New MacBook Pro Has Better Keyboard Than 12-Inch MacBook, But It's Expensive and Lacking Ports

[melendezest]

I am a Pro (for one more week), and I see nothing about the new MBP that would keep me from getting the job done, and I would not need a lot of dongles to do it.

Some will need adapters for various tasks, but I expect very few will need more than a couple. As for those adapters negating the weight and slimness savings, when you pull out your MacBook Pro on an airplane, or when you take it to a meeting, or when you work in your hotel room, you probably won't need to use the adapters at all.

Well, it seems like there is plenty of people on these forums that disagree with you. I feel the truth is that this machine is less capable and a step backwards to what came before, in many ways, including the cost (and thus perceived value) for many of us.

But the bottom line is, if the machine works for you, and you can afford it, then there's nothing to be said that will change your mind.

It's your money, after all.

I would not throw my hard-earned money at Apple for this. No way. I hope that many do the same, so they finally get off their high horse and start giving us the best machines out there, like they used to.
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I'm sorry, what we're all of these transitional machines of which you speak?

From my recollection, Macs have always included the mostly single function/purpose ports required for existing equipment, and when the new single function port came along that offered more versitility or performance the old port was removed. Apple had to offer several ports because there wasn't one that did it all -- until now.

That is an interesting observation. You could be right.

I guess the problem is mine:

I chose to believe that they had a mix of ports because it was convenient to the customer.

But now we know the truth:

Apple is, and always has been, Apple-centric and anti-customer. Frak the customer and what he needs/wants. You'll use what we tell you, when we tell you.

Thank you for the epiphany.

There is just no substitute for macOS out there right now.

But seriously, I can't wait until I don't need Apple anymore. The more I think about my history with them, and the times I've had to retool my workflow and infrastructure to fit what they put out, I realize I'm starting to HATE the company, and that's bad when this happens to long-time customers like myself. I no longer recommend Apple products to my family and friends, like I used to. We often mock the company, it's ridiculous keynote videos and Jony Ive voiceovers.

Apple computers were the first computers I ever wanted. I was DIEHARD, all-Apple, for decades. But I'm really sick of this keep-away (the things I want) game.

I really need to hurry up and buy a PC, and rip the band-aid off. I know it'll hurt, but I think I'll be OK.

 

[Sensamic]

Anyone else that has tried the new keyboard v2 on store can comment if it's any better or still the same as the MacBook?

 

[Greymacuser]

More reasons to be annoyed with Apple.

I hate windows. Mac OS will always be better. However, Apple's lack of foresight and innovation are getting insultingly ridiculous when the company that brought us so many bad OSs just made a machine that makes a graphic professionals like me wish Apple was thinking more like Microsoft.

 

[mrkenta]

Just out of curiosity does anybody know how much the 2013 rMBP originally cost?

 

[ThomasM]

"For example, the cable that lets you charge your iPhone in the MacBook Pro will cost you $25. Yikes."

I've just bought a $1500+ computer. $25 is yikes? Seriously. Get a grip.

It's fine and dandy that $25 is a small amount compared to the initial $1500+, doesn't make it less frustrating. It's supposed to be a pro model.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

As said about a hundred times to all the moaners, Kaby Lake isn't out until next year...

Erm... What's the name of the processor in this laptop called?

 

[RamGuy]

The stupidity/absurdity of the ports is the only reason I didn't order one.

Keep the headphone jack out of the iPhone but leave it in the Macbook, continue to use the garbage known as Lightning in iPhone rather than USB-C....do they just roll dice and arrive at these nonsensical decisions?

How is Lightning considered garbage? How can one praise USB-C, but hate Lightning at the same time? They are pretty much doing and supporting the exact same specifications? The only difference is size and the fact that USB-C supports charging up to 100W, while Lightning has no documented upper limit.

I do have to agree that Apple has painted themselves into a corner here. They have managed to create fragmentation within their own ecosystem when going all-out on USB-C, and USB-C only on their Mac's at the same time as they stick with Lightning and Lightning only on their phones and tablets.


It's not a huge problem, but as soon as they got rid of the headphone-jack on the iPhone you are bound to get into trouble. The fact that you can't use the supplied Apple EarPods that comes with the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus with your brand new MacBook 12-inch or MacBook Pro 13 or 15-inch 2016 models is just wrong.

I do understand why Apple don't want to get rid of Lightning on their iOS-devices. It's not that long time ago they moved from the 30-pin to Lightning so doing another move already is bound to piss-off customers. And the move to USB-C does not provide any technological advantages. USB-C on the iPhone and iPad won't do anything different or add anything new over Lightning. And Apple will loose all control, they will loose all capability of controlling and ensuring that whatever third-party cable and accessory you connect is certified or not.

But at the same time, they need to resolve the mess that is the headphone-jack. They need to have a solution for non-Wireless users and their solution with the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus was Lightning. That's okay, but then they should have added a Lightning-port on the new Mac's as well. A Lightning-port on the Mac would have made perfect sense. You would be able to use your Lightning headphones with your Mac (not at the cost of the headphone-jack, due to the size of the Mac they could have kept the headphone-jack and still managed to add a Lightning-port as well) and you would also be able to use all your existing iPhone and iPad dongles with your Mac.


But as Apple have decided to not go with Lightning on their Mac's, there is only one logical solution. They should go with USB-C on their next iPhone. If they aren't committed enough to add a single Lightning-port to all the Mac's, well then they should go the other way around and go with USB-C on iOS devices as well. They should not be allowed to "double-dip" their way through this. Either you makes sure that all your Lightning accessories is supported on all your products, including the Mac or you make sure that USB-C is on all your products.

For Apple to keep double-dipping on accessories and dongles, one set for your iOS devices and another set for your Mac's is beyond stupid if you ask me.

 

[dannys1]

Erm... What's the name of the processor in this laptop called?

It's not the U series that the MacBook Pro's use. Come on guys this stuff is easy. There are different series of all these processors, the only kaby lake out that any Mac uses is the m-series (renamed by Intel to i5 and i7 to make it more confusing) that the MacBook would use. All this info is right here on the site if you just search Kaby lake and look at the time scale for when the U and H series for MacBook Pros are out - it's March next year and even then there are questions of the GPU's.

 

[skitidetdu]

Sorry, thought you were talking about the inconvenience of carrying them around, not buying them, in your original post. That's what I took from "jerking around with" in your post here:

Well that to. I just don't like the hidden cost that comes with the mac nowadays: adapters, 3rd party docks etc. Another example. I have an universal audio apollo thunderbolt 2 interface. I had to buy a thunderbolt cable for $50, now I need to buy an adapter for that cable when I upgrade my mac in the future. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a universal standard with one connector for everything like Apple is pushing for now but we're not there yet. And won't be for many years.

 

[Rigby]

I chose to believe that they had a mix of ports because it was convenient to the customer.

Your previous post was right, the Pro machines always had a practical assortment of ports, redundant or not. For example, the previous MBP had an HDMI port even though you could use the Mini-DP/Thunderbolt ports with an HDMI adapter instead. They probably did that because they know that "pros" often use these machines to give presentations, and usually only HDMI and/or VGA connectors are available in conference rooms. Today, it seems making the device 2mm thinner and saving a few pennys is more important for them than everyday usability.

 

[-hh]

I would say it is a macbook semi pro, even with the touch bar thingy...

FWIW, what I've not noticed anyone really zooming in on is that said "Touch Bar Thingie" is not really for enhancing our conventional / traditional workflows as an F-Key replacement.

It's for Apple Pay fingerprint validation. Period. Anything else is mere window dressing.

As such, this product really isn't the Mac Book Pro,

...it's the Mac Book ApplePay.


-hh
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I am a Pro (for one more week), and I see nothing about the new MBP that would keep me from getting the job done...

I see a "see no impediment" as not the question a Pro (including myself) would ask.

Instead, mine is: "If I make this capital expenditure, how does it enhance my workflows?"
If it doesn't enhance, then there's no reason to buy it.

Sure, sometimes we have to gimp some pieces together to make certain things work, but philosophically, our tolerance level for putting up with BS is inversely proportional to how much $$ we're spending.

-hh

 

[theSeb]

It's fine and dandy that $25 is a small amount compared to the initial $1500+, doesn't make it less frustrating. It's supposed to be a pro model.

And it has TB3 and USB-C, which are pro features. I don't see the problem.

 

[doelcm82]

I see a "see no impediment" as not the question a Pro (including myself) would ask.

A Pro (including myself) would ask that question.

So there we have it. Two Pros, asking different questions. Because all pros are not the same. Not every Pro needs an optical drive to be built in, (though some "Pros" insisted that a laptop without an built-in optical drive wasn't deserving of the "Pro" name).

FWIW, what I've not noticed anyone really zooming in on is that said "Touch Bar Thingie" is not really for enhancing our conventional / traditional workflows as an F-Key replacement.

It's for Apple Pay fingerprint validation. Period. Anything else is mere window dressing.

Funny. I thought Apple Pay was the window dressing. Biometric ID is something I'd use every day, several times a day, for work or for play. Apple Pay only comes in if I'm shopping on the internet. If online shopping is something you do a lot more often than I do, then that would explain why you see it that way.

 

[Abazigal]

It's fine and dandy that $25 is a small amount compared to the initial $1500+, doesn't make it less frustrating. It's supposed to be a pro model.

And...?

This kinda reminds me of the people who paid top dollar for an iPhone, then complained about having to pay $1 for whatsapp.

 

[Scrivener]

20% increase + a need for dongles to attach any older connectors such as usb. Those in the UK and Europe received a heftier increase.

Virtually double the cost in Australia - and the Aussie dollar will only buy 75c US.
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I am surprised so few people in this thread mention RAM and the graphics card. 16GB is max on ANY MBP. Will actual pros be be able to use this as their primary computer?

Not with the wooden plank keyboard. Pros use their keyboards all day every day - but they won't with the keyboard - it is simply impossible to type on. Ever typed for nine hours straight on slab of marble - that's the new butterfly keyboard. No way - no how.

 

[dan110]

No I don't find it ridiculous. I suspect I plug my iPhone into my Mac about once every two months. I suspect that is about the same for many others. And for small percentage of folks who do this more often, they can buy a $10 USB-C to Lightning cable.

And the jack was removed from the iPhone because (A) space and (B) the iPhone is a mobile device and cords on your headphone is more of pain when you are mobile. The laptop is (A) not as space constrained and (B) is used almost entirely in a seated, stationary position where a cord on your headphone is less of an issue. Also professionals are more likely to need the better sound quality of corded headphone.

No, it's not the same. I plug my phone into my laptop and/or desktop almost daily. That's almost every single day ... with the exception of Sunday. I know many others that do something very similar.

 

[thekev]

Just out of curiosity does anybody know how much the 2013 rMBP originally cost?

It depends on configuration. 2015's base 15" model was $2000 in the US. It used integrated graphics, which isn't bad in a Mac considering the prevalence of gpu failure in past Macs. The original 15" rmbp from 2012 started at $2200. Apple lowered the starting price when they released a model with integrated graphics only.

If you want to know about the 13" version, google it.

Virtually double the cost in Australia - and the Aussie dollar will only buy 75c US.

You guys always get screwed on electronics. Even when the Australian dollar is close to parity with the US dollar, electronics cost way more there. I just looked it up. I don't know how Apple Strores stay in business there.

 

[TallManNY]

No, it's not the same. I plug my phone into my laptop and/or desktop almost daily. That's almost every single day ... with the exception of Sunday. I know many others that do something very similar.

Why do you plug your phone into your laptop/desktop? Is it just to charge? If so, that is fine. Personally I like to keep the charging cables off my desk. But in any case the solution for this year is to just buy a USB-C to lightning cable. They cost $10 off market or $19 if you want to buy it from Apple. It is no big deal. Next year the iPhone and iPad will likely ship with a USB-C cable and you will be quickly swimming in those cables.

And if you think that you shouldn't have to buy a new cable, then you don't get how things have to actually change so that things can change. Apple can't make every piece of tech perpetually backwards compatible. There has to be a moment of change. The USB-C is a superior port than the USB-A one. It is great that the MacBook Pro uses it instead of wasting space with an old port that will soon not be used.

 

[-hh]

Funny. I thought Apple Pay was the window dressing. Biometric ID is something I'd use every day, several times a day, for work or for play. Apple Pay only comes in if I'm shopping on the internet. If online shopping is something you do a lot more often than I do, then that would explain why you see it that way.

I see eCommerce as a "puck is heading", and if we ask the question of how to decrease customer friction to online purchases (be they Apple Store or Amazon), to not have to pull wallet, type in credit card data, etc ... as well as being more secure (and getting a cut) ... then Apple Pay on a Mac makes all too much sense strategically.

 

[doelcm82]

I see eCommerce as a "puck is heading", and if we ask the question of how to decrease customer friction to online purchases (be they Apple Store or Amazon), to not have to pull wallet, type in credit card data, etc ... as well as being more secure (and getting a cut) ... then Apple Pay on a Mac makes all too much sense strategically.

I'm not saying Apple doesn't see ApplePay on the laptop as a source of income. But they could have put an iPhone-like TouchID sensor in the power button. They wouldn't have to re-write their software to provide context-sensitive menu functionality into the slick OLED display. They wouldn't have to encourage some of their biggest third-party software vendors to do the same. They wouldn't have to come up with APIs to allow other developers to take advantage of it. They did a lot of work they didn't have to do just to put ApplePay on the MacBookPro.

What I object to is the absolutism:

It's for Apple Pay fingerprint validation. Period. Anything else is mere window dressing.

You look at the entire touch bar and are willing to say that none the other functionality counts for you. The only thing that interests you is the ApplePay.

 

[-hh]

What I object to is the absolutism:

You look at the entire touch bar and are willing to say that none the other functionality counts for you. The only thing that interests you is the ApplePay.

"counts for me"?

Sorry, but you're grossly misinterpreting what I wrote. I'm NOT fawning over ApplePay.

I'm being cynical. That's why I called all of the other things it can do as "window dressing".

Analytically, what Cook/Ive has done is merely to replace a dozen keys with a single panel, which drives down touch labor costs in manufacturing ...

... but contemplate the hidden cost (trade space) that this has resulted in: the life of a software programmers just became harder because they now have a super-minimal iPad in addition to a Mac to contemplate - - it is more work now on their part to support that additional UI/display within their App.

Sure, we're going to see Apple use it in their OS and home Apps so as to "showcase" it, but consider too just what the history of the F-key row has been over the past 25+ years and what (and just how few)3rd Party apps actually bother to use it. Similarly, what users employ that part of their UI.

From a user perspective, the question ultimately is if it enhances their workflows (more productivity).

And sure, Apple Pay is an example, and a reasonable one ... but the rest? I don't think that it is particularly promising, particularly if we ask how the conceptual replacement is meaningfully differentiated from legacy hardware F-keys.

FWIW, part of the problem that F-keys always had was that they were nominally beyond the convenient reach of the fingers for a touch-typist. As such, it forces the user to pause to look down to find the F-key to stab it, whereas with conventional touch typing, one can crank out 60+wpm without even seeing the keyboard.

Similarly, consider the one use case example of putting a set of mini-pictures in the touchbar so that one can swipe along to find an image - - - just how was this done in the legacy solution, and does this change now mean that the operator is going to lift their hand off of the mouse/touchpad to physically move the hand use a different UI device? That's problematic from a productivity standpoint.

And here's the key question:

What makes this new solution compelling in comparison to the prior UI solution?

If you can't clearly & cleanly articulate that, you're probably not providing an actual UI enhancement. As such, we're back to window dressings on an oversold "feature".

 

[libmanj]

Anyone else that has tried the new keyboard v2 on store can comment if it's any better or still the same as the MacBook?

I went into an Apple Store tonight to try typing on one for just that reason. I found the butterfly 2 keyboard quite improved over the butterfly 1. It has noticeably more travel and better feel. I actually found the MacBook keyboard seemed to hurt my hands a little after a small bit of typing. The new MacBook Pro didn't seem to hurt my hands. Then again, I only typed on each of them for a few minutes. So I guess I would say I'm pleasantly surprised, though I think I still prefer the previous generation of MacBook Pro's keyboard feel a bit better.

 

[Naimfan]

Anyone else that has tried the new keyboard v2 on store can comment if it's any better or still the same as the MacBook?

I agree with libmanj, above. The keyboard on the new MBP is better than the original butterfly keyboard. It is still nowhere near as good feeling, to me at least, as the keyboards on my 17" MBP, or either of my 15" rMBPs (one of which will go to a new home shortly).

 

[Bananas Ananas]

Anyone know if the butterfly keyboard in this MacBook Pro is more reliable than those present in MacBooks? My MacBook has been repaired multiple times due to faulty keys, and would like an upgrade if the keyboard is more reliable.