New PowerMac...thoughts?

[jefhatfield]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for actually backing yourself up.

Originally posted by alex_ant

I've been following this thread and I think jefhatfield must have misattributed who said what to the quoting or something, and means to be talking to mischief instead. Don't worry, he's like 96 and half senile, so we give him a little leeway.

There are plenty of great trolls on this site. You're lucky you got an "it's nice to see someone who backs himself up" out of your opponent, because rarely does that even happen. Usually you'll get someone who either stops posting once their bull**** is disproven (therefore not conceding) or someone who refuses to admit their wrongness and resorts to "you're an idiot and I refuse to discuss this with you anymore" type statements etc. It takes a big man/woman to admit being wrong, which leads me to conclude that Macrumors is comprised largely of children.

Alex

sometimes i feel 96 LMAO...i love it...that would make 3rd path 100 since he's four years older than me...i was six years too young to go to vietnam so i am not really that old compared to some, but on chat sites about computers, i often am the oldest one logged on

and i learn more from the young posters than from seasoned pros or college grads

more than anything, being a pc guy in the real world, i like to use my ibook and be in the mac world, where things work

wouldn't that be nice if the other 95 percent had macs?

 

[Chryx]

Re: Chryx wrote...

Originally posted by Kethoticus

I seriously doubt that you are him. If you are, then you're one hellevan actor.

Well, I like to think I'm one hell of an actor anyway, but no, I'm not him. (since I don't know who "him" is I can't even play the part of being him.)

Aside from that, I can be tracked back on assorted other sites using the Chryx moniker for over a year

 

[Chryx]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for actually backing yourself up.

Originally posted by jefhatfield
wouldn't that be nice if the other 95 percent had macs?

Well, no, because then Apple would have nothing to go 'hey, we're BETTER THAN THEM!' at

Personally I'd really like a Mac on my desktop, but I'm not going to take the plunge until the hardware is suitably beefy (the current towers would maybe have hit the mark if the FSB had been DDR, I'm not going to trade my Athlon for a chip with a slower FSB, it just doesn't make sense from where I'm sitting) so ATM it looks like I'm going to wait for the IBM PPC-64 chip.

 

[Chryx]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for actually backing yourself up.

Originally posted by alex_ant
There are plenty of great trolls on this site. You're lucky you got an "it's nice to see someone who backs himself up" out of your opponent, because rarely does that even happen. Usually you'll get someone who either stops posting once their bull**** is disproven (therefore not conceding) or someone who refuses to admit their wrongness and resorts to "you're an idiot and I refuse to discuss this with you anymore" type statements etc. It takes a big man/woman to admit being wrong, which leads me to conclude that Macrumors is comprised largely of children.

You should go check out comp.sys.amiga.advocacy sometime.

Steve Gionevella ("SG") brings blind zealotry to a new level

"The 604e is the most advanced microprocessor ever used in a personal computer" - SG

This is AFTER we've sent him to the PPC7455, AthlonXP and P4 product pages...

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for actually backing yourself up.

Originally posted by Chryx


Well, no, because then Apple would have nothing to go 'hey, we're BETTER THAN THEM!' at

since i am 96 and remember silicon valley when it was literally apple orchards, there was a time when most people who had personal computers had apple machines

then some sort of super elitist attitude came along and being a business was being like those other guys, microsoft, and later apple's smallness became a point of pride

well, the rest is history and apple will never get near the whole market again

for now, i am happy with my mac and my pc with it's amd processor in it...somehow, i have never been a big fan of intel, so if i buy a pc for my business, it will be another amd machine

 

[Chryx]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for actually backing yourself up.

Originally posted by jefhatfield
since i am 96 and remember silicon valley when it was literally apple orchards, there was a time when most people who had personal computers had apple machines

At that point (well, 1985 or so), they should have had Amiga's instead of Macintoshs

Preemptive multitasking.. mmmm..
It (the lack of it) was a big reason that I didn't previously like Macs all that much, the hardware was cool but the OS was clunky compared to what I was used to...

Right now the OS is cool and the hardware needs a slightly bigger kick than the one it just got

 

[Tooth]

Sorry, i'm still getting over that "i'll take you apart in text like you've never seen before in text" part, which followed up the section about having two processors on a single package, and the two fans being on the heatsink being justification for it...

Dude, step back, and do some research. And if the PPC doesn't have an FSB, then i'm stumped as to how it works.

Anyone with real architectural interest and / or reasons why Apple has made a GOOD move with a single data rate FSB, sharing the bus between 2 CPU's (sure, 650MB/sec is enough) and putting all your eggs in the SMP basket is a good idea, then let me know.

I'd love someone to run a dual 1GHz machine vs a single 1GHz machine on something other than filters in photoshop.

In most tasks, if you get more than 50% increase in performance, i'll go he.

If DDR333 over a 1.3GB/sec bus between 2 CPU's is 'balanced'...

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thank you for actually backing yourself up.

Originally posted by Chryx


At that point (well, 1985 or so), they should have had Amiga's instead of Macintoshs

79 to 83 with the apple II series

amigas really rocked the user world, too

and radio shack actually had this machine, i think the trs-80, which i heard about and saw

in 1985, i saw this user with a macintosh and i didn't know why he refused to call his machine a computer...actually then, they all called it the macintosh and i didn't hear the term "mac" until sometime later

i got reacquainted with the mac in '93 and then everybody in the mac lab were calling them macs

then came imac, ibook, and tibook and those names seem to stick more than just calling them macs...i use the term mac so much that when i think back on the two apple IIs i had, i call them macs since the term is so related to apple inc

 

[mischief]

Civility isn't just about language.

I much prefer to keep my animosity out where you can see it. When folks get backhanded it gets personal.

You are an arrogant little proto-Geek but you've got a lot of nonmac data to bring to the table and caught me in an inaccurate assumption. My impression of the P2 was from observing one being replaced. I have never considered it good policy to go ripping the top off someone else's processor card to find out what's under it so I went with what I could see. Being that I loathe Windows/DOS and have never owned a Wintel machine, there's a lot of guessing and hearsay involved. When I said "Good to see you can back it up" I was also saying "Thank you for correcting me". Being an ass about my phrasing really doesn't help you.

BTW: Taking an oppertunity to make a number of disparaging remarks about my character and intelligence while I'm offline, at home and asleep is not only dishonorable, backhanded and immature but downright lame. Shame on both of you.

Alex: What is your mother****ing problem? You've been all over my ass for a good while now and I'd like to know why. If you have a problem with me just say it. Don't just go toadeying around taking oppertunities to kick me when I'm down. I know when I'm being an idiot cuz Alpha is usually there ahead of anyone else. I don't like his methods but I am willing to see when he's right. Perhaps you should think about the term Troll and consider which of the two of us it may actually apply to based on the content of our posts.

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by mischief
I much prefer to keep my animosity out where you can see it. When folks get backhanded it gets personal.

You are an arrogant little proto-Geek but you've got a lot of nonmac data to bring to the table and caught me in an inaccurate assumption. My impression of the P2 was from observing one being replaced. I have never considered it good policy to go ripping the top off someone else's processor card to find out what's under it so I went with what I could see. Being that I loathe Windows/DOS and have never owned a Wintel machine, there's a lot of guessing and hearsay involved. When I said "Good to see you can back it up" I was also saying "Thank you for correcting me". Being an ass about my phrasing really doesn't help you.

BTW: Taking an oppertunity to make a number of disparaging remarks about my character and intelligence while I'm offline, at home and asleep is not only dishonorable, backhanded and immature but downright lame. Shame on both of you.

Alex: What is your mother****ing problem? You've been all over my ass for a good while now and I'd like to know why. If you have a problem with me just say it. Don't just go toadeying around taking oppertunities to kick me when I'm down. I know when I'm being an idiot cuz Alpha is usually there ahead of anyone else. I don't like his methods but I am willing to see when he's right. Perhaps you should think about the term Troll and consider which of the two of us it may actually apply to based on the content of our posts.

when chryx went after you, i went whoopass on him, and it was like spikey, kela, and john 123 again

i am not good at flamewars like spikey and alphatech

i am sure the new mood of macrumors, with moderators, has made things much more civilized than in 2000 and early 2001

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by mischief
BTW: Taking an oppertunity to make a number of disparaging remarks about my character and intelligence while I'm offline, at home and asleep is not only dishonorable, backhanded and immature but downright lame. Shame on both of you.

SHAME ON ME! I forgot to PM you and ask when the best time would be to make my disparaging remarks.

Alex: What is your mother****ing problem? You've been all over my ass for a good while now and I'd like to know why.

Losing your temper and threatening to "take others apart in ways they've never seen before in text" when you yourself are posting bull**** pertaining to subjects which by your own admission you know nothing about gets old quite fast. "Macs don't have a front side bus!" I am confounded as to why when you said "Shut up and let anyone with a clue talk," you yourself didn't stop talking. "We" might not be on you like this if you weren't behaving like such a miserable child. Maybe you were only having a bad day, and that's understandable, but when you so freely bring your "animosity" out into the open, you should be prepared to receive the same animosity in return instead of whining about how others are conspiring against you behind your back. A little humility and politeness never hurt anybody.

Alex

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i am not good at flamewars like spikey and alphatech

You could always practice... Your mother is fat and ugly. There you go, I just gave you a great opening, have at it!

 

[Chryx]

Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by mischief
You are an arrogant little proto-Geek but you've got a lot of nonmac data to bring to the table and caught me in an inaccurate assumption.

An inaccurate assumption AND your "NOBODY SAY ANYTHING THAT ISN'T BACKED UP" attitude is bound to lead to trouble, have you thought about that?

My impression of the P2 was from observing one being replaced. I have never considered it good policy to go ripping the top off someone else's processor card to find out what's under it so I went with what I could see.

And what you could see was, what, that the cartridge+heatsink was big enough for two fans.. that's hardly conclusive evidence of anything.

Here (google) Pentium 2 (Klamath 233-300Mhz) casing removal

Notice the Sram discretes and the single core.

Being that I loathe Windows/DOS and have never owned a Wintel machine, there's a lot of guessing and hearsay involved.

You might want to cut down on that and make more use of google
There's plenty of information out there, you just have to look for it (it's advisable to source your information from multiple sources, inaccuracies do crop up.)

When I said "Good to see you can back it up" I was also saying "Thank you for correcting me". Being an ass about my phrasing really doesn't help you.

Think.
Your phrasing didn't LOOK like "thankyou for correcting me", it looked like backtracking.

if it wasn't, then I apologise.

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by alex_ant

SHAME ON ME! I forgot to PM you and ask when the best time would be to make my disparaging remarks.
[/b]
Losing your temper and threatening to "take others apart in ways they've never seen before in text" when you yourself are posting bull**** pertaining to subjects which by your own admission you know nothing about gets old quite fast. "Macs don't have a front side bus!" I am confounded as to why when you said "Shut up and let anyone with a clue talk," you yourself didn't stop talking. "We" might not be on you like this if you weren't behaving like such a miserable child. Maybe you were only having a bad day, and that's understandable, but when you so freely bring your "animosity" out into the open, you should be prepared to receive the same animosity in return instead of whining about how others are conspiring against you behind your back. A little humility and politeness never hurt anybody.

Alex [/B]

if you look at the threads from the beginning, chryx was trolling this thread like some other pc users in the past

that is why i trolled him back (defensively)

i don't think you, mischief, or me, even though our language may have seemed inappropriate to some, was never considered an offensive troll attack (since we have all been here longer than chryx)

i believe mischief was looking for some techie facts while chryx was lurking under the bridge ready to blow it up when mischief crossed it...i think it was all about intent

the high tech field, which i am in, is a lot more complex than frontside bus, backside cache, level 2 cache, etc when you have compTIA, mueller, oreilly, and others saying contradicting things...we may complain about the ddr thing but i am sure far more qualified engineers or students than us (at apple inc) thought this out very carefully and i could see them saying/thinking,

"but the armchair engineers will not like this"

 

[mischief]

Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by alex_ant

SHAME ON ME! I forgot to PM you and ask when the best time would be to make my disparaging remarks.
[/b]
Losing your temper and threatening to "take others apart in ways they've never seen before in text" when you yourself are posting bull**** pertaining to subjects which by your own admission you know nothing about gets old quite fast. "Macs don't have a front side bus!" I am confounded as to why when you said "Shut up and let anyone with a clue talk," you yourself didn't stop talking. "We" might not be on you like this if you weren't behaving like such a miserable child. Maybe you were only having a bad day, and that's understandable, but when you so freely bring your "animosity" out into the open, you should be prepared to receive the same animosity in return instead of whining about how others are conspiring against you behind your back. A little humility and politeness never hurt anybody.

Alex [/B]

Okay, I'll cop to that. I WAS actually having a pisser of a morning and I WAS being a bit of an overbearing ass... My bad.

I just get a bit rabid about the backlash after every release.... as if there's been absolutely NO improvement. I see so much whining and so many remarks about how Apple should just give up and be another generic PC manufacturer I go all Tazzy.

Apple is doing the best it can with a limited marketshare and a Chip supplier that seems determined to sit at the bar and let Apple get beaten to death in the back of the room by lame ass companies like Dell and (the company formerly known as Compaq).

Mainly I guess I was lashing ourt because I feel helpless to stop Apple getting pummelled. The really frustrating thing is that we're doing dammage to a company we all love by exposing where they're cutting corners. No other company in the industry gets the kind of close scrutiny we give Apple.

There's a catch 22 here: We all want the G5 and truly exceptional Macs but if we don't buy the present half-assed ones Apple won't have the funds to advance and excell. So for all of you who have not switched yet or are still using an Ancient machine: Please, just buy an overclocked dual-Optical tower. It'll be worlds better than what you have now and get Apple that much closer to having the cash to build the dream machine we all want.

 

[Chryx]

Re: Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by jefhatfield
if you look at the threads from the beginning, chryx was trolling this thread like some other pc users in the past

How exactly is it trolling to say why I think the current PowerMac architecture is sub-optimal?

Or do you classify anything that goes against "Apple are good, Apple are right" to be trolling?

(see, THAT ^^^ was a trolling statement

i believe mischief was looking for some techie facts while chryx was lurking under the bridge ready to blow it up when mischief crossed it...i think it was all about intent

Aren't you overdramatising a juuuust a little?

besides that, if Mischief were looking for techie facts, why wasn't he asking for them instead of spreading disinformation?

the high tech field, which i am in, is a lot more complex than frontside bus, backside cache, level 2 cache, etc

Indeed, you have to consider the relationships between all of the above.

when you have compTIA, mueller, oreilly, and others saying contradicting things...we may complain about the ddr thing but i am sure far more qualified engineers or students than us (at apple inc) thought this out very carefully and i could see them saying/thinking

My thoughts are that Apple couldn't get G4's with DDR bus signaling, if they could I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't use them, and the speedup from DDR not being exactly 100% doesn't detract from the fact that it would be a speedup.

Speedups are good, ya know.

"but the armchair engineers will not like this"
I doubt APPLE engineers liked that, they probably want some lovely DDR lovin' just as much as the rest of us

 

[jelloshotsrule]

interesting point about the if we don't buy now, we won't get better in the future..

which is true to a large extent.

but we can only say that for so long...

 

[Chryx]

Re: Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by mischief
I just get a bit rabid about the backlash after every release.... as if there's been absolutely NO improvement.

There is an improvement, it's just that x86 hardware is still faster overall at the moment.

I was hoping to see a proper whoopass upgrade, rather than an (admittedly pretty big) incremental, hopefully we'll see it at or around MWSF

I see so much whining and so many remarks about how Apple should just give up and be another generic PC manufacturer I go all Tazzy.

I agree, that and the MacOSX on x86 stuff just don't make any sense. it would be the quickest way for apple to kill themselves :/

No other company in the industry gets the kind of close scrutiny we give Apple.
Plenty of scrutiny goes on, it's just that it tends towards component manufacturers rather than box shifters like Dell.

Go to the aceshardware tech forum and you'll find people discussing things, and generally being disparaging towards the Pentium 4's x87 FP hardware

There's a catch 22 here: We all want the G5 and truly exceptional Macs but if we don't buy the present half-assed ones Apple won't have the funds to advance and excell.

I must have being mistaken about that $4B warchest that Apple are sitting on?, you think they don't have the funds for 6 months/1year of R&D?

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by Chryx

"but the armchair engineers will not like this"
I doubt APPLE engineers liked that, they probably want some lovely DDR lovin' just as much as the rest of us

this could have been a cheap quick fix by apple, but i want to wait and see the reviews, benchmarks, and actual input from the users of the new g4 hannibal series towers

i hope the hannibal lechter moniker does not stick but i have a feeling that it already has

oh, alex, my mother is not fat and ugly...i am but i am trying to lose weight

i have been likened to looking like an english bulldog (at 180+) and if i keep losing weight, i will be a french bull (165), and if i reach an ideal weight body mass index of 24, then i will be a trim boston terrier at 150-154 lbs

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by mischief
Okay, I'll cop to that. I WAS actually having a pisser of a morning and I WAS being a bit of an overbearing ass... My bad.

I just get a bit rabid about the backlash after every release.... as if there's been absolutely NO improvement. I see so much whining and so many remarks about how Apple should just give up and be another generic PC manufacturer I go all Tazzy.

Apple is doing the best it can with a limited marketshare and a Chip supplier that seems determined to sit at the bar and let Apple get beaten to death in the back of the room by lame ass companies like Dell and (the company formerly known as Compaq).

Mainly I guess I was lashing ourt because I feel helpless to stop Apple getting pummelled. The really frustrating thing is that we're doing dammage to a company we all love by exposing where they're cutting corners. No other company in the industry gets the kind of close scrutiny we give Apple.

OK, no hard feelings then... Everybody has bad days.

Another way to think of it (maybe a less stressful way) is that instead of Apple being hurt by all this negative reaction to its new product announcements, it is actually helped by the constructive criticism and the push the Mac community gives it to improve. I worry that the Mac faithful will become so sympathetic to Apple's plight that they will gratefully accept whatever they can get. That opens up the door for Apple to exploit its Mac loyalists - "They'll take whatever we give them, so why innovate?" But I'm sure there's an equilibrium somewhere, and I'm pretty sure Apple is close enough to it.

Damn, I was hoping for a good flamewar to come out of this, but no such luck...

Cheers,
Alex

 

[alex_ant]

What the slogan should have been

"The new Power Macintosh G4: It eats the Pentium 4's liver with some Fava beans and a nice Chianti."

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: What the slogan should have been

Originally posted by alex_ant
"The new Power Macintosh G4: It eats the Pentium 4's liver with some Fava beans and a nice Chianti."

or it su*** like a white house intern

 

[mischief]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Civility isn't just about language.

Originally posted by Chryx

No other company in the industry gets the kind of close scrutiny we give Apple.
Plenty of scrutiny goes on, it's just that it tends towards component manufacturers rather than box shifters like Dell.

Go to the aceshardware tech forum and you'll find people discussing things, and generally being disparaging towards the Pentium 4's x87 FP hardware

There's a catch 22 here: We all want the G5 and truly exceptional Macs but if we don't buy the present half-assed ones Apple won't have the funds to advance and excell.

I must have being mistaken about that $4B warchest that Apple are sitting on?, you think they don't have the funds for 6 months/1year of R&D? [/B]

The thing is: Apple does the whole shebang. Even issues that trace back to Moto get attributed to Apple when the whiners start keening, so in essence Apple gets a disproportionate amount of criticism.

$4 Billion dollars isn't that much money for a company the size of Apple. The amount of operating capital needed to startup even a small company is easily in the millions of dollars just in having cash on hand to pay out expenses if Income drops into the red. Apple having $4 Billion in the bank isn't likely to be a warchest... it's insurance against bad times so when sales dip they can keep the lights on and the product flowing in Cupertino's 6 (or so) buildings, Cork's campus, Austin's Campus, Sacramento's Factory, Taiwan's Factory, China's Factory, Mexico's Factory and of course Steve's house.

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Re: What the slogan should have been

Originally posted by jefhatfield


or it su*** like a white house intern

Luckily, those two activities are not mutually exclusive... it can do both.

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: Re: Re: What the slogan should have been

Originally posted by alex_ant

Luckily, those two activities are not mutually exclusive... it can do both.

but those four holes are not big enough...ooh , that was bad

about apple's 4 bil war chest....it was 6 bil in 2001 but i know apple bought an armload of companies...i am asking why that is though

when they almost bit the dust under the helm of ceo gil, they had 6 bil then but had a quarter with a billion dollar loss

perhpas apple will break out of their financial funk

now that their gear is not stuck at 500 mhz forever, apple needs to do some creative, yet legal, accounting