New Intel Mac mini

[firebox]

Has anyone seen the video on CNet?

http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6044210.html?tag=ne.vid

It might just be the poor sound recording, but I'd say that Steve (oh lord and god of all things Apple, praise be, repeat until psycologist arrives). Oh, sorry, where was I?

Yeah, I thought that Steve looked more than a little bit embarassed by the his offerings. He spoke more quietly, and with a lot less enthusiasm than usual. Tired? More excited by goings-on at Disney now he's a bigger fish? Or does he just know that these are overpriced, underwhelming offerings?

Sponsered by Microsoft !?!?!?! wtf.... 😱

Won't have time to watch it properly untill later on but...i just puked in my mouth a little... 😉

Looks like a good couple of products anyway, i think the boombox could be a great little speaker solution for many people, i sell on average 5-6 Bose units every Saturday and given the choice, as long as it at least matches the Bose for sound, i think people will go for the Apple product, the design is typical apple and looks very tight imho. The Mac mini also looks like a good little machine, all this whining about high-end graphics cards is worthless to someone who just wants e-mail etc.

Also the price hike is nothing to moan about, Airport is now standard and people DO expect this. I work full time at a telecom company and can testify that even the most technologically retarded people EXPECT Wi-Fi in their new machines, the same as they expect DVD burning, good quality Audio/video and smooth OS performance, even this class of people (the sector that the mini is aimed at) consider anything else to be second rate... As for the cases, i'm not sure either but i bet i sell hundreds of them!

Good "fun" products imho! I think we may have expected too much, i definately did...Roll on April fool's !!

 

[Romanesq]

Youz right

People are peeved over 2 things:
a) The cost increase
b) The assumed problem with integrated graphics

a) can be explained by the extra value of the processor, standard wireless, extra USB, optical audio, high RAM capacity and probably several other improvements. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument that these things aren't worth the increase. I would agree that the $500 price point *is* magical and perhaps having a more stripped down box (sans wireless?) may have made a few budget minded folks happier. But it's not a rip-off.

b) Is still a big guess and WILL ALWAYS BE, because there will be no way to truely compare similar machines (since the G4 is so different) There can be little doubt that the added speed in the Intel chips outweighs the graphics situation. It seems that the shared memory is the biggest problem and 512MB minus shared memory won't cut it in almost any situation. Now folks talking about rosetta should remember a few things: 1. rosetta isn't forever. 2. Photoshop and FCS cost more than the machine itself (unless you're EDU or a pirate). 3. Office runs good enough. I know there are more rosetta apps, but that probably covers most of the big ones. The gamers should buy something else. Sorry.

As a poster several hundred posts ago reiterated: this announcment was for the living room, not the gaming room. Let the year finish before you claim the intel transition is a failure. Jeez, it's just febr---march.

does that sum up the thread pretty well? oh. and DVI and HDMI cables can be bought to work with a mac mini and HDTV...

I'm still baffled by the conclusions on the integrated graphics for such a low end machine. Isn't this thee low end machine after all? The one you just get to "play around" with your existing mouse, keyboard and monitor.

I was very happy with the new mini and ordered one. I am frankly astounded by the level of complaints on a low end machine. From what I read on the intel graphics and audio chipset, it should be fine for almost all tasks that people would do on a low end machine for $500. $500!

The amount of pissing and moaning about having to get a $15-20 adaptor to plug into an HDTV is amazing in its whining.

It's not like there aren't alternative machines with full capabilities. I'm sure at some point I'll be upgrading my G4 15" to the new two chip model.

When I read the thread earlier on what might come, there wasn't even much expectation that these minis would get two chips. Now you have an option for that too.

I mean I know some people like games, but do they have to act like children?

 

[thies]

Well if Apple says so that's enough for me! 🙄

/sarcasm

"support" might mean ticking along at 5 frames per second scaled down to 800x600 😀

 

[milo]

You guys need to get a clue. We're talking about a dual core machine with a ton of features for $799, that's a great deal.

I don't get why people are whining so much. Is it really that big a deal that there isn't a $399 or $499 machine that you'd end up spending money on upgrades anyway? And the graphics chip will only matter if you're doing hardcore gaming, any PC at this price is going to suck for games.

 

[Scarpad]

The only thing I could think of when I read the specs today is what a PC I could put together for $799. If they are aiming this new mini at the HT Crowd its woefully inadequate

 

[osustudent]

The only thing I could think of when I read the specs today is what a PC I could put together for $799. If they are aiming this new mini at the HT Crowd its woefully inadequate

PC for $799 doesn't necessarily equal the quality of a Mac for $799. And, of course you can put a computer together cheaper if you buy all the parts. I know where you're coming from, but ...

 

[Scarpad]

My problem with the Mac Mini is that it no longer has a set identity. People are saying you have a great system now that can go in your HT, but others are like it's a great entry-level desktop. Now let's look at these points...

Great Entry-Level Desktop
I disagree now since it's no longer $499. Yes it comes with a brand new chip, but if someone is looking for an entry-level computer will they care for two digital in/out ports? They might not even use all 4 USB ports, nor bluetooth. Possibly not even care about Front Row, streaming content, and a remote control. To me a core solo and even just a 1gb max would have been great and kept the price at $499 or even maybe $450.

Add-on to HT system
Now for those who are buying this for a media content distributer then let's look at what's offered. Would you pay $599 or $799 for a machine that will just be used to stream music and HD trailers? I would think many are looking at storing tons of DVD rips from their collection, however the HDD space is small so you have to add an external HDD. Now why not have H.264 content in this system and save space, but wait the integrated graphics chip hampers that idea. Also, eating up more memory then it has to for a dedicated mutimedia system. Let's also remember that there is no PVR software for this system right now or any movie dist. store available either.

So what is this product aimed for? Consumers that love the small look and have money to just spend on a music streaming machine for their HT system?

IMHO, I agree with those that say the mini is not a gaming machine, but what is it then? Too overpriced for the entry-level and underperformer on the HT side. At the moment you also have to deal with Rosetta as well. I think the higher end mini should've had a dedicated GPU. It's always been an Apple standard in all their systems. For design purposes and anyone putting together a computer mostly always buy a dedicated GPU. They even used it as a promotional attack against low budget PC's with the G4 mini's, but of course they used to kill Intell as well and now they are here.

I agree it way overpriced and way underpowered to go into an HT. And to be frank about Front Row I loaded it on my Mini and it's pretty underwhelming. I think MCE2005 is not all that and FR is worse.

 

[Linito]

are u crazy!?

In fact, do we get 3.5" drives?
I would understand the loss of a decent card...

I really wanted to play Doom3 split on 2x30" cinema displays for less than $300, I guess i'll have to wait till next tuesday🙁

The only mac that can (4 now) work with 2 X 30" displays is the PowerMac G5

 

[50548]

Mac Mini with Intel Core duo is fantastic!

However, the graphics card is rather poor. It supports Tiger full graphical capabilities, but I doubt it will support those of next Mac OS X releases. In particular, considering that Mac OS X will have to compete with Windows Vista Aero Glass (and Novell Xgl for Linux) in cool graphical effects.

Sorry, THEY have to compete with Apple on that...we've had "cool" graphical effects for years already...Aero Glass is just a cheap copy...and Linux? Is there anyone who uses that?

 

[trbgln]

A 3.5 inch drive? what exactly do you mean?

hard disk drive. the ones in the mini are the smaller capacity
ones you find in laptops (2.5 inch, I believe). We (me and
previous poster) simply
mean the normal harddisks where you get now a fast 250 Gig
3.5 inch drive for the same price as a slower notebook 80 Gig drive.

 

[Scarpad]

Really you could buy a Shuttle cube and make a kickass HT Machine for $799 what is the point of this thing. And the Ipod entries was really poor. I still have a nano but My 5G was sold when I bought a Zen vision which has a staggering amount of features compared to the 5G 30, and better Sound and Video Performance, I love my Original Mini, but Apple is really missing the boat here.

 

[mkjj]

hard disk drive. the ones in the mini are the smaller capacity
ones you find in laptops (2.5 inch, I believe). We (me and
previous poster) simply
mean the normal harddisks where you get now a fast 250 Gig
3.5 inch drive for the same price as a slower notebook 80 Gig drive.

Interesting, thanks for that info. learn something everyday!

 

[Linito]

Intel crap

I think the upgrade was great but it goes against what the mini is🙂
I was hopping that apple would anounce a mac mini with the equivelent of the G4 + front row with the same or lower price.
🙁


__________________
PowerMac G5 bi 2.0GHz
4GB ipod mini

 

[PR.]

Sorry, THEY have to compete with Apple on that...we've had "cool" graphical effects for years already...Aero Glass is just a cheap copy...and Linux? Is there anyone who uses that?

lol, how ironic that a mac user is questioning if any actually uses linux. Vistas new UI are more than a little eye candy for the XP users with jealous eyes of OSX. 🙄

I have a mac mini its been ok but I have found it slow for some of the things I use it for. When we get some recommended specs for Vista I will probably buy and build a small and quiet PC for it and use the old mini on my HDTV.

 

[thies]

Sorry, THEY have to compete with Apple on that...we've had "cool" graphical effects for years already...Aero Glass is just a cheap copy...and Linux? Is there anyone who uses that?

Considering the ridiculously small marketshare of osx I would say, yes many people are using it. I fear you have it backwards, Apple is still trying hard to compete with Windows and Linux. And crippling their much hyped switching machine to be unable to play any games decently compared to the competition is laughable.

 

[50548]

Well, it seems like Windows fanboys are attempting to take over MSR again...

I will forget about those vaporware Aero Glass and Linux considerations, and get back to the Mac Mini

A few more facts, with help from www.macsonly.com:

Additions to the previous bare-bones G4 model:

Yes, the under $500 Mac is history with the low-end MacIntel mini coming in at $599. But the $499 model was a real stripper and the $599 is loaded with extras. Let's look at the additions from the previous $499 G4 Mac mini in the new $599 model:

Faster CPU at 1.5GHz
Faster graphics processor (see below)
Faster system bus at 667MHz
Faster RAM at 667MHz
IR Remote controller
IR port
Optical digital audio in/out ports
2 more USB 2.0 ports
1 more RAM slot
Built-in AirPort Extreme
Built-in Bluetooth
Gigabit ethernet

Explanation to faster GPU, again from MacsOnly as source. BOTTOMLINE: Whiners should be quiet now, as they are dead wrong on their conclusions.

"What really caught our (and many others') eye in the new MacIntel minis' specs are that they use Intel's GMA 950 graphics processor. What's that? Aren't these integrated chipsets used in the low-end el cheapo Wintel PCs? Yes and no, i.e. yes they are and no, not this particular model. The Intel GMA 950, where "GMA" stands for Graphics Media Accelerator, is the high-end Intel graphics chipset in the high-end Intel 845GM integrated chipset used in fairly high-end Wintel laptops.

Here are the specs for the Intel Graphics Media Accelerator GMA 950:

256-bit graphics core running at 400MHz
Up to 10.6 GB/sec memory bandwidth with DDR2 667 system memory
1.6 GPixels/sec and 1.6 GTexels/sec fill rate
Up to 224 MB maximum video memory
2048x1536 at 75 Hz maximum resolution
Dynamic Display Modes for flat-panel, wide-screen and Digital TV support
Here's what Intel says about the GMA 950:

If you want to watch video on your PC, then utilize Intel GMA 950 graphics for smooth video playback, native 16:9 format support for wide screen flat panels, motion compensation for smooth DVD playback and support for popular HDTV display formats.

and,

Stunning Video Playback

High Definition Hardware Motion Compensation to support high definition hi-bitrate MPEG2 media playback
Up and Down Scaling of Video Content
High Definition Content Decode - up to two stream support
5x3 Overlay Filtering.
Alright, enough of the Intel self puffing. Just how do the Intel GMA 950 specs compare with those of an ATI card that we know about?

The closest performance match that we could find is the relatively new ATI Mac & PC Radeon 9600 Pro and it is nearly identical. It has a 400MHz engine clock speed, produces a fill rate of 1.6Gpixels/sec and uses up to 256MB VRAM via 128-bit memory interface. The ATI Mac & PC Radeon 9600 Pro is no slouch. It is much faster than the ATI Radeon 7200 graphics used in the G4 Mac minis but falls short of the more recent ATI 9800, X800 and X1600 Radeons for the Mac.

So our conclusion, on paper, is that Apple has answered our wish for "...decent graphics hardware..." that is likely to do well with everything just short of high-end video processing and fast 3D gaming."

 

[Platform]

Intel GMA graphics and $100 dollars more...what a joke.

G4 > Core Solo 1.42 vs 1.66Ghz
167Mhz vs 667Mhz bus
1 vs 2 RAM slots
2 vs 4 USB ports
nothing vs FrontRow with remote
100Mb vs 1000Mb ethernet
no audio in vs digital in and out
iLife 05 vs 06

get the point ?, stop complaining its a great product.

 

[Yvan256]

no sh*t! but why the hell would you insist I buy a new cable???? obviously I already have a cable because I am currently using my TV. I spent $400 on my 25' HDMI to HDMI cable... I'm not gonna spend another $400 to get a HDMI to DVI cable - that would be pretty stupid right...

You spent 400$US on a cable?! 😱

 

[railpass]

New Mac mini run Aperature?

Wonder if that would be possible......

 

[Mr. DG]

This is from something on extremetech linked to earlier:

"We can state flatly that if you buy a system using Intel's GMA950 integrated graphics and want to play 3D games, invest at least $60 in an add-on card. If what you want is simply a system that can run standard office software, plus maybe play some DVD movies, then Intel's new graphics core is probably suitable.

You might wonder what the point is of putting all the engineering effort into the 3D core, if it sucks so badly at games? The answer is pretty simple:

Longhorn.

Intel's new GMCH will probably run Longhorn's upper tier Aero Glass interface pretty well. And Intel certainly wants that, because its OEMs sell truckloads of systems with integrated graphics into businesses. So businesses whose users want to use the Aero Glass interface will have a solution that works, but the IT budget won't be severely impacted. If you're buying a system for the home with the intent of running the occasional 3D game, drop an extra $60 and get an add-in board."


In other words, this chipset is perfect for the mac mini. If it can run aero glass well, then it can deal with OSX. The only thing is, maybe 1Gig should be what you're looking at in terms of main system RAM as this chipset will hog a fair bit.

 

[Yvan256]

A 3.5 inch drive? what exactly do you mean?

The Mac mini uses a 2.5" drive, usually used in laptops.

What people are asking is another high-end Mac mini that's still 6.5" x 6.5", but taller to accomodate for the 3.5" hard drive. And a better GPU that doesn't share system memory (I'd be more than happy with the same specs as the iMac - ATI Radeon X1600/128MB).

In fact, the cost savings from switching from a 2.5" to 3.5" drive should allow to pay for the GPU and its memory. And perhaps increase the capacity of the drive too (120GB/7200RPM instead of 80GB/5400RPM).

 

[zap2]

It's not a price increase, the old Mini that started at 499 did not have BT and AirPort built in, the 599 is, so they really just killed the 499 model

 

[DeathChill]

Apple's site merely says it supports Core Graphics (which I take to include Quartz Extreme), I haven't seen any mention of Core Video and Core Image. Based on the specs emerging in this thread, it sounds like it might have the beef for it, but I'm worried about memory bandwidth saturation.

Only time will tell..

No, the GMA900 supports Core Image (as is evident by the dev kits) so obviously the GMA950 will support Core Image as well.

 

[balamw]

That doesnt make sense to me. Why would anyone buy a 1.42Ghz G4 mini for the same as a 1.5Ghz Intel.

And now we know why they never formally announced the 1.5 GHz speed bump to the higher end G4 minis. 😉

You mean the new one isn't any faster? They're both 1.5 GHz?

B

 

[hap]

My thoughts

The price of an intel chip is more than the G4. Quit whining. Don't buy it if you don't like it.

No wonder you guys are the laughing stock of the computing world.

Are you a complete moron Of course we won't buy it if we don't like it. What on earth possesed you to make such a basesless, gratuitus and rude statement. My problem with the Mini is the integrated graphics as well and I don't think it's whining to point out that Apple produced a great machine with this one exception.

This for me is like someone who makes a stylish sports car with great cornering, power stearing, a high preformance engine, etc. and then, at the very, end cheap out and puts in a crappy braking system. can you still use it? Sure but for a few pennies more you could have given me everything. and made the car way more usefull. How many more of these things would they have sold by now (both g4 and now) if they would have installed (and advertised) a decent video card. Mayby thats the point. Perhaps Apple is purposfully sabotaging the minis sales so it doesn't canibalize some other machine who knows it's just disapointing.

Also has else anyone noticed that there 4-5X speed improvement compares the previous low end mini 1.2Ghz to the current hi end dual core 1.66. not exacly apples to apples in my opinion. Oh well thats marketing for you.