New Mac Pros and Mac Minis Launching in August

[bit density]

1) I am looking forward to Minis with thunderbolt. I'll grab one when they ship. I say that as somebody that has been using Apple computers since the ][e.

2) Why do people want BluRay support in Macs? Is it to watch films, or to burn 50GB discs? I'm not being hostile, I'm genuinely curious.

As to point 2. I think that there is going to be a genuine archival need for large chunks of video that won't be well satisfied by hard disks. But I think that group will become initially satisfied by some sort of BR recorder on Thunderbolt.

The second real need is BR production. And that should be a real mac niche.

And then, yes, to watch movies. Imacs find their way into a dorm as *THE* single screen. It plays games, watches movies, plays music and accesses the internet. And BR movies are better. And as it has been pointed out, the Mac DVD player, is NOT the best DVD player out there.

 

[heisetax]

Go to the start

The last Mac Pro's were released in last August, so it hasn't been even 10 months. The ones before that were released in March 2009, that's 15 months. The ones before that were released in January 2008, that's 14 months.

So you really can't get 15-20 months average from the latest releases. Again, you need to learn how to count.

511 days is the average of a very long time. Not just the recent ones. You said "these days", meaning you are interested in Apple's more recent cycles.

Just remember that 10 months for the current model is still counting. The first Intel Mac Pro was released in August 2006 with that one, which I have & am using now, it lasted until your mentioned Jan 2008 change. That's 17 months if I take off my shoes to help me count. With this long time between changes or more commonly called upgradesI only half expect to see any change this year.
Slow upgrades was one of the reasons given for the change from PPC to Intel. But has it really worked that way. But it does mean that at least I can run Windows better, Now is that a good Mac reason.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yeah and thats the problem (more with the current Mini than the ones before):

It's segment is "screenless-laptop-design-over-function" while it should be "cheap-powerfull-worth-a-try"

Hum, that's your subjective opinion. The objective answer is The Mini's segment is Small Form Factor PCs, or more commonly, SFF PCs, a segment made popular by Shuttle back in the days. See things like the Dell Studio Hybrid.

Now if you to it's not "worth a try", it's that you're one of the people that like comparing the mini outside its segment, where it has no chance in hell to compete because the people who compare PCs outside the SFF segment don't consider Size and Weight specs.

 

[milo]

Glad to see the MP finally getting an update. Not having SATA III in the last update was pretty shameful (and USB3 would have been nice as well).

I still think Apple should dump the form factor of the mini and build a machine that's a bit bigger but uses all desktop parts, even include a second drive bay, more memory slots and make the basics user serviceable. This would give a major boost in specs at the same price if not a bit lower. Apple just dropped the ball going with laptop parts in a desktop machine and they've never had the guts to admit and correct their mistake.

And the 4/6 core MP is a misstep as well, they're using the xeon which costs more and the main feature is the ability to use more than one chip on a mother board, and putting it in a single chip config. The 4/6 core is already a different motherboard, just use i7 for it instead of xeon and save a bunch of money. This is exactly why the low end MP is outperformed by the high end iMac. I'd even argue that since the low end MP is a different mobo anyway, might as well strip it down a bit more and even give it a simpler (cheaper) case and truly make it a midrange model. Right now it is a box with midrange performance at a premium price, why not make the changes that would allow it to be priced competitively for what it offers?

 

[ericmooreart]

That's awesome. I have to be honest though, I don't see many of my photographer friends ever doing that over a single tower (because of the simplicity). If there was an easy way to stack Minis and link them (kind of like a diesel locomotive?), that might really be a knife in the Pro.

An iMac maxed out would probably do the trick in that case. Dedicated graphic chip would make all the difference. Still cheaper then a tower. Mac Pros are just way over priced

I'm hoping I can link the new Minis with thunderbolt and a router. Right now the only bottle neck is my ethernet.

 

[toddybody]

And this is precisely the market that Apple has cut out, in a conscious decision to both control the user experience and profitability. And they are not sad about it. You will either play in their world, and they make money off you, or you don't. They do not want you to play in their world, and NOT make money off you. It seems pretty simple.

Well, they have made some decent money from me

 

[milo]

I love it when people with absolutely no experience try and "correct" Apple's business strategy.

Why? Apple does a lot of things right, but you think they don't make ANY mistakes? When Apple released an ipod shuffle with no buttons, tons of people pointed out how dumb it was...and later Apple admitted it and reverted to a design like the earlier ones.

I especially love it when they don't understand that what THEY want just miiight not be what the market wants.

Is there ANY evidence that what the market wants is a tiny machine more than a machine that offers decent performance at a reasonable price? You really think if they made it a bit bigger (desktop parts) but lowered the price and upped performance, sales would go down?

...you're one of the people that like comparing the mini outside its segment...

And the reason people compare the mini to computers that aren't small form factor is because it's the only computer Apple sells in that price range. If someone is looking to buy a computer for under $800 and doesn't care about size, they will compare a PC to the mac mini. Whether that comparison is "right" or "fair" or whatever is irrelevant - but that is a comparison that is made in the real world either way.

 

[ksgant]

Apple will never grant more attention to Macs than they do now. So people should stop believing it.

iPads are the PC's of tomorrow. I don't like it either, but they are.

And after all, what more do people want for Apple to do with the Mac Pro design other than maintaining the newest generation chipsets and CPU's?

If you desperately need USB 3.0 and Apple doesn't add that option, you can buy it for 40$ as a PCI-E card. No big deal. I have one installed in my 4 year old Mac Pro right now, running without any issues.

Blu-Ray? Forget it. I think nobody in their right mind should be expecting BD support from Apple any time soon.

Yeah, that's true. Apple isn't devoting any more attention to Macs. Sure, we hear rumors...like I heard something from someone that they devoted almost half of their keynote speech to the updated OS X (think the rumor calls it Lion or something), but I didn't believe it. All of Apple's efforts are devoted to iToys. They aren't releasing any updated Macs nor care about their long neglected OS X.

Also heard this wild rumor about this Thunderhead or Thundergod or something connector. That's laughable. That has to be years and years off. This idiot actually tried to tell me that Apple has this I/O technology that sustains...get this...10 Gigabits of throughput BOTH WAYS! Bahahaha, yeah, tell me another one. Then he said that there will be connectors that you can plug in a USB 3.0 or Firewire or whatever to this Thunderman port to get those protocols. Pfft...right. Come on, Apple has abandoned the Mac...it's pretty apparent.



/end sarcasm....blatant, mocking sarcasm

 

[lars666]

This is most definitely bad advice. New computer models require updates to the OS. If Apple is releasing them with Lion there won't be a Snow Leopard version that runs on them. If you bought a system (that comes with SNow Leopard) today, you need need a copy of the restoration discs that come with it to install Snow Leopard on the system. The retail Snow Leopard package won't be new enough to have the device driver updates for your new system.

Ah, good point! Didn't think about that ...

 

[jhwalker]

Why? Apple does a lot of things right, but you think they don't make ANY mistakes? When Apple released an ipod shuffle with no buttons, tons of people pointed out how dumb it was...and later Apple admitted it and reverted to a design like the earlier ones.



Is there ANY evidence that what the market wants is a tiny machine more than a machine that offers decent performance at a reasonable price? You really think if they made it a bit bigger (desktop parts) but lowered the price and upped performance, sales would go down?




And the reason people compare the mini to computers that aren't small form factor is because it's the only computer Apple sells in that price range. If someone is looking to buy a computer for under $800 and doesn't care about size, they will compare a PC to the mac mini. Whether that comparison is "right" or "fair" or whatever is irrelevant - but that is a comparison that is made in the real world either way.

I, for one, would snap up a revised Mini in a slightly larger case (see the many mini-PCs out there for appropriate form factor) with a bit more oomph (i.e., desktop-class components) and expandability. As it is, I'll probably still buy a new Mini with at least 4GB RAM and wish for a bit more flexibility :/

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Inclusion of Blu-ray is important to very few Mac buyers.

It is a favorite talking point of forum crashers though.

 

[KurtangleTN]

I've always thought the Macbook and Mini tend to share their parts? If so why isn't an update on the horizon on that... of all the products that's by far the most outdated in my opinion. It's not even like the build quality is so good, or they have nice perks like the MBP to justify a higher price. You can get Sandy Bridge Core i5 laptops (same as in the 13" MBP) for $600-$700. A Core 2 Duo that benchmarks the way it does in 2011 for $1000 is quite a joke.

Also, I think a lower end Mac Pro with desktop i7 parts would sell, but Apple probably doesn't care. For one they like to have you sealed in. So if you're harddrive fails you have to bring it to Apple and get charged $400. Screen fails? Eh.. better off buying a new one. With a tower they lose that business. The Mini is Apple's perfect way to continue that market. You still have to pay Apple for when most things fail (hell you couldn't even upgrade the ram till the latest model), it's just the cherry on the ice cream that it's so underpowered that most people who know how to read specs will be forced to buy into the even more sealed iMac.

Inclusion of Blu-ray is important to very few Mac buyers.

It is a favorite talking point of forum crashers though.

Forum crashers = People who don't sing the praises of Lord Jobs?

 

[shurcooL]

Forum crashers = people who complain that Apple doesn't have X, Y or Z, yet if Apple had added that, they _still_ wouldn't make any purchase. Basically, they're only here to mess you up.

 

[Kusakun]

I hope the Mac Pro includes a USB 3.0 aswell

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Forum crashers = People who don't sing the praises of Lord Jobs?

That's another favorite talking point.

 

[iBug2]

Just remember that 10 months for the current model is still counting. The first Intel Mac Pro was released in August 2006 with that one, which I have & am using now, it lasted until your mentioned Jan 2008 change. That's 17 months if I take off my shoes to help me count. With this long time between changes or more commonly called upgradesI only half expect to see any change this year.
Slow upgrades was one of the reasons given for the change from PPC to Intel. But has it really worked that way. But it does mean that at least I can run Windows better, Now is that a good Mac reason.

Updates were and are up to Intel. Mac Pro's were refreshed each time Intel refreshed their Xeon chips. It's reasonable to expect an update around September since that's when Intel is said to refresh this year.

Yeah, that's true. Apple isn't devoting any more attention to Macs. Sure, we hear rumors...like I heard something from someone that they devoted almost half of their keynote speech to the updated OS X (think the rumor calls it Lion or something), but I didn't believe it. All of Apple's efforts are devoted to iToys. They aren't releasing any updated Macs nor care about their long neglected OS X.

Also heard this wild rumor about this Thunderhead or Thundergod or something connector. That's laughable. That has to be years and years off. This idiot actually tried to tell me that Apple has this I/O technology that sustains...get this...10 Gigabits of throughput BOTH WAYS! Bahahaha, yeah, tell me another one. Then he said that there will be connectors that you can plug in a USB 3.0 or Firewire or whatever to this Thunderman port to get those protocols. Pfft...right. Come on, Apple has abandoned the Mac...it's pretty apparent.



/end sarcasm....blatant, mocking sarcasm

Maybe read more carefully next time. I said Apple will never grant "more" attention than they do "now". People are hoping that some day Apple will focus all its energy on Macs instead of iDevices, which won't happen. The attention you get today is the maximum amount you may get in a year or two.

Fixed that for you.

No you didn't. iTunes store and iPod's revenue was much higher than iMac and OS X. iPod basically saved Apple. Not iMac. How fast do people forget.

It isn't at all a "financial mistake" to not include one. It is pretty ridiculous though that they don't include it as a BTO option. Watching a Blu Ray film on the IPS screen of the 27" iMac would be amazing.

It's not about BTO. The hardware isn't an issue. You can add a BD Rom to your Mac Pro. The software is an issue. As long as Apple doesn't pay the licensing fees for BD movie playback, even if you buy a BD Rom no software on OS X will decode the movie. And Apple for reasons unknown or unguessed, does't want to pay those fees atm.

 

[mjillard]

Yeah, that's true. Apple isn't devoting any more attention to Macs. Sure, we hear rumors...like I heard something from someone that they devoted almost half of their keynote speech to the updated OS X (think the rumor calls it Lion or something), but I didn't believe it. All of Apple's efforts are devoted to iToys. They aren't releasing any updated Macs nor care about their long neglected OS X.

Also heard this wild rumor about this Thunderhead or Thundergod or something connector. That's laughable. That has to be years and years off. This idiot actually tried to tell me that Apple has this I/O technology that sustains...get this...10 Gigabits of throughput BOTH WAYS! Bahahaha, yeah, tell me another one. Then he said that there will be connectors that you can plug in a USB 3.0 or Firewire or whatever to this Thunderman port to get those protocols. Pfft...right. Come on, Apple has abandoned the Mac...it's pretty apparent.



/end sarcasm....blatant, mocking sarcasm

Love the blatant, mocking sarcasm. And I am pretty sure I agree that Apple is still onboard the business of making Macs. To be fair, though, Thunderbolt is an innovation from Intel, not Apple, nor is it exclusive to the Mac platform. While I agree with you that Apple is not in the midst of an exit strategy from Macs, I do think that their attention has been divided. I just do not, however, believe that this is such a terrible thing to make technology more mobile and empower OS X with some really useful features from iOS. People on these forums are already dissing Lion as an iOS version despite the fact that it hasn't even been released yet. Why is mobility and scalability such a bad thing? I don't get it.

 

[iBug2]

Why is mobility and scalability such a bad thing? I don't get it.

It isn't. I'm actually typing these from the Paris Louvre Apple Store, I was just visiting, these guys have free ultrafast wifi and don't really mind when people sit down and use their macs. )

Anyway there are iPad 2's around, lots of them, and I have my MBP here on my lap. I have browsed the web on this MBP, and then went ahead and used iPad's. Yes the screen estate is smaller, but browsing web on an iPad is infinitely more easier, faster and fun than on a MBP.

Edit: This was the first time I actually held an iPad and used it.

 

[medazinol]

While the Xserve didn't sell very well (I sold a number of them and they are great machine) they were very limited due to Apple's insistence of going with a 1U design.
Since Apple still sells and develops Mac OS X Server (new Lion edition coming soon), the current Mac Pro and Mac mini are just stopgaps in light of the Xserve being discontinued.
I totally believe that Apple will redesign the Mac Pro to serve as double desktop and server duty. Narrowing the design to 19" and the height (I'm talking server measurements) to perhaps 3 or 4 rack U slots makes total sense. Apple can pull off the design so that they can sell a combo machine with 2 optional power supplies. LOM, lots of internal storage etc... Going to 3 or 4U solves the Xserve limitations and still gives a desktop machine the horse power and expandability pros need.
Apple should have done this years ago. Watch and see, I think my prediction will come true very soon

 

[Thunderhawks]

The Mac Pro I can see being redesigned. It's been 8 years. But the Mac Mini? That was just redesigned last year.

For the mini, since form follows function it can't be made much different if they leave the superdrive in there.

Also, they match the footprint of the time machine and Airport Extreme.

Wouldn't mind seeing a long slim very thin MacMini with the size of the keyboard. I'd actually put my keyboard on top.

 

[iBug2]

While the Xserve didn't sell very well (I sold a number of them and they are great machine) they were very limited due to Apple's insistence of going with a 1U design.
Since Apple still sells and develops Mac OS X Server (new Lion edition coming soon), the current Mac Pro and Mac mini are just stopgaps in light of the Xserve being discontinued.
I totally believe that Apple will redesign the Mac Pro to serve as double desktop and server duty. Narrowing the design to 19" and the height (I'm talking server measurements) to perhaps 3 or 4 rack U slots makes total sense. Apple can pull off the design so that they can sell a combo machine with maybe 2 power supplies, lots of internal storage etc... Going to 3 or 4U solves the Xserve limitations and still gives a desktop machine the horse power and expandability pros need.
Apple should have done this years ago. Watch and see, I think my prediction will come true very soon

That would actually be amazing. 1 design for both is exactly what Apple should do.

 

[medazinol]

That would actually be amazing. 1 design for both is exactly what Apple should do.

I've been watching Apple long enough to understand that their upgrade cycle is VERY deliberate, planned, thought out and sensical. The new Mac Pro/Server design makes total sense to a lot of IT people. Apple knows this
Discontinuing the Xserve upset a LOT of IT people but Apple is a very secretive company and their plans are only known to a few internally. If I was in charge of hardware design down there this is exactly the action I would have taken. Axe the 1U design, create a brand-new desktop/server combo to replace the aging 8 year-old G5 external case look and dimensions. I don't think there is anything wrong with the G5/Mac Pro case design but if you're going to make a change you should combine 2 duties. This is patently the obvious track they are taking. Watch and see

 

[Bafflefish]

It's not about BTO. The hardware isn't an issue. You can add a BD Rom to your Mac Pro. The software is an issue. As long as Apple doesn't pay the licensing fees for BD movie playback, even if you buy a BD Rom no software on OS X will decode the movie. And Apple for reasons unknown or unguessed, does't want to pay those fees atm.

Two words: Profit Margin (as I already mentioned). And yes, it is "about BTO". Whether it's standard inclusion or BTO, if Apple paid the licensing fee for each drive that shipped, there'd be no issue.

There's even a Steve Jobs quote from a few years back where he basically said that licensing was a damn headache or such, but didn't go into detail/back it up when people pointed out that dozens of companies paid the licensing fee easily enough.

So ultimately, it comes down to Apple and its profit margins.

 

[iBug2]

Two words: Profit Margin (as I already mentioned). And yes, it is "about BTO". Whether it's standard inclusion or BTO, if Apple paid the licensing fee for each drive that shipped, there'd be no issue.

There's even a Steve Jobs quote from a few years back where he basically said that licensing was a damn headache or such, but didn't go into detail/back it up when people pointed out that dozens of companies paid the licensing fee easily enough.

So ultimately, it comes down to Apple and its profit margins.

No, you don't understand. Apple would pay fees for each BD Rom they installed, but on top of it, they have to pay codec licensing fees to decode BD movies on OS X.

Think of it this way. Apple pays licensing fees so you can play DVD movies on your mac, even if your mac doesn't have a DVD Rom. So they are paying it for the software as well.

And yes it's about profit margins. Apple probably doesn't want BD to affect iTunes movie sales. They are already in movie selling business, so why install a competitor to it, at least that has been some people's guesses. I have no idea why they don't do it, but it'll be along the lines of the above.

And by tons of companies, I suppose you mean Microsoft. No Linux distribution can decode Blu Ray either. The only OS that supports it is Win.

 

[Atlantico]

They use it because they pay for it. Apple is paying tons of money for H.264 so you can use it on Safari or in Quicktime, same as Microsoft is paying for it and Google is paying for it for Chrome.

That's right, so Apple wouldn't have to pay more royalties to use it for BD decoding. Anyway, that's neither here nor there, because the reason for the lack of BD support on Macs can't really be financial.