New Legislation Aims to Make it Easier for Customers, Indie Shops to Repair iPhones

[GoodWheaties]

I am not sure you get it. Miniaturization doesn't matter. The problem is Apple does not share documentation. It is much harder to diagnose and repair anything when Apple makes it a puzzle.

With documentation, independent repair shops can fix many problems that Apple won't or won't do economically. For example, my 17" MBP died. Apple quoted me nearly $1000 to repair. I managed to get board and circuit schematics and traced the problem to a tiny surface mounted capacitor. It literally cost me $0.25 to replace it. Just this week Apple quoted my cousin $1200 for a logic board replacement. I traced the problem to liquid damage in the keyboard causing the SMC_ONOFF to short. Literally a $23 repair. Without documentation there is no sane way to trace problems and identify/test/repair. In just two examples here, I showed savings of almost $2200 off what Apple Service quoted simply because I had documentation.

Apple clearly has financial motivation to hinder any means for independent repairs. The irony is that Apple does not even seem to use the documentation that it hates to share. They make no attempt to actually repair faulty parts (they throw them out and install whole new part). And with the trend towards ever more integrated components (i.e. soldered SSDs), it is going to get far more expensive to do repairs with Apple.

This really is the crux of the matter. The Apple Authorized Service Providers don't actually FIX a problem, they REPLACE the problem. So the people who have the desire, and ability, to repair things like logicboards, have to stumble around and figure out the solution on their own because Apple will not provide the schematic to them. I would feel much better about buying these "non-repairable" computers if more people were actually able to repair them versus just replacing the whole logic board. There are plenty of shops (and private people) who have the skill and equipment to do this if they just had the information.

 

[JGAN]

So how's that working out for the car industry? When was the last time you trusted the parts your car repair man put on your vehicle? Did you end up at an authorised dealer or some random?

Sorry but I prefer to see repairability as a hinderence to good design and manufacturing.

Dude, you do realize this whole bill is to ALLEVIATE that issue by forcing manufacturers to provide independent repair facilities with the SAME OEM parts and documentation?

 

[trifid]

Guys it's 1 + 1, come on.

1. Does Apple offer manual/parts to authorized repair shops? Example iPhone display screen, battery, camera. If so then those same manuals/parts would be available for purchase for individuals and indie shops. Easy.

2. Does Apple not offer manuals/parts to authorized repair shops? Example Airpods, Apple pencil. Easy, then no manual/parts need to be made available for individuals/indie shops.

 

[JGAN]

Here's another situation for all of you:

Apple has started the trend of soldering on the SSD storage onto the logic board of the computer and iPhone/iPad. Say you go on a trip to Hawaii for your daughter's wedding and take a few thousand photos on your iPhone while you're there. However, there is no wifi to back up to iCloud storage, and you're sitting by the edge of a yacht when all of a sudden you are bumped from behind and your iPhone falls into the water.

Luckily, you are able to locate and retrieve it but your device is waterlogged. It won't turn on and all your few thousand photos from your daughter's wedding are on there. What do you do??

You take it to Apple, but Apple doesn't do data recovery or repair on water damaged iPhones (sound familiar?). The only option they give you is to replace your device and lose your precious data forever.

So you call up an independent data recovery facility, but they say "sorry, we can't do it because Apple doesn't give us access to parts or schematics. If only the right to repair bill was passed, then we definitely would be able to repair your iPhone and retrieve your thousands of photos from the most special time in your daughter's life..."

This is what the issue is becoming today if we let Apple continue on the path they are already on. There should be no reason for independent facilities to have access to parts or schematics if it can save thousands of memories from a special moment. Independent facilities can offer consumers better options than the manufacturer, and it won't cost the manufacturer a single penny.

 

[darcyf]

I am not sure you get it. Miniaturization doesn't matter. The problem is Apple does not share documentation. It is much harder to diagnose and repair anything when Apple makes it a puzzle.

With documentation, independent repair shops can fix many problems that Apple won't or won't do economically. For example, my 17" MBP died. Apple quoted me nearly $1000 to repair. I managed to get board and circuit schematics and traced the problem to a tiny surface mounted capacitor. It literally cost me $0.25 to replace it. Just this week Apple quoted my cousin $1200 for a logic board replacement. I traced the problem to liquid damage in the keyboard causing the SMC_ONOFF to short. Literally a $23 repair. Without documentation there is no sane way to trace problems and identify/test/repair. In just two examples here, I showed savings of almost $2200 off what Apple Service quoted simply because I had documentation.

Apple clearly has financial motivation to hinder any means for independent repairs. The irony is that Apple does not even seem to use the documentation that it hates to share. They make no attempt to actually repair faulty parts (they throw them out and install whole new part). And with the trend towards ever more integrated components (i.e. soldered SSDs), it is going to get far more expensive to do repairs with Apple.

The reason why Apple goes whole hog on replacing rather than repairing is because in their experience something like liquid damage, for example, may have only affected component a on board a right now, which you could perhaps technically mend, but there may be other problems hiding under the surface of components b and c on board a from that liquid damage that could cause problems later on down the line, potentially spreading the damage to boards b and c...

Feel free to disagree with the logic but they would rather make sure they are rooting out the problem for good than doing what could amount to half measures that cause further problems down the line. And they know 3rd parties are often more than happy to take half measures despite the potential risks involved. People show up at genius bars all the time with devices that are bricked two weeks after getting the screen replaced by a 3rd party. Maybe with better documentation that would happen less often but it still leaves the door open for half measures and double the damage to the device.

Apple has no incentive to give a customer a bad experience. In their view, paying to have the full board replaced makes the most sense and causes the least amount of risk, therefor providing the best experience.

 

[Lightsaber]

The reason why Apple goes whole hog on replacing rather than repairing is because in their experience something like liquid damage, for example, may have only affected component a on board a right now, which you could perhaps technically mend, but there may be other problems hiding under the surface of components b and c on board a from that liquid damage that could cause problems later on down the line, potentially spreading the damage to boards b and c...

Feel free to disagree with the logic but they would rather make sure they are rooting out the problem for good than doing what could amount to half measures that cause further problems down the line. And they know 3rd parties are often more than happy to take half measures despite the potential risks involved. People show up at genius bars all the time with devices that are bricked two weeks after getting the screen replaced by a 3rd party. Maybe with better documentation that would happen less often but it still leaves the door open for half measures and double the damage to the device.

Apple has no incentive to give a customer a bad experience. In their view, paying to have the full board replaced makes the most sense and causes the least amount of risk, therefor providing the best experience.[/QUOTE

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

What's wrong with you? Where is the problem to sell genuine parts to repair shops? Why do you think anyone with a phone under warranty would not go directly to Apple?
But guess what, most phones out there are out of warranty for a long time and people just don't buy new ones only because freaking Apple wants them to.

ROFL, apple owns the parts it's their choice who sells them. Not yours frannie.

 

[Sedulous]

The reason why Apple goes whole hog on replacing rather than repairing is because in their experience something like liquid damage, for example, may have only affected component a on board a right now, which you could perhaps technically mend, but there may be other problems hiding under the surface of components b and c on board a from that liquid damage that could cause problems later on down the line, potentially spreading the damage to boards b and c...

Feel free to disagree with the logic but they would rather make sure they are rooting out the problem for good than doing what could amount to half measures that cause further problems down the line. And they know 3rd parties are often more than happy to take half measures despite the potential risks involved. People show up at genius bars all the time with devices that are bricked two weeks after getting the screen replaced by a 3rd party. Maybe with better documentation that would happen less often but it still leaves the door open for half measures and double the damage to the device.

Apple has no incentive to give a customer a bad experience. In their view, paying to have the full board replaced makes the most sense and causes the least amount of risk, therefor providing the best experience.

Sure, such logic is sound. However such a scenario is not likely. Surely one can also see the other side. Apple can charge nearly what the entire device is worth for something like logic board "repair". Which then becomes a question of replace or buy a new device. Apple has less incentive to repair.

Actual repairs done by a third party are often considerably considerably less than Apple because faults are traced to source and repaired. Usually the parts are maybe $10-20. The device is repaired for $150. In an unlucky situation you get another 3-5 years out of it before it fails again due to the unlikely tertiary obscure liquid damage that was missed by third party repair. By then the device is probably closing in on 10 years old anyway AND your third party repair saved you >$700 during that time... at that point it IS worth retiring the beast and buying a new device.

How does Apple "repair" keyboard? They replace the entire top case ($120 or so)! Without a doubt it is faster but replacing the keyboard itself is much less expensive (around $20). Even with dreaded liquid damage, Apple's repair methodology is excessively heavy-handed. Which brings me to the second issue... Apple repairs can fail to isolate actual problems and lead to replacing things that do not need to be replaced. As I mentioned earlier, I dealt with a mid-2012 MBP that clearly had liquid damage to keyboard... and would not power on with button. Apple wanted to replace top case AND logic board ($1200). Yet the logic board tested fine and had NO signs of liquid damage. The problem traced back to ONLY a short in the keyboard (essentially the keyboard was holding down the power button). This could be tested easily. Disconnect the keyboard ribbon and jump the SMC_ONOFF pads (easy to find with basic documentation). System booted up normally. This repair is literally $22.50 for parts, not $1350. Even if I missed some hidden liquid damage that might destroy the device years down the road, this is still a repair option a customer should have. (As an aside, this computer belongs to a relative... who could not believe I'd be able to repair for only $22.50... and had bought a new MBP anyway).

 

[trifid]

ROFL, apple owns the parts it's their choice who sells them. Not yours frannie.

We own the country, roads, infrastructure, etc that Apple uses to transport their goods and profit. I think it's a balance, with great power comes shared responsibility. I don't think it's unreasonable to have laws for car manufacturers provide parts to indie shops, and in the same way something like smartphones which have become so mainstream, I believe it's a balanced and fair approach.

 

[Abazigal]

Here's another situation for all of you:

Apple has started the trend of soldering on the SSD storage onto the logic board of the computer and iPhone/iPad. Say you go on a trip to Hawaii for your daughter's wedding and take a few thousand photos on your iPhone while you're there. However, there is no wifi to back up to iCloud storage, and you're sitting by the edge of a yacht when all of a sudden you are bumped from behind and your iPhone falls into the water.

Luckily, you are able to locate and retrieve it but your device is waterlogged. It won't turn on and all your few thousand photos from your daughter's wedding are on there. What do you do??

You take it to Apple, but Apple doesn't do data recovery or repair on water damaged iPhones (sound familiar?). The only option they give you is to replace your device and lose your precious data forever.

So you call up an independent data recovery facility, but they say "sorry, we can't do it because Apple doesn't give us access to parts or schematics. If only the right to repair bill was passed, then we definitely would be able to repair your iPhone and retrieve your thousands of photos from the most special time in your daughter's life..."

This is what the issue is becoming today if we let Apple continue on the path they are already on. There should be no reason for independent facilities to have access to parts or schematics if it can save thousands of memories from a special moment. Independent facilities can offer consumers better options than the manufacturer, and it won't cost the manufacturer a single penny.

Wasn't a similar argument used during the debate of whether the FBI should be able to compel Apple to unlock their phone if it were your own family member's life at stake?

Aka the old "appeal to emotion" argument. I am not against making devices more repairable, but there is a certain air of entitlement in these comments which somehow just rubs me the wrong way.

There is no law which states that losing access to thousands of your daughter's wedding photos is somehow equivalent to the end of the world and you absolutely have to get them back or else.

You have just provided an argument as to why it should be done for your own convenience and benefit, but not why Apple should have to be compelled by the law to do so. Apple makes the products, and to put it bluntly, they get to call the shots as to how they want their products to be used and serviced. If you don't like it, then don't buy their products. Go use another competing brand which does share their schematics with other companies and allow them to do data recovery (do any even exist?)

 

[Sedulous]

Wasn't a similar argument used during the debate of whether the FBI should be able to compel Apple to unlock their phone if it were your own family member's life at stake?

Aka the old "appeal to emotion" argument. I am not against making devices more repairable, but there is a certain air of entitlement in these comments which somehow just rubs me the wrong way.

There is no law which states that losing access to thousands of your daughter's wedding photos is somehow equivalent to the end of the world and you absolutely have to get them back or else.

You have just provided an argument as to why it should be done for your own convenience and benefit, but not why Apple should have to be compelled by the law to do so. Apple makes the products, and to put it bluntly, they get to call the shots as to how they want their products to be used and serviced. If you don't like it, then don't buy their products. Go use another competing brand which does share their schematics with other companies and allow them to do data recovery (do any even exist?)

Sure Apple "get to call the shots how their products get serviced" but they are not entitled to tell me how my property gets serviced. The circuit schematics are not confidential information because the circuits inside their products are in the public. It is no different than what is in an automobile or even food. I should be able to request schematics to know what is in what I bought. There is no real good reason why Apple could not provide parts... it might even be profitable for Apple.

 

[budselectjr]

There has to be multiple typos in the article. Surely this is being proposed in the EU and not America, right?

 

[ErikGrim]

You'd rather Apple sacrifice waterproofing for "repairability". Please.

 

[Sedulous]

You'd rather Apple sacrifice waterproofing for "repairability". Please.

What Apple computers are waterproof?
Yeah, I know you were referring to iPhones. Nobody said Apple has to design around repairability... and they don't. Publishing circuit schematics and selling parts shouldn't be much of a burden either.

 

[mazz0]

I enjoyed your post. Yeah, modeling amps have more complex components. Still, I come to a different conclusion. Even with a "black box" in the board, with the schematic you can at least find test points and trace faults. If the fault is a resistor or IC or whatever , they can still be checked, tested, replaced as needed. I do not need to know how the IC works internally if I can order up a replacement, fire up my rework station, and replace it.
[doublepost=1485502048][/doublepost]
Hard to summarize concisely. In most simple terms: know the symptoms, use circuit schematic to look up where fault is likely to be. Use board view to find physical location. Use test points to check voltage. Narrow it down as much as possible (ideally a single component). Complex damage is out of my league but I still think it is amazing what can be repaired.

That sounds really impressive. I'd like to be able to do that. Do you have lots of qualifications in that area that helped?

 

[Sedulous]

That sounds really impressive. I'd like to be able to do that. Do you have lots of qualifications in that area that helped?

I am completely unqualified. It is just a hobby. Other than some physics in college, I have no formal electronics education.

 

[cinq2]

If what you need is indy repair shops, then clearly an Apple device is not for you. Sometimes somethings in life are not for you. You talk with your wallet. You can march over to some other store and buy and Android device. It's that simple. You have options of which Apple is one.

Not always a question of wallet.

My gf's iPhone 6 virtually destroyed after iOS 10.2.1 (huge battery drain & gyroscope problems)
I aksed Apple Communities took it to various authorized resellers & Apple stores who all run diagnostics and all say same thing: Buy a new one. No-one offer any explanation why.

Finally I discovered an indie one man shop. The guy expained me the reason of such behaviour and how is related to a Software update and offered to fix both problems. Which he did for less than 80$

The other 'official guys' just didn't know /bother. Buy a new one. So yes, maybe you're right it is a question of wallet. I won't buy that thanks.