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New Mac Pro's Nehalem's "hyper Threading" Is A Major Issue With Pro Tools! Read This

I unfortunately jumped feet first into getting a new rig and bought an 8-core nahalem.
But is anyone on here running Pro tools 8 LE on it?
Will it run well enough for me to just start some small projects?
I'm still only training at the moment so I probably won't be using it to anything like its fullest extent.
 
You can turn off hyperthreading on the new macs if you download Xcode and run the CPU tool.
 
Pro Tools LE now works with Nehalem Mac Pro

From Digidesign's web site

Supported Apple Computers

Updated April 20, 2009 — On March 3rd, Apple, Inc. released new versions of the iMac, Mac mini, Mac Pro and MacBook Pro. We have completed our testing and are pleased to announce that Pro Tools LE and M-Powered are compatible with these new Apple computers. For the most recent information about Digidesign products and updates regarding the qualification of the new iMac, Mac mini, Mac Pro and MacBook Pro, please check the compatibility pages at the Digidesign web site.

Pro Tools LE 8.0 for Mac OS X is officially qualified with the following:

Apple Intel-based Computers Supported with Pro Tools LE 8.0
Mac Pro
As of April 20, 2009, all Apple Mac Pro models are officially qualified with Pro Tools LE 8.0 systems
MacBook Pro
As of April 20, 2009, all Apple MacBook Pro models are officially qualified with Pro Tools LE 8.0 systems
See below for information about MacBook Pro with FireWire 800 ports only
MacBook
Models with FireWire ports only, not supported with late 2008 USB-only models
See below for more information
iMac (Intel)
As of April 20, 2009, all Apple iMac models with Intel processors are officially qualified with Pro Tools LE 8.0 systems
Mac mini (Intel)
As of April 20, 2009, all Apple Mac mini models with Intel processors are officially qualified with Pro Tools LE 8.0 systems
 
Hyperthreading and the iMac

I KNOW this is off topic slightly, but if anyone is having problems getting performance out of any database, like MySQL using Windows/BootCamp'd, turning off hyperthreading will increase performance significantly.
 
Ht

HyperThreading is 1 part Hardware and 3 parts Smoke & Mirrors.

Until a more intelligent scheduler comes around, that 'knows' how to allocate tasks based on real vs. virtual cores, HT is going to be a performance crap shoot. Over in the WoW camp, people tweak a config file to 'mask out' the HT cores, so that WoW threads only run on 'real' cores.
 
poobah said:
HyperThreading is 1 part Hardware and 3 parts Smoke & Mirrors.

Until a more intelligent scheduler comes around, that 'knows' how to allocate tasks based on real vs. virtual cores, HT is going to be a performance crap shoot. Over in the WoW camp, people tweak a config file to 'mask out' the HT cores, so that WoW threads only run on 'real' cores.
Click to expand...

Translation, please? (If John has 4 oranges and...)
 
HT or HyperThreading is just simultaneous multithreading per core. It's a way of getting one core to run two threads at the same time. Kinda like 4 basketball teams playing two different games on the same court. It's Intel's bad hack IMPO and they've (err, we've) been paying for it through compatibility issues since it's inception (mostly via cache thrashing and missing, branch mis-prediction, data dependency issues, and also some security holes). Of course we also get a 10% ~ 20% performance increase too. Intel themselves recommend disabling it in several or many cases but they could squeeze ~ 20% performance increase and at the same time only increase the die area by ~ 6% so that sold it (to their minds).

Basically they duplicated only a the processing state apparatus and left all the logic and execution resources as they were in non HT models. Switching rapidly between these two logical states allowed them to run two processes on one chip and lie to the OS at the same time - telling it there were 2 cores instead of one. As long at the OS has SMP then HT featured processors can be used. No other "special" software is needed. It's smokeless and mirrorless in that regard - completely! So really, it's one part hardware and zero parts anything else. :)
 
new mac pros getting a harlot reputation

yeah, its real troll-like to call a spade a spade and save yourself 4 grand in the process. Of course, I guess the ivory tower types have the university (taxpayer) buy the box and couldn't care less, or maybe mommy cashed out the last of her Citi stock because junior's gonna be a pro-gamer. Programming games is for winners. Throwing your life away playing them for hours daily on a 5k machine is pure idiocy.

Fact is, all the 2008 Mac Pros are gone from the apple refurbished site, and they're getting harder and harder to locate. We're going to need 8 gigs of RAM to run the next OS? You've got to be kidding me.

I think I'll get off this train now, and get back on in three years when the fallout results in a reasonably priced and worthy product line.

I havent seen a mac desktop cost 6k for a mid-range model since the mid 90s. Guess Apple hasnt seen the news and really loves to stick it to the people who actually want a tower - studio engineers, animators, and video editors, the only ones who really need the power, besides the scientists, and I imagine they're building custom. Creative types dont want to be computer repairmen. Apple's premium is supposed to mean painless, not the bugginess and bloatwear drifting towards Mustysoft. OS 10.4 is snappier and faster on a 533 ghz G4 than 10.5 on a new iMac. Something is wrong there.
However, I will say at least Apple takes their video software seriously.

Meanwhile, stay away from Premiere/Encore CS4 on the mac - its an unmitigated disaster - iMovie works better than that POS, let alone FCP. Photoshop CS3 is better than CS4. Guess software lead devs are getting as corrupt as real estate appraisers were - just going through the motions...

Yeah, its so trollish to want to get what you paid for - a transparent tool that allows you to focus on the real work instead of troubleshooting a box no geek can brag over (kind of hard when its looked the same for six years). As someone said, Apple and Linux blew their chance to kill windows, but maybe Google will do it. Meanwhile, Apple keeps telling itself its great, and it's OS is, so we have to stay with it, for now, despite the glaring lack of anything between the surprisingly useful but inadequate mini, the overpriced Macpro and the outofdate imac. What a sales strategy, screw your best customer.
 
Tesselator said:
HT or HyperThreading is just simultaneous multithreading per core. It's a way of getting one core to run two threads at the same time. Kinda like 4 basketball teams playing two different games on the same court. It's Intel's bad hack IMPO and they've (err, we've) been paying for it through compatibility issues since it's inception (mostly via cache thrashing and missing, branch mis-prediction, data dependency issues, and also some security holes). Of course we also get a 10% ~ 20% performance increase too. Intel themselves recommend disabling it in several or many cases but they could squeeze ~ 20% performance increase and at the same time only increase the die area by ~ 6% so that sold it (to their minds).

Basically they duplicated only a the processing state apparatus and left all the logic and execution resources as they were in non HT models. Switching rapidly between these two logical states allowed them to run two processes on one chip and lie to the OS at the same time - telling it there were 2 cores instead of one. As long at the OS has SMP then HT featured processors can be used. No other "special" software is needed. It's smokeless and mirrorless in that regard - completely! So really, it's one part hardware and zero parts anything else. :)
Click to expand...
I think of it as "usefull, in a limited use scenario". :p Not all code is capable of such branching, and the controller gets hung on those processes.

I've seen it on my system. It's nice when it works. Mostly useless and doesn't cause issues, but when it does, it can be a stutter, to a hung program (notably in the browser). It's not crashed the OS though (stock clock setting). OC'ed, I got it stable, but HT = disabled, so I can't say whether or not HT issues get worse as BCLK increases. No inclination to find out either... :p
 
nanofrog said:
I think of it as "usefull, in a limited use scenario". :p Not all code is capable of such branching, and the controller gets hung on those processes.

I've seen it on my system. It's nice when it works. Mostly useless and doesn't cause issues, but when it does, it can be a stutter, to a hung program (notably in the browser). It's not crashed the OS though (stock clock setting). OC'ed, I got it stable, but HT = disabled, so I can't say whether or not HT issues get worse as BCLK increases. No inclination to find out either... :p
Click to expand...
Yeah, all true and proper. Also it assists less than 1% and sometimes even slows things down, when all your cores are saturated 100%. The slowness when it happens would probably be due to poor scheduling behavior on the OS's part but the less than 1% increase is just the way HT works in those situations. I have used it both ways and done lots and lots of testing on the DELL Precision 650's that I had - which I think were 3.4GHz dual + HT. I can't remember all the details any longer but I ended up disabling it and just leaving it that way - unless I wanted a more impressive CPU Activity Graph capture that is. :D



Superlat said:
yeah, its real...
Click to expand...

Fairly excellent rant there Superlat! :)
 
With the Pentiums, it was recommended to disable HyperThreading for general use.

It seems things have not changed much.
 
cube said:
With the Pentiums, it was recommended to disable HyperThreading for general use.

It seems things have not changed much.
Click to expand...
that might be because DIGIDESIGN is retarded...

WHAT IF:
What if these 8-core hyper-threaded Macs are ahead of their time and developers of Pro Tools are either a) too retarded to develop muti-threaded support or b deliberately want to bump heads with Apple because Logic is their competitor?

I've repeatedly heard the same 3 basic arguments:
  • Apple sucks
  • Pro Tools sucks
  • Or just wait and it will play out
A lesser heard argument is that Snow Leopard's Grand Central may save the day. If that's the case, I'll buy the damn 2.26 octi-core. But if not, it's the single 2.93 quad. Where's the real truth?

I really wish I knew so I could make my purchase. I've been trying to buy a new Mac for 2 weeks but I keep hearing inconstant answers from the Mac and the Pro Tools community. $3,500 is a lot of money for me and I WILL raise hell if the newest Pro Tools doesn't work with the newest Mac Pro.

And WTF does the quad-core only support 8GB of ram when my G5 takes 16!?!?!?!
FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, WHAT MAC DO I NEED?
 
Apple Genius said:
that might be because DIGIDESIGN is retarded...

WHAT IF:
What if these 8-core hyper-threaded Macs are ahead of their time and developers of Pro Tools are either a) too retarded to develop muti-threaded support or b deliberately want to bump heads with Apple because Logic is their competitor?

I've repeatedly heard the same 3 basic arguments:
  • Apple sucks
  • Pro Tools sucks
  • Or just wait and it will play out
A lesser heard argument is that Snow Leopard's Grand Central may save the day. If that's the case, I'll buy the damn 2.26 octi-core. But if not, it's the single 2.93 quad. Where's the real truth?

I really wish I knew so I could make my purchase. I've been trying to buy a new Mac for 2 weeks but I keep hearing inconstant answers from the Mac and the Pro Tools community. $3,500 is a lot of money for me and I WILL raise hell if the newest Pro Tools doesn't work with the newest Mac Pro.

And WTF does the quad-core only support 8GB of ram when my G5 takes 16!?!?!?!
FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, WHAT MAC DO I NEED?
Click to expand...

you need a 2008 octocore, if you want to do good audio NOW.
many times have been discussed that performance gain is insignificant for audio.
its not ahead of its time, even the 8cores are "ahead" of its time in that manner, because physical 8 core has the same number of threads as the nehalem quad core. and software hasnt been properly developed for either,...
by the way, ive read that logic only uses 8 cores on new OctoCore nehalems anyway.. ;D so basically a "half" of each core is doing nothing.
or the whole cpu, dunno which core is which ;)

it does look nice when you open activity monitor and you see 16 bars, he he.... too bad it still doesnt work properly with more or less all audio software.. :)

quad takes 16gb, but only 4gb sticks. because its only 4 slots. and it has slower ram ,and worse CPU.
i really dont think quad 2009 is a big benefit over octo 2008 for audio... actually, if you ask me, its not at all.

i never had problems with ram speed, disk speed, yes... :)

i personally would get a 2009 octo, if it would work with DAW software as it should... :) but its going to take some time till i bang up this 2008 octo.
its still pretty basic, cant wait to see it what itll do in raid 0 and +4gigs of RAM ;D
 
I agree totally! I want to discuss the reasons why protools or any apps that have problems, has difficulty with HTT processors - and it's NOT the software developers, trust be. But it seems you're really looking for the bottom line here. Without any question in my mind, it is as Ploki says: the 2008 machines. With either the 2.8, the 3.0, or the 3.2 GHz processors, as much RAM as you're willing to shell out for, and either a 10,000 RPM tracks drive or a RAID0 (or both?).

Tho I have heard audiophiles object to RAID0 in the past. I'm just not sure why is all. I personally think SSD would be fine for audio but 3-Drive RAID0 using HD154UI Samsung drives is faster, the same price and MASSIVE in comparison.

So I think that makes like 10 or 15 people now that have recommended the 2008 models to you in a culmination of all your threads - if that tells you anything. ;)
 
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