New Intel Mac mini

[JtheLemur]

You spent 400$US on a cable?!

You've obviously never been shopping for HDMI cables...

... And those prices are for "home grown" cables. Try comparing those to Monster or even Belkin and they're a good deal!

 

[Yvan256]

You've obviously never been shopping for HDMI cables...

... And those prices are for "home grown" cables. Try comparing those to Monster or even Belkin and they're a good deal!

Why do these cables cost so much? It's insane! 😱

 

[gavinsan]

this is sad... i was wating for this update on the minis so i could buy one for my little sister... but she likes to play some games such The Sims 2... and with integrated graphics... it will s*ck...

oh well.. i will wat for the next thing. 🙁

 

[whooleytoo]

No, the GMA900 supports Core Image (as is evident by the dev kits) so obviously the GMA950 will support Core Image as well.

Good to know, thanks. Strange then that Apple would specify it supports Core Graphics then, but not Core Image (unless I've missed a mention to it somewhere).

 

[dont24]

Can someone answer a question about Front Row? If you purchase a new mini and decide not hook it up to a TV, does that make Front Row and the remote useless?

 

[thies]

Good to know, thanks. Strange then that Apple would specify it supports Core Graphics then, but not Core Image (unless I've missed a mention to it somewhere).

Maybe they too got confused by all their marketing speech and couldn't remember what the hell Core Image was supposedly doing.

 

[steelfist]

Can someone answer a question about Front Row? If you purchase a new mini and decide not hook it up to a TV, does that make Front Row and the remote useless?

no. it works as long as you have a monitor. any monitor will do.

also, not to be rude, but please don't judge just by specs. try it out yourself, then judge.

also, i think that with all these features, and stuff, it's definetally an upgrade not a downgrade of the imac mini g4. apple made themselves look bad by stuffing too many goodies, making the price look ridiculous.

i'm going to go to a apple store, and try it out myself.

 

[ScottB]

I'm glad they put a Core Due in the mini, it raises the chance we will see a Core Duo in an iBook. And we get more speed!

 

[dont24]

no. it works as long as you have a monitor. any monitor will do.

Okay, but what's the point of Front Row if the mini is not hooked up to your entertainment system?

 

[Legacy]

Good to know, thanks. Strange then that Apple would specify it supports Core Graphics then, but not Core Image (unless I've missed a mention to it somewhere).

Oh no theres no doubt about it...GMA 950 has full Core Image support because its DX9 complaint and has programmable Pixel Shaders:

Microsoft* DirectX* 9 Hardware Acceleration Features:
Pixel Shader 2.0

Volumetric Textures

Shadow Maps

Slope Scale Depth Bias

Two-Sided Stencil

link here http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

 

[steelfist]

I'm glad they put a Core Due in the mini, it raises the chance we will see a Core Dueo in an iBook.

that's exactally what i was thinking. Yea ibook core duo!

 

[ppnkg]

I see the voting is more or less over.. about 500 positives and over 1100 negatives. The decisive factor was the iig, but after reading a few articles online, I think that it's ok for the mini - it will do what it's supposed to do in a mini.

 

[ScubaDuc]

. and then, at the very, end cheap out and puts in a crappy braking system.

This comment fits HARLEYS like a glove! but at least one can put Brembo's on them... 😛

 

[artifex]

Okay, you know what really sucks? Apple is crippling the ability of these minis purely for market segmentation reasons. They ought to be selling the exact same spec as the iMacs, just without the built in display.

I can see why the hard drives are limited, because 2.5 inch drives are more expensive, but why'd they have to use those graphics? And why no faster chips?

 

[Jon the Heretic]

Emachines Mini

I'm still baffled by the conclusions on the integrated graphics for such a low end machine. Isn't this thee low end machine after all? The one you just get to "play around" with your existing mouse, keyboard and monitor.

I was very happy with the new mini and ordered one. I am frankly astounded by the level of complaints on a low end machine. From what I read on the intel graphics and audio chipset, it should be fine for almost all tasks that people would do on a low end machine for $500. $500!

Actually, $600. Apple jacked the price up 20%, too. Problem is that such low end graphics are typical of machines that sell for more like $300 than $600 - $800. Someone posted a comparison of this card to a low-end VRAM-based card that sells for $60, and IIG 's performance was just embarrassing. No one expected a particularly good card, but not something this bad.

Each release of Mac X is more and more dependent on pushing 2D and 3D effects to the GPU. Tiger is heavily dependent on the GPU for Da Snap. This has been a progression over the years that is finally paying off nicely. I simply cannot see going back and putting such a low end card in any modern Mac given the way Tiger works. I am gratified the new iMac has such a nice card in comparison; can't imagine who'd want a Mini now.

 

[syriana]

ibook/ macbook

The $799 one is worth the extra $200. If Apple can sell a SFF stand-alone Mac Mini with a dual-core processor, it gives me hope that the MacBook/iBook will come with a dual-core processor at the $999 price point, and that there will be a Core Solo variant for less money ($849?).

the core duo starts at 799$ , what does that mean for the macbook? ad a new screen, battery (two not so cheap item) isight (don't have a clue what is the cost of these for Apple) keyboard and trackpad (should be very cheap..)
Can we really have a 999$ core duo macbook ??
On the over hand, I think you're right, we could see a core solo for cheaper price than today macbook, if you add all the mentioned above to 599$, it may leave some room til the 999$ mark.. (at least a cheaper intel mc than PPc mac😕 )

 

[thies]

I see the voting is more or less over.. about 500 positives and over 1100 negatives. The decisive factor was the iig, but after reading a few articles online, I think that it's ok for the mini - it will do what it's supposed to do in a mini.

According to Apples product page that includes playing the latest 3d games. I laughed.

And for the appologists who still insist despite Apples own statement that the mini is not for gaming and that gamers buy windows machines anyway: with apple selling machines which aren't even in theory capable of running any semi recent game in an acceptable way that will definitely not change.

I guess it'll be remembered as "well, at least they tried". I'll go buy a shuttle and build myself a small enough gaming/hometheater machine that does all I want it to. Tired of waiting for Apple to get their act together.

 

[Hattig]

Okay, but what's the point of Front Row if the mini is not hooked up to your entertainment system?

Watching movies on a computer monitor isn't all that bad if that is all you have available (e.g., student, or the main TV is being watched by the other half) - and in some cases it isn't a bad idea - the widescreen Dells or a cinema display would do very nicely in these cases, and even your bog standard monitor would be fine.

Storage space isn't an issue with the Bonjour media browsing ability - you can have the home media server elsewhere, and save lots of HD space on the mini. If you have a suitable setup anyway.

I think I'll wait for end-user reviews (esp. graphics), and for any kinks to be worked out though. Later this year it might get a speed bump too, and I'll have the money by then.

 

[NatronB]

A few questions....

I'm thinking about buying a mini, some questions...

1- first off, I'm assuming the mini can push out 5.1 Surround Sound, is this true?

2- next, I have an 80GB 7200RPM external Firewire HD, would it be a good idea to boot the OS off this guy?

3- right now I span my PB G4 12" Rev A onto my Dell 26" LCD TV, with the DVI connector, should I expect better graphics (and in what way?)?

4- as an addendum to 3, what's the DV output? My LCD supports 1080i. Am I looking at this the wrong way?

5- lastly, will it play the Sims 2 reasonably?

Thanks,

-N

 

[Hattig]

Actually, $600. Apple jacked the price up 20%, too. Problem is that such low end graphics are typical of machines that sell for more like $300 than $600 - $800. Someone posted a comparison of this card to a low-end VRAM-based card that sells for $60, and IIG 's performance was just embarrassing. No one expected a particularly good card, but not something this bad.

I've been saying Intel Integrated Graphics for months now, for the iBook and the Mac Mini. Specifically the GMA900 and GMA950. Reasonable specs (for integrated graphics) on paper, but the drivers on Windows clearly suck. I'm waiting for reviews. I think they'll be adequate for the typical usage for this product, which won't include high-end games.

And can people stop calling it iig! I keep thinking of old Apple computers!

 

[Krevnik]

Mac Mini with Intel Core duo is fantastic!

However, the graphics card is rather poor. It supports Tiger full graphical capabilities, but I doubt it will support those of next Mac OS X releases. In particular, considering that Mac OS X will have to compete with Windows Vista Aero Glass (and Novell Xgl for Linux) in cool graphical effects.

Let me ask you this: have you used Aero (Aero Glass is redundant)? As it stands right now, unless something huge changes, OS X has been capable of everything Aero's implementation in Vista is. The features that would have made Apple play catch-up aren't actually due until the major release after Vista... oops. Not to mention that using dark backgrounds on a Vista machine is a mistake if you want to use the Glass theme. It is just absolutely awful trying to read text that sits on a translucent titlebar, blended against a dark background, the lack of contrast is not nice.

Apple is already on OpenGL for its UI, and looks like it will soon be on a resolution-independant display system (which will work on any graphics card that supports OS X). It uses pixel shaders to get the effects you see in the Dashboard on recent systems. OS X already has what Aero has and then some. MS won't catch up to where Apple already is until well after Vista.

Xgl is another story. It offers some really nice technical benefits that Quartz + GL don't currently offer, but that helps the developer, not the end-user (except for the performance and RAM gains, specifically). So Xgl is not at the stage of offering nifty visuals, it is offering the nifty speedups and reduced CPU usage that sitting on OGL carries. It has the /potential/ for eye candy, but when has Linux been about eye candy?

 

[Jon the Heretic]

Minimal change in form factor would have worked

What pisses me off the most is that Apple could have increased the size of the mini by 1" cubed and then put a 3.5" drive in. They would have saved themselves about $100. Spend 40 of that savings on a decent card, 20 on the bigger case, and then take the last 40 and take it as more profit. Everybody would be happy. The only reason they made the mini so small in the beginning is so they could take everybody's attention away from the fact that it had sub-par hardware. Now that the hardware is decent they should make it a bit bigger.

I agree that a truly minimal change in the form factor would have allowed them to use 3.5" hard drives---saving money, increasing performance, and allowing for vastly better expansion. I would bet most users wouldn't even realize the form factor was larger if implemented properly, until they did a side by side comparison with the old Mini. Frankly, without a 3.5" hard drive, I don't see this ever evolving into a true Contenda for the living room media center. Funny how Apple sometimes cripples units with changes that would have actually SAVED them money. Weird...

 

[skwoytek]

I will say again: This is Apple's move to the living room. This chipset is perfect for HD to the TV.

The 9200 is still the better option in comparison to the 950G. Check out benchmarks here: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2427&p=1

From the Final Words of the anandtech bechmark article: For those who truly do not need or care about 3D, integrated graphics are fine. People who are nostalgic about Quake III and earlier 3D games will also be satisfied. If just running something with 3D is important, these solutions will get the job done. But integrated performance has still not reached a level where we can recommend it to anyone who wants to play the current generation titles.


Also see this article from HDBeat. The Intel Mac Mini is Perfect for HDTV. Funny enough, for those arguing that the move to a faster PC is unnecessary if you're not meant to play games. The blogger writes, "I am of course assuming that the Core Solo 1.5 is fast enough to decode H.264 HD material."

 

[rsamo]

Where's the Video Airport Express????

This macmini is nothing more than a highly overpriced way to view your media on your tv. If you want a desktop computer get an iMac - you get more for your money. Granted this will probably work well in terms of accessing content from your PC and playing it on your TV, the problem is if this is the reason you want one it costs way too much. How about you give me a video airport express that will hook up to an HDTV and you can even double the price of the current airport express. Add a remote which will communicate with the Airport which will communicate with Front Row on my iMac. Then I'll be happy.

 

[ninethirty]

Worth it for HT?

I did read a lot of the replies, but there seems to be alot of people saying the Integrated Graphics are worthless and others say they're not bad. I had a high end Core Duo ordered yesterday with 1 gig of ram and a 120 gig HD but cancelled it over concerns with the IIG.

I plan on using this mini to hook up to my Sony Bravia XBR 40" (the same one Steve showed the mini hooked up to) for displaying downloaded movies/video, playing music and maybe a bit of iMovie and iPhoto. I'd like to try to push some 720p HD through it but the graphics processor scares me. Am I going to be happy, and will it be able to handle all that stuff, or will it begin to choke and am I going to wish I had held out for a better revision?

Also a guy said that it does NOT do 1:1 pixel mapping on the TV I have. I was planning on hooking it up DVI-VGA. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance