"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level"

[kellen]

Give the xeons to the dual CPU and the I7's to the single machines. Drop the price of the six core to near imac levels. New case and that would be great.

But they are probably just talking about the price. +500 across the board, same case.

 

[nanofrog]

Give the xeons to the dual CPU and the I7's to the single machines. Drop the price of the six core to near imac levels. New case and that would be great.

But they are probably just talking about the price. +500 across the board, same case.

Intel's quantity pricing for the i7 and the SP Xeon's are the same (what they publish at any rate, as very high quantities could get vendor's a better deal). So you might as well go with the Xeon in order to offer ECC capability, even if it's not equiped with ECC RAM. It keeps the systems in the same league in that sense, though few users actually need ECC (since the Nehalem architecture parts no longer require ECC memory to function, as previous MP's did).

By using standard DDR3, they could lower the price that way. But as lowering said prices, the Quads could infringe on the iMac's sales, which I suspect have higher margins for Apple, not to mention higher sales numbers.

 

[bzollinger]

Give the xeons to the dual CPU and the I7's to the single machines. Drop the price of the six core to near imac levels. New case and that would be great.

But they are probably just talking about the price. +500 across the board, same case.

This is exactly what I think they should do!!

Intel's quantity pricing for the i7 and the SP Xeon's are the same (what they publish at any rate, as very high quantities could get vendor's a better deal). So you might as well go with the Xeon in order to offer ECC capability, even if it's not equiped with ECC RAM. It keeps the systems in the same league in that sense, though few users actually need ECC (since the Nehalem architecture parts no longer require ECC memory to function, as previous MP's did).

By using standard DDR3, they could lower the price that way. But as lowering said prices, the Quads could infringe on the iMac's sales, which I suspect have higher margins for Apple, not to mention higher sales numbers.

This might be the case. However I think we should be discussing what the consumers want/need not Apple's profit. It's smart to talk about it and speculate what they will do. But it's also important to tell them what we want from them! They are in the business to make computers for us! Sure there are people that will just buy whatever they make. I for one haven't purchased a new MP yet, because as is discussed here everyday, they've been taking the MP customers for granted.

Apple, take us to the next level but give us a little more for our $2400-8000 dollars!!

 

[Icaras]

This might be the case. However I think we should be discussing what the consumers want/need not Apple's profit. It's smart to talk about it and speculate what they will do. But it's also important to tell them what we want from them! They are in the business to make computers for us! Sure there are people that will just buy whatever they make. I for one haven't purchased a new MP yet, because as is discussed here everyday, they've been taking the MP customers for granted.

Apple, take us to the next level but give us a little more for our $2400-8000 dollars!!

Agreed with what you said. But that's the conundrum isn't it? They are definitely in the business of making computers for us, just not the ones the minority wants (i.e: the people in this thread).

You are right to say it is important to tell them what we want, but as a company, that translates to revenue. At this point, it seems to be very clear to Apple what their customers want. The chart that VirtualRain posts in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/855974/ cements the picture to Apple that their customers want mobile devices and more gadgets.

In other words, the people have already spoken. Unfortunately.

 

[nanofrog]

This might be the case. However I think we should be discussing what the consumers want/need not Apple's profit.

My comment had nothing to do with profit, but technical reasons. No matter the i7 or Xeon variant, it's the same cost, so why not use the Xeon to have the ability to run ECC, if it's the same price.

It looks better on a spec sheet, whether or not the benefits are real for most users. I figure why not. Apple can use non ECC DDR3 to reduce the pricing and pass the savings on to users.

The rest of it (iMac vs. MP) issues are how Apple sees things, not my take. They want to make sure there's a solid definition between the lines, even if it's artificial (whether that means intentionally over-priced, or use some proprietary means to do so).

Personally, I see the definition as expansion. They can further separate them with other features as well (i.e. items users have requested), and use that as the defining characteristics (and justify the inevitable price difference between the lines). For example, things like more HDD bays (doable with an additional SATA or SAS chip on the board to provide the additional ports needed) would help to do that. An eSATA port/s (I'd like to see 2) is worth mentioning as well, especially as getting a bootable eSATA card for a MP is possible, but expensive add-on that eats a PCIe slot (quite precious to some users). It's another improvement many have desired and presume requested. There are others of course, but hopefully you get the idea.

 

[peskaa]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/intel-teases-six-core-gulftown-discusses-tera-scale-computing/


I'm expecting to see the six-core Gulftowns as the BTO top end options for both single and dual CPU systems, but with quad-cores still being the standard shipping option. The six-cores are going to be shockingly expensive, and simply not a sensible choice across the whole range.

So, I expect a line up similar to today except with a six/twelve-core BTO option available for a large stack of cash. ATi 5870 cards as the GPU upgrade, and the possibility of SSD.

 

[Icaras]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/intel-teases-six-core-gulftown-discusses-tera-scale-computing/


I'm expecting to see the six-core Gulftowns as the BTO top end options for both single and dual CPU systems, but with quad-cores still being the standard shipping option. The six-cores are going to be shockingly expensive, and simply not a sensible choice across the whole range.

So, I expect a line up similar to today except with a six/twelve-core BTO option available for a large stack of cash. ATi 5870 cards as the GPU upgrade, and the possibility of SSD.

Do you think the quad core low end will see a price cut then?

 

[Techhie]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/intel-teases-six-core-gulftown-discusses-tera-scale-computing/


I'm expecting to see the six-core Gulftowns as the BTO top end options for both single and dual CPU systems, but with quad-cores still being the standard shipping option. The six-cores are going to be shockingly expensive, and simply not a sensible choice across the whole range.

So, I expect a line up similar to today except with a six/twelve-core BTO option available for a large stack of cash. ATi 5870 cards as the GPU upgrade, and the possibility of SSD.

If they were to do this and call it an "update", they might as well say goodbye to me (and many other people) as a future customer.

 

[ARF900]

A multi-touch keyboard would be nice. and portrait swivel stands for new displays.

now that would be what I call innovation, the applications would be endless.

 

[nanofrog]

If they were to do this and call it an "update", they might as well say goodbye to me (and many other people) as a future customer.

I really do think it will be like '07. Same board, case,... but with new CPU's as an option. That's it, as it makes financial sense (no additional R&D required on the hardware, just new microcode added to handle the new 6 core CPU's).

 

[Dr.Pants]

If they were to do this and call it an "update", they might as well say goodbye to me (and many other people) as a future customer.

Indeed.

However, last time I saw a list of the expected variants for the 6-core chips, there was only one single-core 36xx series Xeon that corresponded to a single non-Xeon chip. The rest were 56xx series. Maybe a quad, hexa, and dudeca option could be expected.

I'll try and dig up that list. Eidorian posted it, IIRC.

At anyrate, I'd rather have Thuban for my dudeca-core rendering farm since a dual-processor Gulftown machine would be out of my price range for a good long time.

 

[Icaras]

I really do think it will be like '07. Same board, case,... but with new CPU's as an option. That's it, as it makes financial sense (no additional R&D required on the hardware, just new microcode added to handle the new 6 core CPU's).

I know this has probably been discussed before but do you also think there will be a chance the quad core will actually stay?

 

[pooryou]

Hate to be the wet blanket, but when Steve refers to 'new macs' these days, I don't think you can assume he's talking about the Mac Pro. Maybe he is (that would be my hope) but realistically he may actually be referring to the iMac, Mac Mini, hell even laptops.

 

[Techhie]

I know this has probably been discussed before but do you also think there will be a chance the quad core will actually stay?

It might, but with a reduced price point. The 6-core will likely fill the $2,499 slot, and then 12-core at $3,200.

Hopefully all will have some sort of improved hardware outside of the CPU, else it wont be a very worthwhile update.

 

[Icaras]

It might, but with a reduced price point. The 6-core will likely fill the $2,499 slot, and then 12-core at $3,200.

Hopefully all will have some sort of improved hardware outside of the CPU, else it wont be a very worthwhile update.

This is what will most likely tip the balance for me in deciding on the new Mac Pro. If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.

My budget is tight and even though I may not get the best bang for my buck with the quad core version or even the low end six core, my primary reason for wanting the Mac Pro to begin with is for expandability.

 

[Techhie]

This is what will most likely tip the balance for me in deciding on the new Mac Pro. If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.

My budget is tight and even though I may not get the best bang for my buck with the quad core version or even the low end six core, my primary reason for wanting the Mac Pro to begin with is for expandability.

You should consider the '08, as the '10 will likely be unimpressive.

 

[Icaras]

You should consider the '08, as the '10 will likely be unimpressive.

Yea i know, those 08's are very popular here And I know Nano is a strong proponent for it too. Current refurb 08s at the Apple store are out of my price range unfortunately.

I'm just very curious to see the 10's first though, since its just right around the corner. I really want to see how awful the value/power everyone thinks it will be.

 

[Techhie]

Yea i know, those 08's are very popular here And I know Nano is a strong proponent for it too. Current refurb 08s at the Apple store are out of my price range unfortunately.

I'm just very curious to see the 10's first though, since its just right around the corner. I really want to see how awful the value/power everyone thinks it will be.

It is also worth waiting simply because of the reduction of street price after an update (regardless of what that update is)

I've seen several 2.8 GHz '08 models on eBay hovering around $2,000 lately, but I'm going to wait until the new models are introduced until I pull a trigger.

 

[chet.d]

Yea i know, those 08's are very popular here And I know Nano is a strong proponent for it too. Current refurb 08s at the Apple store are out of my price range unfortunately.

I'm just very curious to see the 10's first though, since its just right around the corner. I really want to see how awful the value/power everyone thinks it will be.

I was also soooo waiting...and coming from a MDD dual 867 no less
But, I needed to act. I decided that my budget dictates that waiting for the 2010 mac pro just isn't as important as getting back to work with a decent machine.

Just brought home on Tuesday a late 2008 2.8 8 core, 6 months of Apple care left and will buy the 2 years more option, 16 gigs of ram, 80 gig intel SSD for boot! + apps, 360 gig HD for audio samples. - $2500
(need to get a 3rd 1TB for tracking)
...I got very lucky with craigslist NY. Don't mean to boast, I was due for a break, trust me. I'm thankful.

So thanks in NO small part to Nano for much guidance.
A UAD 2 Quad will be gently dropped into the Pcie slot and tracking will soon ensue, following a studio re-vamp

 

[chet.d]

It is also worth waiting simply because of the reduction of street price after an update (regardless of what that update is)

I've seen several 2.8 GHz '08 models on eBay hovering around $2,000 lately, but I'm going to wait until the new models are introduced until I pull a trigger.

That's been my thinking as well. I just needed to get back to work and to me, the 2.8 I just got seemed like too good a deal to pass up.

I also felt that I'd need to let the dust settle on the 2010 for a few months and see... well that and I just can't muster much more than I just spent.

 

[Icaras]

I was also soooo waiting...and coming from a MDD dual 867 no less
But, I needed to act. I decided that my budget dictates that waiting for the 2010 mac pro just isn't as important as getting back to work with a decent machine.

Just brought home on Tuesday a late 2008 2.8 8 core, 6 months of Apple care left and will buy the 2 years more option, 16 gigs of ram, 80 gig intel SSD for boot! + apps, 360 gig HD for audio samples. - $2500
(need to get a 3rd 1TB for tracking)
...I got very lucky with craigslist NY. Don't mean to boast, I was due for a break, trust me. I'm thankful.

So thanks in NO small part to Nano for much guidance.
A UAD 2 Quad will be gently dropped into the Pcie slot and tracking will soon ensue, following a studio re-vamp

Congratulations! Nice system! And nice buy too. Damn, 16GB of RAM and SSD for that price. I am full of envy right now

I'm sure you'll have tons of fun (and hours of productive work of course ) with your machine. Great investment you have there.

 

[nanofrog]

I know this has probably been discussed before but do you also think there will be a chance the quad core will actually stay?

Well, I've not yet seen a full model list, but I presume there won't be many SP parts (which actually makes sense IMO, as there's still a market for Quad cores), so YES.

It might, but with a reduced price point. The 6-core will likely fill the $2,499 slot, and then 12-core at $3,200.

The Quads won't fall, as Xeon chips don't fall. That's just a fact that must be dealt with as-is unfortunately. And I don't see Apple deciding to reduce their margins to lower the prices.

It should be expected that the Gulftown models will be more expensive as well than their closest Nehalem (i.e. clock speed), as there's both an additional pair of cores and a die shrink to pay for. It won't come for free.

Hopefully all will have some sort of improved hardware outside of the CPU, else it wont be a very worthwhile update.

There's not much that can be done, as the existing board will almost certainly be used for the new parts (only an update to the firmware to allow the new chips to work).

This is what will most likely tip the balance for me in deciding on the new Mac Pro. If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.

I'd be totally floored if that actually happens. The existing parts won't get a significant drop in price (i.e. look at the 5365 Xeons desired for '06 systems to get them to Octads).

My budget is tight and even though I may not get the best bang for my buck with the quad core version or even the low end six core, my primary reason for wanting the Mac Pro to begin with is for expandability.

You've a couple of possibilities.

1. Get a refurb that's in your price range, which could be either a 2.8GHz '08 Octad (when/if one shows, and you must be able to be patient and wait for one to do so), or one of the '09 Quads (2.66GHz is the most likely) to fit in say a ~$2500 budget, not including extended Apple Care (no matter which machine is selected), or upgrades.

2. Buy used, where the '08 models would make more sense (as you'd want an '09 from the refurb store). Hopefully, you can find one already with extended Apple Care, or still has the ability to get it.

Personally, the '08 is a better system for you, as it can grow with your software needs due to 8 physical cores.

You should consider the '08, as the '10 will likely be unimpressive.

Absolutely.

 

[Techhie]

2. Buy used, where the '08 models would make more sense (as you'd want an '09 from the refurb store). Hopefully, you can find one already with extended Apple Care, or still has the ability to get it.

Personally, the '08 is a better system for you, as it can grow with your software needs due to 8 physical cores.

Hopefully the '08 systems will come down a bit more in light of updates, I need more RAM and as well as a better GPU to drive these displays (and maybe an SSD for boot?)

 

[hoya87eagle91]

The Quads won't fall, as Xeon chips don't fall. That's just a fact that must be dealt with as-is unfortunately. And I don't see Apple deciding to reduce their margins to lower the prices.


1. Get a refurb that's in your price range, which could be either a 2.8GHz '08 Octad (when/if one shows, and you must be able to be patient and wait for one to do so), or one of the '09 Quads (2.66GHz is the most likely) to fit in say a ~$2500 budget, not including extended Apple Care (no matter which machine is selected), or upgrades.

I just picked up a refurb 2009 2.66 quad for $2150 . Haven't even opened it and have another week or so to return it. Your pricing rationale seems reasonable. If the new quads will be priced about $2500, would it be wise to hold on to this and save $350 rather than wait for a 2101 quad at $2500?

 

[Icaras]

You've a couple of possibilities.

1. Get a refurb that's in your price range, which could be either a 2.8GHz '08 Octad (when/if one shows, and you must be able to be patient and wait for one to do so), or one of the '09 Quads (2.66GHz is the most likely) to fit in say a ~$2500 budget, not including extended Apple Care (no matter which machine is selected), or upgrades.

2. Buy used, where the '08 models would make more sense (as you'd want an '09 from the refurb store). Hopefully, you can find one already with extended Apple Care, or still has the ability to get it.

Personally, the '08 is a better system for you, as it can grow with your software needs due to 8 physical cores.

I just picked up a refurb 2009 2.66 quad for $2150 . Haven't even opened it and have another week or so to return it. Your pricing rationale seems reasonable. If the new quads will be priced about $2500, would it be wise to hold on to this and save $350 rather than wait for a 2101 quad at $2500?

Nice, thanks again Nano (and everyone) for their knowledge and advice. I was just looking at the refurb store and saw the same $2150 2009 2.66 quad. Pretty tempting at that price....