New Mac Mini. An appelian scandal ?

Strapontin

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 14, 2012
4
0
Hi everybody.

As a lot of people, I was awaiting for today's update, and I have to say that's it's a pity to begin with that, but it's simply to enormous to be not noticed.

Especially, my concern was about the new mac mini, as a looot of students and so on, were awaiting the update.

And here it came : New mac Mini, 2.4 Ghz dual core, 500 GB HDD, 4 GB memory, US retail price 599,- dollars.

So, as a European, I was just waiting for the price in Euro, which should be, according Apple politic, 599,- euros (even if according to today currencies rates, 599,- dollars will be 461.51 euros, and then, 599,- euros do 777.45 dollars. Basically, for the price of the first model, you have the second one in the US, but this is not what I will discuss here).

I went to diverse european online Apple stores, and I discovered that Apple mini first model was retailed 629,- euros. Not 599.
629 euros actually do 816.38 dollars.

So here, I am expecting explanations (from Apple) : for several years now, Apple has applied the 1:1 currency, 1 dollar for 1 euro, even if any change agency or the markets was showing that an aberration.
Now, Apple is selling the new Apple mini not 1:1, but even more expensive in advantage to the dollar.

Concretely, knowing that the actual US retail price of a new Mac Mini converted in euro is 461.51 euros, how did Apple explain to sell it a third more of it's actual cost in euros (629,- euros) ?


Regards,
 

Quash

macrumors regular
Sep 27, 2007
192
20
Big part of difference is tax. Here in the Netherlands we pay 21% tax. Which in Europe is included in the price. In the US it's not, you have to pay state tax on top if the 599$. Also the dollar is much stronger than it was say 2 years ago.
 

teohyc

macrumors 6502
May 24, 2007
258
113
It's not just that Apple computers are expensive. I buy stuff from Europe occassionally and their prices are just not good compared to other countries.
 

santos79

macrumors regular
Feb 25, 2009
129
0
Big part of difference is tax. Here in the Netherlands we pay 21% tax. Which in Europe is included in the price. In the US it's not, you have to pay state tax on top if the 599$. Also the dollar is much stronger than it was say 2 years ago.
In France the entry-level mini costs 629 euros ($816). Deduct the 20 percent VAT and it still costs around 503 euros ($652). Apple therefore does assume that its European customers are willing to pay considerably more than its customers in the US.
Apple's rivals such as Amazon and Google usually charge about the same in euros (including VAT) as they charge in the US (excluding sales tax). Microsoft actually is charging its French customers 489 euros (VAT included) for a surface, while it costs $499 in the US.
 

Quash

macrumors regular
Sep 27, 2007
192
20
50$ more what a schandal..

Customs charge more in Europe. Shipping from china is a little more expensive.
Apple charges 1 Europe price some countries have a little more then 20% tax
And they also build in a little bit of margin if the euro drops in value.
As apple never changes price mid cycle.

I see no reason to make these posts the euro is no longer worth 1.5$ get used to it :)
 

KiwiAus

macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2012
3
0
We have a similar situation here in Australia.

The US prices for Minis in Australian Dollars are $580 (US$599), $774 (US$799) and $969 (US$999).

The list prices from the Apple store in Australia is Australian dollars are $699. $799 and $1099.

As they have simply added $100 to the US dollar price than said that is the Australian dollar price ON EVERY MODEL it's pretty clear that the selling price has nothing to do with freight or all the other spurious excuses people like Apple give. It's simply gouging because they can.
 

Reason077

macrumors 68020
Aug 14, 2007
2,231
785
As they have simply added $100 to the US dollar price than said that is the Australian dollar price ON EVERY MODEL it's pretty clear that the selling price has nothing to do with freight or all the other spurious excuses people like Apple give. It's simply gouging because they can.
Umm... no.

The Australian price (as do the UK, Europe, NZ, etc prices) include GST/VAT/Sales Tax. The US prices do not.

OK, there is still a small difference in price even after you account for tax. But it's not nearly as much as you suggest.
 

Neodym

macrumors 68000
Jul 5, 2002
1,965
538
Also my understanding is that in Europe you get a 2 year defects liability by law (which has to be priced in) whereas in the US this seems not to exist (at least not to that extent), so it seems recommendable to get AppleCare in addition to the device price, which brings the total purchasing costs roughly up to par again.
 

Reason077

macrumors 68020
Aug 14, 2007
2,231
785
Customs charge more in Europe. Shipping from china is a little more expensive.
Not to mention... Apple's sales & support costs are higher in places like Europe and Australia. Their employees in those places get paid more, the rent on their facilities is quite likely higher.

These things add up, meaning the cost of doing business is higher in these places, which is reflected in prices. Or do you think that Apple's customers in the US should be subsidising the rest of the world?
 

LeeM

macrumors 6502a
Jan 1, 2012
603
0
they need to account for currency changes, when it goes th other way they won't increase prices. but factoring in tax in the us that can exceed 10% in some states (i think its that much) the difference isnt as much
 

NunoBerny

macrumors regular
Feb 12, 2012
195
0
Lisbon, Portugal
If you're concerned about price then Apple isn't the company for you.
That's a generic thing to say.
Unless there are different Apples for different people.
If confirmed, the differences in price are too big to just say "it's an Apple produc, I'll just shut up and pay".
 

Omnius

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2012
537
3
also the usa price does not show local tax. so the 599 usd in the state of new jersey tax is 7% so it is 42 more or 641 usd. makes the difference a bit closer.
Hell you can go to some states and pay 0 sales tax in the United States.
Alaska
Oregon
Montana
New Hampshire
Delaware

Other states have very low sales tax. There are also a number of ways to avoid (legally) sales taxes in states with sales tax, as well as some tax holidays.

The differences are degrees of socialism inherent in European tax systems as opposed to within the US.

----------

That's a generic thing to say.
Unless there are different Apples for different people.
If confirmed, the differences in price are too big to just say "it's an Apple produc, I'll just shut up and pay".
The differences are due in large part to laws about how prices are advertised and taxes.
 

paulrbeers

macrumors 68040
Dec 17, 2009
3,960
120
Seriously, how many of these threads do we need?

Please understand that many Taxes are part of the price and many aren't. In the US we pay our tax ON TOP of the cost of the unit. In Europe you pay for the tax as PART of the cost. Further, yes taking that in to consideration the European costs are still SLIGHTLY higher (usually less than 10%), but you have to remember that currency exchange rates fluctuate. Would you rather Apple changes their prices every hour and/or day?

Further let's not get into the cost of European socialism on the price of goods and services....

And the conservatives in the US complain about the cost of "US Socialism"...
 

ingram81

macrumors newbie
Oct 17, 2012
3
0
Charleston, SC
Taxes

USA! USA! USA!

:cool:

Hell you can go to some states and pay 0 sales tax in the United States.
Alaska
Oregon
Montana
New Hampshire
Delaware

Other states have very low sales tax. There are also a number of ways to avoid (legally) sales taxes in states with sales tax, as well as some tax holidays.

The differences are degrees of socialism inherent in European tax systems as opposed to within the US.

----------



The differences are due in large part to laws about how prices are advertised and taxes.
 

philipma1957

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,273
192
Howell, New Jersey
Hell you can go to some states and pay 0 sales tax in the United States.
Alaska
Oregon
Montana
New Hampshire
Delaware

Other states have very low sales tax. There are also a number of ways to avoid (legally) sales taxes in states with sales tax, as well as some tax holidays.

The differences are degrees of socialism inherent in European tax systems as opposed to within the US.

----------



The differences are due in large part to laws about how prices are advertised and taxes.
If I do what you say and bring the machine back to New Jersey I am committing sales tax fraud. Like it or not that is the plain and simple truth.
The combined population Of Alaska. Oregon .Montana. New Hampshire and Delaware is less then that of New york city about 8 million. Our country has about 312,000,000 people so under 3% would not pay sales tax. Yes there are ways to avoid on a tax holiday or a low tax zone. But I would guess under 10% of macs purchased in the usa do not pay sales tax in a legal manner. Now maybe another 10 or 20% cheat. By driving from New Jersey to Delaware or Maybe Massachusetts to New HampShire. Or order online to a seller that does not charge JR.com for example does not charge NJ sales tax. If I buy from them By law I would have to report the purchase and pay NJ or be guilty of a crime.


So before you state that europe charges higher taxes to pay for socialism don't forget that the US charges sales taxes for socialism. And in some case gives an incentive to commit crime by avoiding them.
 

alstrike

macrumors regular
Nov 13, 2011
110
35
Spain
Spanish Apple Store. €649. Not even the 629 the OP mentions. Incredible.
Dude we still have to pay for Health Care and other stuff, in the US is not free.

Need heart surgery in Spain = You don´t have to pay (you do with taxes)
Need heart surgery in the US = Either cough up 100k+ or you´re either a dead man or bankrupt.
 

TC25

macrumors 68020
Mar 28, 2011
2,201
0
Dude we still have to pay for Health Care and other stuff, in the US is not free.

Need heart surgery in Spain = You don´t have to pay (you do with taxes)
Need heart surgery in the US = Either cough up 100k+ or you´re either a dead man or bankrupt.
You have finely honed your over simplification skills.
 

alstrike

macrumors regular
Nov 13, 2011
110
35
Spain
You have finely honed your over simplification skills.
I know it´s not that simple but you get the point.

EDIT: I just looked up prices and it´s not that expensive (around 30k), but I don´t know if that covers hospital stay and treatment.
 

TC25

macrumors 68020
Mar 28, 2011
2,201
0
I know it´s not that simple but you get the point.
The point is there's no such thing as a free lunch. As bad as the current US economy is, I'll take it over the mess that characterizes many EU countries including Spain and Greece.
 

alstrike

macrumors regular
Nov 13, 2011
110
35
Spain
The point is there's no such thing as a free lunch. As bad as the current US economy is, I'll take it over the mess that characterizes many EU countries including Spain and Greece.
Me too.

Public health care is a really good thing if you have the means and money to maintain it.

The thing is that politicians in Spain have been busy taking money from real state speculators and bankers amongst other things :mad:
 

Omnius

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2012
537
3
I had no intent in sparking a political debate. Sorry.

Phillip can you link me to the NJ sales tax statute saying that if you drive to Delaware and buy a computer, you have to pay NJ tax on it?
 

philipma1957

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,273
192
Howell, New Jersey
I had no intent in sparking a political debate. Sorry.

Phillip can you link me to the NJ sales tax statute saying that if you drive to Delaware and buy a computer, you have to pay NJ tax on it?

Thank you for Apologizing And as for the link;


Well I could give me a few minutes.




(I have a degree in accounting and worked for the IRS in collections (Really bad job that I quit after 6 months or so) for a while back in the 80's while going to Queens College on the GI Bill.)

Links found


http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/su4.pdf

page 4 of above;


"Use Tax
A use tax liability may be incurred when taxable goods or services are purchased for use in New Jersey but sales tax was not collected, or was collected at a rate less than the New Jersey sales tax rate. In these instances the purchaser is liable for payment of use tax at the New Jersey sales tax rate. Thus, when taxable items are purchased from Internet retailers or mail-order catalog com- panies that do not collect New Jersey sales tax, the purchaser is required to remit the use tax di- rectly to the State of New Jersey.
Example: Frank Smith, a New Jersey resi- dent, ordered a $3,000 pool table over the Internet from a company based in another state. The company sent the pool table to Mr. Smithís home in New Jersey and did not charge him any sales tax. It is Mr. Smithís responsibility to remit use tax, in the amount of $210 ($3,000 ! 7%), directly to the State of New Jersey.

For more information about use tax, see publica- tion ANJ-7, Use Tax in New Jersey.

"


here is another pdf to read

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/anj7.pdf


BTW many other states have laws like this New York Has one.

I remember a few years ago a story out of Trenton NJ the state sent 8 cars with 2 sales tax agents to a large mall in Delaware on black friday. They copied down about 2800 nj car plates in the parking lot then sent each NJ car owner the documents from above along with a sales tax form for out of state purchases!


personally I think like the guy from spain said a few posts back there is no free lunch. you pay one way or the other.
 
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