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New Newton - Not From Apple?
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Tommy Wasabi said:
Nice to know that I wasn't the only sucker to buy just about every model of the Newton. Except I bought the 120, 130 and 2000, which I upgraded to a 2100, just in time for Apple to pull the plug. That pretty much put me off Apple until I bought an iMac in September 2001, and then my 12" PB 1GHz in October 2003. Now I'm in love with Apple again.
Who knows - maybe the Newton rumor represents some kind of Buddhist cycle-thing: First you love Apple, then you hate Apple, then you love Apple...
What should be done is....
Take the Newton, add in a harddrive, 802.11b, bluetooth, iPod type music ability. Also, a web browser is important these days.
Anyway, start iwth that, update the processor and pick an OS. (Updated Newton OS or a scaled down OS X, I don't care which.)
Should it also be a cell phone? Probably not for various reasons. It should however with bluetooth be able to sync the phone database and use the cell phone for a dialup connection.
Take the Newton, add in a harddrive, 802.11b, bluetooth, iPod type music ability. Also, a web browser is important these days.
Anyway, start iwth that, update the processor and pick an OS. (Updated Newton OS or a scaled down OS X, I don't care which.)
Should it also be a cell phone? Probably not for various reasons. It should however with bluetooth be able to sync the phone database and use the cell phone for a dialup connection.
Tommy Wasabi said:
Hmm. I can see that... Put in a version of OS X with Inkwell launching standard, and build in Bluetooth as standard. Have a cover that flips open and stands it upright. Runs all current apps already, has handwriting built in. And you can use a keyboard without even plugging anything in.
Make it a little smaller than a 12' iBook, and Apple's got a winner.
Mr.Hey said:
The Wheels of Zeus are behind this?
I don't think so...
It would be hightly improbable...
Look all of the technology... resources... info...
Its all gone...
What as Apple to Sell besides the name and the very basic OS?
MrMacman said:The Wheels of Zeus are behind this?
I don't think so...
It would be hightly improbable...
Look all of the technology... resources... info...
Its all gone...
What as Apple to Sell besides the name and the very basic OS?
Patents, name and connection with Apple.
you're all wrong. there is no way that any of us can say what Apple is going to do. These past few years all they've done is surprise us with great hardware and software, a few rumors floated around before releases but Apple is hard to predict. They know what they are doing and all we can do is speculate and wait.
EDIT: Haha! "eat up martha"
EDIT: Haha! "eat up martha"
Excuse my stupidity..but
If the iPod (which with 40Gb of space available is pretty mental!) had a face lift, say a colour screen comparable with - well a sony mobile phone (Apple/Sony rumors?), and a plug in keyboard so that when you're out jogging it's just an iPod but when you're at home you can update your contacts), and more software architecture to run applications (ie - QT mpg4 (as on mobile phones), read pdfs and other formats (as on some mobile phones), store files as an external HD and browse the internet in a Safari like manner (well Apple already has it's own browser - why not put a slim version into hand-helds?) - you'd have something that does pretty much what is needed for the youth market without going the whole hog and use it as a springboard to launch something late next year. Or maybe even connect the new Newton/iPod (iNewt) to an external display - maybe even use it as a PVR with all that disk space (hmmm). Now that would be interesting, don't you think?
If the iPod (which with 40Gb of space available is pretty mental!) had a face lift, say a colour screen comparable with - well a sony mobile phone (Apple/Sony rumors?), and a plug in keyboard so that when you're out jogging it's just an iPod but when you're at home you can update your contacts), and more software architecture to run applications (ie - QT mpg4 (as on mobile phones), read pdfs and other formats (as on some mobile phones), store files as an external HD and browse the internet in a Safari like manner (well Apple already has it's own browser - why not put a slim version into hand-helds?) - you'd have something that does pretty much what is needed for the youth market without going the whole hog and use it as a springboard to launch something late next year. Or maybe even connect the new Newton/iPod (iNewt) to an external display - maybe even use it as a PVR with all that disk space (hmmm). Now that would be interesting, don't you think?
I think I could see this happening. Palm is turning it's back on the Mac and Apple knows what people like, look at the iPod series. For a new Newton like device to be successful in today's world it would have to have the following:
#1) Mac OS X or Newton like Operating system
#2) Color Screen with Handwriting Recondition
#3) Wi-Fi and Bluetooth for communication and file transfers
#4) iChat AV like program for use with #3 and #5
#5) Cell phone like compatibility
#6) Word processing
#7) Simple/Fun Games
#8) Multimedia compatibility for Video and Audio
#9) Optional mini-camera for video/audio used with #4 or alone
#10) A good size hard disk drive for storage (1-4 GB)
I don't think IrDA would be needed ,but I guess it could be optional, maybe a small expansion slot can be used with a camera or IRDA card. USB maybe? Or Bluetooth (although bluetooth is rather slow) A high speed port should be on the device also, maybe FireWire or USB 2.0. Also the device should be easily upgradable. It would be very cool if you could watch videos or listen to music on the device also.
This is what I would like to see in a Newton like device. This would be very cool...and very very expensive
#1) Mac OS X or Newton like Operating system
#2) Color Screen with Handwriting Recondition
#3) Wi-Fi and Bluetooth for communication and file transfers
#4) iChat AV like program for use with #3 and #5
#5) Cell phone like compatibility
#6) Word processing
#7) Simple/Fun Games
#8) Multimedia compatibility for Video and Audio
#9) Optional mini-camera for video/audio used with #4 or alone
#10) A good size hard disk drive for storage (1-4 GB)
I don't think IrDA would be needed ,but I guess it could be optional, maybe a small expansion slot can be used with a camera or IRDA card. USB maybe? Or Bluetooth (although bluetooth is rather slow) A high speed port should be on the device also, maybe FireWire or USB 2.0. Also the device should be easily upgradable. It would be very cool if you could watch videos or listen to music on the device also.
This is what I would like to see in a Newton like device. This would be very cool...and very very expensive
Newton does it
All of these programs/utilities are the result of talented and dedicated private developers. Are these programs perfect? No. Does the OS limit what can be done? Yes. But just think... If the Newton can do this based on an OS frozen in 1998 (not to mention old hardware and processors), imagine what could be done if the OS had continued to be modernized and improved. I do all the time...
Owners of the final Newton MessagePad, the 2100, can right now:Bear said:
- WiFi/802.11b
- Bluetooth
- MP3 streaming/storage/playback
- Web browsing Courier | Newtscape
- AIM & Jabber instant messaging
- NES emulation
- VNC (server & client)
- IMAP mail
- iCal/Address book syncing
- ATA memory card support (512mb - 1gb flash storage)
All of these programs/utilities are the result of talented and dedicated private developers. Are these programs perfect? No. Does the OS limit what can be done? Yes. But just think... If the Newton can do this based on an OS frozen in 1998 (not to mention old hardware and processors), imagine what could be done if the OS had continued to be modernized and improved. I do all the time...
hmmm
The WOZ device is supposed to be a mid range (city wide) wireless locator type device I thought. Possibly subdermal?
My wish is for a Newton with enhanced newton/NExT OS. It would be so awesome... so long as it had a better screen rez than the PDA crap already out there, Phone, wifi, and iSight/iChat compatibility. Even if it used a stripped down G3. and MINIMUM 40 Gb upgradable 2 inch drive. Palm/PocketPC/phone devices are too small for the eyes. Screens are too small. a 3x5 inch screen would be better for color stuff. They just need to keep it thin and light.
Mr.Hey said:
The WOZ device is supposed to be a mid range (city wide) wireless locator type device I thought. Possibly subdermal?
My wish is for a Newton with enhanced newton/NExT OS. It would be so awesome... so long as it had a better screen rez than the PDA crap already out there, Phone, wifi, and iSight/iChat compatibility. Even if it used a stripped down G3. and MINIMUM 40 Gb upgradable 2 inch drive. Palm/PocketPC/phone devices are too small for the eyes. Screens are too small. a 3x5 inch screen would be better for color stuff. They just need to keep it thin and light.
wHo_tHe said:Owners of the final Newton MessagePad, the 2100, can right now:
- WiFi/802.11b
- Bluetooth
- MP3 streaming/storage/playback
- Web browsing Courier | Newtscape
- AIM & Jabber instant messaging
- NES emulation
- VNC (server & client)
- IMAP mail
- iCal/Address book syncing
- ATA memory card support (512mb - 1gb flash storage)
All of these programs/utilities are the result of talented and dedicated private developers. Are these programs perfect? No. Does the OS limit what can be done? Yes. But just think... If the Newton can do this based on an OS frozen in 1998 (not to mention old hardware and processors), imagine what could be done if the OS had continued to be modernized and improved. I do all the time...
Yeah, this is one of the things that, every now and then, makes me want to get a MP2100 from eBay...
I'd love to see an up-to-date version of the Newton released. We can hope...
There is one reason, and one reason only that this won't happen. Steve CAN NOT sell Newton, or any other major Apple technology because if someone else buys the technology, and it succeeds, that means trouble for Steve from the board (i.e. "Look how much money Apple could have made!!!").
It won't happen, so don't get too excited.
It won't happen, so don't get too excited.
Apple is too busy trying to get #1 marketshares in things besides computers now. If Apple releases a Newton, just watch them push it hard and create PC-Compatibility, like they did with the iPod. All of theses devices have been giving profits to Apple and not helping our struggle against PCs.
I want to see more Mac users, not iPod-wielding PC users.
If a Newton is released, make sure it expands the Mac marketshare, not give more pretty devices to consumers. Give us devices that can stay Mac-only Apple. Force the PC users over to our side if they want to use fun devices.
I want to see more Mac users, not iPod-wielding PC users.
If a Newton is released, make sure it expands the Mac marketshare, not give more pretty devices to consumers. Give us devices that can stay Mac-only Apple. Force the PC users over to our side if they want to use fun devices.
Azuran said:
Why? Obviously there are people who are gonna buy it because it is got an apple logo on it, also if it comes out with OS-X it's some what practical. Although the worry for apple may be getting the ipod and a Newton's role mixed up. They would have to make the newton either hard to listen to music on or more likely price range difference and with ipods already selling at up to $500.....
Apple Newton PowerPod
I think (hope) those who claim to want Mac OS X in their Newton really only mean they want the user experience of OS X and some modern, essential technologies supported by OS X. IMHO, a revived Newton should run an evolution of NewtonOS (which was designed with portable-computing uses and form factors in mind), rather than a shrunken OS X, proper (which was designed with ever-expanding CPU capacities and display resolutions in mind). I propose that an evolved NewtonOS should retain its basic original technology and character but receive an attractive, Aqua-esque GUI update, visually resembling OS X+Aqua but suitable for use on a modern, high-res but small, color touchscreen (IMHO not much if any larger than a 3x5" index card for the device's entire face), and of course made compatible with modern technologies (USB, FireWire, Airport Extreme/WiFi, Bluetooth, iSync, QuickTime, POP3/IMAP, etc.etc.etc.).
Think about it: would you really want to wait for a Newton running "OS X Lite" to boot up, then have to login, etc.? No, PDAs need to be instant-on, and whilst an iPod-esque mass-storage drive would obviously be a must (and the "user's roaming home folder" idea is intriguing), the device's OS must reside in firmware. For another thing, would you really want to regularly use OS X+Aqua shrunken down to the size of an index card? No, PDAs need an interface tailored to their small resolutions and screen sizes, and whilst it may be possible to use OS X+Aqua shrunken to such a tiny size, and the visual appeal of Aqua is obviously compelling, it's not an ideal direct-fit. The "message" (GUI) must fit the "medium" (screen size/res/depth); a message designed for one medium (OS X+Aqua for large, high-res monitors) should not be used for a completely different medium (small, modest-res PDA screens). A NewtonOS that looks like OS X+Aqua would work just fine, but an actual OS X+Aqua shrunken and crippled to run on a Newton, not so much.
A dock connector (similar to the iPods') would reduce port proliferation and keep the device small while allowing all manner of optional accessories (mic, camera lens, USB keyboard/mouse, DVD drive, larger external screen, etc.) to be attached without having to add bulk by bundling them all into the main device. Of course, iPod and cellphone functionality should be integrated, with onscreen "virtual" controls or voice-command; otherwise, this thing is just another chunk of "digital clutter" to carry around (reducing proliferative clutter is compelling, but adding to it is deterring). The Newton's hallmark "Assist" function could be applied to voice-commands as well as handwriting; e.g., cellphone functions should be almost entirely usable via headphones/mic alone without having to operate controls on the main device (e.g., When you say, "Newton: Call Steve", it dials Steve's number, or say, "Newton: Save number for Dan, 555-1212", it saves that # to internal addybook for Dan, to be iSync'd later, etc.)
Oh, and fer chrissakes, Steve's a smart, shrewd guy who didn't get where he is today, and get Apple and Pixar where they are today, by playing petty political grudge games out of spite, for sheer shiznits and giggles. He didn't suspend the Newton because Sculley was its daddy, nor because the Newton was any kind of "failure" that was getting "beaten" by Palm; rather, Apple was in dire straits and Steve simply had to make the tough decision to axe everything that was not rock-bottom, bare-essential, instantly-profitable and -popular product, and dedicate all resources to those four remaining products alone (iMac, iBook, PowerMac, PowerBook), to get the company healthy again. The Newton, while still promising and growing at the time, wasn't anywhere near as essential for the co's immediate survival as those Big 4 products were, so Steve had its plug pulled and (we can only hope) its assets archived. Simply a tough business decision with Apple in a tough, make-or-break spot, nothing more than that.
If it's not running NewtonOS (or a modernization thereof), then it's not really a "Newton", proper, is it? Not any more than a G5 running Linux (or worse, that X-Box devkit Windows kludge) could really be called a Mac, proper. In each case, the design of the OS, and particularly its GUI, is what makes the machine what it is, and special for being just that (curious how many ppl think of their "OS" as being little more than the visible presentation of the OS's interface, which I guess demonstrates the effectiveness of visual-metaphor-based GUIs!).Photorun said:I guess I was thinking more along the lines of would it be OS X-ish.arn said:Newton OS.Photorun said:Intriguing, very intriguing. I wonder what OS it'd run?
I think (hope) those who claim to want Mac OS X in their Newton really only mean they want the user experience of OS X and some modern, essential technologies supported by OS X. IMHO, a revived Newton should run an evolution of NewtonOS (which was designed with portable-computing uses and form factors in mind), rather than a shrunken OS X, proper (which was designed with ever-expanding CPU capacities and display resolutions in mind). I propose that an evolved NewtonOS should retain its basic original technology and character but receive an attractive, Aqua-esque GUI update, visually resembling OS X+Aqua but suitable for use on a modern, high-res but small, color touchscreen (IMHO not much if any larger than a 3x5" index card for the device's entire face), and of course made compatible with modern technologies (USB, FireWire, Airport Extreme/WiFi, Bluetooth, iSync, QuickTime, POP3/IMAP, etc.etc.etc.).
Think about it: would you really want to wait for a Newton running "OS X Lite" to boot up, then have to login, etc.? No, PDAs need to be instant-on, and whilst an iPod-esque mass-storage drive would obviously be a must (and the "user's roaming home folder" idea is intriguing), the device's OS must reside in firmware. For another thing, would you really want to regularly use OS X+Aqua shrunken down to the size of an index card? No, PDAs need an interface tailored to their small resolutions and screen sizes, and whilst it may be possible to use OS X+Aqua shrunken to such a tiny size, and the visual appeal of Aqua is obviously compelling, it's not an ideal direct-fit. The "message" (GUI) must fit the "medium" (screen size/res/depth); a message designed for one medium (OS X+Aqua for large, high-res monitors) should not be used for a completely different medium (small, modest-res PDA screens). A NewtonOS that looks like OS X+Aqua would work just fine, but an actual OS X+Aqua shrunken and crippled to run on a Newton, not so much.
A dock connector (similar to the iPods') would reduce port proliferation and keep the device small while allowing all manner of optional accessories (mic, camera lens, USB keyboard/mouse, DVD drive, larger external screen, etc.) to be attached without having to add bulk by bundling them all into the main device. Of course, iPod and cellphone functionality should be integrated, with onscreen "virtual" controls or voice-command; otherwise, this thing is just another chunk of "digital clutter" to carry around (reducing proliferative clutter is compelling, but adding to it is deterring). The Newton's hallmark "Assist" function could be applied to voice-commands as well as handwriting; e.g., cellphone functions should be almost entirely usable via headphones/mic alone without having to operate controls on the main device (e.g., When you say, "Newton: Call Steve", it dials Steve's number, or say, "Newton: Save number for Dan, 555-1212", it saves that # to internal addybook for Dan, to be iSync'd later, etc.)
Oh, and fer chrissakes, Steve's a smart, shrewd guy who didn't get where he is today, and get Apple and Pixar where they are today, by playing petty political grudge games out of spite, for sheer shiznits and giggles. He didn't suspend the Newton because Sculley was its daddy, nor because the Newton was any kind of "failure" that was getting "beaten" by Palm; rather, Apple was in dire straits and Steve simply had to make the tough decision to axe everything that was not rock-bottom, bare-essential, instantly-profitable and -popular product, and dedicate all resources to those four remaining products alone (iMac, iBook, PowerMac, PowerBook), to get the company healthy again. The Newton, while still promising and growing at the time, wasn't anywhere near as essential for the co's immediate survival as those Big 4 products were, so Steve had its plug pulled and (we can only hope) its assets archived. Simply a tough business decision with Apple in a tough, make-or-break spot, nothing more than that.
I loved the Newton. I had several... a 100, a 130, and a 2100. Also had an eMate. They were pretty cool, except for the fact that they were HUGE. I am sure that could be whittled down quite a bit, and I think they would sell enough, at the right price point, to be worth doing. I hope they do, but I am not so sure it will happen. Hope so.
Anyway, the notion that it is impossible to do it, is just stupid. Seriously. Where do you people get idiot notions like that? No one is left at Apple that could do Newton.. What a dunderheaded thing to say. It's not hieroglyphics.. we don't need to find some Rosetta stone to figure out how to work one.. People release new software for the damned COLECOVISION for God's sake... There are plenty of folks out there that would drop everything and live in their cars in Apple's parking lot to work on the Newton.
If Apple wants to do it, it could be done. If Apple wants to set up another company to do it, it could be done even quicker.
Anyway, the notion that it is impossible to do it, is just stupid. Seriously. Where do you people get idiot notions like that? No one is left at Apple that could do Newton.. What a dunderheaded thing to say. It's not hieroglyphics.. we don't need to find some Rosetta stone to figure out how to work one.. People release new software for the damned COLECOVISION for God's sake... There are plenty of folks out there that would drop everything and live in their cars in Apple's parking lot to work on the Newton.
If Apple wants to do it, it could be done. If Apple wants to set up another company to do it, it could be done even quicker.
pcp_ip said:
Actually, it very well COULD happen, and here's why: Palm announced ab out two weeks ago they were discontinuing Mac support in all of their PDAs. Thatmeans that at the moment, the only PDA manufacturer making PDAs that will run on a Mac is Sony. That means that there is an opening in the market for someone to fill the viod left by Palm's departure from the Mac platform.
AmigoMac said:Nooooooo! I want it from apple! ...
I think Apple sold it for about $500 Million to some company.
That's what the guy who wrote Apple confidentiality 2.0 told Leo Laporte on the Screen Saver.
**Gets down on his hands and knees and begs Jobs** Give the OS to someone else if you aren't going to do anything with it.
PLEASE GOD LET THIS BE TRUE!!
PLEASE GOD LET THIS BE TRUE!!
Don't fret. The Treo 600 is the answer. PDA's are a dying product. Smart phones are the future. A few p[eople who will buy anything associated with Apple isn't a business model, the product need to have rea,l prositve benifits and a good market position. The Newton is history.
Now an Apple smart phone as well designed as the iPod... now that would be interesting.
Now an Apple smart phone as well designed as the iPod... now that would be interesting.
Apple Newton PowerPod
Ah, found what I was looking for earlier: the OQO micro-PC (just couldn't remember the name before, kept bumping into ergonomic kitchen utensils instead). If you remember this one but haven't checked into it lately... it's improved dramatically and impressively. However, it only runs Windows (or perhaps some Unices as well) . IMHO, Apple (or whomever) could better this device by making a similar form factor (tho' I'd prefer it a bit thinner yet) work more like a Newton+iPod+cellphone, rather than like a shrunken desktop.
Imagine this kinda thing, but running an instant-on (and power-efficient) firmware OS supporting most current, popular media and Internet/networking standards, and with a GUI designed for mobile/portable touchscreen computing at that small screen size. No waiting for bootups or having to carry it around everywhere "not dead but dreaming" (i.e., booted-but-sleeping), and no squinting over the shrunken GUI of a desktop OS; better yet, it replaces your PDA, your cellphone, your iPod, and your casual-use digicam, too (with the optional Bluetooth miniSight accessory ). Simply keep it in your pocket, purse or holster for most typical music-playing and phone activities (optional Bluetooth mini remote controller also available {I'm thinking here of a micro-miniPod that only acts as a wireless remote--oh say, and this could contain the camera lens, too, nevermind that miniSight idea... Man, I'm full of 'em tonight--or maybe just full of IT...}).
Man, a device like that would be, as they say, da shizzle (or then again, maybe that's what I'm full of...).
SubGothius said:
Ah, found what I was looking for earlier: the OQO micro-PC (just couldn't remember the name before, kept bumping into ergonomic kitchen utensils instead
). If you remember this one but haven't checked into it lately... it's improved dramatically and impressively. However, it only runs Windows (or perhaps some Unices as well) . IMHO, Apple (or whomever) could better this device by making a similar form factor (tho' I'd prefer it a bit thinner yet) work more like a Newton+iPod+cellphone, rather than like a shrunken desktop.Imagine this kinda thing, but running an instant-on (and power-efficient) firmware OS supporting most current, popular media and Internet/networking standards, and with a GUI designed for mobile/portable touchscreen computing at that small screen size. No waiting for bootups or having to carry it around everywhere "not dead but dreaming" (i.e., booted-but-sleeping
), and no squinting over the shrunken GUI of a desktop OS; better yet, it replaces your PDA, your cellphone, your iPod, and your casual-use digicam, too (with the optional Bluetooth miniSight accessory ). Simply keep it in your pocket, purse or holster for most typical music-playing and phone activities (optional Bluetooth mini remote controller also available {I'm thinking here of a micro-miniPod that only acts as a wireless remote--oh say, and this could contain the camera lens, too, nevermind that miniSight idea... Man, I'm full of 'em tonight--or maybe just full of IT...}).Man, a device like that would be, as they say, da shizzle (or then again, maybe that's what I'm full of...).
tntoak said:
Palm abandoned mac software support because isync and ical were better solutions than palm desktop. Palm is not wasting development time and money on supporting rolling their own software. Ical and Isync are default install items on OSX. Why would they compete with that? You palm will be supported fine by apple just like all the insync-able cellphones. Cellphone manufactures never made Macintosh sync tools themselves- and with isync there's no reason for them to start.
Again. This will never happen.