New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensive and Lacking Ports

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

You CAN find systems with all of those; however, using only USB-C does allow the computer to be slimmer, because the other ports simply consume more physical space.

Slimmer == meaningless. MBP has been slim enough since 2007. If the MBP was as slim as a razor blade, how would that improve functionality? But, there is such a thing as too slim. It needs to be thick enough to have room for a real keyboard that touch typists can use. If it doesn't have a real keyboard, it might as well be a iPad.

You can easily buy an all in one adapter off of Amazon for around $30-$50 depending on what features you want and then you only need to plug in one cable to connect all of your devices AND many of them will power the Mac as well.

To start with, is there one generally available USB-C to HDMI 2.0a w/ HDR adapter out there? You know -- one that would match the HDMI input capability of my 4K TV?

Why should Apple make the adapter when the adapters they have made have been notoriously bad?

Irony?

The ports are industry standard, meaning there are already tons of adapters out there that will already work and cost as little as $10.

Be careful with cheap USB-C cables:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-roulette-power-cords

There are ones with just about every type of connection for $30-$50 and you can connect all of your devices by plugging one cable into your laptop.

Is there a portable docking station that doesn't require plugging in? Because, you know, a lot of times when i'm using those ports that won't be there, a wall plug is not handy. Using a laptop as a laptop ...

I wouldn't trust Kingston with my data. In the past, their thumb drives were terrible and still are. Their SSDs aren't all that great either and they were caught in a scandal swindling customers alongside PNY as far as their SSD goes. The only brands of thumb drives I'd use are Samsung, PNY, SanDisk and Lexar to an extent.

Source for what you are talking about? I've used plenty of thumb drives and some small form factor disk drives without any overt problems, although most of the thumb drives are very slow. I'm not sure what problems you are alluding to?

We will need dongles no doubt, but please don't forget and be confused about some things:

1) New MacBook Pro 13" and 15" offer option for the fastest CPU that is out there for notebooks, which is now Intel Skylake. Kaby Lake with TDPs of 28W and 45/47W are not even released yet, so saying that Apple could provide a faster CPU option must be a joke.

I would have preferred the Xeon E3-15xx v5 series myself, but, your point is well taken. There is always another generation out there.

3) Speaking of dongles: you can get one for $50 with all the ports you need for your late 2016 MacBook Pro, or a $50 Thunderbolt 3 adapter to connect existing Thunderbolt Display or third party thunderbolt dock, but there is no dongle that fixes terrible Windows scaling.

Good point about Windows, but, where are are all these quality USB-C dongles? Typical HDMI dongles are limited to 3840x2160 at 30 fps, a far cry from HDMI 2.0a w/ HDR. And, USB-C to DP 1.3 dongles? Not to mention, where are the USB-C to DP 1.4 dongles? The cheap dongles that everyone is writing about are just that -- cheap.

In the meantime, if I get one of these things, I will still need to plug in to various HDMI 2.0a, DP 1.2/1.3, and even DVI ports, not to mention RJ-45 gigabit ethernet, USB-A keyboard and mouse. On a daily (even hourly) basis.

 

[Mac 128]

When Steve Jobs made things thinner and ditched old tech it was to adopt something better, these guys are ditching technology in a way it makes Apple products with less usability value.

FOUR USB-C ports , FOUR, they couldn't make it 3 and 1 USB so we can at least sync our iphones?! I don't understand?

Hope Tim gets fired sooner than later, ditching usability and power just to make a PRO computer thinner, those who want a thinner computer can buy the NON-PRO model.

If only Steve Jobs would have left one ADB port on the iMac, I could have continued to use my ADB bus powered devices too. Don't get caught up in revising history. Steve Jobs would have done exactly the same thing in this case, and it is for the betterment of everyone, just as it was in 1998.

 

[dwaltwhit]

Expensive new computer becomes a little more expensive than older computer when expensive new technology added to it!

 

[sudo1996]

Yeah, PC manufacturers are slow getting rid of stuff but for sure they have always added new usb standards fast. And why would I charge my iPhone through my Mac anyways? I have never plugged my iPhone to my Mac. Literally.

Because you may need to charge your iPhone when you aren't carrying around a USB charger brick, or your desk setup just has your iPhone connected to your laptop for simplicity. Or you're an iOS developer who has purchased what's supposed to be a pro-level laptop. Seriously, there are two other MacBook lines plus iPads for you to buy if you don't care about the functionality.
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Adding an extra centimeter in depth to the MacBook Pro would have allowed a pair of USB a legacy ports (and a little bit more battery).

This is why I can't justify removal of ports for thinness. The ports don't use up much space, and it would be nicer to have a bigger battery. The laptop is already light enough, or too light in ways because the display is sometimes annoying to open, and the keyboard isn't as good as it used to be.

 

[Mac 128]

Because you may need to charge your iPhone when you aren't carrying around a USB charger brick, or your desk setup just has your iPhone connected to your laptop for simplicity. Or you're an iOS developer who has purchased what's supposed to be a pro-level laptop.
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This is why I can't justify removal of ports for thinness. The ports don't use up much space, and it would be nicer to have a bigger battery. The laptop is already light enough, or too light in ways because the display is sometimes annoying to open, and the keyboard isn't as good as it used to be.

I'm really hard pressed to imagine a time I'm carrying my MBP and its charger around and don't have my iPhone cube charger, much less a situation where someone didn't have a USB charger I could borrow, or To a lesser extent the proper cable.

Add to that, plugging the phone in for convenience only slows down charging the MBP, something I only plug in when I need to charge, so why would I want to hinder that process? And No matter where I plug the iPhone, I still need another cable, so what difference does it make if it's plugged into the wall or the MBP?

A Pro always has whatever adapters they need to apply to any situation they find themselves in. USB-C is the future. I'd expect a pro to replace all of their own gear with USB-c native, and have all the adapters and cables they need to interface with any client they might have.

 

[SmokeyX]

So my Macbook Pro 15 inch model from Late-2013 has the same exact Intel Quad-core i7 as the newest released Macbook Pro 15 inch model ... BUT OMG OMG OMG I CAN PUT EMOTICONS IN MY PROFESSIONAL WORK MUCH EASIER.

The processor in your Late 2013 BMP is the Haswell chipset. The new version is SkyLake. Not only does the newer processor have about a 25% faster bus speed it does so using less than 25% of the energy of the previous chip and is an 8 thread per core processor whereas the older chip was only 4 per core.

Just because it says it's an i7 with the same clock speed doesn't mean that it's the same.

 

[sudo1996]

A Pro always has whatever adapters they need to apply to any situation they find themselves in. USB-C is the future. I'd expect a pro to replace all of their own gear with USB-c native, and have all the adapters and cables they need to interface with any client they might have.

Pros (and students) carry around whatever they need, but they'd prefer not to need to carry so many things.
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So my Macbook Pro 15 inch model from Late-2013 has the same exact Intel Quad-core i7 as the newest released Macbook Pro 15 inch model ... BUT OMG OMG OMG I CAN PUT EMOTICONS IN MY PROFESSIONAL WORK MUCH EASIER.

Wait, the new ones have Skylake.

 

[TallManNY]

So you don't find it ludicrous that you have to use an adapter to connect the *current* iPhone to the *current* MacBook Pro?

Also, if they were removing ports, why didn't they remove the headphone jack then?

No I don't find it ridiculous. I suspect I plug my iPhone into my Mac about once every two months. I suspect that is about the same for many others. And for small percentage of folks who do this more often, they can buy a $10 USB-C to Lightning cable.

And the jack was removed from the iPhone because (A) space and (B) the iPhone is a mobile device and cords on your headphone is more of pain when you are mobile. The laptop is (A) not as space constrained and (B) is used almost entirely in a seated, stationary position where a cord on your headphone is less of an issue. Also professionals are more likely to need the better sound quality of corded headphone.

 

[sudo1996]

It's $50 more than my identically spec'd 2014 when you factor in inflation.

I would call these new rMBPs overpriced for the specs, but none of them are spec'd identically to your 2014 rMBP.

 

[dan110]

 

[MacOG728893]

It's that they do a clean break. You don't buy something today based on standards that come up within 5 years. You buy it based on immediate needs and changes that are likely within the next year or so. It's also not a given that usb c will win. It's just likely. Apple stuck 4 thunderbolt ports on the mac pro, yet within two years they started drifting towards usb c.

That's why I said I understand why people are upset. If I was running the company I probably would've done something differently. Apple on the other hand has always done this so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise whether it's something people like or not.

Throughout the past, Apple has always removed things quickly ahead of the rest of the industry. It's definitely hard for the first few years but eventually the rest the industry follows suit.

Comparing USB-c and thunderbolt is like comparing apples and oranges. No consumer PC manufacturers ever licensed or took thunderbolt seriously. USB however is a Universal serial bus and is going to be the standard regardless of what you think.

Believe me, I have a retina MacBook and just the other day, I went to plug in a flash drive because I needed to transfer a file quickly, but I was unable to. So I've definitely encountered my own issues with not having these ports available, however, that's the way technology is heading.

 

[apusateri]

hdmi build in but yes, I have adapters for dvi and vga of course but rarely need any of them since hdmi is standard at most places I'm at.

So really one more adapter, then, right? That doesn't sound like a terrible inconvenience, but maybe I'm being naive. FYI - there's an adapter that I have that goes from USB-C to HDMI which also allows USB-C power and an "old" USB connection.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

If only Steve Jobs would have left one ADB port on the iMac, I could have continued to use my ADB bus powered devices too. Don't get caught up in revising history. Steve Jobs would have done exactly the same thing in this case, and it is for the betterment of everyone, just as it was in 1998.

Actually, in 2007/2008, you could get an MBP with magsafe, gigabit Ethernet, DVI-D w/ support for VGA, 34 cardbus, multiple USB-A USB 2.0 ports for your aux keyboard and mouse, 17" 1920x1200 display with matte finish, and both Firewire 400 and 800. Oh, and, a battery that could be swapped. So, yes, it actually did support both old and new, had all the ports you wanted built right in except for the VGA dongle required when using lame VGA projectors. If only Apple would just update that form factor instead of silly super-slim sculpture they insist on now.

 

[apusateri]

Actually, in 2007/2008, you could get an MBP with magsafe, gigabit Ethernet, DVI-D w/ support for VGA, 34 cardbus, multiple USB-A USB 2.0 ports for your aux keyboard and mouse, 17" 1920x1200 display with matte finish, and both Firewire 400 and 800. Oh, and, a battery that could be swapped. So, yes, it actually did support both old and new, had all the ports you wanted built right in except for the VGA dongle required when using lame VGA projectors. If only Apple would just update that form factor instead of silly super-slim sculpture they insist on now.

I think the point here is that Apple is always going to be pushing the envelope on this stuff, and removing ports that a lot of people still need before they've had a chance to switch things over. They removed the SuperDrive (to increase thinness, I believe, too) before people were ready for that, too, and I remember a lot of complaints there. Doesn't seem like that big of an issue any more.

Apple isn't forcing anyone to adopt these new laptops if they aren't ready. If you can't carry around adapters, or upgrade your devices to USB-C (if possible), then don't buy one - but in a few years (or whenever USB-C becomes ubiquitous, I'm not trying to predict anything) these machines will be available.

For everyone else that is ready to adopt the newest technology, it's available right now.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

No I don't find it ridiculous. I suspect I plug my iPhone into my Mac about once every two months. I suspect that is about the same for many others.

Strange. I plug mine in every few days.
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I think the point here is that Apple is always going to be pushing the envelope on this stuff, and removing ports that a lot of people still need before they've had a chance to switch things over. They removed the SuperDrive (to increase thinness, I believe, too) before people were ready for that, too, and I remember a lot of complaints there. Doesn't seem like that big of an issue any more.

I thought that removing the drive was a good thing. But, they should have added a second hard drive slot instead of making it thinner.

Apple isn't forcing anyone to adopt these new laptops if they aren't ready. If you can't carry around adapters, or upgrade your devices to USB-C (if possible), then don't buy one - but in a few years (or whenever USB-C becomes ubiquitous, I'm not trying to predict anything) these machines will be available.

For everyone else that is ready to adopt the newest technology, it's available right now.

Or, in an alternative view, Apple made a mistake and let a good-looking visual design outweigh the beauty of having the most functional, user-friendly design.

 

[thekev]

That's why I said I understand why people are upset. If I was running the company I probably would've done something differently. Apple on the other hand has always done this so it shouldn't come as much of a surprise whether it's something people like or not.

Throughout the past, Apple has always removed things quickly ahead of the rest of the industry. It's definitely hard for the first few years but eventually the rest the industry follows suit.

Sometimes the rest of the industry follows. Other times things remain niche items. You may recall firewire. It lacked the cpu overhead and spikiness of usb, and some people found it indispensable for that reason. It never became a mainstream thing. The mac pro received a number of thunderbolt ports. That never caught on strongly anywhere. Now they're moving to usbc, but they went with all usbc at least a couple years ahead of mainstream products.

I guess I find it awkward that Apple tries to predict these things, then donglifies* everything else.

* render onto dongle the devices that are now legacy devices

 

[apusateri]

Or, in an alternative view, Apple made a mistake and let a good-looking visual design outweigh the beauty of having the most functional, user-friendly design.

Well, whether or not it's a mistake is debatable at this point. We'll have to wait and see how the sales look - if enough people are more interested in having a lighter-weight pro with more/only future-proof ports vs. a more "functional" laptop, then calling it a mistake may be premature. Apple, I'm certain, realizes that there are competitor products that have all the functionality that they're removing - but they're banking on enough customers being willing and able to make the switch.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Apple, I'm certain, realizes that there are competitor products that have all the functionality that they're removing - but they're banking on enough customers being willing and able to make the switch.

They are banking on the fact that more functional machines from, say, HP, run Windows, which few Mac users prefer to run, except perhaps via bootcamp in order to play the occasional Windows-based game.

 

[CraigN]

View attachment 669065

You'd need an adaptor for that USB connector...

 

[MacOG728893]

Sometimes the rest of the industry follows. Other times things remain niche items. You may recall firewire. It lacked the cpu overhead and spikiness of usb, and some people found it indispensable for that reason. It never became a mainstream thing. The mac pro received a number of thunderbolt ports. That never caught on strongly anywhere. Now they're moving to usbc, but they went with all usbc at least a couple years ahead of mainstream products.

I guess I find it awkward that Apple tries to predict these things, then donglifies* everything else.

* render onto dongle the devices that are now legacy devices

There one of the only companies that can do that and not lose major sales. I would think we're fortunate enough to have a company pushing us forward even though it's difficult through the transition.

 

[and 1989 others]

Through a bout of nostalgia I'm currently using an 'obsolete' macbook air. It got retired 12 months ago in favour of a MacBook pro. I must say the keyboard on this device is far superior to its counterpart. It's a joy to use.
(aside from the battery which has been destroyed by being left in a cupboard for 12 months - a pentalobe screwdriver kit and £30 replacement battery will have this final mid 2012 mac book air, as god as new before the end of the year *heds a tear*)

 

[Greymacuser]

This sums up everything wrong with this new macbook.

 

[thekev]

There one of the only companies that can do that and not lose major sales. I would think we're fortunate enough to have a company pushing us forward even though it's difficult through the transition.

That's my point. They don't know for sure whether something will catch on. If it doesn't, you don't have a real solution either now or later.

 

[iisdan]

Apples pushing cords out of the picture, isn't this obvious?

 

[sudo1996]

This sums up everything wrong with this new macbook.

You're forgetting that Europe and possibly other countries include their sales tax (or VAT) in the prices while the U.S. does not, and that makes a bigger difference than you'd think. Try subtracting sales tax before you put it through the exchange rate. I haven't checked in a while, but last time I checked, it came out even with U.S. prices.

What's definitely wrong is that it's more expensive everywhere now, U.S. or not, for similar hardware.
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They are banking on the fact that more functional machines from, say, HP, run Windows, which few Mac users prefer to run, except perhaps via bootcamp in order to play the occasional Windows-based game.

IDK if this is a good bet to make, if that's what they're doing. People choosing between a Mac or an "other" laptop for school or a new job aren't married to Mac yet, and they'll fall either inside or outside Apple's ecosystem, depending on whether the Mac satisfies their needs. I don't know anyone who actually wants to use Windows unless their tasks require it, but they use it because they can't stand Apple hardware.