get 1680x1050 in 16:10 mode.

doing a quick google on 5200 FX 64MB I get a max resolution of 2048x1536 at 32bpp.

So with the video on the FX card the VRAM in it is just fine.

Now I'm not going to argue on the performance side, haven't seen a 5200 in action but my human eye won't notice much over 24 fps.

And if you have macrumors newbie under your name and post something about how ugly it is, stupid, expensive, or whatever you're nothing but a troll in my book 😉

 

[Flying Llama]

I'm actually a little happy that the minimum ram is 256. Apple RAM is way overpriced. I can get much cheaper ram at macsolutions. If the minimum RAM was 512, they would have raised the price a lot. Instead, I can save! 😱 😀 😎

 

[alexf]

The imac has been $1300 and "all-in-one 'cute'" since 1998, but doesn't sell like it used to. Reason: cute only goes so far in covering up a price/performance gap.

The gap didn't really exist in 1998. It's yawning huge now. Look what $1000 will buy you in the PC world now:

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MVGSBG/article.php/3394901

If you don't feel like reading it, you can get put together a complete Athlon 64 3000+ or P4 2.8E system with 512 MB RAM, Radeon 9800 128MB, 80 gig HD, combo drive, 19" flat CRT, 5.1 speakers, mouse, keyboard, etc for $1000. Replace the $185 19" CRT with a 17" LCD for $400 and you're still under the lowest of the low-end imac.

Such a system will absolutely spank any Mac short of a Dual 2 GHz G5, up to and including this new imac. Total performance humiliation. Yes, the PC will be big and ugly and run windows or linux. It'll also be expandable and fast.

Look, I hate to rag on Apple - I'm a huge MacOS fan and long-time Mac owner. I just wouldn't feel the need to trash Apple if they'd stop crippling their consumer hardware. I simply feel that a 64 MB GeForce 5200FX has no place in a premium computer. I'd be willing to overlook it in the $1300 imac if the $1500 and $1900 versions came with something better - but they don't.

Frankly, I'd also be happier with the guts of the 1.6 GHz G5 imac in a headless case with an agp slot for $1000. I don't need another monitor.

-vga4life

OK, I do see your point, and I'm even willing to admit that it's a good one.

Yet I still don't see any problem with having the 5200 in the iMacs, as this graphics card is probably sufficient for what 90% of all iMac owners will use it for within the next couple of years (although an option to upgrade on the high end model would be appropriate).

Now if we could just get the 5200 out of the PowerMacs - that is a different story...

 

[zwida]

for all of you wondering if the iMac is detachable to have it as a wall mount. here is your answer.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...gIPGZxyr2G4E6Kmw1G8t9DM/9.3.0.6.10.3.3.1.15.0

Glorious. And I think that seals the deal for me.

Now if I could just hide the laptop I'm typing on from my wife... 😀

 

[alexf]

I'm actually a little happy that the minimum ram is 256. Apple RAM is way overpriced. I can get much cheaper ram at macsolutions. If the minimum RAM was 512, they would have raised the price a lot. Instead, I can save! 😱 😀 😎

Yes, I even think that Apple should give customers the option of buying computers with no memory.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I think I preferred the fake picture that had been circulating around the net. I'm going to miss the arm. Maybe I can snag a deeply discounted old model.

There were a couple of renderings that I thought made much more sense....

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Everybody makes one of these, everybody! Granted the new iMac G5 looks better than the rest. I would have to agrree with some comments, Yes the video card is less than adequate, minimal RAM, small hard drive. Here is a pict of the simillar product from Gateway, but it has 120gb hd, 128mb video, 512 ram, built in tivo, and sells for 500$ less

And in many ways that is where the voices are coming from. The "old" iMac was able to hold it's own against the the others. This one seems to be more of the same to many. A bit better, but yards ahead, no....

 

[bar italia]

Yet I still don't see any problem with having the 5200 in the iMacs, as this graphics card is probably sufficient for what 90% of all iMac owners will use it for within the next couple of years...

Does your 90% figure include the people who will refuse to an iMac because of the sub-par video card?

It's the same argument people use when defending the 5200 -- "It's not a big deal because the iMac isn't for gaming". The reason the iMac isn't for gaming is because of the lousy card.

And, if the iMac isn't meant for gaming, what excuse does Apple have for telling potential customers the following (from apple.com):

Extreme Graphics

The sizzling graphics processor and next-generation high-bandwidth architecture kicks 3D games and graphics into high gear, with three times the frame rate as the previous iMac in Unreal Tournament 2004. NVIDIA graphics provides hardware transform and lighting (T&L), per-pixel shading and drop-dead gorgeous effects at high resolutions. All models deliver over a billion textured pixels per second and an advanced Live FX engine engineered to generate the most lifelike characters. With Quartz Extreme, the graphics processors take over transform and lighting calculation functions from the CPU, freeing the G5 processor to perform essential system tasks faster than ever before.

Are you kidding? "with three times the frame rate as the previous iMac"?

3 x **** still equals ****.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

There are a few things I don't like.

1. The position of the auxiliary connections Firewire, USB et all, this is going to be a drag and the weight f the cables look as thought they may cause the screen to change position, in any event it is an elegant solution.

2. I think it is a bad choice to provide a 4x superdrive, 8 X and dual layer compatible should have been on the list.

3. The loss of horizontal rotation, this was just so useful and was a wonderful feature of the old iMac.

4. The NV5200 video card, I expected this card to be used and i don't suppose Apple could have included any video cards that would make some people happy in this forum. But the top of the range model is supposed to be aimed at gamers and a BTO choice of advanced card should have been on the list... maybe next time.

5. I am not sure that they needed to throttle back on the FSB a 3:1 multiplier was not necessary. PM's all have dual processors so I can't believe that they needed to do this. (I wonder if it is hackable?)

Clearly, Apple now has a roadmap, we have seen new machines like this come out to soak up initial demand. Then after a few months when the initial demand has slowed, the specifications improve.

I am really glad to see that the HDD is available in 250GB, hooray.

The lack of FW800 is one big down fall IMO

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm not a gamer so the graphics card matters very little, however I was ready to buy the 20" iMac until I saw that it only has a 4x DVDr. Sure I could add an external drive down the road, but I shouldn't have to (and it'd only be USB2 not FW800). With 16x DVDr and 4-8x DL DVDR (dual-layer) already out - just doesn't seem like they pay attention to the details too much. Weak. And you have to ADD Airport and Bluetooth. Weak.

Waiting for Rev. B and C... 🙄

John
-----------------------------
iBook G3 600, iMac G3 400
3 Tivos, 20GB iPod,
LA-area Emmy

Same here, and it it will probably come with Tiger at that point.....

 

[Mechcozmo]

Hey, its better than 32. Now, yes I'd like to see 128MB. But I've got a PowerBook and that 64MB of graphics card memory holds its own against a lot of other computers. Most other laptops, BTW, use shared memory (sharing main memory and processor time). The iMac G5 is like a big laptop, sort of. It is a small computer, and laptop technology was used in its making I bet.

 

[takao]

And in many ways that is where the voices are coming from. The "old" iMac was able to hold it's own against the the others. This one seems to be more of the same to many. A bit better, but yards ahead, no....

sadly .. i think that sums it up
i guess it will end like that:

those who already owned macs before will buy them
those who are on the x86 side and interested in macs will wait for a better one (most of them are enthusiasts and not joe average)
and those on the x86 side who aren't interested haven't even noticed that apple released something new

at least it will happen like this over here....

but at least there is hope with that good introduction video which have been linked in an other thread... i hope they show that on TV ...at least in the US

 

[Samiam1]

Blah Blah Blah

People buy macs for 5 simple reasons:

Simplicity
Elegance
Stlye
Ease of use
Power

People like me are willing to pay a premium for these qualities. I have friends with PCs that aren't working well most of the time. The one I use at work is in the service dept as I type. I have had my imac g3 for 3 years now and HAVE NEVER HAD A CRASH OR ANY OTHER PROBLEM. Wow.. I know no PC user who can say the same.

This is a consumer machine. Apple has very specific demographics.
My point is that this new mac is for people like me. It is beautifully simple, elegant and does the job supremely well. Now I know there are a lot of gamers here, but you are not Apple's target demographic. 95% of people want to be able to run office, make an imovie or two, store their digital music/photos, read email and surf the porn (I mean NET lol 🙂 Look at all their marketing for the last 5 years - few if any references to gaming. The graphics card is good enough for joe consumer. Now if you aren't Joe consumer, buy a power mac and blow them all away.

I am buying one of these imacs cause I think they are beautiful simple and elegant and my g3 after 3 years and running OSX is getting a little slow.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Nice ports 😀
So I'm guessing this will keep most of your external devices on the right side of the desk, or behind the LCD?

I personally like to see some sort of dock device. On my PB, I am tired of unplugging the cords. Maybe something from HP"

http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/...l&page=home&site=main&product_code=DL516A#ABA

Would be nice for Apple....

 

[slughead]

last time I checked video ram did one thing, allow you to display more and more resolution with more and more colors per pixel.

Yeah, and hold more data in there at a time. For instance, when you load a game, the textures are kept sometimes in the VRam, the more VRAM you have, the more textures you can hold there at one time, and the more detailed they can be.

In non-gaming, Apple has tried to make it abundantly clear that video RAM and performance will increase the overall functionality of even non-gaming applications. For instance, you saw that Core Audio/Video demo of tiger? It may have seemed boring UNLESS you factor in that ALL the processing power was coming from the GPU!! Soon, rendering effects in iMovie and whatnot will additionally if not exclusively use the GPU.

on the 17 I get a max resolution of 1440x900 and on the 20 I get 1680x1050 in 16:10 mode.

doing a quick google on 5200 FX 64MB I get a max resolution of 2048x1536 at 32bpp.

So with the video on the FX card the VRAM in it is just fine.

Yeah, fine to just simply RUN that resolution. If you want to use the power after that to do something else, you're up a creek!

Now I'm not going to argue on the performance side, haven't seen a 5200 in action but my human eye won't notice much over 24 fps.

Well, look who's the scientist all of a sudden.

Since you know so much about the human eye, perhaps you can tell me how you can see a flashbulb--since it would almost definitely happen between "frames".

The answer is you can "see" sort of in between frames. If you were running a game at 24 FPS.. you'd notice. 30FPS.. you'd notice. I actually spotted the difference between 100 and 120FPS simply because the eye can't decipher the whole frame, but it can see the "chunks".

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

sounds like you don't have any pci cards you need to install in your mac. i do. a few of them. that's why i got the g5 dual 2.5... pci cards. not unusual in audio/video work.

To be honest there are many of us that don't need PCI slots. I have had my PB 12" since Dec. of last year. NEVER lamented the lack of slots.

 

[Flowbee]

Your new Audi supports 5 gears, but only comes with 2. Need more, just add them yourself? Those two gears will get the average user from A to B, but those pro drivers that want to take "highways" and such, you're on your own... or maybe you should have bought a Ford with all gears out of the box.

Worst. Analogy. Ever. 😕

 

[takao]

People buy macs for 5 simple reasons:

Simplicity
Elegance
Stlye
Ease of use
Power

some might argue that reason 1 and 4 are the same and that reason 2 and 3 sound similiar as well 😉

SCNR

People like me are willing to pay a premium for these qualities. I have friends with PCs that aren't working well most of the time. The one I use at work is in the service dept as I type. I have had my imac g3 for 3 years now and HAVE NEVER HAD A CRASH OR ANY OTHER PROBLEM. Wow.. I know no PC user who can say the same.

me neither (me included)...but i don't know a mac user (outside of this forum) either...
but i can say i had more problems and reinstalls with linux(3-4) than with windows(0) in the last 2 years...

This is a consumer machine. Apple has very specific demographics.
My point is that this new mac is for people like me. It is beautifully simple, elegant and does the job supremely well. Now I know there are a lot of gamers here, but you are not Apple's target demographic. 95% of people want to be able to run office, make an imovie or two, store their digital music/photos, read email and surf the porn (I mean NET lol 🙂 Look at all their marketing for the last 5 years - few if any references to gaming. The graphics card is good enough for joe consumer. Now if you aren't Joe consumer, buy a power mac and blow them all away.

you forgot the kids/teenagers.... how many people in this 95% group have kids who want to game ?
i was the one deciding what PC to buy for the family, when i was 15... because i was the one who would use the PC the most...

I am buying one of these imacs cause I think they are beautiful simple and elegant and my g3 after 3 years and running OSX is getting a little slow.

i'm going to wait 'till 2005 for any updates (even if apple would release a head less less than 1000$ pc tommorow)

 

[joeboy_45101]

I love this new iMac. My only complaint is that the graphics card totally sucks. Other than that this is freakin' great. I didn't think they could ever outdo the iMac G4, shows how much I know. I can't wait to try one of these out at the AppleStore.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Every PC maker lists ALL ports in the specs, whether a vital peripheral (mouse, display) uses them up or not. So Apple listing 5 USB ports is fair.



Even a G4 will 🙂



Lots of those exist for your VESA-standard iMac 🙂 Such as:
http://www.2iq.co.uk/prodpage.asp?ProdID=7
http://ergonomics.comrac.co.uk/main.asp?pid=20

I bet you can get a small quick-release unit that fits BETWEEN the unit and any VESA mount, too. And I bet someone soon makes one to let you use the iMac's own foot the same way.

(You'll find the Apple iMac VESA bracket under Accessories.)



Different. Everything will affect sound--the stuff on your desk, what it's made of, or the choice to wall mount. If you want the best sound, you'll always want external speakers or a full stereo system. Even surround sound: the iMac outputs 5.1 digital optical audio.

To the average person, VESA offers many opportunitinities
......

 

[WebbDogg]

Probably a stupid question but does the mini-vga output allow you to use a second screen or is it just a clone of the main screen?

My G5 has double outputs and I love having side by side monitors.

Thanks guys!

 

[dswoodley]

i can't believe all the complaining about the graphics card. Did any of you actually think Apple never consiidered this? Jesus Christ! Do you have any clue what sort of research goes into launching a product that was in RD over a freakin year! Most people who buy this machine have no freakin use for a 128 card!! i guarantee it!! this is a desktop for people who want to use Word, Internet and listen to Music (64mb gpu in fact is overkill for this). it is for highs school kids who can't be trusted with a $3000 PM!!! Let me be clear - it is not a gd gaming machine, it isn't suppose to be close in performance to one, it will never be one!! There will never be a high end graphic card in a mac! (If you haven't learned this after six bloody years of the machines, maybe you never will) Apple has no incentive to put a more expensive card into the gd machine! Would you people either get over it or get a Powermac???