New Macbook Pro: Wifi drops when externals connected

[symphara]

If /V\acpower is correct (and the argument is very convincing at the moment), neither a software update nor an internal redesign will fix anything, because the issue lies with the manufacturer of your peripheral device. Simply put, whoever made your HDD/thumbdrive etc. has apparently cheaped out on shielding.

Yes but this still is a concern. Obviously the problem seems worse with the new Macbook Pro, and to add to it, this is the one laptop range that requires a lot of dongles and adaptors for most normal use cases. I too have a Passport drive and never had a problem with it before, or any other devices on my Air.

My RT-68 router has both 2.4 and 5GHz enabled. I wonder if the problem will still show.

I'm about to order a new 15" with a ridiculous price tag, and what I'm reading about these days - WiFi problems, TI TB3 chipset incompatibilities, gives me jitters.

 

[leman]

Also found this:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...al-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html

I can't believe I wasn't aware of it before! It exactly explains the issues one of our personell was having with his MB13"!

 

[Meicyn]

Should be interesting to start seeing reviews recommending not to purchase a USB 3 product based on poor shielding.

 

[The Mercurian]

MacBook bad

lol

Ok, from a bit of google search, it seems related to USB 3.0 and 2.4Ghz Wifi band (widely used on a lot of wifi setup). It doesn't seem to be related to the 2016 MacBook Pro but to badly "shielded" usb 3.0 devices that emit interference that disturb 2.4Ghz Wifi Signals. Also its easy to find people complaining about the same effect on other computers, Macs or PC.

They tested it with a Dell XPS in the OP's vidoe and no problem.

Your choice.
[doublepost=1478214188][/doublepost]

Well right now i'm about to go buy a 5 Ghz router. That's the obvious issue.

(inb4 : no it's not only my new "2016 MBP" that making me do that. It also resolve other problem I have with home networking.)

So wait. Now if I order a 2016 MBP, I not only have to pay more, I also must buy an extension cable separately, a lightning to USB cable to connect an iPhone 7, a smorgasbord of dongles/cables AND I need to buy a new router ???

F**k that

 

[Meister]

Guys do you think this can be solved via a software update or do we need to wait for an internal redesign? I just bought this 1700€ machine and I am not willing to switch router and stuff to solve a problem which shouldn't even be there.

To work effectively I need like 3 USB c hubs and I won't buy them all from Apple just to solve this problem. I promise

No.

As others have correctly mentioned, this is a mechanical issue.

It's a known issue on the mac mini serious, but at the price point of the rmbp this is inacceptable.

 

[Macalway]

No.

As others have correctly mentioned, this is a mechanical issue.

Uh... hate to be a stickler, but it's an 'electronic' issue, not mechanical.

I know....

 

[cmaier]

Yes but this still is a concern. Obviously the problem seems worse with the new Macbook Pro,

That's not at all obvious.

 

[mikeo007]

Definitely not exclusive to Macs or even computers. I had major problems with my Netgear Nighthawk router caused by USB3 interference. I was plugging a 3TB Seagate hard drive into its USB 3.0 port and was having a really hard time using certain devices when performing transfers to/from the drive. Turns out the router was basically dropping all 2.4 GHz clients that were connected due to the interference.

 

[/V\acpower]

lol


They tested it with a Dell XPS in the OP's vidoe and no problem.



So wait. Now if I order a 2016 MBP, I not only have to pay more, I also must buy an extension cable separately, a lightning to USB cable to connect an iPhone 7, a smorgasbord of dongles/cables AND I need to buy a new router ???

F**k that

Well we need more data than "this other Dell laptop with this particular dongle worked", because it's all a matter of reception and electromagnetic field. The position of the laptop relative to the router and in the room can play, and the position of the particular USB 3 device and the USB 3 cable also have an important effect.

For example when I was testing this, some times on my desk the Wifi didn't work. However just moving the laptop in the air sometimes made the wifi come back to life. Moving the dongle and cable also have an effect. I have seen a video of a dude moving is screen and suddently getting reception back.

One proof of that is that in the OP video, the external HDD that caused an issue before the video didn't have an effect when he tried to do it again.

Same computer, same dongle, different result.

Plus, if you google a bit, you will find that peoples have had tons of similar problems with a wide variety of dongles on a wide variety of computers. Yes other macs, but other PCs too. You will find peoples having problem with older MacBook Pro, with MacBook, with Mac Minis, also with Microsoft Surfaces, HP and Dell laptops, etc.

Right now the 2016 MBP is getting a lot and lot of coverage, and so many peoples want to find problems with this particular laptop, it's the only reasons why you didn't hear about it before. It's the new controversial computer from Apple.

So no, the fact that this problem happened to a dude that happen to be a streamer doesn't mean the whole 2016 MBP line is flawed.

 

[Balaamsdonkey]

UPDATE :

Adapter + USB 3.0 HDD Dock (self powered) + HDD + big file transfer = No effect on Wifi. Stream still strong. Pages updates as fast. (no lost bar on the Wifi icon, like any other test that didn't affect wifi signal.)
[doublepost=1478208052][/doublepost]PROBLEM SOLVED! :

Ok, from a bit of google search, it seems related to USB 3.0 and 2.4Ghz Wifi band (widely used on a lot of wifi setup). It doesn't seem to be related to the 2016 MacBook Pro but to badly "shielded" usb 3.0 devices that emit interference that disturb 2.4Ghz Wifi Signals. Also its easy to find people complaining about the same effect on other computers, Macs or PC.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...al-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2423604,00.asp

(just make a quick search on USB 3.0 and Wifi interference)

Thanks for doing all this leg work and reporting here!
[doublepost=1478282671][/doublepost]

Keeping mine as im on 5ghz wifi.

Do you have problems when there's a wall between the machine and the router, or does that not happen for you?

 

[hj576]

They tested it with a Dell XPS in the OP's vidoe and no problem.

Actually no, he did not test the Exteral Drive with XPS 13, he just tested the dongle to see if the HDMI worked fine with the XPS 13

 

[Pootmatoot]

I hope it's not WIFI interference due to improperly shielded USC-C ports (or vice versa, from devices)... it that's the case, this is a physical problem that cannot be fixed.

It sure looks like that sort of behaviour (ie semi-random due to wifi data fluctuations) but I can't believe Apple could have possibly done that.
[doublepost=1478284666][/doublepost]

Actually no, he did not test the Exteral Drive with XPS 13, he just tested the dongle to see if the HDMI worked fine with the XPS 13

The drives and dongles were stock... they would know if there were issues with other laptops they have in house and use every day.

 

[hj576]

I hope it's not WIFI interference due to improperly shielded USC-C ports (or vice versa, from devices)... it that's the case, this is a physical problem that cannot be fixed.

It sure looks like that sort of behaviour (ie semi-random due to wifi data fluctuations) but I can't believe Apple could have possibly done that.
[doublepost=1478284666][/doublepost]

The drives and dongles were stock... they would know if there were issues with other laptops they have in house and use every day.

You misunderstood what i said
When he tested the HDMI with the new Macbook Pro, he was getting flickering on the screen
So they tested the dongle with the XPS 13 to see if the HDMI worked fine, which it did. So they did not check the wifi issue rather they checked the HDMI out issue
Which does raise questions about the HDMI issue as well though ...
[doublepost=1478284930][/doublepost]This new Macbook Pro is just bad news, And I get mine in a week

 

[Pootmatoot]

You misunderstood what i said
When he tested the HDMI with the new Macbook Pro, he was getting flickering on the screen
So they tested the dongle with the XPS 13 to see if the HDMI worked fine, which it did. So they did not check the wifi issue rather they checked the HDMI out issue
Which does raise questions about the HDMI issue as well though ...
[doublepost=1478284930][/doublepost]This new Macbook Pro is just bad news, And I get mine in a week

One of the many positives of having a very quick update cycle (like Samsung, who can even have as little as 6 months between models) it that you can identify and iterate out problems very quickly.

I'm honestly surprised Apple hasn't had more issues due to their very long cycle. There's no QA testing quite like thousands of real world users.

 

[Balaamsdonkey]

Would anyone be interested in a Google Sheet where we list peripherals that are known to kill WiFi at 2.4GHz and do not kill WiFi at 2.4 GHz?

I'm not good at spreadsheets, so if someone is better at them they can make this one better and we can use it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EQ7p2B65Va1JfR8HOBvEYK1I8M_EDdpE8uRpWVtcJh4/edit?usp=sharing

I'll leave it up for a few days. If it looks like no one is interested I'll delete it.

 

[Meister]

You misunderstood what i said
When he tested the HDMI with the new Macbook Pro, he was getting flickering on the screen
So they tested the dongle with the XPS 13 to see if the HDMI worked fine, which it did. So they did not check the wifi issue rather they checked the HDMI out issue
Which does raise questions about the HDMI issue as well though ...
[doublepost=1478284930][/doublepost]This new Macbook Pro is just bad news, And I get mine in a week

I wouldn't order any of these macbooks just yet.
Just wait how all of this plays out.

 

[MattSeven]

Waaaaaiiiiit a minute. Someone is spending thousands on a premium laptop, but thinks 2.4Ghz is a good idea?

I agree that some people may not be ready to buy this computer.

 

[maflynn]

I watched the video, and my only thought was either the MBP was defective or maybe the dongles he used were defective, but then they did work on other laptops.

There's a news story about some TB devices not working because of chipset issues, I wonder if something similar is occurring with the USB-C

Time will tell if this is an aberration or something that will be giving new MBP owners headaches.

 

[x-evil-x]

15" models will be the problem free ones do to spacing differences

 

[steve62388]

I hope it's not WIFI interference due to improperly shielded USC-C ports (or vice versa, from devices)... it that's the case, this is a physical problem that cannot be fixed.

It sure looks like that sort of behaviour (ie semi-random due to wifi data fluctuations) but I can't believe Apple could have possibly done that.
[doublepost=1478284666][/doublepost]

The drives and dongles were stock... they would know if there were issues with other laptops they have in house and use every day.

It's not Apple's fault if third party devices are not shielded properly. Given that it tends to be a price race to the bottom manufacturers cut costs with shoddy shielding. They can interfere with Bluetooth too because it's the same frequency. I have witnessed this behaviour on my iMac, I returned the product and paid more for a better quality one.

That's why you're better off with USB2 devices when speed is not critical e.g. mice and keyboards.

 

[Wildkraut]

This is not only Apple MacBook Pro related.
Many USB3 devices interferes with 2.4GHz wireless technique incl. the Logitech Unified Dongle(which also transmits over 2.4GHz).

https://benad.me/blog/2015/5/3/the-mystery-of-logitech-wireless-interferences/
http://support.logitech.com/en_us/article/38032

Thats the nature of using USB3 devices near other 2.4GHz devices, and can happen.
So don't only blame Apple, blame the USB3 standard specification.

 

[mrex]

but those are wireless bt devices working on 2,4ghz... the problem here is with devices working through cables.

 

[Wildkraut]

but those are wireless bt devices working on 2,4ghz... the problem here is with devices working through cables.

2.4GHz is 2.4GHz doesn't matter if it's BT or WiFi. Cabled USB3 devices can also interfere with Wireless transmitions.

http://uk.pcmag.com/networking-revi...the-truth-about-usb-30-and-wi-fi-interference

Download PDF and read carefully:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...al-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html


Summary

The noise generated due to the USB 3.0 data spectrum can have an impact on radio receivers whose antenna is placed close to a USB 3.0 device and/or USB 3.0 connector. The noise is a broadband noise that cannot be filtered out, since it falls within the band of operation of the wireless device (2.4–2.5 GHz). The noise degrades the signal-to-noise ratio that the wireless receiver sees and limits its sensitivity. This then reduces the operating wireless range of the device.

Improving the shielding on the USB 3.0 receptacle connector can help reduce the amount of noise radiated due to USB 3.0 signaling. In addition, shielding of the USB 3.0 peripheral device plays an important role in reducing the amount of noise radiated in the 2.4–2.5 GHz range. This is particularly critical for peripheral devices that are placed close to the PC platform, such as a flash drive. Placement of the wireless antenna should also be carefully considered on a platform and be located as far away as possible from a USB 3.0 connector and/or device.

 

[x-evil-x]

2.4GHz is 2.4GHz doesn't matter if it's BT or WiFi. Cabled USB3 devices can also interfere with Wireless transmitions.

http://uk.pcmag.com/networking-revi...the-truth-about-usb-30-and-wi-fi-interference

Download PDF and read carefully:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...al-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html


Summary

The noise generated due to the USB 3.0 data spectrum can have an impact on radio receivers whose antenna is placed close to a USB 3.0 device and/or USB 3.0 connector. The noise is a broadband noise that cannot be filtered out, since it falls within the band of operation of the wireless device (2.4–2.5 GHz). The noise degrades the signal-to-noise ratio that the wireless receiver sees and limits its sensitivity. This then reduces the operating wireless range of the device.

Improving the shielding on the USB 3.0 receptacle connector can help reduce the amount of noise radiated due to USB 3.0 signaling. In addition, shielding of the USB 3.0 peripheral device plays an important role in reducing the amount of noise radiated in the 2.4–2.5 GHz range. This is particularly critical for peripheral devices that are placed close to the PC platform, such as a flash drive. Placement of the wireless antenna should also be carefully considered on a platform and be located as far away as possible from a USB 3.0 connector and/or device.

I'm surprised Apple did not notice this on the 13". I'm curious to see if the 15" will have the issues being it's larger size. Not sure where they placed the wifi chip in not both machines

 

[mrex]

that was the point. it is well known that wireless bt devices at 2,4ghz are causing issues (your link above), it has been years like that. but then also wired usb3-devices can affect 2.4ghz wifi.