New Profile Delves Into Background of Jony Ive Successor Jeff Williams

[ZeitGeist]

I only have a few small requests (Apple, please read): Return of the "keyboard that works" 2015-style MacBook Pro keyboards

As you might have seen elsewhere, this is already in the works. Nearly a day after Ive announced his departure, news of a keyboard redesign to correct the flaws of “the pursuit of thin” were leaked.

return of the standard USB Port, Ethernet Port, SD card, etc on MacBook Pro

This won’t ever happen - personally, I have no problem with the USB-C ports, as they provide more future-proofing, and adapters (not Apple’s dongles) are cheap and plenty. What I do miss is Ive having gotten rid of MagSafe, which I would love to see a return of - but which is also unlikely to happen.

Furthermore, I would hope the next Mac mini will have socketed SSD drives, since some moron decided to solder the SSD drives (while touting how the RAM is now socketed - eye roll).

and please bundle the monitor stand with the new 32" Monitor that Apple is selling. It makes no sense to buy the monitor if you aren't getting the stand! Thank you.

Absolutely agree - though the monitor comes with a “basic stand”, and what you are talking about is the “premium stand”. Either way, it’s a case of dumb presentation of the product. If you have a $5,000 monitor and are touting the $1,000 stand for it, then you might as well announce it as the $6,000 monitor (and a discount of $1,000 if you opt for the VESA version, or ‘standard’ version. That way, there’d be less snark for the “$1,000 stand” (which is a rehash of the iconic ‘dome’ iMac G4 monitor arm.

What’s wrong with simply buying the stand together with the monitor? This seems more like complaining for the sake of complaining.

You do appear to be on a mission to constantly be an apologist for everything Apple does - it’s a matter of perception. Apple could have simply avoided much of the snark and negative press by selling it as a single product, $6,000 Premium Display, instead of placing undue focus that the arm costs $1,000. The display competes with $40,000 reference displays, and is better and larger than those. The intended target market wouldn’t care if the display is $5,000 or $6,000, and this is simply a presentation fail on Apple’s part. We are bemoaning Apple’s failure to realize that, not the actual prices.

No I’m pretty sure the articles indicate he has been doing his job... and last I checked Apple were still selling devices and a new iPhone every year. Oh and updating iOS and Mac OS. So you bless Apple just stopped functioning for the last 4 years then no sorry I hadn’t noticed, that the boss of design for all hardware and software wasn’t doing his job....

Nice strawman argument, there, or you genuinely are oblivious. No need to further discuss this with you, then. Ciao.

It’s great to see how people’s sentiments have changed. When Scott Forstall left Apple and the flat redesign of iOS has happened, there were a lot of comments praising it.

Now many of the top rated comments are about missing Scott, how the quality of software has deteriorated and are hoping for the changes for the better.

The quality of software HAS deteriorated, and that is not the same thing as design choices like skeuomorphism - Forstall might have been an ass to work with, but under him iOS was stable and worked well - that could be Forstall, or it could have been Steve Jobs making sure of that. We’ll never know, since Forstall won’t be back, and he will never work in the tech field ever again. I may miss certain aspects of him, but I miss the people that he caused to leave even more. Firing him was an unfortunate, but necessary decision of Cook’s.

The same can be said about Jony Ive - a lot of you might disagree, but Ive’s departure is no different. He was basically fired, but the departure is being handled very amicably, for the benefit of public perception. Either way, Apple will be much better off without Jony around.

 

[ZeitGeist]

When iOS 7 came out I was very surprised. I missed the old design. I think they can bring back SOME of those old elements. It’s ok to have buttons/texture. The OS currently is too flat and white in a lot of areas.

They have started doing exactly that, slowly, over the past few iterations. White, empty spaces, have started to shrink, and textures have started to creep back in.

iOS 7 was basically a draconian backlash against skeuomorphism, and a massive display of “Bye Bye Scott Forstall!”

 

[newyorksole]

They have started doing exactly that, slowly, over the past few iterations. White, empty spaces, have started to shrink, and textures have started to creep back in.

iOS 7 was basically a draconian backlash against skeuomorphism, and a massive display of “Bye Bye Scott Forstall!”

Just goes to show how much of an influence he had Lol. They really pulled a “we’ll show you!” move.

Nothing at all wrong with shadows and texture. I do notice it slowly coming back.

Hopefully next year brings a nice redesign. It’s a big year! 2020.

 

[Mactendo]

When iOS 7 came out I was very surprised. I missed the old design

Me too, it was clear to me it changed for the worse.

The quality of software HAS deteriorated

That’s what I and other people have said.

Forstall might have been an ass to work with, but under him iOS was stable and worked well - that could be Forstall, or it could have been Steve Jobs

It was Forstall.

but I miss the people that he caused to leave even more

Which people?

Firing him was an unfortunate, but necessary decision of Cook’s.

It was the biggest mistake, not a necessary decision.

 

[I7guy]

They have started doing exactly that, slowly, over the past few iterations. White, empty spaces, have started to shrink, and textures have started to creep back in.

iOS 7 was basically a draconian backlash against skeuomorphism, and a massive display of “Bye Bye Scott Forstall!”

Interfaces change, just like fashion. Thin lapels, thick lapels, thin ties, thick ties. Things change.

As far as the "draconian backlash against skeuomorphism", it was a necessary step.

 

[ZeitGeist]

Which people?

Bob Mansfield, for one ... Bob was out the door, actually he already left, because he wasn’t able to work with Forstall, and would take any meetings with him, without Cook in the same room.

Once Forstall was gone, Bob came back.

There were others. Tony Fadell (iPod chief) and Jean-Marie Hullot (CTO of Apple’s application division). Tony, as we know, did well after Apple, but both would have been better assets within Apple, than letting them leave.

It was the biggest mistake, not a necessary decision.

Well, that’s debatable ... I would consider Apple’s biggest mistake, bar none, to have been the purchase of Beats, instead of using these funds to purchase NEST, WAZE, and SPOTIFY.

... but that’s opening up another conversational can of worms...

 

[Rogifan]

The quality of software HAS deteriorated, and that is not the same thing as design choices like skeuomorphism - Forstall might have been an ass to work with, but under him iOS was stable and worked well - that could be Forstall, or it could have been Steve Jobs making sure of that. We’ll never know, since Forstall won’t be back, and he will never work in the tech field ever again. I may miss certain aspects of him, but I miss the people that he caused to leave even more. Firing him was an unfortunate, but necessary decision of Cook’s.

There were plenty of iOS software issues before Forstall left. iOS 2.0 was as bad as anything under Federighi. But some treat him with the same rose colored glasses as they do Steve Jobs.

The same can be said about Jony Ive - a lot of you might disagree, but Ive’s departure is no different. He was basically fired, but the departure is being handled very amicably, for the benefit of public perception. Either way, Apple will be much better off without Jony around.

Do you know this or are you just spitballing? Because no one in the Apple commentariat have said or suggested he was fired. Even the ATP guys, who have had many complaints about Apple hardware, aren’t saying they think he was fired. John Gruber, Rene Ritchie, Andy Ihnatko, Matthew Panzerino, Mark Gurman, none of them have suggested Ive was fired. Believe me if that was what really happened it would’ve been all over social media by now. Instead all we have is one WSJ story that hasn’t been corroborated by anyone.
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Jony Ive probably had ultimate say in the designs.

When you say designs what do you mean?

 

[ZeitGeist]

As far as the "draconian backlash against skeuomorphism", it was a necessary step.

... just as firing Jony Ive is, now.

At the time, there was too much skeuomorphism, with more threatened (heck, remember the fake leather details?), and thus the redesign of iOS 7 was meant to show a break from that.

Currently, the obsessive push of form OVER function has been causing consistent financial damage to Apple, and needed to be stopped. Read between the lines of what happened right after Jony Ive made his announcement...

 

[ZeitGeist]

There were plenty of iOS software issues before Forstall left. iOS 2.0 was as bad as anything under Federighi.

C’mon man, don’t reach back to basically beta software (iOS 1 through 3) to build a strawman... I’m talking about iOS 4, 5, and 6.

iOS 6 would retain the state of an app while fast-app switching to another. When you came back, you were at the exact same state and condition as when you left. iOS hasn’t been able to do that since iOS 7. Third-Party app developers had to compensate for this shortcoming within their own code, instead of state-retention being part of iOS (this is mostly an issue with the non-existent memory management of the post-iOS 7 iOS - memory runs low, apps quit or **** down, instead of saving their state).

Do you know this or are you just spitballing? Because no one in the Apple commentariat have said or suggested he was fired. Even the ATP guys, who have had many complaints about Apple hardware, aren’t saying they think he was fired. John Gruber, Rene Ritchie, Andy Ihnatko, Matthew Panzerino, Mark Gurman, none of them have suggested Ive was fired. Believe me if that was what really happened it would’ve been all over social media by now. Instead all we have is one WSJ story that hasn’t been corroborated by anyone.

Then don’t call it ‘fired’ (obviously, Jony wasn’t walked out by security, carrying his things in a filing box), call it “pushed out”, or call it “voluntary separation” - but simply look at what is happening.

- Jony Ive announces that he is leaving.
- Tim Cook and Jony write accolades about each other, and how they look forward to working with each other for years to come.
- Apple will be the No.1 client for Jony’s new design firm, ie Apple will continue to pay Jony handsomely forever.
- Jony takes Marc Newsom with him (you can bet others will leave with Jony as well)
- Jony Ive had nothing to do with the new Mac Pro, as Cook made a point of touting the importance of the Pro Workflow Group - and the new Mac Pro is as much 180 degrees different to ‘thin’, as iOS 7 was to iOS 6’s skeuomorphism.

Compare this to the way Scott Forstall was leaving, with Tim Cook announcing that he will retain Scott Forstall as consultant, because of Scott’s important contributions.

It’s the same M.O. of “we will keep you as a consultant and keep paying you forever”, namely to enforce NDAs and non-competes.
The only difference is that the break with Jony is more amicable, professional and planned, mostly to prevent panic from clueless stock analysts (and so far it’s been well handled) - Jony was basically on the way out for the past 2 years. This just made the break official.

 

[Yr Blues]

Has the Jobs' era creative department been completely purged from Apple yet?

 

[nexusrule]

Wait, this bloke is replacing Jony? He’s got less charisma than a cardboard cutout version of himself.

I wouldn’t say Jony had “charisma”. He has a British accent and uses a lot of fluff to describe basic things.

I never heard him speak and said “wow that guy is charismatic”.

He’s pretty mundane. Rarely smiles.

What charisma has to do with good design? Or be a good professional in general? Hint: nothing.

 

[scaramoosh]

It's just not the same :'( Apple is dead.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Engineering companies are almost always started by engineers/geeks. Over time the founders take the money and retire, move on, or even pass away. Sadly, their replacements are almost NEVER engineers/geeks who feel challenged by creating new paradigms, but instead are just business people.
Many times these business people are seen as "stockholder friendly" as they have saved some other company. So they don't move up from inside the company, they "move in" from the outside. THAT seldom ends well. Engineers/Geeks think about innovation and are fueled to passionate heights by doing what nobody else has done before. Business people think about layoffs, product tweaks, and and are fueled to "staying the course" and maximizing profit. Inevitably the lack of vision by the new "leaders" manifests as riding the products designed by those who came before them, right into the ground. And when they eventually destroy the company....so what? They are rich.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Wait, this bloke is replacing Jony? He’s got less charisma than a cardboard cutout version of himself.

Jony Ive circa late 90's with intro of the TAM ... talk about NO charisma lol.
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We keep forgetting the part where Apple will be a key client for Jony’s new company ‘Lovefrom’. This means, for next 5 years at least, we will still be seeing the work of Jony come out of Apple. The question is, will this be an ongoing relationship? Because to me, it seems like Jony also wants to move beyond the shadow of Apple.

Funny i didn't see a quote with Ive stating that at all ... only others or Cook. Ever noticed Ive said NOTHING about Cook and only design team colleagues at any reference and even as friends? Cook - not 1 iota of spittle mentioned from Ive.

 

[Rogifan]

C’mon man, don’t reach back to basically beta software (iOS 1 through 3) to build a strawman... I’m talking about iOS 4, 5, and 6.

iOS 6 would retain the state of an app while fast-app switching to another. When you came back, you were at the exact same state and condition as when you left. iOS hasn’t been able to do that since iOS 7. Third-Party app developers had to compensate for this shortcoming within their own code, instead of state-retention being part of iOS (this is mostly an issue with the non-existent memory management of the post-iOS 7 iOS - memory runs low, apps quit or **** down, instead of saving their state).


Then don’t call it ‘fired’ (obviously, Jony wasn’t walked out by security, carrying his things in a filing box), call it “pushed out”, or call it “voluntary separation” - but simply look at what is happening.

- Jony Ive announces that he is leaving.
- Tim Cook and Jony write accolades about each other, and how they look forward to working with each other for years to come.
- Apple will be the No.1 client for Jony’s new design firm, ie Apple will continue to pay Jony handsomely forever.
- Jony takes Marc Newsom with him (you can bet others will leave with Jony as well)
- Jony Ive had nothing to do with the new Mac Pro, as Cook made a point of touting the importance of the Pro Workflow Group - and the new Mac Pro is as much 180 degrees different to ‘thin’, as iOS 7 was to iOS 6’s skeuomorphism.

Compare this to the way Scott Forstall was leaving, with Tim Cook announcing that he will retain Scott Forstall as consultant, because of Scott’s important contributions.

It’s the same M.O. of “we will keep you as a consultant and keep paying you forever”, namely to enforce NDAs and non-competes.
The only difference is that the break with Jony is more amicable, professional and planned, mostly to prevent panic from clueless stock analysts (and so far it’s been well handled) - Jony was basically on the way out for the past 2 years. This just made the break official.

OK so basically you have no factual evidence on any of this, just your opinion. And FYI, the guy who runs software for Apple is Craig Federighi, not Jony Ive. Having the human interface team report to you is not equivalent to running software engineering. Watch any WWDC keynote since Craig has taken over and it’s obvious the developers in the room love him.

If Jony had no involvement with the Mac Pro why was he in the video published on Apple’s website?

https://www.apple.com/105/media/us/.../mac-pro-product-tpl-cc-us-2019_1280x720h.mp4

Why was he the one showing it off to Tim Cook after the keynote?

 

[Rogifan]

... just as firing Jony Ive is, now.

At the time, there was too much skeuomorphism, with more threatened (heck, remember the fake leather details?), and thus the redesign of iOS 7 was meant to show a break from that.

Currently, the obsessive push of form OVER function has been causing consistent financial damage to Apple, and needed to be stopped. Read between the lines of what happened right after Jony Ive made his announcement...

What had happened since the Ive announcement was made? Apple hasn’t announced anything. And any products coming out this fall will have been in the works for quite some time.

 

[citysnaps]

... and why are customers holding onto their devices longer, I wonder...?

Could it be that Apple doesn’t have any premium products that appeals to customers, which normally would have upgraded to a shiny new model with desirable features?

The far higher prices for premium iOS devices (ie the X models) have often been cited, but iPhone customers have historically bucked the trend, and paid for a premium product - as long as it provided desired features and didn’t alienate them.

My particular case of rejecting the lack of the Home Button isn’t isolated, it seems. I had an iPhone XR for 2 weeks before I took it back to my carrier, returned it, and bought an iPhone 8 instead. I could have remained with my iPhone 7, seeing as how there was no difference in functionality between the 7 and 8, mind you.

The rep at the carrier asked me about the reason for the return, and before I could answer, he volunteered “it’s the Home Button, isn’t it?”, and in the course of the conversation I found out that this carrier saw over 30% in returns for that same reason from people that previously upgraded. (Generally iPhones have less than a 5% return rate, by the way)

This was mirrored by 90% of my clients (I’m a tech/Apple/Mac consultant), who all would not upgrade to X models for the same reason (those whose iPhones were damaged, or too old, upgraded to iPhone 8 models).

Now, look at the earlier analysis of the Samsung penalty Apple just paid, which breaks down to 25-35 million of iPhone X models that Apple didn’t sell, and also knows they would no longer sell in this sales cycle.

To get back to your/my point, the indication is quite clearly there that Apple has alienated a significant portion of their customer abuse, notably those that would consistently upgrade to their premium product - which was significant enough that Apple would no longer reveal their unit sales, seeing as how iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 sales carried the iPhone sales. The numbers are all out there if you are willing to look for them.

As for China sales, and to a lesser degree other countries like India (which also suffered a reduction in sales - but is less interesting since they are not as ‘sexy’ as China), why, what ‘variety of reasons outside Apple’s control’ do you believe are responsible for reduction in sales there?

Regarding Chinese sales... It's political due to the trade/tariff war with the US where the Chinese government is now strongly encouraging its citizens to buy Chinese. That and other issues has resulted in an approx reduction of 30% of Chinese sales.

With respect to people in general not upgrading due to market saturation, that's not just an Apple problem. Look at Samsung and others. For the most part, people are holding onto their phones longer because they meet their needs; whether it's Apple or Samsung. I'm not looking to upgrade because my X does everything I need a phone to do. I'm (and I suspect many others) not looking for new features.

It's not about lack of a Home Button. That's just silly.

 

[Mactendo]

Bob Mansfield, for one ... Bob was out the door, actually he already left, because he wasn’t able to work with Forstall, and would take any meetings with him, without Cook in the same room.

Once Forstall was gone, Bob came back.

There were others. Tony Fadell (iPod chief) and Jean-Marie Hullot (CTO of Apple’s application division). Tony, as we know, did well after Apple, but both would have been better assets within Apple, than letting them leave.

Well, that’s debatable ... I would consider Apple’s biggest mistake, bar none, to have been the purchase of Beats, instead of using these funds to purchase NEST, WAZE, and SPOTIFY.

Yes, Beats purchase wasn’t the smart decision but with Apple’s money it hadn’t a huge impact on Apple unlike the loss of one of the key persons, Scott Forstall, who was with Steve Jobs since NeXT, and who was the creator of the original MacOS X UI and the creator of the truly revolutionary iPhone which is now the key product for Apple.

Sure it would be better if those guys mentioned above did stay at Apple, but still... iPod created by Tony Fadell was the great product but sadly its days are gone. And Nest would never become something huge like what iPhone is today. (Although it’s a nice product which could fit into Apple’s product line).

Scott wasn’t an easy person but Steve wasn’t also. But both had vision and delivered great ideas and products. Somehow they worked together for 20 years but with Cook as CEO he left Apple after a single year.

Although after reading the reports about Ive departure I’m not sure these guys would be able to do something new and great at Apple under Cook’s management if they did stay there. It’s said he’s not interested in product development. Plus he can’t manage even those guys who stayed. They’re keep leaving.

It seems he has no clear vision behind “make more money selling iPhone”. Amazon, which wasn’t a hardware company, in a few years released more new and interesting products than Apple. Products which Apple should’ve been releasing. That’s a shame.

Now thinking about it I think Jeff Bezos could be a great Apple CEO... Plus Scott Forstall... Sadly it’s just a dream.

 

[Mactendo]

why was he the one showing it off to Tim Cook after the keynote?

Jony Ive: Look. I surpassed myself. This is the ugliest product I ever designed.

No offense but 15 years old PowerMac G5 looks ways better than this.

 

[Cosmosent]

I check with Vegas ...

They set his Odds "of becoming the next CEO of Apple" @ 2000:1, same as the Hornets and Cavs winning next year's NBA Finals

Clearly just a Propaganda piece by Apple's PR machine !

 

[Abazigal]

You do appear to be on a mission to constantly be an apologist for everything Apple does - it’s a matter of perception. Apple could have simply avoided much of the snark and negative press by selling it as a single product, $6,000 Premium Display, instead of placing undue focus that the arm costs $1,000. The display competes with $40,000 reference displays, and is better and larger than those. The intended target market wouldn’t care if the display is $5,000 or $6,000, and this is simply a presentation fail on Apple’s part. We are bemoaning Apple’s failure to realize that, not the actual prices.

Point is - it makes zero difference in the end, and by having the option to decouple the stand from the display, you make it cheaper for customers who might decide to get one without the stand.

Apple is helping to streamline the purchase decision for the end user. I can understand the media resorting to taking cheap potshots at the $1k stand for the sake of generating outrage and clickbait. It’s literally their entire business model. They cannot not do this any more than Facebook is incentivised to play fast and loose with your privacy.

There’s no need for us to stoop to that same level. We pretty much agree that at $6k, the display represents excellent value for the target market. Let’s work on countering the fixation the media has on the $1k stand by conditioning the detractors to see the whole (display) as worth more than the sum of its parts.

I guess it was too much to hope that the posters here could be better. And that is why I see myself doing what I do for as long as I can.

 

[DevNull0]

All right, so the $6k total price is reasonable. How is dividing it into $5k for the monitor and $1k for the stand streamlining the purchase decision. If anything it makes things more confusing. If $6k is reasonable, $5k is excellent for the monitor itself, but then a $1k stand is still and $1k stand.

At the end of the day, the bottom line is Apple is selling a monitor stand for $1,000 and deserves to be mocked mercilessly by the media for that. It doesn't matter how great a deal the monitor that connects to the stand is, that is still a $1,000 stand.

 

[rp2011]

OK so basically you have no factual evidence on any of this, just your opinion. And FYI, the guy who runs software for Apple is Craig Federighi, not Jony Ive. Having the human interface team report to you is not equivalent to running software engineering. Watch any WWDC keynote since Craig has taken over and it’s obvious the developers in the room love him.

If Jony had no involvement with the Mac Pro why was he in the video published on Apple’s website?

https://www.apple.com/105/media/us/.../mac-pro-product-tpl-cc-us-2019_1280x720h.mp4

Why was he the one showing it off to Tim Cook after the keynote?

 

[shaunp]

I listened to that episode and one of the guests Andy Ihnatko said it. He also said the WSJ report doesn’t jive with what he knows about the design team and Ive’s relationship with the rest of the executive team. He also made a good point about not really seeing any accounts from former employees corroborating anything. If the WSJ was blowing the lid of of what’s really going on in the company you’d think we’d be seeing Medium posts or Twitter threads from former employees feeling like they were now able to speak out. Where are they?

Check out the 13 minute mark here:

https://www.twit.tv/shows/macbreak-weekly/episodes/668?autostart=false

Most of the people having opinions (like the ATP guys) are just spitballing. They don’t have contacts inside the company or if they do they’re software engineers not in the know.
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What is your source for this?
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What is your source for this? It sounds a lot more like personal opinion than fact.

Where's your source for thinking this isn't true?

 

[Th3odor3]

I want a dream job at Apple. Hire me!