Could the long delay not be down to a chassis re-design as well as chip shortages? I mean it's out of date next to the rest of the range and you lot want more space. I think it would be a good time to change it and address cooling etc in preparation for the next Intel Xeon chips next year. 16 physical cores will get pretty hot.
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New MP on May 18
- Thread starter Murray M
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The TDP on the new chips remain below the 135 on the current MP Xeons - due to the die shrink - others may want to verify this - but it is what I recall seeing a couple of weeks ago. Ergo - no cooling issue requiring a re-engineering.
A case redesign would be about as straightforward as it gets from an engineering perspective - not likely an issue.
Chip shortage - less likely as time goes on.
Apple runs at its own pace - that may be on the money 😀 😀
A case redesign would be about as straightforward as it gets from an engineering perspective - not likely an issue.
Chip shortage - less likely as time goes on.
Apple runs at its own pace - that may be on the money 😀 😀
I was thinking if they redesign the chassis it will have to cope with all the new hardware that gets put in it for the next 4 to 5 years as that seems to be the current time line. Hence why I don't think it would be an easy task, unless you plan to change it every 2 years like PC's.
And the CPU shortage opinion I based on the MB Pros, the fact Apple couldn't get any i5 or i7's cause Acer brought them all!! Could it be the same situation with Dell buying all the Xeon's? Although I guess laptop CPU's are different to desktop as they aren't sold of the shelf but mainly to manufacturers only.
I wouldn't say they are taking there time, but then again if it isn't perfect, Apple won't sell it no matter what. 🙄
Umbongo
macrumors 601
Yes it could. Apple bought all the 1600MHz FSB Xeon 5400s in 2007 and other companies weren't selling them for some time after the launch of the 2008 Mac Pro.
Keep in mind though, the Retail packaged parts are available as well, and Intel has to keep up with vendor contracts before they do anything else. So it doesn't seem likely they've sent everything to Dell, and other vendors are left without parts.
Icaras
macrumors 603
Do you recall how long it took in general for competing companies to start selling their workstations after Apple refreshed the Mac Pro?
On the CPU hardware front, nothing new is coming before next summer, at the earliest.
As for the case, they probably do want one that will last a few years, since that is probably all they'll need to keep the MP around for. (No matter how dedicated they stay to pros, 4-6 years from now we will probably have MBPs with 8 cores, dual 2TB SATA-600 SSDs, and 100Gbps Light Peak, and most people won't want towers anymore.) If they do have a chassis redesign, they MIGHT hold it back for WWDC. Get all the devs hyped about developing for iPhone OS 4 and the new iPhone, then break out the worlds only Xeon 5600 box that runs the iPhone SDK, in a sexy new case.
Hell, that strategy could work even with the old case. iPhone development needs a Mac. Lots of folks at/watching WWDC will be looking to switch so they can do iPhone development, good time to announce the new workstation-class Mac
xgman
macrumors 603
Umbongo
macrumors 601
And Final Cut Pro will still only use 1 of them, 😡 along with every other Apple program. It really makes me mad that Apple has had multiple-core machines for years, and yet has not implemented multi-core encoding in anything but compressor.
They should hire the handbrake team and get their act together.
I just priced out a Dell T7500 with dual Xeon 5680's (3.33GHz) and minimal graphics, memory, HD. It comes out at $3646 which is very cheap considering that the CPUs alone are each $1700 at provantage and $1750 at newegg. Add the 1100 Watt 85% efficient power supply and you end up at $3600 just for CPUs and PS.
That means that you get the motherboard (with SAS controller-LSI 1068e), case, cheap graphics adapter, little memory, HD, DVD-Rom, mouse, keyboard for free.
You can get 24GB of DDR3-1333 ECC registered memory for $900 at newegg.
All you need is a couple of Intel SSDs and a graphics card of your choice and you have a kick-ass system for a very fair price.
Your geekbench score would be around 22000 (see Supermicro X8DA3 score with same CPUs).
That means that you get the motherboard (with SAS controller-LSI 1068e), case, cheap graphics adapter, little memory, HD, DVD-Rom, mouse, keyboard for free.
You can get 24GB of DDR3-1333 ECC registered memory for $900 at newegg.
All you need is a couple of Intel SSDs and a graphics card of your choice and you have a kick-ass system for a very fair price.
Your geekbench score would be around 22000 (see Supermicro X8DA3 score with same CPUs).
Umbongo
macrumors 601
That price you have is for a single processor, the dual processor options is $6,700 online. http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bw1s15b0&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04
You are right. It was too good to be true.🙁
If you get the single CPU version for $3700 and buy the second 5680 for $1700 you end up with $5400.
They're different boards, as the T3500 use SP boards and related chipset (X58), while the T5500 uses a DP board and related chipset (5520).
So you won't be able to stuff a second processor in the T3500. You can however, order the T5500 with a single processor and add in a second one (and cooler) later on. But I wouldn't expect any savings by doing so.
Apple could at least be up front with us...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/821/macprowebsite.jpg
Please don't mind the horrible photo editing skills. I work with video on a regular basis, not photos. 😉
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/821/macprowebsite.jpg
Please don't mind the horrible photo editing skills. I work with video on a regular basis, not photos. 😉
Actually I priced out only the T7500 model which is dual-CPU capable. If you buy the cheapest T7500 with the single E5503 for $1436 and then spend $3400 for 2 5680 CPUs it would cost a total of $4800-4900 versus $6719 getting it with 2 5680's from Dell (and you could sell the E5503 or keep it as a chewtoy for your dog). So the cheapest way to get a dual 5680 system would be for about $4900 (Dell + CPUs installed by you).
If you downgrade to the X5650 (6-core, 2.66GHz) for $1020 (buy.com/provantage/newegg) each, you could get a 12-core system for a total of $3500.
I am wondering how that will compare to the MP 2010 with dual 6-core Westmeres?
Ah, that is the exact question I posed in another thread! There's lots of speculation about what Apple will or won't do for the 2010 MP. But one thing is for certain: if Dell can't build a 2x6 core workstation for less than $4900, then Apple sure as HELL ain't gonna have one less than $5000. More like not less than $5500.
So, if we take the current entry price points:
4 core: $2399
8 core: $3299
the question is: what are we mere mortals gonna get in a new MP at those prices?
Basically, a few little improvements: marginal speed increases, 1 TB hard drives, 4 or 8 GB DIMMs. But a 12 core fire breather for $3299? I think no way. 12 core MP is gonna cost $5599. If Dell wants $4999, Apple is gonna want more.
Again, what are we gonna get for $3299? My guess: 8 cores @ 2.4 GHz, 8 GB, 1 TB, and the rest is just what we got now. About what Dell gives for $2999.
YAWN! 🙂
Ah. Now I understand what you did. 😱 😀
It's not a bad way to do it, if one is willing. And I happen to like the balance of cost/performance of a pair of X5650's.
Good points. If Apple is smart they will throw in a new case to smooth this over. Although it will be the same old same old, we'll all want one.
This is the first shred of credible evidence i've seen to support delaying this hardware, and if apple expects to get back on intel's good side (it was reported they dropped to a 2nd tier customer) I can absolutely understand holding off a refresh to support lightpeak. If they throw in lightpeak, I wont be angry, because all that means, is yes we had to wait, but the computer will be extremely future proof. In all honesty, that's what 99% of Mac Pro buyers out there care about. Whether your a consumer, prosumer, or buy these for work, no one makes a 3k+ investment in hardware and wants to see new technology come out that they cant use (yeah sure you could probably buy a lightpeak card somewhere down the line, but that isnt very apple now is it)
xgman
macrumors 603
Well, this is likely what is happening, and I'm not happy about it. Although end of 2nd quarter isn't as bad as September. Reported by the French site Hardmac today:
"Intel informed its distribution networks that the 6 core Xeon will only be available in limited quantity until at the end of the second quarter.
If this is what prevents Apple from renewing its Mac Pro range, it could announce the new machines at the time of WWDC, history has shown that they do not forget that the Mac is, after all, still essential to develop software for the iPhone and iPad."
"Intel informed its distribution networks that the 6 core Xeon will only be available in limited quantity until at the end of the second quarter.
If this is what prevents Apple from renewing its Mac Pro range, it could announce the new machines at the time of WWDC, history has shown that they do not forget that the Mac is, after all, still essential to develop software for the iPhone and iPad."
The channel is getting tight on Xeon 5600s? Ok, WWDC it is, IMO. After all, when you think about it, iPhone devs are by far the biggest and most coveted group of "Pro Apple Users". Really, WWDC makes far more sense than NAB or something. Like I said earlier, devs will all be hyped up to make t3h awesumz new apps following the conference, and will be ripe for the pickings if Apple has a new workstation to give them. "I'm gonna make so much money on the App Store! I should invest in a new machine...need a Mac for iPhone development...OOH! Apple just released those new Gulftown towers with that zirconia case! Yeah, I'm getting one of those"