None taken 😁
I was trying to explain why Apple’s marketing department may have felt to use the word “liquid” similar to “retina” which also meant nothing other than higher resolution/ppi.
iPad mini being the only Apple tablet with the highest ppi.
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New iPad Mini Has Downclocked A15 Chip Compared to iPhone 13
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I was trying to explain why Apple’s marketing department may have felt to use the word “liquid” similar to “retina” which also meant nothing other than higher resolution/ppi.
iPad mini being the only Apple tablet with the highest ppi.
They do, it's called the Surface Duo, but it's a real split screen and it's android based. Still, it might fit what you want.
With any iOS device, expecting it to always keep an app in memory in the background is a lesson in futility. It's just not going to happen all the time, that's not what it was designed to do. To say it's aggressive at shutting down apps it thinks you're not using is an understatement.
Well, if the car manufacturer only advertised 200hp on the spec-sheet, and systematically put the higher output engines (as tested) into a certain car, and the less powerful engines in another model, but the engines in BOTH models exceeds the spec, then it’s actually OK. The customer shouldn’t expect more or less power than the spec, that’s all. No need for the manufacturer to even advertise it.
I get what you mean. I’d want more power than advertised as well, but if I only get what I ordered, then 🤷🏻♂️
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
IMO, News app needs some serious love (by Apple). I think in the effort to make website content "flow"(?) like digital magazines... AND with Apples efforts to pinch the ways that such entities make money... strategies are being used to try to get around Apple's pinch that make the News app increasingly frustrating to use as intended. For example, I too can replicate THAT issue on select articles. Next time(s), take note of the article and open it on your most RAM-loaded Mac in macOS News. You'll probably find that multiples of iPad RAM can't handle it fully either. To me that points to NEWS app issues and/or a need for a better compromise between how professional publishers make their money and Apple creating software that pinches important bits of that.
I use Google Voice EVERY day on this 1GB Mini 2 and don't experience that issue at all. In fact, it's always open as I double this Mini as my "phone" with GV and buds. However, my approach is different. I build/copy the full number into memory and then go to GV for a paste. Maybe if I was flipping back and forth, I would experience the same?
Email counts do the same on RAM-loaded Macs. Basically, you need to open the app and/or have it running to update/process. I don't see that as a fault as I fully expect portable mobile hardware to mostly be single-task than live multi-task. Yes, I realize iOS CAN do it but I suppose I'm accustomed to that updating by opening the mail app and letting it update when it "controls" the hardware. Mail is another always-open app on my iPad. So I see that happen but take it as "normal" instead of abnormal.
My Mini 2 isn't incredible. It clearly feels as slung around here "long in tooth" now. But it's not as bad as some of the descriptors slung in this thread about 3GB and 4GB RAM being too small. For example, I don't have any sense of it having to constantly reload so much and/or apps losing my place very often. Yes, if I leave Safari, do other things and then come back to Safari, pages reload. If I leave apps, do other things and then come back to them, apps may reload. But I use it more like it's "one task at a time", so I NEVER have 6 tabs open in Safari... and when I use an app, I generally don't leave it midway of filling something out or whatever. If I want to do a LOT of multitasking and jumping around tabs/apps, I use a much more capable Mac for that kind of productivity.
Relatively, I'm sure the Mini 2 IS slow. But since I haven't upgraded to a new iPad, I don't quite notice. But I can offer that functionally, iOS in its measily 1GB RAM is not nearly as bad as some choices of words/phrases have implied in this thread... IF one is not trying to use it in ways that a Mac is much better suited. If I need 6 tabs in Safari and I needed to jump around through several apps at a time to accomplish whatever I'm trying to accomplish, I'm sure I would be disappointed as you describe. But if I wanted to be THAT productive with tech, I move to the Mac.
I just ordered a maximized Mini 6... but I expect to use it the same way. If I want to do big multitasking and/or juggle many websites in tabs, I'll switch to the Mac. I don't think of even this 6... or those pros... as devices for that level of usage.
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No, but it makes them money by getting people to upgrade their underpowered devices every year.
I got news for you iPad mini will not see an update for another 2 years or more. Your comment is best suited for the iPhone but at this point for most tasks it’s unnoticeable.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Regardless of even Apple's official word on that, in my experience, killing a bunch of open apps DOES seem to "speed" up an iPad. I could be fooling myself or it could be coincidence. Often when I'm doing this, it is for other people griping about their mobiles. When I check, they seem to have dozens of apps "open" and they often don't know how to reboot. So I show them how to close the apps and then how to reboot and it "seems" to make a difference. Again, could be coincidental, perhaps the reboot freeing leaked memory is actually the magic here, or I/They only THINK it makes a difference.
I notice the SAME with AppleTV. It even seems to be MORE noticeable there. Manually close apps and reboot seems to solve the bulk of AppleTV wonkiness. I've long believed there is some memory(eating) leak in tvOS. I've practically adopted an approach of rebooting automatically every 6-8 weeks or so.
That’s the thing. Apple talks about how powerful their new device is compared to an older version, but they also acknowledge that the older device was still already quite impressive, and much faster than their leading competitors’ products.
Most people don’t upgrade every year, and if they do, it can’t be because they think last year’s iPhone or iPad is slow. It’s either because they get bored really quickly or there’s a new feature they want or both.
There are threads after threads discussing how “overpowered” the iPad Pro has become, to the point where many believe that the 2018 iPad Pro is still plenty powerful today, with very little need to upgrade to the M1 Pros. Having a Mini with A15 and 4GB RAM is more powerful than a 2018 iPad Pro, I’m pretty sure.
Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on that last part.
The 2018 iPad Pro has 4GB of RAM (the 1TB 2018 model has 6GB). I always check the RAM of iPhones and iPads in https://www.gsmarena.com/, just search for "iPad Pro 2018" for example.
In my 2020 iPad Pro with 6GB of RAM, sometimes when I'm reading a .pdf on the Files app and then switch to another app, when I come back to Files the .pdf is closed and I lost the page I was on it. I'm now using the PDF Expert app just to read my .pdf files, it's frustrating to have to use a third-party app just to read a .pdf because the iPadOS native app is very bad.
I got a 27-page .pdf full of photos from a local restaurant where I live, when I try to look the .pdf on the Files app on my iPad Pro if I scrool up and down too fast the .pdf closes itself or go to the first page itself. But if I open the same .pdf on the Books app, I don't have this issue, it's strange, the pdf viewer should be the same in both apps.
I guess if I had a 8GB RAM 2021 iPad Pro I would still have issues with it. Unfortunately I don't see Apple trying to fix the iPadOS issues.
Well, it’s fun to speculate. Unfortunately, that has nothing to with the reasons why I am pausing on a Mini 6.
Heat dissipation is huge for me, so if the underclocking of the A15 prevents some overheating, great. The actual weight is also a deciding factor as a 7.5 gram difference doesn’t seem much lighter than the Air.
Some of it is speculation some not. The logic is flawed as the iPhone 13/Pro has an A15 but the body of the device is smaller than the iPad mini 6. Maybe the Air 5 will have the same chip as the iPhone 13 Pro to provide an edge over the mini 6, but you are also comparing an 8.3” display size to a 10.9” display size with one being more portable and easier to hold in one hand edge-to-edge, the Air does not have this advantage. If you are considering the Air it makes more sense to jump to the Pro 11” tbh.
The iphone 13 needs a faster peak clock speed to compensate for its poorer thermal design which makes it throttle more.
There. Solved it.
I fail to see the reason for Apple to do this. Unless it's to discourage some cannibalization of the iPhones by the cellular models of the mini. But even that seems dumb. If anything, I'm going to want more processing power in the device that is large enough for me to do more with.
The mini has more processing power. The peak frequency may be more in the iphone, but the sustained frequency is certainly more in the mini.
That's not a tablet, it's a dual screen phone. It's still Android, so I'd be better off just buying a real Android tablet, Samsung makes some nice ones. I'd much rather have a full Windows tablet but in the smaller 7-8" range. Yeah I get that iOS is aggressive in shutting down apps, I was just confused by the users on here who are saying they rarely or never see this happen as I see it happen all the time.
That's odd, that we are having such different experiences. I have a 2017 Macbook Pro with 16gb RAM and I don't see any of these issues with the News app or updating badges on Slack or email, just to name the few examples I put up. I'm also sitting here on my XS with 4gb RAM with Google Voice open and I can reproduce, every single time, when I background it and then foreground it again it shows the "G" logo then the little spinner and goes back to the home screen. I'm not doubting you, but I can't fathom why my ipad and XS are acting differently than your devices. EDIT: Playing around with Google Voice and it doesn't always refresh, but it's weird. With a freshly rebooted iPhone XS and no other apps open about 3/4 of the time I background it then foreground it, it refreshes. About 1/4 of the times it doesn't refresh.
But reading what you say I get the impression that apps refreshing isn't rare or even uncommon for you, it's just that it doesn't bother you much, which is all good and fine. But maybe because I'm used to a full OS like Windows on my Surface Pro the refreshing drives me nuts. I mean 6 tabs in a browser, that's not really asking for much and is a really low bar to set, and I am not even sure that's the low bar where iOS refreshes itself but I suppose that would depend on the webpage. I can do plenty of multitasking on a tablet, in particular when I had my Galaxy Fold (which has a smaller screen than the ipad mini 6) it was incredibly good for multitasking, but then it has 12gb RAM.
But again I'm being cautiously optimistic here and will see when my ipad mini 6 gets here. If it does the same refreshing crap I may have to consider an Android tablet, or move up in size to a Surface Go.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I can't replicate that in GV when I background it and then bring it back on this "antique" 1GB RAM Mini 2. However, I'm confident this is probably as simple as what else we each have open and running. My typical slate of open apps is only Mail, iMessage and GV. I only open Safari when I want to browse. I use other apps when I need them and generally focus my use of them at the time vs. jumping app to app. I close apps when I'm done using them. I'm guessing you have more stuff open than that and that stuff- whatever it is- is eating up your much more abundant RAM... causing iOS to often flush your GV app so that it must reload when you come back to it.
There's definitely different perceptions in play here. For example, I see Surface as much more "full PC" than "tablet." So I would expect Surface to function more like Mac than iPad. I see iPads not as "full computers" but as a satellite tool for Macs. Yes, they can do lots of computer-like things but they are not keyboard-less Macs. When I need full multitasking and/or need to use many apps and many tabs, I go to Mac for that. I don't expect an iPad to be able to juggle all that as well.
And of course, give tech more working space (RAM) and it is going to be able to keep more stuff in memory. I'm right with any consumer who wishes that more of the dollars spent on Apple stuff would buy tech elements instead of flow to the bottom line. I certainly wish this Mini 6 had even more tech benefits than it does. For me, I wish it had the best iPhone cameras, iPhone bigger storage options and retained the 3.5mm audio port.
This thread is full of 2 gripes: "not enough upgrade" and "too expensive." With Apple margins paramount to Apple, there's no way to resolve both of those. If they juiced this into iPad Mini 6 Pro, it would be much more expensive. If they keep this competing for "bargain" iPad as it has in the past, it would have less tech specs than it does. I'm first in line for iPad Mini X Pro if there is ever one... even at what would probably be pricing 30-50% HIGHER than this one. But I bet if Apple had also rolled out iPad Mini 6 Pro at well over $1000- where it would be priced if PRO iPads were "mini'd"- the "too expensive" crowd would simply be LOUDER... many of which- ironically- will then be found over in iPhone 13 threads gushing at how "lucky" they were to be among the first to pay considerably more for a maxed iPhone Max.
However, my contributions here are mostly in conflict with the implied concept that THIS "latest & greatest" mini is going to be "constantly" reloading pages and losing places in apps. I don't experience "constant" reloads in 1/4 the RAM on a relatively ancient iPad Mini. Yes, if I open many things that eat RAM, I WILL experience that. But I simply work within the tech I have. I have computers with gigantic RAM and Hard Drive space. However, if I want to run something that needs more than those specs, I don't expect it to handle it well either.
With computers, I can add RAM and storage when I need more. With iPad, I work within the limits of the technology already maxed out on delivery. The "fix" is in how I use one vs. the other. One can be expanded to handle whatever I want to throw at it. The other is rigidly locked and thus needs me to limit/manage what I throw at it.
Else, what's the right specs? If it came with 8 GB and M1X, someone would say it needed 16GB and M2. Needing 6 tabs open would become needing 12. Needing 6 RAM-hungry apps to flip through would become 12. And then THAT iPad would be "underpowered." If it came with 16GB and M2, someone would whine that it doesn't have 32GB and M3. 12 would be 24 tabs and apps and THAT iPad would be "underpowered." And Apple pricing of such marvels would be relatively insane vs. the price of this 6, so the whine would simply shift to price instead of specs for those who think it has what they want in it.
I look forward to the arrival of the new 6. It IS the best iPad Mini ever. I rode a Mini 2 for about 7 years and it still works pretty well. I expect this 6 to deliver 4-6 great years before I buy a Mini 10 or maybe iPhone Fold 3 or whatever "it" is in 2026-7. Since I use this as my "phone" (with buds) too, I just got my new "iPhone" and "iPad" for less than $900 and won't need to refresh my wallet to buy new models for maybe 4-6 years. Cell service is less than $100 per YEAR for my purposes (wifi covers most phone needs most of the time). So while I can grasp how people can see this as "too expensive," through my own lens, I see an incredible (relative) bargain... much like the Mini 2 was all those years ago.
There's definitely different perceptions in play here. For example, I see Surface as much more "full PC" than "tablet." So I would expect Surface to function more like Mac than iPad. I see iPads not as "full computers" but as a satellite tool for Macs. Yes, they can do lots of computer-like things but they are not keyboard-less Macs. When I need full multitasking and/or need to use many apps and many tabs, I go to Mac for that. I don't expect an iPad to be able to juggle all that as well.
And of course, give tech more working space (RAM) and it is going to be able to keep more stuff in memory. I'm right with any consumer who wishes that more of the dollars spent on Apple stuff would buy tech elements instead of flow to the bottom line. I certainly wish this Mini 6 had even more tech benefits than it does. For me, I wish it had the best iPhone cameras, iPhone bigger storage options and retained the 3.5mm audio port.
This thread is full of 2 gripes: "not enough upgrade" and "too expensive." With Apple margins paramount to Apple, there's no way to resolve both of those. If they juiced this into iPad Mini 6 Pro, it would be much more expensive. If they keep this competing for "bargain" iPad as it has in the past, it would have less tech specs than it does. I'm first in line for iPad Mini X Pro if there is ever one... even at what would probably be pricing 30-50% HIGHER than this one. But I bet if Apple had also rolled out iPad Mini 6 Pro at well over $1000- where it would be priced if PRO iPads were "mini'd"- the "too expensive" crowd would simply be LOUDER... many of which- ironically- will then be found over in iPhone 13 threads gushing at how "lucky" they were to be among the first to pay considerably more for a maxed iPhone Max.
However, my contributions here are mostly in conflict with the implied concept that THIS "latest & greatest" mini is going to be "constantly" reloading pages and losing places in apps. I don't experience "constant" reloads in 1/4 the RAM on a relatively ancient iPad Mini. Yes, if I open many things that eat RAM, I WILL experience that. But I simply work within the tech I have. I have computers with gigantic RAM and Hard Drive space. However, if I want to run something that needs more than those specs, I don't expect it to handle it well either.
With computers, I can add RAM and storage when I need more. With iPad, I work within the limits of the technology already maxed out on delivery. The "fix" is in how I use one vs. the other. One can be expanded to handle whatever I want to throw at it. The other is rigidly locked and thus needs me to limit/manage what I throw at it.
Else, what's the right specs? If it came with 8 GB and M1X, someone would say it needed 16GB and M2. Needing 6 tabs open would become needing 12. Needing 6 RAM-hungry apps to flip through would become 12. And then THAT iPad would be "underpowered." If it came with 16GB and M2, someone would whine that it doesn't have 32GB and M3. 12 would be 24 tabs and apps and THAT iPad would be "underpowered." And Apple pricing of such marvels would be relatively insane vs. the price of this 6, so the whine would simply shift to price instead of specs for those who think it has what they want in it.
I look forward to the arrival of the new 6. It IS the best iPad Mini ever. I rode a Mini 2 for about 7 years and it still works pretty well. I expect this 6 to deliver 4-6 great years before I buy a Mini 10 or maybe iPhone Fold 3 or whatever "it" is in 2026-7. Since I use this as my "phone" (with buds) too, I just got my new "iPhone" and "iPad" for less than $900 and won't need to refresh my wallet to buy new models for maybe 4-6 years. Cell service is less than $100 per YEAR for my purposes (wifi covers most phone needs most of the time). So while I can grasp how people can see this as "too expensive," through my own lens, I see an incredible (relative) bargain... much like the Mini 2 was all those years ago.
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Will it be an upgrade or downgrade (& how much of one) in performance from the iPad Pro 2nd Gen 11"?
Considering downsizing
Considering downsizing
Yes. There is a market for various performance levels and it's cheaper to downclock a chip than to design the 2nd chip with inferior performance. This is common practice from long ago.
Actually? Where could I find a source on that? I hope you're right! I have always had an infatuation with miniature things, I'm lugging around my 11" Pro with the Magic Keyboard and it's not all that portable
Since the iPhones 13's all got tweaked to maximize battery performance, its logical to think the same was done for the iPad mini 6. BTW some iPad mini 6 earliest deliveries are now pushed out to October 19 to November 2.
see
see
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The iPad Pro 2nd generation uses an A12Z. That’s several generations behind the A15. The mini should have at least 30% higher single core performance.
No I actually had GV open with no other apps open, after a fresh reboot. The myth that force closing apps gives more RAM is just that, a myth. Someone else on here pointed this out in more details.
I agree with your thoughts on the iPads and their limitations, but I realize that some on here can successfully use them as full PC's, more power to them. Where I get frustrated is when iOS is actually sub par when used as a consumption device, or dumb tablet as I like to call it. Things like this refreshing, no user accounts, etc all rear their ugly heads. At least in my experience those are issues with most apps I've run, I can only assume I'm more sensitive to these things. I see these things on a daily basis with a 4gb RAM iPhone, much less my iPad mini. But anyway I don't want this to go off topic.
I don't think the specs need to be much higher. The vast majority of Windows computers run just fine with 8gb of RAM, I really don't see anyone except a true power user complaining about that. I do agree that it's not too expensive, it's a very nice tablet otherwise and has great specs otherwise, it just should have had more RAM.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Again, I can't replicate that on this Mini 2 with only 1GB RAM. GV open and current texting session displayed with a few photos just sent to me in that session on screen. I hit the home button for the home screen, then take a look at Music app, then Mail, then Settings and then I click GV and it looks as I left it (no reload of any kind).
So, to tax it (to try to eat up more RAM), I open Safari and load Apple.com, which has a LOT of images these days. I scroll to the bottom of Apple.com to be sure all of the images display on this page. This means I have 6 apps open now.
Then, again, I click home button, choose the Music app, home button, Mail, home button, Settings, home button, iMessage and then home button, GV and the exact same open texting session (with images showing) pops right up- no reload of any kind.
Pushing harder, I open News too. And Maps and display the Map in Satt view. I have 8 apps open that seem like they should each want a fair chunk of RAM. I display each:
I also expect that those 1-second reloads (presumably cached) will get slower if would open a bunch of complicated web pages in tabs in Safari or maybe run a big game app that needs big data, iMovie with many assets, GarageBand with a complicated set of tracks, etc.
BUT, if I use it more typically as I use it, I'll have only a couple of apps open at once and GV doesn't seem to reload when I access it... or perhaps I just don't notice because the reload is fast. Even with the above load, I don't have a sense of "constantly" reloading. Perhaps if I started doing something in an app, then cycled through all of that and returned to the app, it might/prob reloads and maybe I lose my place. But how I deal with that is just finish what I start before I jump to something else in some other app.
One more thing I wonder is what would happen if I had LOTS of cached texts in GV and iMessage? Maybe if I had LOTS of them with many being lengthy and holding lots of images, perhaps that would make this 1GB RAM have to reload like you describe. I only have 10-20 text conversations open at any given time. When they get lengthy or image loaded, I tend to close them and then start a new conversation with those people.
Else, I'm at a loss. Based on my own experience, I would expect 3GB or 4GB RAM to be abundant memory based upon how I use iPads. And if I had EVERYTHING closed and a fresh reboot and only had 1 app opened- GV and flipped to the home screen and back, I would NEVER expect GV to reload unless perhaps I had LOTS of text conversations stacked up or something like that.
All that offered (mostly for others viewing this thread and worried that this 4GB new Mini is going to "constantly reload pages and apps"), I certainly would have welcomed more RAM in this new 6 too. But based upon how I use iPads, 1GB RAM (and I think only an A7 brain) seems to work well, so I think 4GB (and A15) will be spectacular (for my ways of using iPad).
So, to tax it (to try to eat up more RAM), I open Safari and load Apple.com, which has a LOT of images these days. I scroll to the bottom of Apple.com to be sure all of the images display on this page. This means I have 6 apps open now.
Then, again, I click home button, choose the Music app, home button, Mail, home button, Settings, home button, iMessage and then home button, GV and the exact same open texting session (with images showing) pops right up- no reload of any kind.
Pushing harder, I open News too. And Maps and display the Map in Satt view. I have 8 apps open that seem like they should each want a fair chunk of RAM. I display each:
- Safari, Apple.com and scroll to the bottom to be sure all images on that page right now are loaded. Now this page reloads but VERY quickly- maybe 1 second to display all. I presume cached vs. a fresh reload because it seemed too fast to be fetching the full page again from scratch.
- Home button, then Maps opens the SATT map as I just left it- no reload at all
- Home button, then News opens with the stories and images as I just left it- no reload at all
- Home button, Music, no reload- list of music as I just left it
- Home button, Mail, no reload- message I just viewed fully displayed
- Home button, Messages, reloads but VERY quickly- maybe 1 second to display message list
- Home button, Google Voice, displays the text communication as I left it EXCEPT one of 2 images in the current text reloads (pretty quickly).
I also expect that those 1-second reloads (presumably cached) will get slower if would open a bunch of complicated web pages in tabs in Safari or maybe run a big game app that needs big data, iMovie with many assets, GarageBand with a complicated set of tracks, etc.
BUT, if I use it more typically as I use it, I'll have only a couple of apps open at once and GV doesn't seem to reload when I access it... or perhaps I just don't notice because the reload is fast. Even with the above load, I don't have a sense of "constantly" reloading. Perhaps if I started doing something in an app, then cycled through all of that and returned to the app, it might/prob reloads and maybe I lose my place. But how I deal with that is just finish what I start before I jump to something else in some other app.
One more thing I wonder is what would happen if I had LOTS of cached texts in GV and iMessage? Maybe if I had LOTS of them with many being lengthy and holding lots of images, perhaps that would make this 1GB RAM have to reload like you describe. I only have 10-20 text conversations open at any given time. When they get lengthy or image loaded, I tend to close them and then start a new conversation with those people.
Else, I'm at a loss. Based on my own experience, I would expect 3GB or 4GB RAM to be abundant memory based upon how I use iPads. And if I had EVERYTHING closed and a fresh reboot and only had 1 app opened- GV and flipped to the home screen and back, I would NEVER expect GV to reload unless perhaps I had LOTS of text conversations stacked up or something like that.
All that offered (mostly for others viewing this thread and worried that this 4GB new Mini is going to "constantly reload pages and apps"), I certainly would have welcomed more RAM in this new 6 too. But based upon how I use iPads, 1GB RAM (and I think only an A7 brain) seems to work well, so I think 4GB (and A15) will be spectacular (for my ways of using iPad).
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