New MacBook Pro Models Lack Optical Audio Out via Headphone Jack

[OcelotWreak]

I too am shocked by the loss of everything from MagSafe to Ethernet port (those two I find especially useful), etc.

However, I wonder if we could look at it from a software perspective, rather than just thinness, hardware costs and weight tradeoffs. WHAT IF it turns out that macOS will be a lot more stable by standardizing on just USB-C ports, rather than all the other only somewhat useful TOSlink and SD card slots, etc.? Surely it must require a lot more OS maintenance to maintain all the low level drivers and other software shims that have to talk to all those odd hardware ports. Perhaps (just perhaps), our systems will be a lot cleaner and more stable going into the future with One Port That Rules Them All.

Or am I just wishful thinking?

 

[dilbert99]

Does any of the r-mbp have all of those?

DVD drive? No...

Network port? My mbp doesn't have one.

SD slot - I don't have one of these on my current pro.

RAM - has been soldered for a long time.

Soldered hard drive? I read two conflicting stories on this but personally, rather the laptop be smaller. I respect your opinion here though.


Headphone jack - wrong discussion thread. Maybe you should head over to the iPhone board.
[doublepost=1478623603][/doublepost]

Do they actually have space in the laptop to add those? I ask because I really don't know.

USB c to hdmi dongle can be bought for less than $10 on amazon.

Perhaps I have been a mbp customer longer than you?
Just pointing out over time what Apple had taken away from me.

I have two mbp's in the house.
The earlier one has the network port, replaceable ram, DVD...

As for headphone jack, was relevant to me stating that Apple continually takes away things I use.

Not directed at you but not sure what the fascination is with smaller. Yes I think the mbp is one of the best looking out there. Yes this is attributable to its small size, but couldn't they trade a couple of mm for removable ram and ssd?

To me weight of a device is not linear to its size. I have seen small and light and small and heavy. I'd love a light device and don't care too much about the size.
[doublepost=1478644076][/doublepost]

I too am shocked by the loss of everything from MagSafe to Ethernet port (those two I find especially useful), etc.

However, I wonder if we could look at it from a software perspective, rather than just thinness, hardware costs and weight tradeoffs. WHAT IF it turns out that macOS will be a lot more stable by standardizing on just USB-C ports, rather than all the other only somewhat useful TOSlink and SD card slots, etc.? Surely it must require a lot more OS maintenance to maintain all the low level drivers and other software shims that have to talk to all those odd hardware ports. Perhaps (just perhaps), our systems will be a lot cleaner and more stable going into the future with One Port That Rules Them All.

Or am I just wishful thinking?

I'd say wishful thinking. When you write code, you 'modularise' it so that one part does not affect another.
[doublepost=1478644232][/doublepost]That's what I meant by network port. Every time I go to think of the Ethernet port I draw a blank for some strange reason

Don't forget the ethernet port. That connection has a lot of utility. Way more useful to me than Bluetooth or WiFi. YMMV.

 

[kwikdeth]

Well, they should've kept HDMI since it does more audio codecs. I understand that Optical caps out at 5.1.

depends on what is being transmitted. newer standards like TrueHD cannot handle that, but regular old dolby digital does 7.1 over optical just fine.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Problem for me is that they have taken out lots that I use.

• Ram now soldered ($300+ to add 8gb ram, never again)
• SSD now soldered??
• no MagSafe
• No sd slot
• No USB-a
• No network port
• No DVD drive (but no biggie cos I didn't use it often but had to purchase an external one to rip dvds for kids)
• No hdmi port
• No head phone jack (phone)

My rMBP had an accident yesterday so now need to look for a replacement.

Apple's business strategy has shifted to shafting.

 

[hleewell]

If USB-C is going to be the de facto "One Connector to Rule Them All" I think we have to seriously accept this temporary growing pain

 

[DavidDoyle]

Searching for mini jack components in the internet you can easily find out that the normal mini jack and the one with optical interface are exactly the same size...

I believe they would be too - or only marginally larger, not enough to affect size/weight. I believe it's purely a cost exercise.

It would be good if you could provide links to examples? I couldn't find any but not sure what I should be searching for....

 

[dilbert99]

If USB-C is going to be the de facto "One Connector to Rule Them All" I think we have to seriously accept this temporary growing pain

Going to but didn't need to, they could have added some usb-a

 

[nextuser]

The "pro" range is not about giving people choice. In fact there is a logic that exists in software that favours being "opiniated" and "convention over configuration". I find it funny how software developers nowadays live by these rules but expect hardware designers not to.

The reason for opiniated design is to reduce errors and problems. The more you govern what ties to your system the less can go wrong. Apple have subscribed to that view point for decades and this laptop is furthering those aims. Ultimately apples idea of success is the lightest product with the smallest footprint and least the amount of connected devices with as few moving parts as possible. Because they feel that that gives their users the best experience.

I that in 3 yrs time we will feel that this laptop has achieved all of that and everyone will wonder what the fuss was about, just like the floppy disk removal and the same with the cd rom removal.

I am a software developer and I absolutely HATE "opinionated" and "convention over configuration" languages/frameworks. I cannot stand using Python and I am not fond of Rails. I much prefer languages like C, Objective-C, and Lisp. Sure, those languages give you enough rope to hang yourself, but if you know what you are doing, then it's a thing of beauty. Opinionated languages are not designed for experts. I really hate Swift as well for the same reason, one of the main reasons I switched to OS X was because I liked Objective C so much, but now that Apple is moving away from it to Swift, it makes my decision to never buy another Apple product easier (so long as Cook and Ive are there)

If you are going to be opinionated with your design you better be sure that you are 100% correct. I feel that in 3 years time, that might be when the Macbook Pro gets refreshed, perhaps with a slight RAM increase, if you're lucky. I'm convinced that all the good engineers and designers that were working at Apple during their ascendancy have left, and that's why things are the way they are.

 

[JamesPDX]

If USB-C is going to be the de facto "One Connector to Rule Them All" I think we have to seriously accept this temporary growing pain

And by that time USB-D will be the thing. Or maybe it'll just be called USB-F-U. I'm just not sure how thin it'll be. But that time the manufacturing and assembly may be back in the USA.

 

[threesixty360]

I am a software developer and I absolutely HATE "opinionated" and "convention over configuration" languages/frameworks. I cannot stand using Python and I am not fond of Rails. I much prefer languages like C, Objective-C, and Lisp. Sure, those languages give you enough rope to hang yourself, but if you know what you are doing, then it's a thing of beauty. Opinionated languages are not designed for experts. I really hate Swift as well for the same reason, one of the main reasons I switched to OS X was because I liked Objective C so much, but now that Apple is moving away from it to Swift, it makes my decision to never buy another Apple product easier (so long as Cook and Ive are there)

If you are going to be opinionated with your design you better be sure that you are 100% correct. I feel that in 3 years time, that might be when the Macbook Pro gets refreshed, perhaps with a slight RAM increase, if you're lucky. I'm convinced that all the good engineers and designers that were working at Apple during their ascendancy have left, and that's why things are the way they are.

And thats why we have CHOICE!
As a dev if you want have complete control and all the complexity that that entails you are welcome. You may even think you can write better code than c compiler itself! You can do that too. The point is you are informed and understand the trade off's.

The facts are that the majority of people are more productive with opinionated frameworks and development tools. You can get more done because you dont have to think about detail all the time. You just follow the convention. If every enterprise tool or website had to be written in c++ we wouldn't have an industry! It also brings in minds that are not as "bright" as yours into our field and they have a lot to give. A qualified stock market trader who can program a macro in a high level language can be a lot more useful than a computer scientist using c++ who knows nothing about trading.

Ultimately Apple is making tools for people who are not computer scientists and dont ever want to look under the hood to work out what might be wrong with their machine. They make tools for people who DO want to follow convention and opinionated work flows. That is Steve Jobs legacy. Thats the way he wanted things. And so this macbook is right in line with Job's opinion on how things should be made. I see a clear lineage in decision making from Apple products in the past to Apple products now.

Apple doesnt cater for everybody, MS does that, Google does that. Apple caters for a group of people that share the vision or people who would benefit from that simplified, paired down zen approach to things. Thats why they only ever have a small percentage of the market. And there happy being that small percentage.

 

[sracer]

The removal of features is in and of itself not necessarily a "big deal", but I think it is more of the fact that Apple didn't announce these changes and customers are discovering these things after they purchased them. These subtractions don't need to be announced during the keynote but at the very least make the information available before purchase. (differences between the current model and previous model)

 

[AshtonAsh]

Absolutely would miss the digital out on an ATV. One of the reasons I haven't moved to an ATV4. I use the ATV3 for Airplay from my computer and feed the digital audio out to my AV receiver. Can't do that with an ATV4.

 

[DaMax85]

I have a pair of Bose Companion II speakers I connect to my mac via the headphone jack. Does this mean they won't work with a new MacBook pro?

Apple appears to have removed optical audio output support from the headphone jack on its new 13-inch MacBook Pro with function keys, suggesting it is unlikely to have made the transition in the Touch Bar equipped models either.

Optical audio output is used to link Macs to home theater setups and A/V systems capable of multi-channel surround sound, by way of a mini TOSlink adapter connected to the 3.5mm jack.

The removal of optical audio was first noted by AppleInsider, after it was discovered that Apple's technical specifications for the headphone jack no longer mentions support for "audio line out (digital/analog)".

Removal of the standard was confirmed by comparing the System Profiler report on a new 13-inch MacBook Pro, which makes no mention of S/PDIF Optical Digital Audio Output, against reports on 2015 models, which do.

Support for optical audio out, as it appears on a 2015 13-inch MacBook Pro​

When queried about the removal, Apple said the feature was dropped due to a lack of customers using the functionality, noting that "plenty of USB-C zero-latency professional peripherals are available now, or coming very soon" with optical audio out connectivity.

The phasing out of the standard from the new MacBook Pro models follows a trend that began with the Apple TV. Apple ditched the optical audio port on the fourth generation Apple TV in favor of a USB-C port, preventing users from connecting headphones directly to the device.

Article Link: New MacBook Pro Models Lack Optical Audio Out via Headphone Jack

 

[dark_skies]

Other way around. If we needed it, people would have been using it. Were you or anyone you know ever using a MBP to feed optical audio to a home theater?

I suspect plenty of people were. I was (am) one of them. This dated back to a long-ago time when you were pleasantly surprised to find forward-thinking on behalf of Apple regarding their machines, particularly Pro ones, which were ready to do more - when you were. When a headphone "jack" could also put out home theater-ready audio. Now they ditch capabilities without much thought and no warning. In the meantime, my 2015 iMac can still "easily" output 5.1 audio for casual listening. For more sophisticated audio, there are other methods. But if I buy a new machine, I'll need those other methods, which will likely require More dongles / adapters / docks. This is a route to push people to other platforms, and as someone who has used Macs for 30 years, I find it sad to think I'll have to switch away from "courageous" Apple.

 

[stevefeinstein]

What makes the MBP actually PRO?
The retina monitor, the thunderbolt 3 feature?
A really fast SSD?

The macbook has that too, most of it.

What makes me a pro? I say so. Same goes for apple. Marketing that's all. If you don't like it. Start your own company and make a better ecosystem, m'kay?

 

[Floris]

What makes me a pro? I say so. Same goes for apple. Marketing that's all. If you don't like it. Start your own company and make a better ecosystem, m'kay?

Wow, are you on the wrong forum.

 

[kucharsk]

The removal of features is in and of itself not necessarily a "big deal", but I think it is more of the fact that Apple didn't announce these changes and customers are discovering these things after they purchased them. These subtractions don't need to be announced during the keynote but at the very least make the information available before purchase. (differences between the current model and previous model)

They kind of do; it's clearly missing from the list of features and the technical specs for the new model.

For example, they didn't announce "No physical ESC key!!!" either.

They did this same thing when they dropped the optical digital input, which is why I still have a 2009 MBP (forever stuck at El Capitan) running as a digital audio recorder.

 

[fedux]

They kind of do; it's clearly missing from the list of features and the technical specs for the new model.

For example, they didn't announce "No physical ESC key!!!" either.

They did this same thing when they dropped the optical digital input, which is why I still have a 2009 MBP (forever stuck at El Capitan) running as a digital audio recorder.

Actually you could either record or broadcast through that unique port, in >2009 <2016 MBP's.

 

[kucharsk]

Actually you could either record or broadcast through that unique port, in >2009 <2016 MBP's.

I thought the Toslink input went away on the retina MBP.

 

[Teon]

What makes me a pro? I say so. Same goes for apple. Marketing that's all. If you don't like it. Start your own company and make a better ecosystem, m'kay?

we're both trying to help each other and maintain a constructive dialogue. A clever banal phrases you should not be here)

 

[Danny Caccavo]

I'm with Apple on this one. I wonder how many people used this feature on the previous gen. Just because it's there doesn't mean it's useful. If you call yourself a "pro" you're probably using something else for your digital I/O needs.

As an audio pro, I use it all the time. As I work in a pro audio facility, we use them all the time. This is the same kind of crap they did with the Mac Pro. Their idea of pros excludes anything audio related.

 

[F1Mac]

As an audio pro, I use it all the time. As I work in a pro audio facility, we use them all the time. This is the same kind of crap they did with the Mac Pro. Their idea of pros excludes anything audio related.

Their idea of pros excludes a lot of things lately I hope they have something good to offer this year...

 

[OzyOly]

Their idea of pros excludes a lot of things lately I hope they have something good to offer this year...

They will be super exclusive at $4000.

 

[formular]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone found any simple (cheap but HQ) solution how to connect spdif speakers to new MBP? Ideally not using expensive external sound card. The adapter mentioned in thread seem to be a little clumsy. :/

Thanks for any advice.

 

[obiwan]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone found any simple (cheap but HQ) solution how to connect spdif speakers to new MBP? Ideally not using expensive external sound card. The adapter mentioned in thread seem to be a little clumsy. :/

Thanks for any advice.

You could always try using a little Airport Express and play audio from your MBP using Airplay. The Airport Express still has the combined Optical/Analogue Audio Jack. Airplay audio is transmitted using the Apple lossless audio codec, so no quality is lost.