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New Microsoft Ad Campaign Targets Mac Prices

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analogy doesn't work

JohnnyLemonhead said:
Vista has been abandoned by MS. It was just a tiny glitch in the middle of an otherwise smooth transition from XP to 7. It will join Millennium Edition in Windows heaven.
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The name "Vista" is being abandoned, not the OS.

Win7 is a big step forward, but underneath the surface it is Vista.1 - right down to the Gestalt code. Vista was a fine OS, but its UX needed fixing. Win7 is the fixed UX for Vista.


gathart said:
Stop this poor me, i got a bad experience posting, its getting boring
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I think it helps to counter the "Macs are perfect" posts to have an articulate description of a really bad Apple experience. We all know that it doesn't mean that all Apples are bad, but it does show that there are a few bad Apples.


Concorde Rules said:
Issues with my 5 year old Powermac G4 MDD? Not a thing.
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You didn't have the "Wind Tunnel" fixed?

PowerMac G4 "Wind Tunnel" - MacOSX

An evolutionary model, the PowerMac G4 MDD (Mirrored Drive Door) featured dual processors in a sturdy redesigned tower that now offered two 5.25" front drive bays, 3 IDE buses and and 4 internal hard disks. The excellent fold-down side design was retained, and even the notoriously sluggish MacOSX felt snappy on these systems. Cooling was beginning to become an issue with faster CPU speeds, and some configurations had problems with very loud fans. The press quickly adopted the fitting moniker "wind tunnel" and the nickname has stuck.

http://www.vintagemacmuseum.com/vmm-ppc-gseries.html
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kironin said:
No you don't have to buy the same for a Mac. That's the point.

I don't own MS Office or Adobe Photoshop and I don't need them to do what I do.

iLife came with it. iWorks is $79 and there's Beans of some other OS X good free stuff.

I use Gimp and other multimedia and video tools instead of Photoshop CS4 etc..

Stuff that exists on OS X because the nature of the operating system.

With Vista I would be paying through the nose for tools (over a $1000) to do the things I do in as efficient and flexible manner as I do them.

so the idea because she can go buy $700 laptop just on hardware specs is getting the same thing as Macbook Pro is nonsense.
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you do realize that the gimp and openoffice are availiable for windows right? as well as many free software too

once again whats your point? dont say that you have to buy photoshop and office if you have windows. you would have to buy them for mac too if you wanted that software

if you dont want it, there are free alternatives to office and photoshop for both platforms
 
Beerfloat said:
Heh yeah except that you're talking about a consumer CPU which doesn't support more than 1 single socket per motherboard, nor ECC memory for that matter.

Not in the slightest bit anywhere close to a Mac Pro.
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All right, fine -- if you really want me to spend six grand on Newegg, I'll put 4 procs, 4 video cards, 16 gigs of RAM and 2 TB hard drives in it. THAT close enough for you?
 
JohnnyLemonhead said:
Well, I could turn it around and say "face it: you are not in the Mac Pro's target demo." An $80,000 Mercedes pretty much does the same job as a $300,000 Bentley, but then I am not in the Bentley's target demo.
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Yes, but if the production costs of a Bentley were on par with those of a Mercedes, potential Bentley buyers would be asking what the hell is up with the prices. Macs weren't handmade in Italy, they're not made from 24K gold or rare metals from outer space, they're generic PC components in aluminium buckets, built in a low-cost part of the world where Bentley or Mercedes would only locate a plant at the risk of losing their entire customer base.

There's always some headroom for asking a little more than the competition does, based on brand status etc, but there's a tipping point where it goes from "well, it's worth it" to omg-wtf-pinch-my-arm-surreal, and Apple is on the wrong side of that tipping point.

Nobody would be yapping about Apple's prices if there was something, anything about the hardware that justifies the prices. The reason why this discussion never dies is precisely that, and of course it got worse after the Intel switch when *all* of the internal components, not merely the drives and the RAM, became directly comparable with the PC market. It will perplex people until the day it stops.
 
Double J said:
All right, fine -- if you really want me to spend six grand on Newegg, I'll put 4 procs, 4 video cards, 16 gigs of RAM and 2 TB hard drives in it. THAT close enough for you?
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Well tbh not really, because there simply is no other manufacturer selling dual Nehalem systems yet. You can't actually build something comparable enough to say that the Mac Pro's relative price is outrageous :)
 
Double J said:
The Windows vs. OS X argument is completely intractable and totally a matter of taste, but I don't see how anyone in their right mind could possibly argue that Mac hardware isn't overpriced. I knew Macs were expensive, but I was SHOCKED to see a reasonably powerful Mac Pro for $6,200. OVER SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS. That's with twin Nehalem quad-core 2.93 GHz procs, a 1 TB hard drive, and the ATi Radeon HD 4870 512 MB video card. I built a PC with the same exact specs on Newegg for about $2500 (Windows included). For six grand on Newegg, I could probably launch my own animation studio. Face it, you guys are paying for a shiny box.
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Where on Newegg did you find such a machine? I checked the site, and no such machine exists.
 
dukebound85 said:
the 360 is better than the ps3 what are you implying lol

sorry thats a horrible analogy
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No, the PS3 is better than Xbox 360 and has Blu-ray drive. Your Xbox 360 is stuck with DVD.
Ha :p

Though, there are more Xbox 360 users than PS3 users. That's where the analogy comes from. :(

Also, the PS3 has a better processor and more potential than Xbox 360.
 
kabunaru said:
Mac = PS3
PC = Xbox 360

An analogy in my opinion.
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Well except for the fact that there are almost as many PS3s out there as Xboxes, and most software gets ported to both, and Mac exactly does NOT have bluray, it really is an interesting analogy. :eek:
 
Scottgfx said:
Why are you so angry? Do you go after the Dell Adamo buyers with the same zeal?
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Oh, totally. Those guys deserve an even heavier thrashing because the Adamo is even more overpriced and underpowered than an MBA. It's the Gucci handbag of laptops. I hope that every Adamo buyer gets egged. With ostrich eggs.
 
Well folks. I hope everyone has a nice Easter.

If you want good quality, buy Cadbury chocolates like the mini eggs or something.
If you want inferior taste, buy Palmer's chocolates.
Sorry, no offense to fans of that brand.
 
Anuba said:
Oh, totally. Those guys deserve an even heavier thrashing because the Adamo is even more overpriced and underpowered than an MBA. It's the Gucci handbag of laptops. I hope that every Adamo buyer gets egged. With ostrich eggs.
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Now, if an Adamo buyer liked his or her laptop, why would you want to cause them physical harm? What do you get out of it?
 
Yes apple's products are expensive.

Yes they are probably playing on their brand image but this is not the whole story.

Look at the construction of say an imac or macbook compared to a typical DELL or HP.

An imac has a beautiful machined (by the looks of it) aluminium case. Same with that uni body macbook. What are Dells or HP's? Injection moulded plastic cases?

I am a design engineer and design consumer products so I do know what I am talking about. Nobody in most industries would dream of doing what apple does. I would love to have their freedom to design to a quality, not to a cost. A machined aluminium case from one solid ingot will not be cheap, believe me. Probably 10 times the cost of an injection moulded casing. As I said most companies will not entertain this type of thing. You would be laughed out of the company just for suggesting it.

So the hard ware costs are going to be several times what most other manufacturers will cost. As a rule what something costs to make is around 3-5 times as much when the customer pays for it (to cover all the costs and make a reasonable but not excessive margin) so if it takes $50 to make it will sell for $150.

Frankly with all that machined aluminium I really struggle to see how apple can sell them for the cost it does, Seriously you get what you pay for.

As a design engineer who talks to other industrial designers and engineers in my own and other companies, trust me we all look up to apple and hugely admire them. They have given us all hope and raised the standard everywhere. I don't work in a computer manufacturer, (consumer products) but apple are hugely influential across design and engineering in general, across all industries.

All I say from the engineers and consumers perspective, Thank god for apple for caring about what people want.

Quality has to be payed for.

Their business model is based on selling something unique. They do not get into the commodity market. If you do, what happens is it becomes an arms race until in the end your once well designed product will be sourced from a low cost OEM supplier in Asia. And what you are selling is the same thing as the next guy, just with a different brand and slightly different casing. Your company will now be just a marketing company and all the R&D will be gone. Apple is preserving its integrity and ensuring its LONG TERM survival.

There is no future in selling in the commodity market.

Once a product becomes commoditised. Its time to get out of that business and leave it to the companies who want to scratch a living on ever decreasing margins.

apple are smart. They know how to run their business well and make innovative products.
 
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