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New iMacs announced
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Here's my dilemna.
We just bought the 20 inch not more than a couple weeks ago and can return it for an exchange for the new one, but some of the software we use (3D app and a few others) won't work with Tiger, namely the new QuickTime 7 (yep, other users of the 3D app had it break in Panther when they upgraded to QT7 too), and being on a production deadline for a game (the newer card and processor would be great!), I'd hate to lose the abililty to get the work done because we had to have a faster computer. So the big question is, does anyone know if the new 2.0 will run under Panther too (on a different partition so we can keep Tiger for other apps until our 3D app is fixed)?
Thanks!
Greg
We just bought the 20 inch not more than a couple weeks ago and can return it for an exchange for the new one, but some of the software we use (3D app and a few others) won't work with Tiger, namely the new QuickTime 7 (yep, other users of the 3D app had it break in Panther when they upgraded to QT7 too), and being on a production deadline for a game (the newer card and processor would be great!), I'd hate to lose the abililty to get the work done because we had to have a faster computer. So the big question is, does anyone know if the new 2.0 will run under Panther too (on a different partition so we can keep Tiger for other apps until our 3D app is fixed)?
Thanks!
Greg
SteveC said:Thank you for answering that so very appropriately.(I'm being serious, by the way, not sarcastic.)
An even more complete answer would be: How do they compare? There's no comparison. The new iMac G5 will be a joy to own and a Windows PC would be a headache and a half.
I think Windows should start coming bundled with 1000mg ibuprofen bottles for use everytime a Windows user gets a new virus or illegal operation.
HAHA. M$ SUXORZ. HAHA. M$.
JordanNZ said:
The one advantage of the someone like Dell's volume is that they can offer multiple spec's for every configuration....if you don't want a certain video card, order the more expensive one, or order a slightly more expensive model. Not as easy when you have a smaller volume and are moving product from overseas. With Dell's multitude of models and configurations most people don't even know what they're buying. Ignorance is bliss. With Apple, people are very aware of what's being offered.
I wonder what would happen it Apple offered two video card options. I know...we'd all bitch about the upgrade cost being too much compared to that offered for the same card by PC mfgrs.
Stop
Personally knowing the owner of ATI, i realize that their cards cannot compare so much with that of Nvdia. Nvdia has better tech.. people constantly are complaining and complaining.. GO PLAY GAMES ON A PC.. you can get the card you want. ATI is expanding its industry elsewhere.. ie games are not profitable.
OKAY.. now the 9600 is old technology, but Mac is trying to make money. The PC industry is not doing so well.. markup on products suck! Mac can cheap out on these cards cause its not a live or die factor.. Apple knows that RIGHT NOW, games are not meant for the Imac system.. and if you really wanna play games go get a PM or a PC (this is the reason why people would buy a 1.8ghz PM.. its expandable).
If you continue to complain.. ya it doesnt serve much purpose. Just put yourself in the eyes of an Apple exec; hmm.. who am i selling these Imac's to?
cheers,
ini
Personally knowing the owner of ATI, i realize that their cards cannot compare so much with that of Nvdia. Nvdia has better tech.. people constantly are complaining and complaining.. GO PLAY GAMES ON A PC.. you can get the card you want. ATI is expanding its industry elsewhere.. ie games are not profitable.
OKAY.. now the 9600 is old technology, but Mac is trying to make money. The PC industry is not doing so well.. markup on products suck! Mac can cheap out on these cards cause its not a live or die factor.. Apple knows that RIGHT NOW, games are not meant for the Imac system.. and if you really wanna play games go get a PM or a PC (this is the reason why people would buy a 1.8ghz PM.. its expandable).
If you continue to complain.. ya it doesnt serve much purpose. Just put yourself in the eyes of an Apple exec; hmm.. who am i selling these Imac's to?
cheers,
ini
LOL
That's amusing, since ATI is a publicly traded company which is owned by the thousands of shareholders....
m4r71n1 said:
That's amusing, since ATI is a publicly traded company which is owned by the thousands of shareholders....
Graphics Cards
I think the 9600 is perfect for about 96% of would be imac owners, who don't play the frame rate game with the PC geeks. People have written very passionately about the graphics card here, but I think you are missing the demographic somewhat, I'd suggest that if you a mac owner, and like to play games you'd own a playstation, xbox or a game cube. Most games play better on such systems in that they give you a better gaming experience. The 9600 is perfect to play the types of games you are likely to on a desktop like Warcraft etc.
I have just ordered this iMac and am looking forward to some creative years to come as I push out songs, movies and DVD's, do my day job as a Graphic Designer and enjoy the wonder that is OS X10.4. Games are far down the list but I know when I do have an inkling this card will deliver a playable game - I'm not one to count my frame rates and don't mind turning down the graphics + I own a Halo box -otherwise known as an X-box
I would not have paid more for a better graphics card, and maybe Apple was thinking just that, that if only 4% of buyers were going to upgrade the card then maybe the cost was too great to justify the effort.
Still, I'd like Apple to release a hugely beefed up gaming imac to cover all areas of interest for people- maybe when the CELL processors arrive and we are not dependent on graphic card manufacturers.
Speaking of creative endeavors, I'd love everyone to hear a song I wrote & recorded on my mac (demoed in garageband recorded with pro tools) for my brothers wedding with my little cousins (I'm 22, they are about 15 and 12) - you can even vote for it (which would be much appreciated) http://soundcheck.ninemsn.com.au/showentry.jsp?fvEntry=597
as a side note my brother is creating his wedding video in Japan where he lives now, on his imac - my girlfriends sister just paid an enormous amount to have a wedding video made for her because she doesn't know that it is possible to do it on your own!. THIS is what the mac is for me, creation unhindered, possibilities endless all with a pretty GUI
I think the 9600 is perfect for about 96% of would be imac owners, who don't play the frame rate game with the PC geeks. People have written very passionately about the graphics card here, but I think you are missing the demographic somewhat, I'd suggest that if you a mac owner, and like to play games you'd own a playstation, xbox or a game cube. Most games play better on such systems in that they give you a better gaming experience. The 9600 is perfect to play the types of games you are likely to on a desktop like Warcraft etc.
I have just ordered this iMac and am looking forward to some creative years to come as I push out songs, movies and DVD's, do my day job as a Graphic Designer and enjoy the wonder that is OS X10.4. Games are far down the list but I know when I do have an inkling this card will deliver a playable game - I'm not one to count my frame rates and don't mind turning down the graphics + I own a Halo box -otherwise known as an X-box
I would not have paid more for a better graphics card, and maybe Apple was thinking just that, that if only 4% of buyers were going to upgrade the card then maybe the cost was too great to justify the effort.
Still, I'd like Apple to release a hugely beefed up gaming imac to cover all areas of interest for people- maybe when the CELL processors arrive and we are not dependent on graphic card manufacturers.
Speaking of creative endeavors, I'd love everyone to hear a song I wrote & recorded on my mac (demoed in garageband recorded with pro tools) for my brothers wedding with my little cousins (I'm 22, they are about 15 and 12) - you can even vote for it (which would be much appreciated) http://soundcheck.ninemsn.com.au/showentry.jsp?fvEntry=597
as a side note my brother is creating his wedding video in Japan where he lives now, on his imac - my girlfriends sister just paid an enormous amount to have a wedding video made for her because she doesn't know that it is possible to do it on your own!. THIS is what the mac is for me, creation unhindered, possibilities endless all with a pretty GUI
AidenShaw said:
I don't know...at first the iMac's chin bugged me too, but now when I see what it would look like without it...I kind of like it. Without it, the iMac looks more like the boring old 19" LCD that I use now with my PC (new iMac is on the way!).
I also wonder, and this is pure speculation, if there is some reason why the chin is actually necessary- perhaps the power supply and LCD can't be directly adjacent to each other (maybe unless there is some better shielding or something). I dunno, just a thought.
EDIT: Another, probably more likely reason for the chin is that Apple makes these widescreens anyway, so it's just cheaper for them to use them- and someone wisely decided that the iMac would be better as a square shape with a chin than a wide, rectangular shape with big white ears.
make it a brick
Put the power supply in a brick like the Cube. Get the heat, weight and bulk of the power supply out of the head unit - make the head smaller, lighter, cooler (and have room for better speakers).
I wonder if the design was
a. give it a big blank white space like the iPod to grab the "halo"
or
b. OMG, what a big ugly blank white space - wait, let's say that it looks like an iPod
____________
How could a 20% larger screen in the same size frame be a bad thing?
admanimal said:
Put the power supply in a brick like the Cube. Get the heat, weight and bulk of the power supply out of the head unit - make the head smaller, lighter, cooler (and have room for better speakers).
I wonder if the design was
a. give it a big blank white space like the iPod to grab the "halo"
or
b. OMG, what a big ugly blank white space - wait, let's say that it looks like an iPod
____________
How could a 20% larger screen in the same size frame be a bad thing?
AidenShaw said:
Haha...good question.
I agree that the power supply would just as well have been in a seperate brick. I know Apple likes to brag about the lack of one, but does anyone really care that much? I mean the fact that it's an all-in-one means you're going to have one less brick than you would with a normal computer setup (CPU and monitor) anyway. And like you said, it would cool the system quite a bit, perhaps allowing for faster (i.e. hotter) CPUs and GPUs, etc.
1. Someone said a graphics card any faster than the 9600 would have exceeded the thermal budget of the iMac's ventilation system.Trout74 said:
2. Someone else said that 96% of iMac owners are not game players or do not consider game play important.
3. Someone else said games should be played on PCs or PMs because iMacs are not designed for game play. Further, we should put ourselves in the shoes of an Apple executive and define the audience for whom these iMacs are intended. Finally, it does not serve any purpose to complain.
Item 1 is merely conjecture. If Apple can replace the nVidia fx5200 with a 9600 that operates about 50% faster, increase bus speed to 667 MHz, and raise the top end iMac's clock speed by 200 MHz from 1.8 to 2.0 GHz, and still maintain the unit's thermal budget, what makes us think that the 9600 represents the pinnacle of thermal load?
Item 2 is also conjecture. What came first, the chicken or the egg? If an iMac is capable of playing games with aplomb, people will play games on it with aplomb. Build it and they will come. The 9600 is already 2 years old. If you purchase a new iMac today, how long do you intend to use it? An average actual lifespan might be 4 years. With new graphics cards being introduced every 6 months (and prices being dropped accordingly), the 9600 is already 4 generations behind. Keep your iMac for 2 years and the 9600 will be 8 generations behind. Graphics cards are perhaps the most dynamic product segment in the computer industry. They are increasingly offloading tasks from the main CPU even for non-3D gaming activities such as rendering 2D screen effects and windows. With a graphics-intensive OS such as Tiger, a fast GPU becomes increasingly important. We noticed the improvement in screen rendering made possible simply by installing Tiger on a Mac containing a Quartz Extreme-compatible GPU. A faster GPU can further improve performance of everyday screen rendering effects, iPhoto slide shows, image processing/photo enhancement filters, and so on.
3. It does serve a purpose to complain. Progress is rarely achieved without dissatisfaction with the status quo or dissatisfaction with unreasonable compromises. A captive (2-year old underpowered) graphics card in a 2.0 GHz iMac with a 20-inch LCD seems unreasonable.
The original high-end iMac (spherical base) retailed for $2199. Today's high-end iMac is much more capable and cheaper by $400 (at $1799). Would I pay 37 dollars more for an iMac that had a mid-range graphics card by today's standards? You bet.
But the thing that preceded the chicken was just a different type of chicken. So which came first, a "chicken" or the egg?barneygumble said:
Since we're off topic, let me recommend a good book on current evolutionary thinking:
Sudden Origins: Fossils, Genes, and the Emergence of Species by Jeffrey H. Schwartz. Did the eye, for example, evolve gradually or did it appear as a more-or-less fully formed structure? Why are there no continuous gradual mutations in the fossil record? Can a species have an intermediate form of the eye rather than the whole eye? Homeobox Genes (or Hox Genes) and accumulated but unexpressed mutations provide part of the answer. Fascinating topic.
AUSSIE IMAC BUYERS!
Listen up all Aussie Imac Buyers - I purchased my imac on Tuesday night (2ghz 20in 512RAM, with b/t keyboard and mouse) and was a little annoyed when I saw that Streetwise.com.au's price was $70 cheaper! + their ram upgrade is only $99 not $185 like on the Apple store. So I got Apple to price match! Only bad point was that I had to cancel my order and go to the back of the queue, BUT I did just managed to double my ram for $12 more than my original order!
Also of note the guy at the apple store said the best price he was authorized to do was $2968 for a $3006 purchase. Interesting that there is room to budge.
Listen up all Aussie Imac Buyers - I purchased my imac on Tuesday night (2ghz 20in 512RAM, with b/t keyboard and mouse) and was a little annoyed when I saw that Streetwise.com.au's price was $70 cheaper! + their ram upgrade is only $99 not $185 like on the Apple store. So I got Apple to price match! Only bad point was that I had to cancel my order and go to the back of the queue, BUT I did just managed to double my ram for $12 more than my original order!
Also of note the guy at the apple store said the best price he was authorized to do was $2968 for a $3006 purchase. Interesting that there is room to budge.
I think it´s a great upgreade!!
I go away to the summer house for 3 days and look what happend!
The iMac is too tempting now.
i planned to get the 17, but wth the price drop on the 20...
Difficult.
I go away to the summer house for 3 days and look what happend!
The iMac is too tempting now.
i planned to get the 17, but wth the price drop on the 20...
Difficult.
You people are a bunch of cry babies , the Radeon 9600 is a very decent videocard for the money and price range. It's excellent at video accleration , and one of the very few AGP cards that have Mpeg hardware assist. It does over 1.3 Giga pixel's sec and 164/M Polygons sec per second those are better specs then the Geforce 3 inside every Xbox.
I have this card in my Athon XP PC and I run HL2 at 800x600 over 30FPS, Doom 3 is the only game that I have to lower to 640x480. Doom 3 is a resource hog and thats why more and more companies will be using the HL2 and Unreal 3 engines instead.
no one here needs a radeon 9800 pro just to play with expose or core image. this card will be more then fine. and comparing a FX 5200 ultra to even a plain 9600 is just stupid as the 5200 Ultra is nothing more then an overclocked FX 5200. The the 9600 pumps out double the triangles as the 5200 Ultra it's like 82M vs.164M polygons sec. Jut be happy Apple finally put in a decent card on the iMac. At least u didn't get stuck with a 32MB Geforce 2 MX like i did back in the day.
how many times we have to tell you slow people macs are not for games , and macs will always suck at games. Want to play games buy a PC or buy an Xbox.
I have this card in my Athon XP PC and I run HL2 at 800x600 over 30FPS, Doom 3 is the only game that I have to lower to 640x480. Doom 3 is a resource hog and thats why more and more companies will be using the HL2 and Unreal 3 engines instead.
no one here needs a radeon 9800 pro just to play with expose or core image. this card will be more then fine. and comparing a FX 5200 ultra to even a plain 9600 is just stupid as the 5200 Ultra is nothing more then an overclocked FX 5200. The the 9600 pumps out double the triangles as the 5200 Ultra it's like 82M vs.164M polygons sec. Jut be happy Apple finally put in a decent card on the iMac. At least u didn't get stuck with a 32MB Geforce 2 MX like i did back in the day.
how many times we have to tell you slow people macs are not for games , and macs will always suck at games. Want to play games buy a PC or buy an Xbox.