NEW Sony a7R Mirrorless

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by LuckyDuck69, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. Evil Spoonman macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Location:
    California
    #2
    I am a huge fan. It is great to see Sony make this move. I like the looks, and I like the technology. Body is really good.

    Unfortunately, to me anyways, it isn't a compelling system yet. There are too few lenses, and they are slow and large. I may consider replacing my current gear with Sony FE gear in 2015/2016 when the lens library is more extensive and the bodies have another generation or two on them.

    I would be more optimistic, but Sony was glacial to expand its E-Mount library as well. So history shows that this could be a problem. Maybe I'm wrong and they will have tons of lenses in the next year. Would be awesome!

    Definitely will be reading all the camera reviews and lens reviews for this system as they are released!
     
  2. acearchie macrumors 68040

    acearchie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    #3
    Maybe I'm the odd one out but the size thing doesn't make a huge difference to me.

    A can't really fit the A7r in my pocket just like my 6D so it would require an extra bag or to be hung round my strap.

    Apart from being in a smaller body I don't see what the advantage is. People are saying wow I can put my Canon lenses on it. Then it becomes the same size as the 6D anyway!

    I thought most people had given up on the MP race. D800 files are huge and I don't expect this to be any different. All the shots I take end up online, or a couple of prints. I am not making billboards or the like which require the giant MP sensors.

    Whilst it does look like it could be a very interesting camera it's far from being 'the one' in my eyes.
     
  3. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #4
    I am sure the Sony offerings will appeal to some photographers and that is great. Hopefully the cameras with the associated lenses does exactly what they want.

    For me, I ran with a different system that meets my needs and again, hope Sony fans are as happy with these offerings as I am with my camera and lenses.

    To me, the biggest two features a modern digital camera could have relates to high ISO with minimal noise/issues and great lenses. The rest is simply a matter of forethought and management of the tools.

    ------
    Fuji X-E1, 18-55mm, 55-200mm, 35 1.4
     
  4. kingalexthe1st macrumors 6502

    kingalexthe1st

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    #5
    I'm a massive fan as well, but will wait to see it in person before passing judgement. The initial reviews, although few and far between, shout nothing but praise. But acearchie and evil spoonman touch on points that many, inlcuding myself, are thinking of as well. Might just wait it out a little longer to see how the lens lineup evolves, and if they get any smaller.

    I'm still going to be keeping my ear to the ground and watching it very closely.

    Alex
     
  5. Parkin Pig macrumors 6502a

    Parkin Pig

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    Oct 23, 2009
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    Yorkshire-by-Gum
    #6
    It's good to see any 'milestone' when it comes to camera development, and fair play to Sony for cramming a full-frame sensor into such a relatively small body. If nothing else, it should open the floodgates to new developments amongst other manufacturers.

    As acearchie says though, to really make use of the sensor you'll have to strap on a substantial piece of glass, which negates the camera's ease of portability. An obvious advantage is that you don't have to worry about the wear and tear of a mirror actuator.

    Sony do seem a bit obsessed with megapixels, and I for one would prefer to see a full-frame sensor with lower resolution and higher sensitivity.

    I suppose the question is: where does this leave the new OM-D E-M1?
    Size and price-wise the 2 cameras are very similar. I know there are a good selection of M43 lenses, but on paper the Sony would appear to have a lot more potential.
     
  6. acearchie macrumors 68040

    acearchie

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    Jan 15, 2006
    #7
    Which milestone do you see this camera breaking?

    I'm surprised everyone has got so excited about it. To me it's literally an A99 without a mirror.

    Maybe I'm missing something.
     
  7. Parkin Pig macrumors 6502a

    Parkin Pig

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    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Yorkshire-by-Gum
    #8
    The 'milestone' (and I did use inverted commas both times) is simply the first FF in a compact mirrorless body (unless it's been done before - I could be wrong). Simple as that.
     
  8. El Cabong macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    #9
    I like that Sony is moving in this direction. Ideally, it will force Canikon to innovate. I won't be ditching my D800 or my m4/3 gear anytime soon, but if Sony actually puts together a good selection of lenses for this system, I could see myself converting in the future.

    +1

    Also, I think that the a7 (the 24mp one) is the first full frame camera to be offered at less than $2k at launch.
     
  9. Attonine macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 15, 2006
    Location:
    Kent. UK
    #10
    Depending on how you want to classify things, Leica achieved this in 2009 with the M9.

    I have only quickly viewed a few photos of this new Sony thing, and I think the M9 is smaller.
     
  10. acearchie macrumors 68040

    acearchie

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    Jan 15, 2006
    #11
    Maybe I have gotten completely the wrong end of the stick but news outlets seem to be deeming it the first full frame mirrorless camera but the Leica M9, M Monochrome, and M come to mind as well as the Sony RX1.

    Maybe I am still missing something!

    I think that as the M9 lacks autofocus it can afford to have a smaller body. The lenses do also seem much smaller which still makes the Leica more attractive for this sort of the camera but the price is still a bit turn off.

    If Sony is going for compact size compared to a DSLR then I think there needs to be some sort of lens revolution with pancake lenses offered at popular focal lengths. Without this to me it seems to be just as cumbersome, but maybe I am just being bitter.
     
  11. acearchie macrumors 68040

    acearchie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    #13
    Quite a confusing image.

    Here's one I found:

    [​IMG]

    It's not a case of the body for me but more the lenses. I think I don't like the shape of the body as well. Leica is such a great classic design but the sony just feels like it has lots of lumps and bumps!
     
  12. rchip macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    #14
    For me this camera is ideal for my 'upgrade path', as people say.

    I have a Sony Nex 5n, and at the moment it's brilliant for my ability as a photographer. The only camera I would upgrade to in the future would be full frame because I don't need any additional/faster features in an APSC body for my needs.

    Why I think this camera is significant is, normal people can afford it and it doesn't look like a professional/serious camera.

    Whilst I know at the moment the price is similar to a Canon 6d and Nikon d600 (which look brilliant) they look more serious and so, if I owned one, I'd be less likely to take it out.

    Another point is, these will likely get cheaper. I know you can say that for all cameras, but it's likely once this system is a bit more established prices will fall.

    Why this is good for me is - I'm sure in about 2 years when I'll probably be looking to upgrade, there's going to be a small(isn), full frame, interchangeable lens camera for about £1000 that can replace my 5n.

    At the moment, if I bought a 6d or d600 - it would need to be in addition to my Nex 5n for the the times I don't want to take a big camera out.

    A Leica, is obviously cool but not at all realistic price wise for me. And the Rx1, whilst looking great, I wouldn't want to pay all that money for a fixed lens camera.

    So I guess, for the more casual enthusiast, this camera could be great!

    I do think there is a big downside with Sony though! The lenses on the Nex are expensive for what you get in terms of quality it seems compared to other brands.

    Perhaps Fuji will bring out something similar - then the competition will heat up and the cameras will get better and cheaper!
     
  13. rchip macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    #15
    For me this camera is ideal for my 'upgrade path', as people say.

    I have a Sony Nex 5n, and at the moment it's brilliant for my ability as a photographer. The only camera I would upgrade to in the future would be full frame because I don't need any additional/faster features in an APSC body for my needs.

    Why I think this camera is significant is, normal people can afford it and it doesn't look like a professional/serious camera.

    Whilst I know at the moment the price is similar to a Canon 6d and Nikon d600 (which look brilliant) they look more serious and so, if I owned one, I'd be less likely to take it out.

    Another point is, these will likely get cheaper. I know you can say that for all cameras, but it's likely once this system is a bit more established prices will fall.

    Why this is good for me is - I'm sure in about 2 years when I'll probably be looking to upgrade, there's going to be a small(isn), full frame, interchangeable lens camera for about £1000 that can replace my 5n.

    At the moment, if I bought a 6d or d600 - it would need to be in addition to my Nex 5n for the the times I don't want to take a big camera out.

    A Leica, is obviously cool but not at all realistic price wise for me. And the Rx1, whilst looking great, I wouldn't want to pay all that money for a fixed lens camera.

    So I guess, for the more casual enthusiast, this camera could be great!

    I do think there is a big downside with Sony though! The lenses on the Nex are expensive for what you get in terms of quality it seems compared to other brands.

    Perhaps Fuji will bring out something similar - then the competition will heat up and the cameras will get better and cheaper!
     
  14. glenthompson macrumors 68000

    glenthompson

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    Apr 27, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    #16
    Since I don't have a compelling reason for a full frame sensor, my Nex-7 will be fine for my needs. This pretty much looks like a Nex with full frame sensor.
     
  15. Prodo123 macrumors 68020

    Prodo123

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    #17
    It's been done 4 years before with the Leica M9, which is still smaller than this with glass attached.
    Not to mention it's technically not the first time Sony has crammed a FF sensor into a compact: RX1.
     
  16. Razeus macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #18
    I pre-ordered the A7+35mm 2.8.

    I love the clarity and IQ of the D800+85mm 1.8G though. I'm debating weather if I should sell it.
     
  17. El Cabong macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    #19
    Maybe the it should be amended to "the first FF in a compact mirrorless [interchangeable lens] body [with autofocus/with an initial price of less than $5k]."
     
  18. Prodo123 macrumors 68020

    Prodo123

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    #20
    Rangefinder focusing is faster than contrast detection autofocus in most cases, and the M9 costs $4800 new on B&H at the moment.
    The new Sony mirrorless does not outdo nor revolutionize mirrorless cameras. Sony's just making it complicated for themselves by introducing the need for yet another lens lineup for their full frame mirrorless cameras.
     
  19. El Cabong macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    #21
    I said *initial* price. The M9 was around $7000 when it was first available ~4 years ago, and $4800 still isn't cheaper than either of the Sony cameras. If you're suggesting that people should buy Leica instead of the A7/A7R because of faster focusing... well.

    The new Sony cameras finally put a full frame sensor into a compact body at an affordable price, which is something enthusiasts have been wanting for quite some time. It's not complicated.
     
  20. paolo- macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    #22
    Cool camera. The technology might not be so useful right now but I can see many reasons why the market would shift towards mirrorless. SLR only has a few advantages left too it right now.

    Auto-focus. A lot of research is going into on sensor auto focus like the top of the line m4/3 and canon 70d. Eventually, I think mirrorless will have the upper hand. The autofocus is on the sensor plane so it should be more accurate then going through the mirror. Next, there can be some calculations done for autofocus based on what's the sensor seeing. For example, right now, the a7 can focus on the closest pupil (pretty amazing if it works well). I could imagine a camera being able to see how many faces there are in a frame and choose an aperture to get a group of people into critical focus in an auto mode.

    Viewfinder. Some people will always hate looking through an LCD viewfinder, there's not a lot you can do about that. It'll be a while before ISO performance becomes good enough to be able to frame astrophotography shots through the sensor. However, for those that don't mind, there's a lot of possible advantages. The most obvious is that in most situations, you can see the exact image as you would capture it. Then you can get all kinds of useful assistance; a histogram, no more need to probe around with your spot meter to gage the exposure; focus assists like peaking and magnification when you focus.

    Lenses. Young systems will always be more limited and expensive, only time can fix that. In the mean time you can use all kinds of cool lenses that can be converted to e-mount.

    I'm curious to see what the future has in store for those kinds of cameras.
     
  21. steveash macrumors 6502

    steveash

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    #23
    The A7 spec looks like a hell of a camera especially along with some A-mount Zeiss lenses (the 135mm f1.8 is amazing) but I will need to try one before I'm totally convinced. I find mirrorless cameras difficult to handle. My hands aren't small and the buttons and dials are. So far I always prefer to have a good chunky camera that I can hold steady and operate without looking.

    I feel the next step is to keep the tiny body but add a good chunky grip and controls. It might look a bit strange but cameras are about function not form.
     
  22. glenthompson macrumors 68000

    glenthompson

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    Apr 27, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    #24
    I have large hands but short chunky fingers. I find the smaller cameras easier to handle as long as the controls are logically placed. I'm getting to the point where I can hold my Nex-7 with my right hand and reach all the rear controls with my thumb. Takes some practice to learn where the controls are by feel only. Someone with long fingers might find the Nex uncomfortable.

    The APS-C size cameras seem to fit my hands better. I've used a Canon that also felt good. A colleague's FF Nikon was a bit large for me. It all boils down to what feels right for you.
     
  23. Razeus macrumors 601

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    Jul 11, 2008
    #25
    I'm dumping my D800 as soon as soon gets a proper portrait lens. I loved the time I had with it though and it gave me EXCELLENT IQ, and I'm not that good of a photographer. But for what I do (outdoor portraits, street, family snaps), lighter is the way to go.

    I'm seriously looking at the Fuji X-E2+23mm 1.4+56mm 1.2 however. Full-frame isn't all that, especially when I get comparable IQ in a lighter, smaller package.
     

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