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New Keyboard - Love it or hate it?
- Thread starter AZ Jack
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I have a lot of sound variation between keys.
The ones in the middle (very noticeable with F, G, H, B) make a louder, deeper noise, while those on the sides make a higher pitched clicking noise. It's a bit distracting. This is just not a very good keyboard.
I've decided that I'm still going to keep my Macbook Pro 15" 2014 model along with my 2016 Macbook pro 15" I'm just not used to the keyboard yet and USB-C and the lack of ports has me iffy. I still like it better then the 12" macbook but I'm just not ready to give up on my Retina Macbook.
The latest MacBooks (including the new Pro) have one of the WORST keyboards of any laptops available today. There is hardly any key travel - it is like typing on a virtual screen on an iPad.
These shallow keyboards may be fine for producing short blogs or articles, but not for extended work like books, scripts, theses or coding. They are not suitable for professional (PRO) use.
Think about it. The keyboard is your prime interface with the computer. Your fingers have evolved to seek a physical response from the objects they touch - especially tools. The shorter the keyboard travel, the less opportunity your finger has to gain a satisfying experience from pressing the key. There are fewer pressure calibration points. It feels more binary – like turning a switch on or off.
This feedback experience happens in milliseconds – so even if we don’t register it at a cognitive level – we certainly do feel it at a somatic, visceral level.
Apple used to make the best keyboards in the business – with a wonderful tactile feel. But the new ones are flat and unresponsive. Indeed, if you study the recent reviews, most reviewers will say something like, 'once you get used to the new keyboard, it is not so bad, and starts to feel almost OK.' Hardly a glowing endorsement.
Most people, of course, will barely notice these subtle deficiencies in their Apple keyboards. But over time, they may find that their new MacBook is no longer as satisfying to use as their older models. They may not know why – and could even blame their dissatisfaction on another factor. But for those of us who are sensitive to keyboard quality – and appreciate the dynamics involved - there is no doubt that the ultra-short travel on the new MacBook is a serious mistake.
There comes a point when a human tool reaches 'peak form factor (PFF)'. So, for example, there is no need to make knives and forks any thinner or lighter because they work best within certain size and structural limits, which are defined by the shape and strength of our human hands.
Most late generation computers are now close to the PFF. It is counterproductive for Apple to push beyond these limits simply because they can. It will backfire - and is already starting to.
The point is, Apple's obsession with thin-ness is seriously jeopardizing its products' battery life and keyboard quality. Most consumers would rather have a slightly thicker machine if it gave them more battery life, more ports and a better keyboard.
I say all this as an Apple fan - not a hater - who is a great admirer of the company. We are an Apple household with lots of their machines. But their obsession with thin-ness has got to stop – it is ruining their products.
PS: Consider this comment below from The Verge – which crystallizes the keyboard problem:
"The ultra-flat keyboard with 0.55mm key travel is also not professionally minded. Its purpose is overall thinness, but I know of no app developers, globetrotting businesspeople, or digital artists that had "more thinness" anywhere near the top of their priority list of MacBook Pro improvements. Professional writers might have asked for more tactile response, not less, and Apple's keyboard alterations seem to primarily serve to optimize and harmonize its design rather than enhance any functionality."
Amen.
PPS: Re the survey at the beginning of this forum, if you add up all the people with a problem with the new keyboards (including the noise factor) it is 40% - a very high figure.
Note: I corrected 'The Worst' terminology, as I obviously have not tried every keyboard on the market. Apologies for the hyperbole - my emotions obviously got the better of me.
These shallow keyboards may be fine for producing short blogs or articles, but not for extended work like books, scripts, theses or coding. They are not suitable for professional (PRO) use.
Think about it. The keyboard is your prime interface with the computer. Your fingers have evolved to seek a physical response from the objects they touch - especially tools. The shorter the keyboard travel, the less opportunity your finger has to gain a satisfying experience from pressing the key. There are fewer pressure calibration points. It feels more binary – like turning a switch on or off.
This feedback experience happens in milliseconds – so even if we don’t register it at a cognitive level – we certainly do feel it at a somatic, visceral level.
Apple used to make the best keyboards in the business – with a wonderful tactile feel. But the new ones are flat and unresponsive. Indeed, if you study the recent reviews, most reviewers will say something like, 'once you get used to the new keyboard, it is not so bad, and starts to feel almost OK.' Hardly a glowing endorsement.
Most people, of course, will barely notice these subtle deficiencies in their Apple keyboards. But over time, they may find that their new MacBook is no longer as satisfying to use as their older models. They may not know why – and could even blame their dissatisfaction on another factor. But for those of us who are sensitive to keyboard quality – and appreciate the dynamics involved - there is no doubt that the ultra-short travel on the new MacBook is a serious mistake.
There comes a point when a human tool reaches 'peak form factor (PFF)'. So, for example, there is no need to make knives and forks any thinner or lighter because they work best within certain size and structural limits, which are defined by the shape and strength of our human hands.
Most late generation computers are now close to the PFF. It is counterproductive for Apple to push beyond these limits simply because they can. It will backfire - and is already starting to.
The point is, Apple's obsession with thin-ness is seriously jeopardizing its products' battery life and keyboard quality. Most consumers would rather have a slightly thicker machine if it gave them more battery life, more ports and a better keyboard.
I say all this as an Apple fan - not a hater - who is a great admirer of the company. We are an Apple household with lots of their machines. But their obsession with thin-ness has got to stop – it is ruining their products.
PS: Consider this comment below from The Verge – which crystallizes the keyboard problem:
"The ultra-flat keyboard with 0.55mm key travel is also not professionally minded. Its purpose is overall thinness, but I know of no app developers, globetrotting businesspeople, or digital artists that had "more thinness" anywhere near the top of their priority list of MacBook Pro improvements. Professional writers might have asked for more tactile response, not less, and Apple's keyboard alterations seem to primarily serve to optimize and harmonize its design rather than enhance any functionality."
Amen.
PPS: Re the survey at the beginning of this forum, if you add up all the people with a problem with the new keyboards (including the noise factor) it is 40% - a very high figure.
Note: I corrected 'The Worst' terminology, as I obviously have not tried every keyboard on the market. Apologies for the hyperbole - my emotions obviously got the better of me.
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Not at all like typing on a screen. Typing on a screen lacks positive feedback whereas the new keyboard has a very satisfying one.
There is enough feedback in my opinion. Your fingers just have to grow sensitive to it. It doesn't need to have 'pressure calibration points' (although I am not sure exactly what you mean by that). It is a computer keyboard remember ? Not a piano ...
Yes. Because, you know, it actually is a switch.
Because this is the essence of human nature, over time, you are far more likely to adapt to it than for your initial dissatisfaction with it to grow ! And that is not a bad thing. After you adapt to it you'll start reaping the benefits it has to offer: economy of movement, precision, speed and less fatigue over hours of use.
Well, there is ... I absolutely love it and I am not alone feeling that way.
It can't be over emphasised: keyboards are very personal. As I have posted above I absolutely love it and I hate when I have to use any other keyboard now. But I cannot speak for the average person. My musician's fingers are very capable and sensitive and adapted to it right away. As any musician knows, after a period of extensive practising you feel that everything is suddenly a lot easier with your instrument. I had the exact same feeling of effortless fluency and easiness the very first time I used this keyboard. And it only grows on me.
EDIT:
My only gripe with the new MBPs keyboard is the lack of a real ESC key. I really miss it. The virtual touchbar one just doesn't cut it..
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Dear ntndkrds,
As a guitarist, you would be used to pressing your fingers on strings against strets, which are flat and hard. Therefore, you would actually be quite accustomed to a flatter key experience. I play the piano and am more sensitive to keyboard travel - and I really notice the loss of travel in the new MacBook keyboards.
As you say, it is a subjective issue. But a large number of professional reviewers, writers and users have expressed legitimate concerns about the new MacBook keyboards.
It is easy to understand how this problem happened. For there is absolutely no doubt that Apple has designated 'thin-ness' as a strategic priority over other factors. It has become a corporate obsession. Unfortunately, this has resulted in an unacceptable loss of keyboard travel and feedback.
As a guitarist, you would be used to pressing your fingers on strings against strets, which are flat and hard. Therefore, you would actually be quite accustomed to a flatter key experience. I play the piano and am more sensitive to keyboard travel - and I really notice the loss of travel in the new MacBook keyboards.
As you say, it is a subjective issue. But a large number of professional reviewers, writers and users have expressed legitimate concerns about the new MacBook keyboards.
It is easy to understand how this problem happened. For there is absolutely no doubt that Apple has designated 'thin-ness' as a strategic priority over other factors. It has become a corporate obsession. Unfortunately, this has resulted in an unacceptable loss of keyboard travel and feedback.
I understand what you say (a piano key's travel is enormous compared to that of the new MBPs key, not unlike a guitarist's right-hand action). I am glad that you play the piano because the only tip I can give to people not liking this keyboard can only be expressed in musical terms. How would you play a moderate to fast tempo, pianissimo passage ?? Do you lift your fingers very high above the keys and drop them ? Or do you keep them hovering just above the keys, almost touching them and provide minimal (but controlled) action to get the sound you want ?? That's exactly how this keyboard should be treated...
Hope this helps !!
Best Buy has the 13" touch bar models on sale for $1649.99 so I decided to take the plunge and get the space gray version. I was not a fan of the MacBook keyboard when I tried it at the Apple Store. However, the 2nd get butterfly keyboard is better. I think this will grow on me and it is pretty easy to type on. I also do like that each key is backlit.
I would agree with your whole spiel about the importance of the keyboard, but your claims are all hyperbole. "WORST keyboard of any laptop available today" based on "hardly any key travel"? I guess if you rank keyboards based on key travel, you are right. Also, not sure why you feel so strongly about this, or if you've spent significant time on this keyboard. Although there is virtually no travel, there is enough and more importantly, the feedback is the best I remember. I've always preferred high travel, mechanical keyboards, and this is as close to that feel as I've experienced on a laptop. I didn't take too much time to get used to it either. It was loud at first, but now it's quiet and fast. All other keyboards feel mushy and loose now. Sure, it may not be for everyone since keyboards are personal, but for someone who always prefers clicky keyboards, this is pretty dang good. If you prefer high travel mush, then it's not for you. "WORST keyboard available"? No. It's probably in the conversation for the best. You'll have a hard time getting consensus on any other keyboard because they are all the same and don't stand out. This one is unique and so advanced and would be in the conversation. I guess like many innovations, people won't fully appreciate this until some time passes. Also, if you get all your guidance from The Verge, good luck to you hipster. I qualify as a "pro" and so do many users on MR. I guess they don't know a single one of us. Even if you count the noise people in your dislike group, majority still love the keyboard. Not quite the "worst" keyboard ever.
it's awesomelicious ! i even learned 10 finger typing and it's terrific 
amazing!
p.s.
looks like i like it...
amazing!p.s.
looks like i like it...
I didn't think my late '08 MBP keyboard was spongy...until I typed on the new MBP. It actually feels gross typing on the old keyboard now, lol.
You may not believe this but one of the main things that I loved about the macbook pro right as I tried it at bestbuy was the keyboard. I loved the feeling of typing so much that I actually already wanted one even though I have always been a windows user and preferred it. Then I realized how the trackpad actually worked how my brain imagines it "should" work. It has a nice acceleration even when it's at slower tracking speeds. It feels right and I love being able to click it wherever.
Anyways, the keyboard is so great and it's one of the main reasons I bought an Apple product at all. Now I have a Macbook Pro and an iPhone 10/X. I might get an apple watch series 4 sometime.
If I didn't like everything about the macbook pro I probably wouldn't have switched to iOS, and I never once thought about owning a watch, but I'm starting to realize that it may actually be useful for me. Apple does it right.
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I am using a 2017 Macbook pro 15 inch.
Anyways, the keyboard is so great and it's one of the main reasons I bought an Apple product at all. Now I have a Macbook Pro and an iPhone 10/X. I might get an apple watch series 4 sometime.
If I didn't like everything about the macbook pro I probably wouldn't have switched to iOS, and I never once thought about owning a watch, but I'm starting to realize that it may actually be useful for me. Apple does it right.
----
I am using a 2017 Macbook pro 15 inch.
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Well I posted in this thread years ago on page 2, since then my keyboard has died and Apple replaced the keyboard. I've documented my experience here about the whole ordeal: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/macbook-pro-keyboard.823086/
But I have the new keyboard now, since 2016 I have not been impressed with the new Macbooks so in 2018 I purchased a Razer Blade 15" I get a new laptop every 2 years. My 2016 Macbook is still alright and I didn't see a need to get a 2018 version for a refresh, although it does suck that my 2016 keyboard died on me.
But I have the new keyboard now, since 2016 I have not been impressed with the new Macbooks so in 2018 I purchased a Razer Blade 15" I get a new laptop every 2 years. My 2016 Macbook is still alright and I didn't see a need to get a 2018 version for a refresh, although it does suck that my 2016 keyboard died on me.
I'm on a 2018, coming from a 2010. I was a bit worried at first because of the noise surrounding the keyboard (excuse the pun) but I actually love it. The travel isn't an issue for me and the noise doesn't seem as bad as I thought it was going to be... but I do know they made some improvements in the 2018 models compared to the 2016 and 2017 models so I guess that may be why.