New Newton - Not From Apple?

[pcp_ip]

I loved the Newton. I had several... a 100, a 130, and a 2100. Also had an eMate. They were pretty cool, except for the fact that they were HUGE. I am sure that could be whittled down quite a bit, and I think they would sell enough, at the right price point, to be worth doing. I hope they do, but I am not so sure it will happen. Hope so.

Anyway, the notion that it is impossible to do it, is just stupid. Seriously. Where do you people get idiot notions like that? No one is left at Apple that could do Newton.. What a dunderheaded thing to say. It's not hieroglyphics.. we don't need to find some Rosetta stone to figure out how to work one.. People release new software for the damned COLECOVISION for God's sake... There are plenty of folks out there that would drop everything and live in their cars in Apple's parking lot to work on the Newton.

If Apple wants to do it, it could be done. If Apple wants to set up another company to do it, it could be done even quicker.

Just keep waiting for that new Newton. We'll see who the "dunderhead" is.

 

[Trimix]

Nooooooo! I want it from apple! ...

Agree, it's not the same if from someone else

 

[IndyGopher]

Just keep waiting for that new Newton. We'll see who the "dunderhead" is.

Since I made it quite clear that I thought it would be nice, and not something that I expect, I can only conclude that you are illiterate. That makes it easier on both of us, since you now no longer have to struggle through my posts, and I won't have to bother reading yours. Thanks.

Not being a viable product, and being impossible, are radically different states of being. You couldn't very well expect to successfully market used Kleenex, but you would be an idiot to say that you can't PRODUCE used Kleenex.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Agree, it's not the same if from someone else

Gift horse dude. Gift horse. There is a snowballs chance in hell of Jobs releasing a Newton. The only really viable option is someone else stepping up to the plate. And to be fair there are companies that make hardware that is as good, if not better then Apple's. I for one hope this works out. This could bring a new revolutionary device to the market. I just hope Apple has some input into the revamp of the software. The OS itself needs to be updated. The concepts in the Newton OS are good but also are a bit dated.

16-bit color, 800 x 600, WIFI, BlueTooth, better H/W recognition, OS streamlined to act more like OS X (Only to a point since the interface needs to be tailored to such a small screen and a different input method.)
I would be first in line at the Apple store for one and would drop up to a grand for a new Newton.

Use your imagination with the above picture.

 

[pcp_ip]

Since I made it quite clear that I thought it would be nice, and not something that I expect, I can only conclude that you are illiterate. That makes it easier on both of us, since you now no longer have to struggle through my posts, and I won't have to bother reading yours. Thanks.

Not being a viable product, and being impossible, are radically different states of being. You couldn't very well expect to successfully market used Kleenex, but you would be an idiot to say that you can't PRODUCE used Kleenex.

As Newton was Sculley's 'baby' it's chances of surviving under Jobs, then, were limited. In the summer of '97, Apple announced that the Newton Technology Group was to be spun off as an independent company. Then, weeks later this plan was canned. As a result, many Newton developers, programmers and technicians, defected to other companies - the vast majority going to Palm Computing. They knew that Jobs was not behind the Newton project and decided to jump ship.

With most of the Newton team disbanded, and the knowledge that made the Newton gone with them, Apple had no choice but to shut down the entire project. The Newton technology was lost.

What was salvageable by Apple (data soups -> opendoc, handwriting recognition -> inkwell) was reused. The rest is gone.

So my "literate" friend. A new Newton built by a third party-- based on the original Newton technology-- is IMPOSSIBLE. The key parts are currently in use or have been used by Apple, and will not be licensed out.

A new device built from scratch that is Newton "like" is possible. But as I've said-- if YOU can read-- it's not going to happen.

 

[DStaal]

Palm abandoned mac software support because isync and ical were better solutions than palm desktop. Palm is not wasting development time and money on supporting rolling their own software. Ical and Isync are default install items on OSX. Why would they compete with that? You palm will be supported fine by apple just like all the insync-able cellphones. Cellphone manufactures never made Macintosh sync tools themselves- and with isync there's no reason for them to start.

iSync needs Palm Desktop to be installed to sync to a Palm. It uses Palm's drivers. If Palm had only dropped Palm Desktop (but not the drivers) I would agree with you.

 

[Snowy_River]

...The key parts are currently in use or have been used by Apple, and will not be licensed out...

I'm curious to know how you know what will and won't be licensed out. Do you think that if it's a technology that's currently in use that it can't be licensed? If so, then I'm sorry to tell you that you're gravely mistaken. So, by your own admission, there are several technologies that were central to the Newton that could be licensed to a third party (whether or not you think they will be).

 

[DJMad]

unless there is somthing totally new about this PDA over others I think it is a waste of time and money to devolop a new newton. With isync and my iPod I already have all my contacts and calendar with me. Yeah it would be cool if it had WiFi so you could check your email or get the latest news from the bathroom instead of using your computer, but with my TiBook I can already move around the house and use the internet. Maybe if they incorporated it with a cellphone that would be cool because then you could use the internet anywhere which I might actually use. If they took that a step further and added support for all versions of GSM so you could use it anywhere in the world by just buying a simcard like you can in throughout Europe and Asia they might have a winner.

 

[Snowy_River]

Palm abandoned mac software support because isync and ical were better solutions than palm desktop. Palm is not wasting development time and money on supporting rolling their own software. Ical and Isync are default install items on OSX. Why would they compete with that? You palm will be supported fine by apple just like all the insync-able cellphones. Cellphone manufactures never made Macintosh sync tools themselves- and with isync there's no reason for them to start.

Again. This will never happen.

Uh...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but iSync doesn't offer a direct connection to Palm devices. It can only sync to Palm devices through the HotSync conduits. So, unless Apple expands iSync's capabilities to include direct connection with Palm devices, Palm's HotSync is by no means competing with iSync. And, even if Apple does engineer such an expansion of iSync, that would still leave Mac users high and dry when it comes to syncing audio notes, or pictures, etc. And how about loading new Palm apps onto your Palm device? There is no capability in iSync to allow for that...

 

[pcp_ip]

I'm curious to know how you know what will and won't be licensed out. Do you think that if it's a technology that's currently in use that it can't be licensed? If so, then I'm sorry to tell you that you're gravely mistaken. So, by your own admission, there are several technologies that were central to the Newton that could be licensed to a third party (whether or not you think they will be).

AFAIK Inkwell and the Newton handwriting recognition is still superior to the handwriting recognition on Windows tablets. I find it hard to believe Steve will be willing to let third parties play with that technology. The MP2100 was a long way from "Eat Up Martha."

Hope springs eternal. Stone Multimedia's market research should prove there's demand. The fact that people get so worked up every 6 months believing that an iwalk/newton type device is coming from Apple cleary shows there's a market for this imaginary device.

 

[pcp_ip]

Uh...

Who knows the next version of isync will bring? Apple is a licensed Palm developer. The licensees just received Cobalt on January 6, 2004. The current Palm Desktop is sitting on the Apple servers for download.

If you're so sure Apple has the ability to make/license a new Newton, surely they have a plan to handle PalmOS6 when it hits the streets.

 

[Snowy_River]

... I find it hard to believe Steve will be willing to let third parties play with that technology...

Well, that's a big difference from what you originally said. Saying that you find something hard for you to believe is very different than saying that it is impossible.

 

[Snowy_River]

Who knows the next version of isync will bring? Apple is a licensed Palm developer. The licensees just received Cobalt on January 6, 2004. The current Palm Desktop is sitting on the Apple servers for download.

If you're so sure Apple has the ability to make/license a new Newton, surely they have a plan to handle PalmOS6 when it hits the streets.

Again, this isn't what you said to begin with!! You said:

Palm abandoned mac software support because isync [was a] better solution...

Now you're saying that iSync could be a competitor to Palm HotSync?

You seem to like to change your argument mid-stride and act as if you've been saying the same thing all along. Now, maybe you're just being forced to say what you really meant at the beginning. If that's the case, I'd encourage you to try to say what you mean from the start...

 

[Cheezy13]

The technology is too old now. They'd need major development to add color and rebuild the OS to run on faster chips.

I don't agree with that. I was told that color was already implemented in Newton OS 2.x by then, but they never made it to the screen unfortunately.
It knew how to deal with color. It's just that the screen didn't…

My ideal new Newton would only need a color screen, a bit more power and memory, firewire and bluetooth, new, sleeker, case design and that's it.

 

[pcp_ip]

Well, that's a big difference from what you originally said. Saying that you find something hard for you to believe is very different than saying that it is impossible.

YOU WILL NOT SEE A NEW NEWTON.

Clearly you have a problem with that. You believe a new Newton is coming.

Anything is possible. You being a nice well mannered person is possible. However you will never see an Apple Newton or a Newton made by a multimedia production company, let alone anyone else. You may see an Apple tablet or phone- but Newton and it's technology is dead. Sharp PDAs run linux, it's not a far stretch to assume Apple could squeeze the Mach kernel into a device. The iPod has some basic PDA functions.

A device from Apple is POSSIBLE. A device based on the Newton is IMPOSSIBLE.

We disagree with the future of Newton. Deal with it.

As for Palm. Palm is no longer supporting Palm Desktop because iCal does the trick - for *shipping* Palms. Our marketshare is too small to warrant an investment to rewrite Desktop to handle the completely new OS. Hopefully you understand that?!?! Palm didn't even write it in the first place- Claris did. The day to day use of current Palms can handled by isync and hotsync (which triggers all your conduits through isync). Palm desktop is not needed everyday if you use iSync. You configure hotsync once- and for most users that's it. I can promise you there will be a solution to replacing hotsync when the time comes.

Even after Palm6 comes out, Palm Desktop will still be supported by PalmOne on the OS < 6 devices. You can use it to sync/install all the packages you want. Palm Desktop is on the Apple servers- available for anyone to download. Current Palm users have not been stranded as you lead everyone to believe. I'll bet OS5 handhelds will still be sold when 6.0 devices come out... and they'll still say "Mac Compatible."

You're complaining that isync doesn't support Cobalt devices that haven't even shipped yet? How could it? Your argument is insane. Why don't we revisit this when the first non-mac compatible Palms come out.

Hotsync didn't stop working the day they PalmOne said they were ending development.

I guess you'll never be able to install items on a Palm device again. I'm amazed that Apple would abandon all of the Palm users. There are more Palm based devices supported than devices from other providers. Seems like a lot of users for Apple to abandon, but again- you know best.

Maybe you should license the Newton technology from Apple?

 

[pcp_ip]

-

 

[SiliconAddict]

What was salvageable by Apple (data soups -> opendoc, handwriting recognition -> inkwell) was reused. The rest is gone.

Sorry but I call BS on that one. No company in their right mind just tosses code when its just as easy to archive it and dump it in a vault somewhere. The Newton OS source is in the bowels of Apple somewhere.

 

[pcp_ip]

Sorry but I call BS on that one. No company in their right mind just tosses code when its just as easy to archive it and dump it in a vault somewhere. The Newton OS source is in the bowels of Apple somewhere.

I never said code was tossed. Someone else posted that there is a rumor that the original hard drive that contain the Newton OS was lost. I don't know anything about that.

What I've always known through Apple employees that I've worked with: When Steve pulled Newton Inc. back into Apple anyone that knew anything about the Newton and it's development jumped ship. The brain drain stole the working knowledge of how to piece it together. Whether it's improperly commented code, missing hard drives, bad management, bad documentation, spiteful ex-employees - I have no idea. I do know what was worthwhile to Apple was saved and reused. The rest is probably on an a/ux server in Cupertino.

It's a fact that there's no one left at Apple with intimate knowledge of NOS.

 

[aswitcher]

I think the A/V iPod might as well be a real PDA.
Does anyone thing we will not see an A/V iPod in the next 2 years?
Might as well make it a PDA...little more cost for much more functionality

 

[The Expatriate]

Hey, maybe I'm not so stupid... nah?

Well what do ya know, it looks like my premonition of a colour screen iPod was right (?), it will only be a short hop skip and a leap before we see multi-media iPods before the end of next year (if Apple are going to pursue their stakes in the portable entertainment market, they'll have to keep up the development front and eventually supersede the iPod with something even better - a new Newt?).

For the moment though the iPod architecture has all the necessary resources to make the leap from music to audio/visual content. A PVR (Personal Video Recorder) similar to the Thomson Lyra (quote from the Mail on Sunday March 7th) -

"But the final word on how good the (Thomson) PDP-2860 is goes to portable entertainment masters Sony and Apple - both companies have announced they are developing their own rival video machines."

Apple are getting closer and closer to a Newton iPod convergence offering a/v entertainment and business support. The next big thing will be iPods with built in modems and wi-fi to download content from .Mac storage.

The future is bright, and it's Apple - not orange, hehe.

 

[pcp_ip]

the abridged history of palm/newton/be/next/osx is quite interesting and incestuous. As you can see Apple has crossed the PDA path many times:


1985 - Steve Jobs is forced out of Apple

1990 - Be Inc. is founded by ex-Apple head of Europe Jean-Louis Gassé

1992 - Palm Inc. is founded

1993 - Scully launches Newton MessagePad

1995 - U.S. Robotics buys Palm

1996 - Amelio buys NeXT w/Jobs (instead of Be Inc.) to "buy" OSX

1997 - 3Com purchases U.S. Robotics
1997 - Amelio spins Newton off as it's own company
1997 - Jobs squeezes Amelio out of Apple
1997 - Jobs brings Newton back into Apple
1997 - The Newton team begins exodous to 3Com/Palm and others

1998 - Jobs kills Newton development
1998 - Jobs declares "Apple will produce a new Newton"
1998 - 3com buys Claris Organizer from Apple (Currrent Palm Desktop)
1998 - Hawkins, Dubinsky and Colligan leave Palm to create Handspring

2000 - Palm IPOs
2000 - Handspring IPOs

2001 - Jobs tries to buy and/or license Palm Inc.
2001 - Palm buys Be Inc. to "buy" OS6

2003 - Palm buys Handspring
2003 - Jobs tells shareholders that Apple will never make a PDA

2004 - Palm announces OS6 will not be supported on Macs


Remember from 1998 until now there's been nothing but iWalk/ApplePDA/Newton rumors every 6 months.

 

[Snowy_River]

YOU WILL NOT SEE A NEW NEWTON.

Clearly you have a problem with that. You believe a new Newton is coming.

Pardon. I have to ask, when did I ever say that I believed a new Newton was coming?

The closest that I've said to that is:

I'd love to see an up-to-date version of the Newton released. We can hope...

Please, don't put words in my mouth.

A device from Apple is POSSIBLE. A device based on the Newton is IMPOSSIBLE.

And Inigo says: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"

As for Palm... Our marketshare is too small to warrant an investment to rewrite Desktop to handle the completely new OS...

And, again, you're changing your argument. Now you're saying that the reason that Palm chose to abandon the Mac is because the marketshare is too small. Yes, this may be the case. But this has nothing to do with iSync!

Honestly, why are you throwing such insulting posts around? All I've tried to do is suggest that some of your arguments don't make sense. You've done nothing but turn around and insult me, change your arguments, and insist that you've been right from the beginning. (I am exagerating a little, but I'm trying to make a point.) If you have an argument to make, then make it. If it's flawed, accept it when it's pointed out to you, or defend it reasonably. But throwing insults back in the face of the person who's offerring a counter argument is not a good way to defend your point of view.

 

[pcp_ip]

Honestly, why are you throwing such insulting posts around?

Whatever. None of this is worth it.
This used to be such a better place to discuss things.

 

[bensisko]

And Inigo says: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means".

THANK YOU!!
I hate when people throw around the word "Impossible." Strictly speaking, NOTHING is impossible, just highly improbable. While a new Newton (or any Apple PDA) is highly improbable, it is NOT "Impossible"!! (I would have thought that, when dealing with Steve Jobs, people would know better than to say something is "impossible" or "won't be done".) Having said that, I do not believe Apple will produce something like this.

Oh, and for the person who said the Treo 600 is the answer, I had to laugh!! While the Treo 600 is a capable machine, and it probable works for some people, I would NEVER be able to rely on the Treo 600 for my mobile needs. It's a great phone, but it would never replace my Newton OR my Toshiba e750.

 

[cornboy]

I'd buy one. All the other PDA's for Mac suck. I want a PDA that works just as smooth with my computer as my iPod does.

But isn't the ipod just a spit away from being a PDA, it has a calendar, it has contacts, it plays music, you can record memos, store documents - yep, you can do most anything that most people do with a PDA. All SJ has to do is decide to go the whole hog.