New Intel Mac mini

[Liquidog]

There's a lot of bitterness and strange ideas floating around in this thread.

Where do people get the idea that the Core Solo is a cheap processor? Cheaper than what?
Cheaper than Core Duo, yeah. Keep in mind that the Core Solo is BRAND NEW, as in just released with Apple as the FIRST company to put out a shipping Core Solo product. It's an expensive, new CPU. Don't let dual core everything go to your head like the G5's "64 bit" did. This isn't the Russian Revolution. It's the birth of the next big thing, sure, but it won't be fully realized for some time.

The integrated graphics are a strange move, sure. It's disappointing that they didn't do better, but at the same time, get over it. They added another RAM slot, additional USB ports, and the IR receiver. Granted the second two are small bits, but everything takes up space. The RAM slot occupies a huge amount of volume. Dedicated memory for the GPU is just one more thing to wedge in on a computer with little free space and one already poorly suited to gaming. The hard drives aren't particularly fast and it's probably for the best that games which will heat up a lot of the components stay away from the mini.

For everyone upset that 720p is the limit for HD content, it's a pebble in the road. The only real HD content is TV and the mini's not set up for that (yet). If you're planning on creating a High-Def media center with a several thousand dollar display and all the trimmings, why would you single out an entry level Mac mini to piece it all together? For the current market, current customers, and the current mini, it's all about standard definition in the living room. DVDs will look the same, and now with 5.1 support, you've got a very competent start.

The price went up, and that's always unpopular. But the Core Solo is way more expensive than the G4 before it, and with Airport and BT 2.0 standard now, it's just a necessary price bump. I think you should be able to custom-configure minis without these things to drop the price back, but saving $50 by dropping the wireless package isn't a big deal.

It's not what we expected and it's not what we'd hoped, but that's because of the speculation and anticipation on these forums that has always been unrealistic, and sometimes we've been spoiled by big surprises. But enough is enough with the HD whining and the lost opportunity for "gaming" and the "slow" Core Solo that wipes the floor with the G4.

Ahh, the voice of reason. I was wondering when I was going to read/hear some. Yes, integrated graphics aren't exciting, but they'll do the job, and the higher price sucks, but it will probably go down. This computer isn't going to kill anyone, including Apple. Kick it down a notch, people. And we don't know that the ibook specs will mirror the mini's. We have that idea floating around because first of all, the ibook was supposed to be a "portable imac," and second of all, that happened to be the case with the rev A minis and the latest rev of the G4 ibooks. Well, this is new architecture, and they may decided to change the grapics or cpu for the ibook. It's not like they're just going to take the logic board from a mini and shove it in a laptop case. It might have the same specs, it might not. I just hope the price stays the same. Given that the solo will have been out for a bit longer by the time the macbook/ibook shows up, that's a definite possibility. So to repeat, everyone who is flipping out (which is a lot of people,) chill.

 

[bigandy]

Another thing - why in the hell doesn't the mac mini do DVR???!!! THAT IS JUST OUTRIGHT INSANE!!!! They would sell SOOOOOOOOO many more units if it did... I would buy one right now if it did DVR... okay, I'm pissed!

(maybe a future software update!!??? Please please please!!!! soon! soon! soon!)

and yet more cost there- but you can't put that in a SOFTWARE update - because there's no, um, what do you call it... oh yes, way to connect your tv/satellite/cable ariel to the mini!

adding DVR/PVR capability to the Mac Mini would put the price up even more, to beyond what this machine is designed for - the consumer who wants a cheap mac to fanny about with.

if you want a DVR go buy an EyeTV for what, $50? 🙄

 

[Abulia]

Dude, DVI and HDMI are EXACTLY the same thing, pin for pin. The only diff is that HDMI carries audio as well, and is a bit smaller. DVI is video only. So you don't need a converter at all. The cable solution is the same thing as buying a regular DVI-DVI cable. It just passes the DVI pins into a smaller HDMI connector. For sound, you can use optical out to your reciever, and you have an all-digital hookup.

The DVI/HDMI thing is a nonissue.

Dude, they're NOT the same thing. HDMI includes HDCP (high-bandwidth digital-content protection) and if you can't output that then your little home media computer can only play 540p tops, ever. HDCP will downgrade and "restrict" your output to non-HD levels, which is a big deal.

In short, if you intend to support HD, you have to be on board with HDMI/HDCP. Very few televisions support HDCP over DVI (just so happens that mine does) but if your's doesn't, your screwed! 😱

 

[timon]

There's a lot of rhetoric on this thread, but if someone could please answer some pointed questions, that'd be great.

I really wanted a media machine that could handle DVDs/iTunes as well as do some light Photoshop work at the same time. Right now I have my 3+ yr old PowerBook G4 12" overextended doing all this (plus it outputs VGA to my Dell 26" LCD-TV, and non-digital audio to my receiver).

Questions:

-can the mini support HDMI output to my Dell?

-can the mini support spanning across two monitors, VGA and the aforementioned HDMI (I have a feeling this is a stretch)?

-if I upgrade the RAM is the Intel Integrated graphics gonna be enough?

Any help is appreciated,

-N

Yes with a DVI to HDMI cable. BTW, the chipset is HDCP compliant.

Not sure.

Graphics has nothing to do with putting extra ram.

 

[matticus008]

Crucial havent update their site yet. All the chips for the Intel machines have been laptop memory, which is great, as there isnt 4 different types of memory to order, its one type fits all, the Macbook Pro has it, the iMac has it and the Mac Mini has it too.

I wonder if that wasn't a late-breaking change, then. Because Apple's tech specs always specificy SO-DIMMs where appropriate and Crucial has always gotten information from the manufacturers and guaranteed compatibility, and they have the Core Solo and Duo minis on their site already, and are plainly listing incompatible memory. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[jordanste]

cool...

 

[Apple of my eye]

Why !!!!!

I hate integrated video cards and memory sharing!!! Why the step backward from old mini with independant vram ?

 

[Stella]

Yes I know that but unlike all the Pre-Intel machines the prices were dropping, you remember when the launched the iBook clamshell $1400 and now they are $999 price is dropping from more technology. Compare the old ibook clamshell and a current G4 iBook and do the same,
looks odd doesn't it.

OK, I see what you are saying now, but.. there is a greater jump between G4 and Intel.. than a G3 to G4 ( over a period of many years ).

I personally think the Mac Mini is a great buy, even with the IIG. You are not buying this machine to play games. People seem to forget that the Mac Mini is a lower entry machine, its not meant to be medium or high end Mac.

This Intel Mac Mini better than the G4 Mac Mini was at the time of its release.

 

[dotdotdot]

New Mac minis are cool and all but...
wheres the $499 one!?

And whats better: a 32 MB graphics card, or 64 MB integrated shared video which eats up the actual computers RAM and offers no 3D? Ewww...

iPod Hi-Fi isn't too hot either.

 

[Atlasland]

Even PC's are doing it better
http://www.pcworld.co.uk:80/martprd/product/ADVENT/DHE+1000/984209

Thats a good deal. Puts the mini to shame.

 

[Stridder44]

I think they should offer this barebones (w/o wireless/Bluetooth, Front Row/Remote, etc) and make this much more customizable.

Or they could take those things away anyway and make it a true entry level Mac (thus cheaper)


And for all the DVR-lovers out there they really should just make a DVR-type Mac (which wouldn't be intended for the "entry level" title)

 

[Project]

The way I see it is;

This is not a games machine.

This is marginally more expensive than the present G4 mini but with overall better specs.

This and the Boombox are a statement of intent from Apple. They've cornered the portable music market and now they're coming for you living room.

The Mini streams media and comes with a remote. It also easily hooks up to a TV and had digital audio output. (The Boombox had digital audio input). This is the system that Apple intends to launch their Movie download/rental service around. This is the home equivalent to the iPod - or at least could be.

Storage capacity? Well most people rent a lot more movies than they own. And if you want to shell out and download? Well it streams remember. Maybe from an external HD? Or a desktop PC/Mac?

HiDef? Well the iTunes music store does ok for itelf with its 128kbps downloads. They take up less space and most people couldn't care less. The larger the file the longer it takes to download too remember. I think Apple would want more of an 'on demand' experience.

Apple don't want to provide a DVR, they want people to get their content through them, not other providers.

The iTunes music store will morph into a multimedia provider. And this is the access point. Watch movies and listen to music at home, or take them with you on your ipod. So many people use the iTunes store, if or when they start providing full movies then people are going to want to know how to access them, and will find that the products already exist.

On their own these product are nothing special. Just like on its own the iPod isn't. There are more fully featured mp3 players out there. But its the overall experience, including the content delivery that make the ipod what it is. And that'll be true for these products too.

Of course this is speculation. But its the direction Apple are surely headed. The new Mini is the ideal machine for this. And the boombox may look daft with an iPod sticking out of it, but I bet it'd look a whole lot nicer sat under your TV.

Bingo. We have a winner. ITs clear as crystal to see where apple is going with this. The data centre. The increased number of video content. The streamable video content. The TV connectivity. Front Row and iTMS through your TV... exciting times lie ahead!

 

[DTphonehome]

The DVI/HDMI is an issue because that means that everyone with TVs that has an HDMI input needs to spend more $$ and buy a DVI/HDMI converter... Considering HDMI is "the standard" and Apple is marketing the mac mini for the living room, THEY SHOULD HAVE INCLUDED HDMI. I know, I know, more cost, but they should have!

I don't think you get what I'm saying...how did you plan to hook the mini up to a TV? Using a cable, right? So instead of buying a HDMI-HDMI cable, you'll buy a DVI-HDMI cable. NO CONVERTER.

 

[QCassidy352]

2 things,

One: Apple most have been selling an awful lot of minis previously if they believe the market can withstand a price increase. Granted, it's more fully featured than it's predecessor, but in the past Apple has lumped better performance/features, et al, into hardware upgrades and maintained the price point of the machine it was replacing as the final sweetener. The October 05 G5 iMac upgrade as one example. So Apple must be pretty confident about it's mini business 🙂

Two: The integrated graphics brouhaha is a non-starter for this class of machine. Intel's current IG isn't your grandfather's Intel integrated graphics. There is enough graphics horsepower in the new mini to handle Tiger's core graphics (which the preceding generation of minis with it's dedicated ATI graphics chipset could not) and H.264 1080p HD video (which not only could the previous mini not handle, but likely many of the machines connecting to this site can't handle). It may not handle the latest, resource intensive 3d games that well, but big f'n deal. The mini was never designed, conceived, or ever pretended to be a hard core gamer's box. Look elsewhere if you need that kind of functionality. For the average consumer's basic computing needs and multimedia horsepower to spare, the mini still stands out as an attractive choice.

You know, this is a really good post. I've gotten my complaints in like everyone else, but you make excellent points, and I'm going to stop complaining now. I think everyone who is upset with the new mini should reread this post several times.

That said, if they put this integrated crap anywhere near the new ibooks I'll be keeping this g4 a looong time.

 

[millypede]

Well you could always install this, and use this instead of FrontRow

http://www.equinux.com/us/products/mediacentral/index.html

Its free and does everything and more than the newer version of Frontrow.

 

[SaddY]

... exciting times lie ahead!

Don't get disapointed 😉. I heard many people get excited for today's or should I say yesterday's event (1:21 here).

 

[stcanard]

In short, if you intend to support HD, you have to be on board with HDMI/HDCP. Very few televisions support HDCP over DVI (just so happens that mine does) but if your's doesn't, your screwed! 😱

Is this for certain? I thought it was still tied up in the courts.

I ask because I will be planning to buy a HD TV soon, and when I look through it, I see no mention in store materials of HDMI/HDCP, all I see is DVI or "HD ready":

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/subclass.asp?logon=&langid=EN&catid=23521

And I would prefer not to buy something that is going to be obsolete in a year.

 

[wpwj40e]

I have already posted regarding the integrated video. Since I do work with graphics chips and I do work with various types of video - I can assure you that the performance and ability of this chipset will not work for most of the larger flat panel displays - 480i/p it will handle. 720p is problematic and beyond that forget about it.

Encoding/decoding, MPEG 4, H.264 - while currently can/are CPU tasks within the current set of software - that is changing and due to the various graphic capabilities that are main stream - the later applications will make use of those capabilities. Severly limiting what you are gonna be able to do with "playback" with this chipset.

Whatever - whether you want to argue games etc. The higher end mini was clearly targeted for the family room tv set. So I'll drop this...cause it appears that defending Apple's right to mitigate the functionality it did provide by including the integrated graphics chip set - is don't buy it or live with it.

That's certainly is an arrogant way of marketing....I won't go there on cost. If you want to give the consumer a choice - add the "tax" for having the ability to atually use the machine as it is marketed - I can gripe about it - but actually can buy it.

Today I cannot. So if I really want to stream with front row and do video etc - better have a non Apple machine hooked up to my family room. Oh yea...it will be more $$$(how ironic - isn't it usuallly the other way around!)...And add an apple to do the basics.

I'm gonna sit this one out - but what a shame, 'cause I really wanted to play. If the future products take this same direction...I may not have a choice but to go back to the dark side.

 

[asencif]

Bingo. We have a winner. ITs clear as crystal to see where apple is going with this. The data centre. The increased number of video content. The streamable video content. The TV connectivity. Front Row and iTMS through your TV... exciting times lie ahead!

Yeah this clearly is a Guinea pig/Stop gap system for the real deal somewhere down the road. Wouldn't buy it at such a price. Especially, with higher spec Living Room PC's at better pricing. On thing...WXPMC sucks. So it's still in Apple's corner to take control of this market.

 

[matticus008]

New Mac minis are cool and all but...
wheres the $499 one!?

And whats better: a 32 MB graphics card, or 64 MB integrated shared video which eats up the actual computers RAM and offers no 3D? Ewww...

iPod Hi-Fi isn't too hot either.

Actually, the new Intel graphics have a much more sophisticated set of 3D features than the Radeon 9200. The Radeon 9200 is way, way out of date. Remember the "no ripple" hubbub? It's fixed! It won't win any performance awards, but it is a step up from the 9200.

 

[adamcz]

So has anybody come up with any good complaints that don't relate to video games? I'm not trying to troll - I'm really considering buying, and I'm ok with a computer that doesn't play games. So besides video games, what's wrong with the IIG?

 

[SaddY]

So has anybody come up with any good complaints that don't relate to video games? I'm not trying to troll - I'm really considering buying, and I'm ok with a computer that doesn't play games. So besides video games, what's wrong with the IIG?

It's not the IIG on it's own that causes the complaints in imho. it's the combination of IIG AND a price increase. the combination of those is a real dealbreaker

 

[Abulia]

Is this for certain? I thought it was still tied up in the courts.

HD-DVD has stated this is for certain; if you don't use the HDMI interface w/ HDCP they will downgrade your output to sub-HD levels, in effect neutralizing the point of HD-DVD.

Sony/BluRay haven't yet made a decision, but it's expected they'll fall on the same side. Congress (to my knowledge) is still discussing the issue, but the FCC's Digital Output Protection Technology restriction is still going to limit what you can view on a non-HDCP interface.

In Europe, in order to have the "HD Ready" designation you must support HDCP. In any event, I wouldn't consider the purchase of a HD set at all unless it had HDMI/HDCP; that's an investment you don't want to have to repurchase.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Now that the Mac mini is integrated, do you think that the iBook will do the same and that the illustrious 512MB of RAM will be religated to 385MB of useful RAM? If the consumer Macs start turning into "trendier" PC's it will officially be the fourth sign of the Apocolypse....
First Sign: Bush being re-elected
Second Sign: "Doing a heck of a job Brownie!"
Third Sign: Our government actually letting a Middle Eastern country get as far as they have with a buy out of our nation's ports.

I'm going to puke.....

Politics are for the political forum, please.

And is it just me, or did Apple drop a FireWire port? USB is important, but they could have crammed at least 1 more FireWire port (total of 2) on there... right?

 

[Apple of my eye]

Apple min-emachine.

simply put: min-emachine.