New Mac Pro With M2 Ultra Chip Might Launch This Spring Alongside macOS 13.3

[daveedjackson]

And just because YOU don't have to upgrade, does not mean other professionals don't. I work in IT, and we upgrade machines all the time - ESPECIALLY the RAM and hard drive (swapping to SSD, or upgrading storage size).

Have to agree here, I’ve worked with post houses and creative studios all who have the Mac Pro have upgraded ram and storage. So this claim of no one does is wildly inaccurate. No one in this business just goes out and buys a new one/ they are budgeted and agonised over. We also don’t run the latest operating systems / they are unstable. Software/plugins/extensions don’t work. We don’t just jump when something is released.

 

[ddhhddhh2]

"Pros" aren't a monolithic group, and it's thus often dangerous to make such generalizations.

At one point I used a PowerMac G5 for my research. I purchased the machine with enough RAM for the calculations I anticipated I'd need to make, and that worked fine for a couple of years. But when we decided to simulate a different class of biopolymers (something that couldn't have been readily forseen when the work started), I needed more RAM. Because the RAM was expandable, I was able to upgrade it to meet our new needs.

[The machine was used for development work—I'd make sure it the code was working on a few sample biopolymers, and then send our jobs to the university's clusters.]

University labs, especially in the physical sciences (as opposed to those being supported by large NIH grants), often have tight budgets, and we could not have afforded to buy a new machine just because our RAM needs changed. Besides, since we didn't need a new machine, just more RAM, that would have been wasteful.

Alright, it's time to let you in on the secret of what being a real "pro" is all about. Professionals at least know that RAM is non-upgradable, it's a pretty advanced new concept, ain't it? Running short on RAM? Project going over budget? Simple, just get yourself a shiny new machine! That's the attitude of a true pro. Oh, and a free piece of advice: pros never mess with opening up the box. Follow that and you too can be a real pro in no time.

 

[luvosx]

My suspicion is that they are working on a radically new processor for the Mac Pro. Call it X1. It would have 8-way/16-way/32-way/64way ultra connect with a significant graphics power to match or beat the likes of the offerings from nivida and amd. Also memory to match such configs. They also need to make a replacement board/cartridge/package config for processor upgrades. One thing is for sure. Multiprocessor configs are so 2020. Everything inside single die is the future for less power usage as well as ultra performance. Now for the cost, …

 

[Allen_Wentz]

How can you call something a pro machine if you can't even upgrade RAM? What a joke.

What do you do that makes RAM upgradability the definition of pro machine? Certainly there are a few folks who need huge RAM, but most pros will suffice fine with the 128 GB RAM already available on the Studio.

IMO we should wait to see the new MP's architecture before dissing it...

 

[Matt Leaf]

One also wonders if the design remains the same, will current Mac Pro owners simply be able to upgrade their unit to include an SoC components. Would be pretty cool and a solid commitment to their design.

 

[JippaLippa]

So what's the benefit over an M2 Ultra mac studio?

 

[genzai]

How can you call something a pro machine if you can't even upgrade RAM? What a joke.

Well... it was always a mystery (for people who actually understand the chip technology) how they were going to have an M-series based machine with upgradable RAM. The memory on the M-series is on package by design. It's one of the main performance features of the new chips. IF they had allowed upgradable RAM it would have had to be some sort of second level memory with much lower performance. Instead, some of us were just expecting the new Ultra and Extreme chips to come with very high capacity options. The biggest disappointment is dropping the Extreme chip. If true, that was the main differentiator for the Mac Pro, and the only chip that would have justified $10K+ selling points at a new performance level that left high end intel machines in the dust as well. If these latest Mac Pro rumors are true, the system is certainly less exciting than hoped for- but internal PCI slots are very important too.

g\

 

[oldwatery]

Alright, it's time to let you in on the secret of what being a real "pro" is all about. Professionals at least know that RAM is non-upgradable, it's a pretty advanced new concept, ain't it? Running short on RAM? Project going over budget? Simple, just get yourself a shiny new machine! That's the attitude of a true pro. Oh, and a free piece of advice: pros never mess with opening up the box. Follow that and you too can be a real pro in no time.

That is quite easily the most comical comment on this thread. The sarcasm is pretty funny too. I’ve been a video and design pro for 37 years using macs and I always upgrade stuff and when allowed, get inside the damn machine. THAT is what pros do. So skills, experience, abilities, etc don’t make a pro…but not opening a computer up does. Ok then.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Why do we even need 3 different desktop designs at this point if we take away expandability?
A single well-designed one could accommodate anything between M2, Pro, Max and Ultra.
Oh, that's right, marketing.

Nonsense. One needs additional engineering as one moves up in performance; not simplistically all marketing. A simple Mini driving one display won't work for heavy graphics and multiple displays that a Studio is more appropriate for (heat, ports, graphics power, etc.). And a Mac Pro is another level still. One wants the right tool for the job.

 

[mrr]

I am still trying to wrap myself around this Mac Pro with NO user upgradable RAM.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I would agree. Mac Studio is going to be a better choice for most users, except for the few niche pros, in my opinion.

No one has seen what the new MP is or what pricing choices will be available. So none of us yet know what the best choices will be.

That said, the Studio rocks, so I too expect it to be a top choice for many.

 

[DailySlow]

Look at the comment I responded to initially. You were saying this shouldn’t be called pro because of lacking upgradeable RAM. Look at the context of my post to understand why I said what I said. No it’s not a “joke” to call this a Mac Pro.

Oh...oh...there's a scuffle in the bleachers.

 

[theorist9]

I never said it isn't relevant for Pros. I just said it's more enthusiast than Pro.

Sure you did. Maybe you didn't intend to be so absolutist here, but this is what you wrote, and thus what I replied to:

Upgrading RAM is enthusiastic level not pro level.

You subsequently significantly softened your position to this:

It’s more in line to enthusiasts than a general “Professional use case of a computer”. Gamers upgrade RAM more than Pros do generally speaking. Are the lines blurred? Yes. Are there overlaps? Yes. It’s a venn diagram.

...but haven't acknowledged you've softened it.

Let me make it simple: We are aligned. Many pros don't upgrade RAM (your words) which aligns to it being more of an enthusiast action than a "Pro" action.

I'm afraid we're not aligned. Many pros don't, but many pros do. It's of interest to many in both groups. I disagree with the characterization that upgradeable RAM is more of an enthusiast thing than a pro thing.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So what's the benefit over an M2 Ultra mac studio?

Internal expansion.

Since Apple Silicon, the main difference between one system and the next is
1. Form factor
2. Storage
3. Ports

I’m expecting this to continue with the new Mac Pro, we’ll see!

 

[mdriftmeyer]

My suspicion is that they are working on a radically new processor for the Mac Pro. Call it X1. It would have 8-way/16-way/32-way/64way ultra connect with a significant graphics power to match or beat the likes of the offerings from nivida and amd. Also memory to match such configs. They also need to make a replacement board/cartridge/package config for processor upgrades. One thing is for sure. Multiprocessor configs are so 2020. Everything inside single die is the future for less power usage as well as ultra performance. Now for the cost, …

Nothing Apple has in the form of a GPU will rival AMD or Nvidia's models of today in their high end. Not at all. What they'll have is a highly optimized pipeline and software stack for MacOS and Metal. They will be specialized process units, not general process units that have to cross off a lot more check boxes and way more markets.

 

[PsykX]

Will they already kill the Studio line ?
What's the point of keeping both ? If it's just for the sake of modularity... this isn't lean at all.

 

[Fomalhaut]

How can you call something a pro machine if you can't even upgrade RAM? What a joke.

Changing your own RAM does not make you a professional; it makes you an enthusiast/hobbyist/tinkerer.

I learned long ago that time spent messing around with your computer hardware and software generally detracts from the time you have to actually use it for productive work. Sure, it can be fun and educational, but it's not work (unless your work is upgrading or repairing computers).

Upgradeable machines are also (generally) cheaper to own if you can extend the usage lifetime through updates. This is often less of an issue for professionals working for corporations that have a relatively short machine refresh period, but for private owners it can make sense.

The more interesting question is how Apple would combine two different approaches to memory management in the same machine without compromising performance (i.e. combining high-bandwidth on-package RAM, with traditional memory buses running more slowly. You would need the a memory manager than work a bit like the old Apple Fusion drives did with recent data going on the SSD and less critical data pushed to an HDD. It's certainly possible, but we'll see...

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

All of this defeats the purpose of why they made a SOC. What you're asking for is basically a more traditional PC configuration, separate CPU, GPU, RAM, HD, and all the BUS's and controllers that go with that. Again, it's a different system with M1/2.

see above.

see above. In the current build of M1/2. It doesn't allow for that. It would also make the system bigger, as explained by someone else.

The speed of the RAM apple currently developed works MUCH faster than traditional. Which is why they went with a SOC. As everything is faster, GPU memory is also almost all the system memory. Which is more than any other GPU can offer. The trade off, not expandable.

Actually, you put a whole lot of words/concepts in my mouth that I did NOT say. Let's try again...

There are a number of people in this very thread hoping for a Mac Pro with the flexibility to expand memory beyond Silicon RAM limits.

So I offered up the concept of a hypothetical Mac Pro with THREE tiers of RAM:

1. Tier 1: (as is) Silicon RAM, the fastest for the Mac
2. Tier 2: the new concept: the flexility to add traditional RAM too for those wanting or needing more RAM. Yes, it will not be as fast as Silicon RAM but it should be much faster than SWAPS (as is) with SSD storage
3. Tier 3: (as is) faux RAM via swaps in and out of SSD storage.

I have to believe that the new tier 2 would be much faster than tier 3 "as is" for those situations where the demand for RAM exceeds Silicon supply. If Silicon needs all RAM processing to happen in Silicon RAM, then this tier 2 RAM becomes much faster swaps. On the other hand, if Mac Pro Silicon can accommodate a Grand Central-like manager in macOS to allocate by RAM speed need or just big demand vs. smaller demand, then maybe macOS can intelligently decide when to use Tier 1 vs. Tier 2.

Mac Pro has always been the flexible, evolve-able Mac. Locking it down like the rest of them is moving away from what a Mac Pro- sans trashcan- has been. My Mac Studio Ultra already has an empty slot for another Apple-only SSD if Apple would sell one and adapt macOS to be able to use it. If Mac Pro is basically Mac Studio with maybe a few Apple-proprietary SSD slots, I don't see that as Mac Pro... unless we think Trashcan with just a wee bit more flexibility.

My post was simply "think different" imagining a way for a Mac Pro to not be a Studio +... giving the crowd happy with Apple lockdown what they want as well as those who want traditional Mac Pro flexility for cards, storage and much more RAM inside.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

So what you want is a RAM disk used for the swap file. There was such a thing in the Dark Days of MS-DOS that sat between the 640 K limit and the 1 MB of ram you could actually install.

Even further back you could use the RAM disk (S3, D2) in ProDos to hold small files you wanted fast. Now I've really dated myself. 😗

No actually, I'd like a Mac Pro to give buyers of Mac Pros what they want... which- for some- seems to be a Mac that can work with much more memory than the MAX that can be purchased embedded in Silicon.

Existing Mac Pro is apparently (RAM) fast enough for "big RAM" needs without a lick of Silicon in it. And it is now YEARS old technology. So I was imagining a way to bring that fast RAM option to the fastest RAM pool hard-capped in Silicon: do your most intense speed processing in Silicon RAM and shift some of the less speed-intensive RAM needs to a tier 2 of traditional RAM.

Is it possible? I don't know. Some of us are wanting big RAM. I'm simply imagining a way to scratch that itch that might still work with Silicon RAM limitations.

However, shy of that ability to have FASTEST and FAST RAM, it seems it would be a RAM speed upgrade to switch in and out of FAST RAM vs. doing swaps to the SSD. So if the best Apple could do is a fast RAM disc, then yes. If Apple is boxed into a 640K-like limit with Silicon RAM, a RAM disk-like solution may be the faster way vs. just sticking with SSD swaps.

 

[citysnaps]

That just proves the argument. Blanket “Apple shouldn’t call ANYTHING Pro unless it does X” needs to stop. Pros vary in thousands of ways. Just because it might not have upgradeable memory doesn’t mean it’s not a pro device.

Now things like PlayStation 4 Pro? I agree, pro name branding is useless here.

It seems people here repeatedly go out of their way (with blindfolds and earplugs on) thinking that Apple attaching the "Pro" moniker to a computer/iPhone/AirPods/etc means they're only made and marketed for professionals. When in fact it's about product tiering and pricing.

Apparently many here no doubt believe Apple's AirPods Pro ear buds are targeted to professional sound engineers producing music in recording studios.

 

[MisterAndrew]

So will macOS 13.3 enable eGPUs for Apple Silicon Macs? If it does then the new Mac Pro seems kind of pointless over the Studio except for internal storage expansion.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

i hope they introduce another new form factor. This time it should be a perfect seamless aluminum sphere. 2/3 of the inner workings should be dedicated to ensuring it maintains a perfectly pleasing sonic hum, and it should have no ports, power cord, or display port. It just rolls around your office or room driven by gravity alone and can just screen share to a local iPad for a display, and then that iPad can plug into an XDR Display and arrange multiple desktops and resource sharing in a new feature we’re calling Display Backgammon and…

 

[theorist9]

Changing your own RAM ... makes you an enthusiast/hobbyist/tinkerer.

I learned long ago that time spent messing around with your computer hardware and software generally detracts from the time you have to actually use it for productive work. Sure, it can be fun and educational, but it's not work (unless your work is upgrading or repairing computers).

Again, no. Please see my post here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-mac-pro-with-m2-ultra-chip-might-launch-this-spring-alongside-macos-13-3.2376624/page-5?post=31868691#post-31868691

 

[257Loner]

I will say, what is potentially confusing, and at least extremely awkward, is Apple’s naming schemes for their chips. These are the kind of confusing conversations that Apple has almost certainly caused people to have (imagine audibly):
“How many M1 Max Macs do you have?”
“I have five M1 Macs.”
“With M1 Max?”
“Um huh? Yes, M1 Macs.”

“My daughter wants an M1 MacBook Pro.”
“Ok, so M1, not M1 Pro?”
“She said Pro, yes.”
“MacBook Pro or M1 Pro?”
“M1 MacBook Pro, yes.”
“I need to know if she said Pro twice.”

Apple's marketing team will soon have us babbling Newspeak like infants. "I'd like a Pro Pro Mac Mac, Yes Yes, Thanks Thanks."

 

[svish]

Expecting to see the new Mac Pro along with other new Macs in the next few months.