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You can swap out the GPU's and CPU's its called buying a new computer.

So what are you saving by swapping out those critical components? The case?

The point is that you can upgrade them individually. Personally the dual fire pro cards will last me the next ten years. But in that time I may want a CPU upgrade. So $600-700 for new CPU versus $3k for a new machine in 4 or so years.

Of course it will probably be a wash because the resale value should still be decent on these in a few years. Also I have heard that the socket that the nMP is using will be replaced soon.
 
Did you even click the multi-core tabs? The multi-core is what makes a MacPro fast.

Yes I did. Hence the post I made.
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 32 Bit single core score - 3517/3244
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 32 Bit multi core score - 13205/12859
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 64 Bit single core score - 4002/3615
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 64 Bit multi core score - 15011/14467


Again, might be more to it but this is what I'm seeing.
 
Yes I did. Hence the post I made.
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 32 Bit single core score - 3517/3244
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 32 Bit multi core score - 13205/12859
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 64 Bit single core score - 4002/3615
4 core Machines, iMac vs MacPro 64 Bit multi core score - 15011/14467


Again, might be more to it but this is what I'm seeing.

You should have specified the lowest-specc'd MacPro is comparable to the best iMac.
 
You should have specified the lowest-specc'd MacPro is comparable to the best iMac.

I've tried to keep as much as possible the same. All four core machines. By the way in each case the Mac Pro processor is faster than the iMacs.
 
I've tried to keep as much as possible the same. All four core machines. By the way in each case the Mac Pro processor is faster than the iMacs.

c'mon. You made a generic statement that the new MacPro is slower than an iMac and that's barely true for only the lowest version. You tried to stir some ***** and failed. I could say, wow, even a 2009 MacPro is faster than a 2013 iMac and that would be just as true as your generic statement.
 
c'mon. You made a generic statement that the new MacPro is slower than an iMac and that's barely true for only the lowest version. You tried to stir some ***** and failed. I could say, wow, even a 2009 MacPro is faster than a 2013 iMac and that would be just as true as your generic statement.

Listen very carefully. There are some things that we don't know like RAM and graphics card. Now you find me one, just one nMP result that matches a comparable, (processor speed and core count), iMac.

As to your second statement find me a stock 2009 MacPro again with whatever you can make similar a constant and post results. Don't be an A hole.

----------

Listen very carefully. There are some things that we don't know like RAM and graphics card. Now you find me one, just one nMP result that matches a comparable, (processor speed and core count), iMac.

As to your second statement find me a stock 2009 MacPro again with whatever you can make similar a constant and post results. Don't be an A hole.

I'll answer that for you, "I can't", (loosely translated means I won't as I've been exposed).
 
Listen very carefully. There are some things that we don't know like RAM and graphics card. Now you find me one, just one nMP result that matches a comparable, (processor speed and core count), iMac.

As to your second statement find me a stock 2009 MacPro again with whatever you can make similar a constant and post results. Don't be an A hole.

----------



I'll answer that for you, "I can't", (loosely translated means I won't as I've been exposed).

I really don't know what your point is. Guess it's "don't buy a 4-core MacPro because it's too much like an iMac", except you can connect more externals and upgrade more parts and it's more transportable and you don't have to worry about a broken monitor ruining the whole thing, etc.?
 
I really don't know what your point is. Guess it's "don't buy a 4-core MacPro because it's too much like an iMac", except you can connect more externals and upgrade more parts and it's more transportable and you don't have to worry about a broken monitor ruining the whole thing, etc.?

Goodbye Laurim from Minnesota. My point is stated in the first post on this subject. I cannot be bothered to explain it.
By the way can you find any of those performance figures? .........................................Any?
 
Goodbye Laurim from Minnesota. My point is stated in the first post on this subject. I cannot be bothered to explain it.
By the way can you find any of those performance figures? .........................................Any?

anything that gets you to say goodbye is good by me. Your user name is apt.
 
anything that gets you to say goodbye is good by me. Your user name is apt.

So is yours Low rim. Use the charts to say anything you like. Get me the best stock 2009 4 core and match it with a four core iMac, then come back and see me.
 
Overkill. Apple barely makes Pro software that makes this machine is worth the cost.
 
So is yours Low rim. Use the charts to say anything you like. Get me the best stock 2009 4 core and match it with a four core iMac, then come back and see me.

My points went right over your head so I'll give up now. Next time you want to complain, kindly be more specific what you are complaining about and you won't have these kind of problems.
 
My points went right over your head so I'll give up now. Next time you want to complain, kindly be more specific what you are complaining about and you won't have these kind of problems.

No they didn't. What you still haven't done is post some results. That's the real reason you gave up. C ya.
 
No they didn't. What you still haven't done is post some results. That's the real reason you gave up. C ya.

OMG- you are asking me to provide data for something I didn't state. My example was to point out how I could make a GENERIC, BLANKET statement about MacPros vs iMacs like YOU did, but to say the opposite of what you implied. You made a generic statement using the data insulting MacPros, I made a blanket statement using the data praising MacPros. Get it now? If you wanted to complain, you should have said "It's disappointing to see that a 4-core iMac is faster than the 4-core Mac Pro" NOT "It's disappointing to see that an iMac is faster than the Mac Pro at any speed in any gear." See the difference and how misleading your original post is?

P.S. Pretty sure you get it and are just trolling me at this point.
 
OMG- you are asking me to provide data for something I didn't state. My example was to point out how I could make a GENERIC, BLANKET statement about MacPros vs iMacs like YOU did, but to say the opposite of what you implied. You made a generic statement using the data insulting MacPros, I made a blanket statement using the data praising MacPros. Get it now? If you wanted to complain, you should have said "It's disappointing to see that a 4-core iMac is faster than the 4-core Mac Pro" NOT "It's disappointing to see that an iMac is faster than the Mac Pro at any speed in any gear." See the difference and how misleading your original post is?

P.S. Pretty sure you get it and are just trolling me at this point.

Nope not trolling. My statement is part fact and it's also an opinion so like it or not, I don't care.

Your statement, "I could say, wow, even a 2009 MacPro is faster than a 2013 iMac and that would be just as true as your generic statement.". Is what I'm suggesting is balderdash.
I told you a thousand times, keep what you can as a constant and post results. In case you don't get it;
So match the number of cores, match RAM if you can, match speed of processors etc etc, if possible and then -
Find me a 2009 4 core Mac Pro assuming they make them and compare it to a four core 2013 iMac please.

This is what I have done both 2013 models, both 4 cores, both 3.x Ghz processors, SSD in both, etcetera........My post is more misleading if you only post some of it and due to that, "P.S. Pretty sure you get it and are just trolling me at this point.".
 
I know there's more to it than one test but it's disappointing to see that an iMac is faster than the Mac Pro at any speed in any gear.

I think a better question would be why the base Mac Pro costs so much more than a top-of-the-line iMac. Could it be those twin GPUs that are pointless for people other than video professionals? Could be.... Hence, it'd be nice if Apple would offer a base-line Mac Pro in the $2k range like they used to with a consumer video card. Personally, I don't need another monitor. I have plenty of 24" and 28" left from previous computers that still work fine. Given my 2012 Mac Mini is STILL 90% of the CPU power of a brand new Mac Pro 4-core in those results, it's not the CPU that lacks in other Macs but the GPUs. Make a Mac Mini with a mid-range to high-end video card for $1200-1500 and you would no longer have a massive gap in the Mac lineup. Or a consumer Mac Pro (and don't kid yourself with the name anymore, all the "Macbook Pros" are really consumer machines now) around $2k with a good video card like the old Mac Pros used to offer would suffice for many as well even with the lack of internal expansion.

Now one can argue all day long about external expansion options for all those Thunderbolt ports and whether they are worth a darn at those slow speeds compared to internal PCI, but the real problem is the lack of expansion PRODUCTS for Thunderbolt. When I bought a used 2001 PowerMac Digital Audio PPC dual 550MHz G4 in 2006 for $200 I found I could EASILY find a large bevvy of expansion products to bring it up to at least 2005 levels. I got a USB 2.0 card for $29. I got a SATA card for $40. I got a flashed ATI 9800 Pro video card for $90. I bought twin 1.5TB Barracuda SATA drives and got 110MB/sec transfer rates. Finally, I got a 1.8GHz 7448 G4 CPU upgrade for $400. So for the price of a base Mac Mini Intel Core Solo, I had a machine that could boot OS9, play all OS9 and OSX games made up until that point and had full support from Apple in the OS and software for the next two years and didn't find it getting too slow to be useful for Internet (still worked fine as a server) until around 2011 and replaced it in 2012. That's 11 years that wouldn't have lasted 5 years without expansion options.

Frankly, most CPUs are already overkill for most consumers. It is and always has been the GPU that becomes outdated first, which is one of the reasons computers had a graphics card port in the first place, so you could replace it with a faster one without having to throw out the entire computer. This new Mac Pro has connection ports that COULD support different GPU cards, but they're non-standard so it isn't some simple flash a PC card prospect like it used to be at one point. And who wants to spend $3k on a base 4-core Mac Pro when you can build a 6-core Hackintosh with a high-end gaming card for $2k or a 4-core one for $1200? THOSE are the real questions.

Apple doesn't compete. Apple doesn't WANT to compete. Apple loves people who love overpaying them and backing every move their make no matter how awful (iOS7) they might be. They no longer have Steve Jobs to innovate and it shows...daily. One can easily predict the next several years for Apple. Incremental upgrades galore and not much else. An iWatch will FAIL so they'd be better off not doing it. Unless they can get all the providers together, a "big" AppleTV offering will never happen and why would they want to support Apple when Apple has proven they will screw them over in the past by setting prices and taking a huge chunk for themselves? No, they've been burned by Apple before and don't want another iTunes debacle. Apple stupidly doesn't offer app upgrades to the existing AppleTV and so model #3 that has been unhackable thus far remains a total waste of money unless you enjoy all Apple programming. This only opens the door to more competitor sales (i.e. I won't buy the new AppleTV and will keep my Gen1/Gen2 devices and look for something else in the future unless something changes since I use XBMC more than Apple's interface at this point).

No, I'm afraid Apple is continuing to surf on the iPhone/iPad tsunami that Steve Jobs created for the company before he departed, but even the biggest waves eventually dissipate. Apple had a huge jump on Windows95 (like 10 years) with a better interface and professionals jumping on board all over the place during that time. Then Win95 came and almost killed the company. They relied too much on one thing. They are doing the same thing now. A new case doesn't make a better Mac Pro. A better Mac Pro makes a better Mac Pro. There's NOTHING better about this Mac Pro than the last one other than the incremental advances Intel themselves brought to the table (i.e. Thunderbolt and USB3 and a faster CPU set). Making your computer look like a trash can isn't magic. Making your computer do something new and innovative is magic.
 
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I give up. You'll never get my point. Or refuse to get it is more likely.

You've beaten yourself into submission is more likely.

----------

I think a better question would be why the base Mac Pro costs so much more than a top-of-the-line iMac. Could it be those twin GPUs that are pointless for people other than video professionals? Could be.... Hence, it'd be nice if Apple would offer a base-line Mac Pro in the $2k range like they used to with a consumer video card. Personally, I don't need another monitor. I have plenty of 24" and 28" left from previous computers that still work fine. Given my 2012 Mac Mini is STILL 90% of the CPU power of a brand new Mac Pro 4-core in those results, it's not the CPU that lacks in other Macs but the GPUs. Make a Mac Mini with a mid-range to high-end video card for $1200-1500 and you would no longer have a massive gap in the Mac lineup. Or a consumer Mac Pro (and don't kid yourself with the name anymore, all the "Macbook Pros" are really consumer machines now) around $2k with a good video card like the old Mac Pros used to offer would suffice for many as well even with the lack of internal expansion.

Now one can argue all day long about external expansion options for all those Thunderbolt ports and whether they are worth a darn at those slow speeds compared to internal PCI, but the real problem is the lack of expansion PRODUCTS for Thunderbolt. When I bought a used 2001 PowerMac Digital Audio PPC dual 550MHz G4 in 2006 for $200 I found I could EASILY find a large bevvy of expansion products to bring it up to at least 2005 levels. I got a USB 2.0 card for $29. I got a SATA card for $40. I got a flashed ATI 9800 Pro video card for $90. I bought twin 1.5TB Barracuda SATA drives and got 110MB/sec transfer rates. Finally, I got a 1.8GHz 7448 G4 CPU upgrade for $400. So for the price of a base Mac Mini Intel Core Solo, I had a machine that could boot OS9, play all OS9 and OSX games made up until that point and had full support from Apple in the OS and software for the next two years and didn't find it getting too slow to be useful for Internet (still worked fine as a server) until around 2011 and replaced it in 2012. That's 11 years that wouldn't have lasted 5 years without expansion options.

Frankly, most CPUs are already overkill for most consumers. It is and always has been the GPU that becomes outdated first, which is one of the reasons computers had a graphics card port in the first place, so you could replace it with a faster one without having to throw out the entire computer. This new Mac Pro has connection ports that COULD support different GPU cards, but they're non-standard so it isn't some simple flash a PC card prospect like it used to be at one point. And who wants to spend $3k on a base 4-core Mac Pro when you can build a 6-core Hackintosh with a high-end gaming card for $2k or a 4-core one for $1200? THOSE are the real questions.

Apple doesn't compete. Apple doesn't WANT to compete. Apple loves people who love overpaying them and backing every move their make no matter how awful (iOS7) they might be. They no longer have Steve Jobs to innovate and it shows...daily. One can easily predict the next several years for Apple. Incremental upgrades galore and not much else. An iWatch will FAIL so they'd be better off not doing it. Unless they can get all the providers together, a "big" AppleTV offering will never happen and why would they want to support Apple when Apple has proven they will screw them over in the past by setting prices and taking a huge chunk for themselves? No, they've been burned by Apple before and don't want another iTunes debacle. Apple stupidly doesn't offer app upgrades to the existing AppleTV and so model #3 that has been unhackable thus far remains a total waste of money unless you enjoy all Apple programming. This only opens the door to more competitor sales (i.e. I won't buy the new AppleTV and will keep my Gen1/Gen2 devices and look for something else in the future unless something changes since I use XBMC more than Apple's interface at this point).

No, I'm afraid Apple is continuing to surf on the iPhone/iPad tsunami that Steve Jobs created for the company before he departed, but even the biggest waves eventually dissipate. Apple had a huge jump on Windows95 (like 10 years) with a better interface and professionals jumping on board all over the place during that time. Then Win95 came and almost killed the company. They relied too much on one thing. They are doing the same thing now. A new case doesn't make a better Mac Pro. A better Mac Pro makes a better Mac Pro. There's NOTHING better about this Mac Pro than the last one other than the incremental advances Intel themselves brought to the table (i.e. Thunderbolt and USB3 and a faster CPU set). Making your computer look like a trash can isn't magic. Making your computer do something new and innovative is magic.

It might be a better question but it doesn't mean that a machine that's been well hyped and ages in the making can post lees impressive results than a consumer oriented unit that has worse headline specs, (on paper).
I do agree though that Apple seem to be putting too much into iDevices and not enough into enterprise and Pro equipment.
I have an ATV3, was going to buy 2 and then I saw the prices......
 
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